Tell Us What You Want - The GPO-JABB-CoMB and ARIA Wish List

[Garritan]

As we work at programming our libraries for the ARIA player, and here's your chance to let us know what you would like to see. We'll have some more capabilities and features. We may even add some more samples to some of the libraries.

I want to bring you as much as possible and your input is valuable. This is not a thread to flame or digress about any current shortcomings; rather its about bettering the libraries for the future and letting us know what you want. Specific suggestions would help most.

So let us know what you would like to see and we'll consider it and see what we can do for future editions of the libraries.

Thanks in advance,

Gary Garritan

[schneb]

I'll start...

Some of us are not professional musicians and don't have a lot of money to throw around on our beloved music hobby. We need scaled-down versions of instruments that will allow us to play, but not put us into extreme debt. This was the beauty of GPO. If a pro needed a more robust version, it was available. Even GPO took a person's hardware limitations into consideration. For example, Steinway Lite vs the full version for those with limited RAM.

I would like to see (soon) a Choir package that just contains the basic Aaahs, Ooohs, Mmmmms, in Boys, Mens, Womens, solo male, solo female and Full Choir. That would be great. The big, bad "we can sing anything" package can come later with full fanfare.

I would also like to see in the near future an International instruments package. How often I would have liked a Uilleann Pipe or Didgeridoo for those special pieces. Creating a Middle Eastern soundtrack without the special reed instruments can be pretty challenging.

As for the JABB, because I do not have an extensive keyboard, I could not access hardly any of the control features on the guitar. It would be great if the ARIA player allowed a custom patch panel that will allow control elements to be moved where ever we deem them best utilized. Remember, I am talking from a hobbyists point of view, and there are a LOT of us.

Does ARIA come with a Convolution Reverb like on NI Kontakt 2? I hope so, that would be great. However, unlike NI, I would like to be able to have global control over the settings. If you are using, say, 20 instruments, changing reverb settings could be a bit of a pain.

Schneb

[karvasika]

Oh cool!!!

I've probably written most of these wishes, but here they are in one post:
-JABB percussions
.rimshot for the brush kit
.more control over the drum sounds, especially in the drum kits
.possibility to mix dry, room (and overhead if possible) in the drumkits

-ARIA (and GPOA)
.possibility to easily build ensembles that read one midi data, but every player varies it a bit (both note velocity, start/stop time and CC data)
.possibility to set ensembles the way they do in Wallander at the moment so that for example a 4-note-chord played on a midi controller will be split properly to a string quartet -> basically easy ways to play small or large ensembles in a live-situation so that there won't be any unnecessary doublings etc.
.possibility to route audio to ARIA plugin so that you can position audio recordings to the same space with Garritan instruments and get a unified acoustic enviroment for the rest of the mix (maybe part of the Real Spaces, if it's coming)
.a good string quartet!

More to come, I'll just edit this post if I think of something more. All the best there, keep on the awesome pioneer work!

[Michael_uk]

Hello Gary,

You have so much on the go already and you are looking for MORE ~|

Anyway, since you ask I would absolutely love a sampled Fortepiano. The Mozart Museum at Salzburg Austria has a beauty .. Mozart's own Fortepiano :heart: (You can hear a recording of it here. (http://www.michaelsroom.co.uk/Mozart%20Piano%20Concerto.mp3)) Now .. if that were to be sampled .....

I doubt this will happen so any good Fortepiano will do ;)

[schneb]

You can hear a recording of this being played here. (http://northernsounds.com/forum/www.michaelsroom.co.uk/Mozart%20Piano%20Concerto.mp3)
If the link does not work, try here... http://www.michaelsroom.co.uk/Mozart%20Piano%20Concerto.mp3

[Michael_uk]

If the link does not work, try here... http://www.michaelsroom.co.uk/Mozart%20Piano%20Concerto.mp3
Thanks Schneb, I was fixing it as you posted .. it should work now.

[qccowboy]

I know I sound like a broken record, but....

continued ease of integration with notation programmes like Finale.

What I appreciate the most about GPO, is that I can simply work on my scores and Finale + HP + GPO (and the other Garritan libraries) will play them back in a more than satisfactory way with a minimum of fuss and muss.

Keep this ease of use, and the good integration, and you will not lose the hundreds (if not thousands) of Finale users who have grown to love GPO and its sister libraries.

This means keeping in touch with Robert P. and the developers at MakeMusic Inc.

[trimpe]

What I appreciate the most about GPO, is that I can simply work on my scores and Finale + HP + GPO (and the other Garritan libraries) will play them back in a more than satisfactory way with a minimum of fuss and muss.
I realize this pretty much is nothing more than a "me too" post, but this. Only recently have I gotten good with the Garritan libraries and Finale, but the results have been fantastic. It's easier to be creative when the sounds coming from Finale are as authentic as they are with GPO, JABB, and CAMB.

I realize that given how connected you have been with the folks at MakeMusic that this is probably already a given, but it is honestly the only thing I would be concerned about. I'm sure the Aria engine is going to do great things for many people who use the libraries in a variety of ways, but so long as I know that Finale integration is for the most part unchanged, then I'm thrilled.

...and now I'm back to work! Music doesn't write itself, you know!

[klassical]

GPO - I would be very happy if it thoroughly covered the BASICS of a standard symphony, so that people could make 'mock-ups' of almost any standard repertory classical (in the general sense) piece. Mozart, Rimsky-Korsakov, Wagner, Debussy, Hanson, Tschaikovsky, Stravinsky, Copland, Schoenberg, Gershwin, etc.

* Extended ranges
* Control over vibrato
* Control over portamento
* Good legato
* Crisp/fast staccatos (loud & soft)
* Sustains (no fade in, good loops)
* String harmonics, pizz, tremolo, col legno, sul pont, down bow/up bow, marcato, spicatto/ricochet, mute (for both solo & ensemble)
* Good spacial placement & reverb
* The ability to tweak things to our own tastes

The head of some company that makes drill bits once gave a speech to his employees and told them that they don't sell drill bits, they sell holes. What you need to sell us is not a collection of features, but the ability to make high quality MIDI 'mock-ups' that we can be proud of.

I like a good bowed vibraphone as much as the next guy, but I'd much rather you really nailed the basics.

[Haydn]

I think Gary is looking more for input on things like control, ease of use, interfacing with different programs, etc. How would you like to see things in the GPO ARIA player versus the original Kontakt Player and Kontakt Player 2. GPO, JABB and CoMB will have a totally different look so maybe we can get ideas on screen layouts for controls, menus, etc.

Many of the items mentioned like more strings articulations will be in GPOA or the upcoming GOS 2 strings.

Jim

[germancomponist]

About Brass: I would like another way to control this instruments... .
Control the instrument-volume and sound via velocity and use the mod-wheel for vibrato, ..... as it is controlled on the most Roland-Instruments... . ;)

Gunther

[Skysaw]

Strings, strings, strings! Many more articulations. Natural sounding legato. Auto-section sizing for divisi. The control of the Gofriller for an entire string orchestra.

[rwayland]

My first wish is for really good sound quality, of which Gary now produces in abundance.


Of equal importance: simplicity of use. These libraries are tools for me to use in my compositions. I don't want to use my time learning technology. I had plenty of that years ago, started with computer logic circuits and schematics back in the sixties. Now my interest is not in the technology, but in the use of the products. Just like automobiles -- many years ago, I enjoyed being able to do all the routine maintenance of most repairs on my own vehicles. Now, I just want to drive it, and leave the technology to my mechanic.

Pipe organ: I would like to change registrations without the need to add tracks as new instruments, just as I used to do on a "live" pipe organ. Ideally, there should also be a means of shutter control, and crescendo pedals and a few preset buttons.

Piano: well, very important to me, but I won't have any comment until the Authorized Steinway is released.

Ideally, but not under control of Gary, the new releases in my area of interest should be available at a time when my funds are also available.

Richard

[KeithW]

I realize this pretty much is nothing more than a "me too" post, but this. Only recently have I gotten good with the Garritan libraries and Finale, but the results have been fantastic. It's easier to be creative when the sounds coming from Finale are as authentic as they are with GPO, JABB, and CAMB.

I realize that given how connected you have been with the folks at MakeMusic that this is probably already a given, but it is honestly the only thing I would be concerned about. I'm sure the Aria engine is going to do great things for many people who use the libraries in a variety of ways, but so long as I know that Finale integration is for the most part unchanged, then I'm thrilled.

...and now I'm back to work! Music doesn't write itself, you know!

Me three... Robert P.'s work on Human Playback is a MUST for any future Aria player in conjunction with a notation package.

Keith W.

[Leaf]

I don't have the full kontakt player but was told you can add your own samples. I think a feature like that would be nice, particularly if it is easy.

Also the ability to extend the ranges of instruments for special occasions would be nice as long as it doesn't make you lose the original limited range if you want to return to that.

Another nice feature would be the ability to resize the windows to any size, and resize the text for the visually challenged.

Thanks for asking Gary!!:) If i think of anymore, i'll post

David:hp:

[DPDAN]

Another nice feature would be the ability to resize the windows to any size, and resize the text for the visually challenged.
David:hp:


Can I get an AMEN on that one?

Dan

[Jaybee]

Can I get an AMEN on that one?

Dan

Add a vote from Kentucky for this. This would be a Godsend! )(~

[LFO]

Some ensemble presets would be really helpful for users to get up and running quickly. For instance, a chamber ensemble, small orchestra, large orchestra, etc. These presets would include the kinds of combinations of players we typically see for ensembles. 1 solo violin with 1 lush, the tuning for each just a bit off, etc.


-Kevin

[noldar12]

+1 for the ability to resize text.

[etLux]

Can I get an AMEN on that one?

Dan

Amen. Twice.
.

[jmpaquette]

Amen. Twice.
.

AMEN and Hallelujah!

Seconding the request for the ability to bring in other samples. I'd like to be able to work out of one single player .. . . without making all of my other sounds obsolete.



Joe

[fastlane]

I want to be able to just sit and eat bread and drink wine and say, "play harp".

Just hoping for some of that Garritan magic and ease of use without compromising it's capabilities. Think iPhone.

Oh yes, and Mac friendly. I'm sure it will be.



Phil

[Reegs]

Think iPhone.

Integrated email client? :p

Could there be a Record to File function for the standalone like the old Studio app?

[Pierre Laroche]

Me three... Robert P.'s work on Human Playback is a MUST for any future Aria player in conjunction with a notation package.

Keith W.

Me four... I prefer "writing" music rather than performing it on a MIDI keyboard. So integration with Finale is a MUST for me too.

And concerning the future Choir library, as I am a choir conductor and arranger, having the possibility to have realistic divisi on voices would be really great : I regularly write arrangements with 2 Soprano voices, or for male choir with 2 Tenor plus Baryton and Bass voices (TTBB).

Thanks for asking,

[ejr]

- A sampling engine that doesn't crash all the time, or forget where the samples or skins are.

- A sane registration/authorization process.

- Give up this idea of having to use the sustain pedal for anything other than sustainig, having to ride the mod wheel all the time, and keyswitches. I don't want to have to re-learn how to play the keyboard and re-record everything I've ever composed just to upgrade my samples. I know some people like it, and I have no problem with you're leaving it in for those who want to work this way, but for the rest of us, I'd like to be able to play the way I have always played and let the instrument figure out when it should use legato or staccato samples. (See the blurb for the latest black bass for a description of how this should be done.)

- Assuming the above is implimented, I'd also like to be able to load a particular articulation directly, in case I disagree with where you have set the crossover points.

- Dry samples are better than those with reverb, eq, and other enhancements that I can't change. But, by default, an instrument should load with all the processing that makes it sound its best. I spend far too much time just trying to get an instrument to sound "normal" and this is the effect that I want most of the time.

- If you are going to use unlooped samples, at least provided a looped alternative (or an easy way to loop it). It seems that, in every library, no matter how long the sustains are, there is at least one instrument where it stops a little short of what I need it to be. And the cut off times are inconsistent from unlooped instrument to unlooped instrument. I can think of one library where the solo tremelo instruments for the violin, viola and cello are all of different lengths. I record a nice violin part, then add the viola and it cuts out before the tremelo is finished. I add the cello, with its own cutoff time, and it begins to sound like mud. If you are trying to make it sound more realistic for string instruments with shorter bows, then the sample should reverse the bow stroke direction, as many times as necessary, so that I can sustain as long as I want to.

- Finally, I am tired of seeing every library come out with essentially the same sounds. There are zillions of guitars, pianos, strings, etc. There are several voice libraries, but to date they all focus primarily on female voices, ensembles and classical style. There are only two sexes. Is it asking too much to have a male soloist? Or two (tenor and bass)? And how about a jazz or pop style singing for those occassions where vibrato and/or belting is not appropriate? I don't care a bit about whether a vocal library can form words. The human voice is the hardest thing to synthesize. None of them sound convincing to me, and I don't think this will ever work to my satisfaction. I'd be happy with oos and ahs, since the work I am doing will just be a demo for a live performance anyway. Finally, there are no good sax libraries. There, I've said it. Some are better than others. Some are quite a bit better. But none captures the way that saxes sound to me in real life. They particularly fall down in the softer, subtone area. This is used so much in recording, and in the theater, and too many sax libraries seemed to have been sampled at full blast -- the worst of them sounding like kazoos -- and they don't blend together well with other instruments, even in the same libraries. A decent sax, library, please. And vocals. I could live without the upteenth flute or guitar library for one of those. (Also, now that I think of it, the choices fo banjo and mandolin libraries seem to be pretty slim pickin's -- if you'll pardon the expression. It seems that the only way to get them is to buy a big library with lots of other instruments -- mostly guitars -- that I don't need.)

[Hajo]

Hello,

1. Integration with Finale
2. Playback characteristics like the tools from R. Piéchaud
2. Possibility to load other sounds (not Garritan) and soundbanks (*.sf2)
3. Grouping of instruments for easier sound control

4. A classical guitar with the controls of the Gofriller*()

Nothing new under the sun.

Hajo

[Nickie Fønshauge]

Can I get an AMEN on that one?
Being an atheist I'll just stick to: Hear, hear & second that.

[marce]

For ARIA:

-A "Search" function for quick locate of the desired instrument

-Some kind of editor for the sfz format.

-If it is able to import other kind of instruments, a database for quick find them.

[Pingu]

Give up this idea of having to use the sustain pedal for anything other than sustainig, having to ride the mod wheel all the time,

I was about to vote for keeping the modwheel thing. I can't think of a more intuitive way of doing volume - maybe breath controller, but so few people have them - maybe pedal for organists, but not for the rest of us.

Artificial harmonics for the strings would be nice - but I suspect that might be a GPOA thing?

[KE Peace]

I know I sound like a broken record, but....

continued ease of integration with notation programmes like Finale.

What I appreciate the most about GPO, is that I can simply work on my scores and Finale + HP + GPO (and the other Garritan libraries) will play them back in a more than satisfactory way with a minimum of fuss and muss.

Keep this ease of use, and the good integration, and you will not lose the hundreds (if not thousands) of Finale users who have grown to love GPO and its sister libraries.

This means keeping in touch with Robert P. and the developers at MakeMusic Inc.

Gary, I'll add a "me too" to Michel's words -- for me, that's very important -- I don't want to have to fiddle too much with integration if possible; I just want to write.

I have not kept up with all that is going on (which is alot), and this may be off-base, but good integrated help/tutorial for those of us, like myself, who are not sound engineers, and some of the controls one might commonly use in rendering a mix like reverb of various types (hall, room, etc), compression... those would be great. Also, ease of use of various midi control commands to modify the sounds (eg, mute the violin/trumpet,etc). Maybe these are already included, if so "Thank you Mr. Garritan"! :)

[lallis]

For ARIA:

...

-If it is able to import other kind of instruments, a database for quick find them.



I personally have no problems finding my instruments, although a database and search wouldn't hurt anything. I just hope this Aria thing might be ambitious enough to play full-blast Kontakt instruments accurately, so I can ditch that awkward bugger. Gigas too, naturally.

I can't get a grip on whether it is to be a full-fledged sampler program, or just another little library player.

Larry

[Raymond62]

Simple. As soon as possible.

[Hannes_F]

I see a tendency here for velocity-controlled volume and notation integration.

I respect this as an addition but it would not make me too happy if this would be the mainstream. What I rather would prefer would be the idea of having instruments which inspire a strings- or winds/brass-like playing mood.

Obviously many composers come from a piano background and want to do just what they ever did - hit a handful of keys and expect a great result. Or, if that does not work, write notes and expect an even better result.

The beauty and genius of GPO, Garritan Strad, Gofriller etc. in comparision to other libraries has always been that they are based on the insight that there is no "hit and forget" for continuos instruments like strings, winds and brass. The community is running through a constant education process because all beginners start at the same point where they press a key (or write a note without hairpin) and think "arrggh, how bad does that sound". After a while there comes a better understanding and appreciation of the nature of strings, winds and brass instruments, and with that the famous "mod-wheel riding" (respective detailed dynamic writing), better writing of voice lines plus mixing - and magically the results get better and better.

I am aware of the fact that libraries that come with a certain amount of velocity->volume coupling are often referred as being "playable", especially when there is a reverb already built in. Of course the first impression is much nicer - you can enjoy doodling around right away. But wait until you want to go into details or have a setup with dozens of instruments. Then both, velocity induced volume and individual reverb can get into your way massively.

Some library makers already provide different patches BTW, velocity driven and modwheel driven. Some provide patches that have both to a portion. Whenever I can I reprogram them because I think that velocity should be mapped to the attack and the modwheel to the volume, and both in a non-ambiguos way.

Another point to mention is that individual vibrato control is already there for many solo wind instruments in the current version of GPO and JABB. I wish there was a consistent cc assignment for all the libraries, but it is workeable like it is. So actually much of what many people demand for GPOA is already there, but it requires the study of the manual. :( :wow:

My wishes for a new player would be:
- Give note beginnings some love (more than only one attack sort that can be faded in more or less)
- Give note ends some love (more than just ADSR fadeouts)
- Give legato some love (including legato for fast passages which is nearly impossible with most current libraries)
- Give portamento some love (nuanced portamento for groups are difficult to do with samples, most libraries have either no portamento or a big smear)
- Give the vibrato some love (controlleable width and depth)
- Give timbre some love (bow contact point for strings, lip tension for winds and brass)
- Give the routing some love (including power panning and routing to individual outs)

I think 99 % of all scripting that I have seen would be redundant if these basic requirements were handled by the engines.

Over all I embrace everything that goes towards the idea of Virtual Instruments, that means basically ONE patch that delivers all if played differently. Different articulations handled by keyswitches tend to be inconsistent. The Gofriller is a very good example of what really works for me.

The backside of my proposals are obvious, because to get good results you must learn your craft. There is no "make a masterpiece" knob anywhere.

The benefit of the current thinking is that it educates us, the users. Since it is not sufficient to get away with a keybord-thinking we learn what makes music better. It drives us from making bad caricatures towards making real art.

Best
Hannes

[Skysaw]

- Give note beginnings some love (more than only one attack sort that can be faded in more or less)
- Give note ends some love (more than just ADSR fadeouts)
- Give legato some love (including legato for fast passages which is nearly impossible with most current libraries)
- Give portamento some love (nuanced portamento for groups are difficult to do with samples, most libraries have either no portamento or a big smear)
- Give the vibrato some love (controlleable width and depth)
- Give timbre some love (bow contact point for strings, lip tension for winds and brass)
- Give the routing some love (including power panning and routing to individual outs)

I think 99 % of all scripting that I have seen would be redundant if these basic requirements were handled by the engines.
Seconding all of this!

So far as scripting goes, even if these enhancements made it mostly unnecessary, it would be GREAT to keep in some sort of scripting function for those who like to tinker. I'd love to see an online library of scripts that users can upload/download.

[qccowboy]

Just so we are clear on this: my background is as a composer. It has nothing to do with being a keyboard (or any other instrument) player.

I want the new player to be integrated into my notation software, because that is what the musicians I give my music to will see: notation.

I don't care for "live" playing of samples, because if the sampler were "realistic" then I would have to spend a lifetime learning how to play each sample in it, the same way I'd have to learn how to play the instruments of the orchestra that will play my music.

And for the record, I come from a background of keyboard, woodwind, voice, percussion, and conducting. Just to dispel any illusions that all composers who use notation programmes are "keyboard plunkers".



Obviously many composers come from a piano background and want to do just what they ever did - hit a handful of keys and expect a great result. Or, if that does not work, write notes and expect an even better result.

[Hannes_F]

Just so we are clear on this: my background is as a composer. It has nothing to do with being a keyboard (or any other instrument) player.

I want the new player to be integrated into my notation software, because that is what the musicians I give my music to will see: notation.

I don't care for "live" playing of samples, because if the sampler were "realistic" then I would have to spend a lifetime learning how to play each sample in it, the same way I'd have to learn how to play the instruments of the orchestra that will play my music.

And for the record, I come from a background of keyboard, woodwind, voice, percussion, and conducting. Just to dispel any illusions that all composers who use notation programmes are "keyboard plunkers".


Hehe Michel,

my fault that I mixed two groups together in what I were saying. I know very well that notation composers (I am one of them sometimes) are a different breed than keyboard players (I am one of them also sometimes).

You have all my understanding and support for the seamless integration with notation programs.

Then again, if checking your notated music is all what you want then you should be perfectly happy with the Kontakt Player versions of GPO already. Your music will be recorded live anyway.

I am using samples for actually producing music and I can say I am expecting a lot more from the new engine than what we have now. Hence my wish list, and the hope that there will not be a lowest common denominator that makes all keyboard-ish.

Hannes

[BenNichols]

1. KEEP the modwheel for dynamics/timbre changes

2. Get rid of the need for an expression pedal for the cello and strad. Few people have these, or the ability to use them.

3. A way of changing the timbre of an instrument. Eg. A violin can produce v different timbres, all at the same dynamic. Having all these different timbres for all instruments would really open up sonic possibilities!

4. MAKE BRASS PUNCHIER. (or at least the option to be!)

5. Extra samples such as standard timp crescendo...timp glisses, brushed gong and bowed vibraphone etc...

6. ENSEMBLE PERCUSSION HITS. taiko drums etc

Thanks!

Ben

[nikolas]

Just a small question:

Will GPO have the capabilities that the strad and the gofr have? Or these are saved for the new strings library? or GPO-A or something?

Anyways, I'd like to see a full library with the capabilities that the strad has. And not only for strings but for all instruments. )(~

[Nickie Fønshauge]

Seconding all of this!

So far as scripting goes, even if these enhancements made it mostly unnecessary, it would be GREAT to keep in some sort of scripting function for those who like to tinker. I'd love to see an online library of scripts that users can upload/download.
Second the second & the scripting request. All good suggestions.

Scripting is just too powerful a tool to be left out of the equation. No matter how good the engine, you can always do more with scripting added.

I would also like to see a browser like Kore 2's. That would be cool.

And please: DXi support! I just discovered today, that Sonar 6 doesn't seem to send dynamic program changes to VSTi plugins, whereas it does send them to DXi plugins and standalone synths. :(

[pianodoc]

May I please second what Michel said in an earlier post. Ease of use and continued integratiion with notation programs, in my case Finale, would be at the top of my list.

Otherwise I can't say how much I'm looking forward to the release of GOS-2 (or whatever it will be called) and the subsequent release of GPO Advanced. The sooner the better.

Thanks for all your support with my music making.

David Mauney

[garymosse]

I've read a few posts that suggest that 'ambiance' might once again be useable in Mac-intel. That's the one thing I would like, perhaps with a little easier upgrade for NI.
Gary

[for fun]

I use JABB as a real instrument emulation tool controlled with my Akai EWI wind controller to play live and to record on my MAC. I have a couple of these software synth/sample libraries and in my opinion, though not as responsive as the hardware synth integrated into the EWI, this one is better than the others I've tried.

So, I'd like to request that the new player be as responsive to use with a wind controller as possible.

Thanks,

Jim

[Raymond62]

Hannes_F, there is a lot more than just hitting a key when you play a piano.
If it was simple as that, then the only thing is to learn how to move your fingers fast enough, hitting those keys (apart from analyzing the piece at hand). Libraries are filled with piano techniques, how to hit them, fast, gentle, short, staccato-like, with or without bending the fingers, hitting it with the fingertip(more to the nails) or just the top of the fingers (the flesh I mean), how to develop the legato (overlapped or not), using the different pedals in time, and on and on.......

Sometimes piano players and -lovers call this touché, wether or not this word is at his place here. Even the technique of "after-touch" is a subject of good piano education. So it is not just hitting, velocity and volume, it is also "making the sound music". Hitting the keys is what most pop-players do.

I am not sure if this is true, but I think that most of the famous composers used any kind of notation system - pen, ink and paper AND THE PIANO.

[Styxx]

yeah, that sounds good to me .... :hp:

[Haydn]

I pretty much agree with Hannes_F especially when it comes to using the mod wheel (or being able to assign your controller of choice) for volume and timbre. The current way of using velocity makes more sense for non-percussive instruments. It drives me crazy in most of the libraries where volume is controller from multiple sources, such as velocity and volume (or expression). I find it very hard to match volumes between the different instruments in these libraries.

I've noticed that Wallander Instruments is using the same basic control idea with velocity controlling attack and CC2 (or CC1 or whatever you pick) for volume and timbre. It works great for wind or breath controllers.

Jim

[raz.bari.88]

There's not much, but here I go.

Jabb - Some different pedal affects for guitar and bass, like distortion or wah-wah already built into the sample player. Mabye a slap bass sound. I know they aren't always used in Jazz, but I have seen them enough to know they are used, mostly in newer Jazz material.

CAMB - I don't know if anyone has ever noticed this, but the Baritones always sound deeper to me than the Euphoniums, sounding like the samples are switched or something. Also, could you possibly include a vibraphone instrument, cause I don't know of any drum corps that doesn't have at least one. Also, slapstick and brake drum would be appreciated.

I've also said this before, but it would be really cool if for the stage placement thing, if you could import drill from a program like Pi Ware and have the instrument sounds pan in conjunction with the general placement of horn spots in the drill, but this is only a wish, and would probably take another program, but it would be really cool.

Both - Continued integrating with Sibelius and Finale, since I use those the most.

[taylorchandler]

Better brass samples. Deliver aria and whatever libraries it is going to play sooner, not later,,,,,release us from the NI kp2 incompetance as soon as possible.
John Taylor:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[darrob]

Hi

I also add my voice to the request that Michel made. It would really be nice to see Aria supported from within Finale.

Also, with CoMB - an ensemble of drums, with more techniques. Seems silly to me to have a full marching band with only one drummer.


Cheers...

Daz :0)

[Hannes_F]

Hannes_F, there is a lot more than just hitting a key when you play a piano.
If it was simple as that, then the only thing is to learn how to move your fingers fast enough, hitting those keys (apart from analyzing the piece at hand). Libraries are filled with piano techniques, how to hit them, fast, gentle, short, staccato-like, with or without bending the fingers, hitting it with the fingertip(more to the nails) or just the top of the fingers (the flesh I mean), how to develop the legato (overlapped or not), using the different pedals in time, and on and on........

Raymond62,

thank you for your list. I studied piano at conservatory for several years, so I fully understood what you mean. Since you have been playing cello I take it as a given that you also understood what I mean.

Your list shows the more that piano think is something very different than string/wind/brass think. Not better, not worse, but very different.

You certainly know that while most composers were fairly good pianists, nearly all of them had a good grasp on those "continuos" instruments - at least high interest. W. A. Mozart was not only one of the best piano players of his time but also one of the best violinists if we assume that he could play his own works in concert.

Back to the ARIA player: I suppose it is essential that it can cover both piano think and continuos think.

Hannes

[qccowboy]

Please allow me to add yet one more detail to my request:

Could the Aria Player user interface be one that is free of useless "cosmetic" detail?

I don't think anyone really cares after the first few times they see it if the knobs LOOK 3-D, or turn like real knobs on an external module.

In some cases I have come across, it is difficult to differentiate between a functional knob/control and a "decorative element" that is nothing more than part of the "skin".

Make the Aria Player clean, efficient, and lean... not a memory hog over insignificant detailing. As the saying goes, K.I.S.S.

I don't know how many people really care for all the fluff and glitter that too many modern programmes suffer from.

[rbowser-]

It's a really great thread, with a lot of heart felt input.

I think I would go Mad trying to please the consumers of music software programs, trying to accommodate as many people as possible but knowing that it's impossible to satisfy everyone.

The different needs of notation users as compared to DAW users is a big topic on this thread. The former want instruments to sound as organic as possible with the least amount of user hassle, the latter want great sounding instruments with a lot of potential flexibility which they can play and edit to their hearts' content.

One of the themes on this and other threads, and other bulletin boards online, is that people keep asking for the most realistic virtual instruments possible, but which can be used successfully with the least amount of effort.

I think that is a misguided wish, and a trap which people fell into when the old hardware synths would emerge with fantastic sounds--which ended up being inflexible, and instantly passe since everyone would use them and as we all know--familiarity breeds contempt. Synths would become "flavors of the month"--to be discarded by the Next Great Synth--and then that one would also in due course be relegated to the Has Been Pile.

What all those flash-in-the-pan synths and sounds have in common is that they were impressive at first--they sounded great, and were too EAsy to use.

Meanwhile, more down to earth approaches were being used by musicians, working the data, tweaking the patches, making the most out of less PRoduced sounds--And those work habits are still what's needed today to produce good sounding music with virtual instruments.

The easier, the more instantly gratifying an instrument is - the more likely it is to produce homogenized results which are ultimately unsatisfying.

To ask for instruments which practically play themselves - just push a key, just insert a note in a notation program--and out comes the Perfect sound for a particular compositon--that's an impossible and misled dream. How can something which instantly sounds perfectly wonderful truly fit all occasions? We MUst be constantly crafting the attacks of sounds, the volume dynamics, and in the audio realm, the EQing, the reverb treatment--etc.

Whoever thinks that making good music with a computer should be a "plug and play" situation is living in La La Land.

Steep learning curves? Um--ok, yeah, so what? Don't we learn as we mature that everything worthwhile calls for blood, sweat and tears to achieve?

The composer/musician/home-recordist needs instruments which are complex and have a requisite learning curve in order to get the most out of them. THen they have flexible instruments which they can use appropriately for each product. Manufacturers who cater to That kind of sensibility--the one which realizes that instant-gratification isn't the road to great music--those are the ones we want to pay attention to and give business to.

And that's why we're all here at the Garritan Forums. There is simply no other company, and no other man, who is so authentically dedicated to making the most intelligent, good sounding and affordable music software.

We shouldn't ask for Aria to be The Holy Grail of sample players, making our work miraculously simple. We shouldn't be wishing for our recording/rendering projects to be reduced to doing nothing more than inserting or playing notes and expecting the rest (um--the Performance part) be taken care of by software. Why would anyone want that?

Well--some people want that because they love to say, "I'm an artist, a composer, I don't want to become a sound engineer." OK, well then write music and stop whining about not being able to make great recordings! Put pen to paper and write music while sitting under a tree, like Beethoven. Leave the complicated sequencing, and recording to people who care about it - --but miss out on the fun of coming up with good sounding recordings that you Could do yourself if you put a little effort into learning how.

ONE "wish list" item on this thread is probably one I would agree to as a worthy wish--That more release samples could be used in the Libraries. The actual decaying sound of an instrument is always more satisfyingly authentic than an ADSR envelope closing down. - But - it's not a wish that keeps me awake at night. :)

My wish is for GPO, Jabb, CMB, Aria--for all of those things we use to never get simpler. I don't want simpler. I want things to remain as flexible as possible.

If I wanted simple--I'd be content with a Casio one-finger-chord accompaniment toy.

Randy B.

[qccowboy]

Randy, I think you misunderstand the use of (for example in my case, Finale) notation programmes as playback units.

No one is saying that you should enter a note and it should be perfect.

The proof is that I see daily scores done in Finale that sound like crap. Why? Because they are not taking advantage of how Finale and HumanPlayback function together in tandem with a score that is properly notated.

A score with nothing but notes cannot sound "great" without SOME input from the composer/arranger. By this I don't mean endless tweaking and drawing in of velocity curves and umpteen controllers.

A score with slurs, and dynamics, and articulations, and hairpins, WILL playback well. And with the way Robert P. has designed HumanPlayback, it will come damned close to the way a real musician would approach that score with the sheet music. A score with a few extra "cheats" (invisible expressions and articulations, for example) comes even closer. All of which is part and parcel of using a notation programme.

I also think it would be quite unwise to dismiss the requirements of notation users at this time. Both Finale and Sibelius have become firmly integrated with GPO and its sister libraries, and their thousands upon thousands of users have a reasonable expectation of continuation of this integration.

As a notation user, I don't expect renderings of my scores through Finale to approach the same "realism" as someone who is willing and able to spend hours tweaking in a sequencer. But like many composers who work with live musicians, I also have no interest in spending that time. The best quality rendering of my demos, with the least amount of wasted effort, is in my eyes a laudable goal.

However, I also don't think that it is the best advertisement for Gary Garritan's product if the only way to get a realistic rendering IS through hours upon hours of tweaking and fine-tuning in a sequencer.

The proof that Gary has succeeded in making a great product is that people like myself, who work solely from notation, are able to get fairly realistic renderings of our scores, using only our notation programmes and the Garritan libraries.

I honestly think it would be a serious error to underestimate the number of people who are using the various Garritan libraries through notation programmes. To suddenly leave them in the lurch to satisfy only the needs of sequencer users would be a fatal error, business-wise.

[rbowser-]

Hello, Michel!--My, we're both up late. I was ready to finally shut down the 'puter, after a long unwinding from a very exhilarating rehearsal for my stage musical, when your intriguing and thought response came in.

It's nice to see us on the same thread again--That hasn't happened for awhile it would seem. :)

I don't think I am "...misunderstanding the use of notation programs..." I was speaking in general terms about how I often hear notation users expressing the wish that the step towards making an acceptable rendering could be even more automatic than it already is. Notation users are often complaining about the difficulties they have at achieving acceptable results, at having to learn about so many things. I've even someone say it's "absurd" that they have to bother with things like MIDI controller One--when it's rather at the core of massaging samples into organic, musical life when using the Garritan Libraries. What does such a person want--an instrument that somehow intuitively knows when to swell and fall all on its own, and yet not sound mechanical and predictable?

Using Human Playback and taking care to how detailed a score is fleshed out are clearly what sets apart excellent renderings such as yours from run-of-the-mill notation renderings. But you, David "Et Lux" and others are the exceptions rather than the rule.

"...I also think it would be quite unwise to dismiss the requirements of notation users at this time..."

Well of course it would be unwise. My post was mostly about pointing out how difficult it must be for software developers to satisfy everyone, the users of DAWs as well as notation users.

If we were still in the era when all music had to actually be played, as in the hardware synth era, then it would be a very different picture. Compromises wouldn't have to be made as readily, because everyone would be actually playing their instruments - like in the excellent video demos of The Garritan Strad.

But now we're in an age where people Can potentially make good recordings/renderings by only working in the realm of notated music--And it's nothing short of miraculous. But look at the adaptations software developers had to make--! Instruments that can be used in real time but which also sound good when triggered by the input of a note event and a handful of notated commands. Wow!

Notation users indeed need to be included when music software is developed--and I'm simply marveling at how difficult that must be, to satisfy these two rather different kinds of customers.

And I stand by what I said - that the easier and more instantly gratifying software becomes, the less truly useful it becomes. That sentiment is regardless of the notation/DAW equation.

Randy B.

[Michael_uk]

Hello Randy and Michel,

Whereas Randy works through a sequencer (Sonar) and Michel works through notation (Finale) I use both. I prepare my scores in Finale and, like Michel, I try to add as much detail as I can in my score using articulations, dynamic markings and Robert's superb HP feature. Then I import Finale's MIDI file into Sonar where, like Randy, I work hard preparing and crafting my performances. I spend just as long on my score in Sonar as I do in Finale.

I agree with Randy that there is a tendency in many notation users to expect automation, ie enter the notes press a button and voila they have a near perfect (to their ears) performance. I see this often in the Finale forums where a poster will grumble that their GPO or JaBB instruments 'don't sound 'right' or as is wanted and expected. These people haven't twigged that they have to invest time and TLC on their scores and, if not already possessed, they have to acquire skills and to attend to the necessary learning curve. I also agree that demands and expectations for evermore simpler, automatic and instantly gratifying features are misguided.

I agree with Michel regarding the input required to achieve even a half decent sounding score. A while back Michel posted a sample of one of his scores showing what is involved in a score to achieve a realistic recording direct from a score. The detail was amazing and time consuming to achieve. As has been said, many notation users expect a realistic playback without any effort. I also agree that it is so important for Gary to continue with his support for notation users and there must be tens of thousands of us spread across the globe. I support Michel's plea for Gary to continue to support notation users with his player and libraries and I am confident that Gary will continue with his support.

Like both Randy and Michel I hope that Gary doesn't meet the seemingly growing request for elements of automation and methods for instant gratification. This is not to be confused with ease of use and 'user-friendly' features. For those who want instant, out of the package results there are already tools out there offering this. Personally, I hope Gary continues to give us the most realistic sounding instruments he can and the tools to craft our performances whatever the notation or sequencer learning curve and user input.

[Raymond62]

.............Personally, I hope Gary continues to give us the most realistic sounding instruments he can and the tools to craft our performances ...........

Yes! Quite a while ago I saw an announcement of the new developed Reverb Tool (presented at the NAMM in 2007 - I guess). Recently I bought the Strad. Also recently I saw the NAMM stories and the article in SoundOnSound. They were all announcements, presentations, promises.

I saw the Steinway presented at NAMM (2008), that new Church organ , withdrawl of the Strad and Gofriller (in favour of the ARIA player?) ...... I begin to ask when does he fulfil those promises?

Still it is heaven to play with Garritan stuff....

[Skysaw]

I'm with Randy on this one. Flexibility must come first. If it's easy to use, that's wonderful! But not if it's at the cost of flexibility. I want to be able to shape every aspect of a performance because I know much better than my PC what it should sound like.

[Styxx]

yeah, that sounds good to me .... :hp:

[Saraswati]

The single most important feature for me is to be able to adjust the frequencies in terms of hertz and not just cents. That is, to be able to choose a tonic having any hertz value and then being able to build a scale around it, whether equal tone, pythagorean, just intonation, or whatever. Even better would be to be able to adjust the hertz of more than one note in the scale, to create desired ratios.

My main "market" is based on this. People have requested I create music with specific frequencies for the last five years (for reasons described below), and the latest request was only last month. There is a project I am doing the music for (thus far for free) that will probably be seen by tens of thousands or more, based on their previous offerings, and I would love to be able to use this feature.

The Kontakt sampler has certain abilities; you can adjust the Hertz of the A within a limited range. It can't do all I need, but is still of great value. There's supposedly some software that can do it all (including adding binaural beats to help the brain), but it's not for Macs. And naturally I'm on an older iMac!

There are specific frequencies found in the natural cycles that are beneficial for health of mind and body. For instance, 528 Hz has been used by genetic scientists (the benevolent kind) to repair broken DNA. Other frequencies heal bones. The Schumann Resonance, the earth's fundamental frequency (or its overtones), is directly linked to human brain waves, specifically to the low alpha waves conducive to calm mind, health, and :) creativity--the life blood of musicians. There's extensive research on this. There are frequencies helpful for sleep, learning, etc.--you name it. Recordings of music have been made with (overtones of) the DNA's own frequencies, with much-applauded results. There are the ancient solfeggio frequencies, which evidently were the tones of our own ancient musical scale, and in which the original Gregorian chants were sung, which were changed centuries ago by the "powers that be." Certain notes of the ancient solfeggio scale, when combined with certain others, create either the golden mean ratio or pi ratio, again in alignment with with the natural way of things (our bodies being built on these). Also scientists at Nasa and elsewhere have recorded the sun and planets and lowered them several octaves so the human ear could hear them. The list could go on and on.

No one knows the power of sound like musicians. We are all bombarded day and night with the sounds of appliances, subtle electric currents, construction, cars, TV's, and music that, while its scale is very flexible, no longer has the specific frequencies or ratios known to enhance our well-being. Our environment once provided us with an array of natural and positive sound frequencies. But with the unbalance of life in the modern world and stress everywhere, we now need RESTORATIVE sound more than ever. Why not compose music containing those frequencies, when it's just as easy as not, given the right software? That's what I'd like to do. :|:

Some other important things for me in ARIA are ease of use--an intuitive feel--and an inspirational design and beautiful color scheme with simple, elegant lines. (Unfortunately Kontakt just didn't make it in that department.) Also a very clear manual, including a paper version. And fantastic legato and portamento on all appropriate instruments. But I know already these things are being well attended to! )(~

Oh, and I concur with scripting!!! and with an alternative to the expression pedal. In my own case, early piano lessons programmed in the use of hands to control volume, and the expression pedal hasn't been that successful yet.


Cheers, Saraswati

[danpowers]

I gotta have more cowbell!

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/5853/morecowbell5ri.gif

[Jon Bryson]

I gotta have more cowbell!

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/5853/morecowbell5ri.gif

I've got a fever, and the only prescription is... *()

[mnde]

My own GPO wish-list (as well as many of the excellent suggestions above):

1. Add a NV oboe, and a KS oboe to match the flute: V, NV, flutter tongue (I can't do it - but it is possible e.g. Strauss Alpine Symphony)

2. How about woodwind key noise patch that you could layer in for more realism in small ensembles - or have on its own? I've heard modern compositions that use key slap/click noises for percussive effect.

3. Woodwind and brass "intake of breath" solo and ensemble KS patches to add extra realism to small ensembles. E.g. that unique sound from trombonists breathing in through the mouthpiece.

4. Improved woodwind trills/tremolos. How about the possibility to hold down one note on the keyboard and tap an adjacent note to activate the trill or tremolo i.e. so when you release the adjacent note, the first held note sounds again, just like fingering a trill on a real flute etc. One finger trills (OFT) for woodwind/brass, apart from being more intuitive, might make things easier for those of us whose trilling fingers are not quite of Liszt standard. As a compromise with those who prefer the existing piano style trilling, OFT could be added as a keyswitch.

You could go as far as adding trill KS patches like for the strings. But then we're getting into VSL territory...

5. Open string KS patches for all solo and ensemble strings. For fast passages where string players use open strings for facility; for baroque music where "performance practice" tomes tells us that use of open strings was more prevalent; in double/triple stops, and of course folk music. Also what about "col legno" ?

6. A couple of solo Euphoniums for GPO. You know you want to. Indispensible for rendering Berlioz, Holst Planets etc. I don't want to buy CMB just to get a euphonium. A more extended upper range on the tuba would be good. Oh and while I'm at it, I'd also like to see solo and ensemble cornets in GPO too.

7. Handstopped horn patch and/or keyswitch for solo and ensemble instruments. Both normal and AG. I really want that magic stopped sound that is different from the mute sound.

8. How about fingernail hits and trills on the timpani - they can be really dramatic in quiet passages (e.g. John Williams Star Wars). And soft sticks/hard sticks.

9. A classical guitar in GPO. With harmonic KS and string scratch sound layering. How about some more baroque continuo instruments: lute, mandolin, theorbo?

10. A consort of recorders?

11. I too would love to have a fortepiano in GPO.

That's all I can think of for now!

Mark.

[Styxx]

I gotta have more cowbell!

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/5853/morecowbell5ri.gifThat's what I like ... a silent cow bell.

[Saraswati]

My own GPO wish-list (as well as many of the excellent suggestions above):

9. A classical guitar in GPO. With harmonic KS and string scratch sound layering. How about some more baroque continuo instruments: lute, mandolin, theorbo?

10. A consort of recorders?

11. I too would love to have a fortepiano in GPO.
Mark.

I agree about the classical guitar, baroque instruments, and Euphonium. With the guitar, lute, mandolin, and also with the harp, it would be great to have a real tremolo that would extend as long as you want. I'd use it a lot.

Saraswati

[Rhap2]

Gary:

I am mostly pleased with everything you have included
in your libraries, but I needed to find the sound of an

ANVIL

and couldn't anywhere--not even in notation programs.

So, I would like an Anvil Sound in the new GPOA, if possible.

Anticipating the new "Steinway D" with the new ARIA player--
hopefully soon.


Jack

[rbowser-]

In the area of additional instruments, I heartily second the idea of having Recorders and Lute.

When I needed Recorders for "Dorian," I sought out and used Sound Fonts which worked fine, but of course no regular Sound Font can match the playabilitiy of Garritanized instruments!

Randy B.

[Skysaw]

If the library gets very big, I'd like to see it available also as strings, woodwinds, brass, and percussion packages.

[Raymond62]

.....There are specific frequencies found in the natural cycles that are beneficial for health of mind and body. For instance, 528 Hz has been used by genetic scientists (the benevolent kind) to repair broken DNA. Other frequencies heal bones....

Interesting material! I myself did a study in the past of how frequencies influenced our well being (or not well being of course). Found some very surprising elements. Nice to see that this subject is brought up by a forum member.

[qccowboy]

I've even someone say it's "absurd" that they have to bother with things like MIDI controller One--when it's rather at the core of massaging samples into organic, musical life when using the Garritan Libraries. What does such a person want--an instrument that somehow intuitively knows when to swell and fall all on its own, and yet not sound mechanical and predictable?



Don't forget, some of those same people you mention on the Finale forum are those who think that Finale should be able to write down in a publishable form their musical dictation as they doodle at the keyboard, or transcribe from a CD the audio into perfectly formatted score and parts.

The unrealistic expectations of a brutish few should not tarnish the sterling musical ambitions of the many.

[reberclark]

Hello,

I thought I had contibuted to this thread but cannot find my post, so I will try again (although my input isn't very earth-shattering or important).

Integration with Finale is essential (okay, I guess Sibelius too). There are so many of us who are NOT amateurs using these tools (Finale and Sonar or some combination of notation and sequencer programs) that to disconnect the libraries from notation programs would truly be disheartening and place Garritan products (in my view) into the ever-expanding niche of samplers and not the unique position it has with regard to its flexibility. Please, please continue to integrate with Finale.

One other thing I would like to see is the long-proposed "Real Spaces" drag-and-drop convolution reverb engine included with ARIA.

'K. Bye.

[trimpe]

A score with slurs, and dynamics, and articulations, and hairpins, WILL playback well. And with the way Robert P. has designed HumanPlayback, it will come damned close to the way a real musician would approach that score with the sheet music. A score with a few extra "cheats" (invisible expressions and articulations, for example) comes even closer. All of which is part and parcel of using a notation programme.
I realize that this is straying a bit from the original topic, but I thought I could add some tangential evidence here.

I too am exclusively notation, but to think that something will be perfect at the press of a button is silly. My writing style has changed slightly because of the GPO products and Human Playback, but not really in a way that most performers will ever notice. There are slight things I do differently in my scores to insure that they will play the way I intend. Any composer who is worth his salt should be articulating and phrasing their scores if they intend to hear it correctly. We expect the same from the actual performers, so why not expect it from the sound bank? That's one of the things I appreciate most about the how GPO and HP work together. Is it perfect? Of course not, but it's close enough that it is extremely clear what the intention is, and anybody listening to my demo recording will know it.

THAT'S the kind of flexibility and ease of use I appreciate. I recognize that there are many layers of additional flexibility I have yet to (or need to) touch, but for my personal needs, it does what I need. And really, if anything, GPO and HP have made me even more diligent in being as detailed as possible with my music, because if it doesn't sound right when I play it back, at this point, I have nobody to blame but myself.

Straying back on topic, I would second the request for a brake drum and/or anvil sound with the percussion that is in the CAMB pack. They (along with a vibraphone) are extremely common in the literature, and I was somewhat surprised to see they were missing from that library.

[qccowboy]

Why is it that the term "at the press of a button" comes back so often when refering to notation users?

Nothing I do when I prepare a score is "at the press of a button", any more so than someone who enters their music into a sequencer.

The only difference in amounts of work between sequencer and notation users is that sequncer users have a finished product that is a recording when they are finished working. I have a publisher score, and a decent quality recording.

It's almost as if some people think that preparing a score is a simple matter, some how less work than playing notes into a sequencer.

Please, someone, explain the continued reference to "at the push of a button"?

And I want to be clear that I am not targetting anyone in particular with this post, only latching on to a comment that seems to surface with an annoying regularity.

********
an extra point: I think it is important to know where exactly Gary Garritan is going with his new player. Is his goal with the new player and the upcoming libraries to seriously compete with the multi-thousand dollar sample libraries that are already on the market?

Or is it to continue to offer a fairly-priced, good quality (but not "professional") library?

[Michael_uk]

Yes! Quite a while ago I saw an announcement of the new developed Reverb Tool (presented at the NAMM in 2007 - I guess). Recently I bought the Strad. Also recently I saw the NAMM stories and the article in SoundOnSound. They were all announcements, presentations, promises.

I saw the Steinway presented at NAMM (2008), that new Church organ , withdrawl of the Strad and Gofriller (in favour of the ARIA player?) ...... I begin to ask when does he fulfil those promises?

Still it is heaven to play with Garritan stuff....
Hello Raymond,

This is a difficult one. First I do see your point; it was quite some time ago that Gary announced 'Real Spaces' and the choir library. Gary himself has said that he has already recorded many halls and, it seems, are ready to be integrated into a player. Similarly it has been some time since the Garritan choir was announced. We were promised the Garritan General MIDI (GEM) last year and now this is on hold as it has to be coded for the new player. I can understand scepticism and disappointment, but what is the alternative?

In his Updates to the Updates I have noticed that Gary posts less than he did when he first started his Updates announcements. Would we prefer the greater transparency of Gary's early update announcements but face greater disappointment when things don't materialise ot take longer than we hope often through unforeseen circumstances or for reasons out of Gary's control (such as problems with NI)?

Gary has already taken the decision to post updates less frequently and to announce projects and ETAs that are 'realistic'. I believe the organ has an ETA of Spring 2008, I thought this was the same for the Steinway but someone has said this is Winter 2008. I don't know when GEM is now scheduled but I hope this is sooner than later as I have a project waiting for this. The move on Strad and Gofriller surprised many of us but I'm sure this is for good reasons.

I understand entirely the frustrations and disappointments involved when something announced or promised doesn't materialise. I suspect that Gary feels them more acutely than any of us and that he will fulfill promises and, perhaps more importantly, the result will be be well worth waiting for.

Anyway, as you said, what we have is Heaven to play with so, off to play some more :)

[buckshead]

I don't use notation, I play keyboard to give me notation, I find it easier to play what I want written down straight from the keyboard, even if sometimes rather slowly. I would prefer that the midi controls works as originally designed ie volume from key press rather than from mod wheel, especially because this makes the tracks interchangeable with other software.

This of course is add odds with the needs of score writers, you can pleasesome of the people some of the time, but you cant please all of the people all of the time.

[Raymond62]

I suspect that Gary feels them more acutely than any of us and that he will fulfill promises and, perhaps more importantly, the result will be be well worth waiting for.

I have full confidence in the quality of the products. But what did he show at the NAMM (2007,2008)? Empty boxes with some attractive pictures on it? It had to be more or less a finished product. I am not disappointed, my workload is already too heavy, but I wondered why it took so long to launch those promised products, with all "heavenly written reviews".

[brsmith]

Gary,

I would like Ambience to show me what setting I chose. When I come back to Ambience I have no idea which preset I choose. I know that I show write down where I am but I seldom do this.

I need more percussion instruments.

Thanks

brsmtih

[Garritan]

I would like to see (soon) a Choir package that just contains the basic Aaahs, Ooohs, Mmmmms, in Boys, Mens, Womens, solo male, solo female and Full Choir. That would be great. The big, bad "we can sing anything" package can come later with full fanfare. Rick,

Thanks for the suggestions. We have developed such a product "Sibelius Choral" but it only works for Sibelius. Perhaps we can make a lighter choir set but I am concerned many will be disappointed because it does not have all he full features. What do others feel about such a set?

I would also like to see in the near future an International instruments package. How often I would have liked a Uilleann Pipe or Didgeridoo for those special pieces. Creating a Middle Eastern soundtrack without the special reed instruments can be pretty challenging.
Again, we did a set known as "Sibelius World Instruments" that works with Sibelius. This is part of a larger set we plan to release at a later date.

It would be great if the ARIA player allowed a custom patch panel that will allow control elements to be moved where ever we deem them best utilized. Remember, I am talking from a hobbyists point of view, and there are a LOT of us.
We're working on that.

Does ARIA come with a Convolution Reverb like on NI Kontakt 2? I hope so, that would be great. However, unlike NI, I would like to be able to have global control over the settings. If you are using, say, 20 instruments, changing reverb settings could be a bit of a pain.ARIA does have Convolution and will allow global control as well as chaining of IRs.

Thanks again for your suggestions.

Gary

[Garritan]

Additional string bowings such as col legno tratto/battuto, sul tasto/ponticello, etc would be nice as well - and maybe you've already plans for these with your strings project.Jon,

Many of these will be in GOS2.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Gary

[Garritan]

* Extended ranges
* Control over vibrato
* Control over portamento
* Good legato
* Crisp/fast staccatos (loud & soft)
* Sustains (no fade in, good loops)
* String harmonics, pizz, tremolo, col legno, sul pont, down bow/up bow, marcato, spicatto/ricochet, mute (for both solo & ensemble)
* Good spacial placement & reverb
* The ability to tweak things to our own tastes

The head of some company that makes drill bits once gave a speech to his employees and told them that they don't sell drill bits, they sell holes. What you need to sell us is not a collection of features, but the ability to make high quality MIDI 'mock-ups' that we can be proud of.

I like that - "don't sell bits, they sell holes". We'll do our best to cover as many of points in your list as possible.

Best,

Gary

[Garritan]

I don't have the full kontakt player but was told you can add your own samples. I think a feature like that would be nice, particularly if it is easy.

Also the ability to extend the ranges of instruments for special occasions would be nice as long as it doesn't make you lose the original limited range if you want to return to that.

Another nice feature would be the ability to resize the windows to any size, and resize the text for the visually challenged.David,

I have been working with a group of visually impaired musicians and that's one of the things on our wish list. This is important and we'll do our best.

Gary

[Garritan]

I want to be able to just sit and eat bread and drink wine and say, "play harp".

Just hoping for some of that Garritan magic and ease of use without compromising it's capabilities. Think iPhone. Phil,

You want wine-tasting and voice-recognition in ARIA? What happens if one's wife comes in the studio and says "please give me a massage"?

We're doing our best to make it easy to use.

Best,

Gary

[Garritan]

Integrated email client? :p

Could there be a Record to File function for the standalone like the old Studio app?Reegs,

Would you email love songs with an email client? :heart::heart::heart:

Record to File Function? Why... Already done!

Best,

Gary

[Garritan]

- A sampling engine that doesn't crash all the time, or forget where the samples or skins are. Done!


- A sane registration/authorization process. Done!


- Give up this idea of having to use the sustain pedal for anything other than sustain... [ This is our control system since we began and we most likely won't change it. However, we can look into providing alternate user-assignable controllers.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Gary

[Garritan]

My wishes for a new player would be:
- Give note beginnings some love (more than only one attack sort that can be faded in more or less)
- Give note ends some love (more than just ADSR fadeouts)
- Give legato some love (including legato for fast passages which is nearly impossible with most current libraries)
- Give portamento some love (nuanced portamento for groups are difficult to do with samples, most libraries have either no portamento or a big smear)
- Give the vibrato some love (controlleable width and depth)
- Give timbre some love (bow contact point for strings, lip tension for winds and brass)
- Give the routing some love (including power panning and routing to individual outs)

Hannes,

Fabulous suggestions of which I will take to heart. I think you will find much of what you ask in GOS2.

Your are so right about learning the craft. As with real instruments the virtuoso must practice and refine their craft. The "make a masterpiece" knob lies within the soul of the musician.

Thank you for your insights.

All the best,

Gary

[benjamind]

- Finally, I am tired of seeing every library come out with essentially the same sounds. There are zillions of guitars, pianos, strings, etc. There are several voice libraries, but to date they all focus primarily on female voices, ensembles and classical style. There are only two sexes. Is it asking too much to have a male soloist? Or two (tenor and bass)? And how about a jazz or pop style singing for those occassions where vibrato and/or belting is not appropriate? I don't care a bit about whether a vocal library can form words. The human voice is the hardest thing to synthesize. None of them sound convincing to me, and I don't think this will ever work to my satisfaction. I'd be happy with oos and ahs, since the work I am doing will just be a demo for a live performance anyway. Finally, there are no good sax libraries. There, I've said it. Some are better than others. Some are quite a bit better. But none captures the way that saxes sound to me in real life. They particularly fall down in the softer, subtone area. This is used so much in recording, and in the theater, and too many sax libraries seemed to have been sampled at full blast -- the worst of them sounding like kazoos -- and they don't blend together well with other instruments, even in the same libraries. A decent sax, library, please. And vocals. I could live without the upteenth flute or guitar library for one of those. (Also, now that I think of it, the choices fo banjo and mandolin libraries seem to be pretty slim pickin's -- if you'll pardon the expression. It seems that the only way to get them is to buy a big library with lots of other instruments -- mostly guitars -- that I don't need.)

Unfortunately, that's the whole problem with samples. Everything pretty much sounds the same. Boring, repetitive, and same old same old same old. If you want my personal opinion I hate samples in the context of old fashioned sample playback.

Exceptions are solo Strad and solo Gofriller, which use samples but apply a very sophisticated mechanism to seamlessly blend note and dynamics transitions, so you can play soft to loud, on any note, blend from note to note, impart various dynamic changes and articulations during the note, change vibrato and impart portamento whenever you like, because the sophisicated mechanisms allow that expression.

All other sample libraries do not provide this, with exception to the new trumpet VST that was coming out (using the same technology that Solo strad and gofriller were using) that is also very good.

Only something with the ability to actually change dynamics within a note and to seamlessly blend from note to note like a real instrument does, will offer the sound you are after. As said before, good examples are solo Strad and Gofriller (wait until the new strings are out as they are now discontinued, the new strings should be better). Another example is Wallander Instruments (WIVI). These instruments allow you to play *any* note you want and to seamlessly blend dynamics and note transitions effortlessly.

Old fashioned sample libraries are not going to give you realism. If you think they are then I think you had better forget it. It's as simple as that. I hate to rain on the proverbial parade, but that is the stone cold truth. Hopefully Garritan and all the other major league players will continue to develop instruments that we can actually play. I know Garritan is on to something good with ARIA (the built in ability to use "sample modelling"). And of course Wallander, with his amazing resynthesis (which uses spectral morphing harmonic partial interpolation synthesis (SMHPIS) and it does the job so damn well that even with my much jaded ears I can't honestly tell a difference between WIVI and the real thing.

Ben

[rpearl]

4. A classical guitar with the controls of the Gofriller*()



Hajo


Heck, just a good classical guitar...please?

[rbowser-]

Brsmith - Gary's company didn't design Ambience, but I can help you out with something vital you apparently don't know:

"...When I come back to Ambience I have no idea which preset I choose.."

Like all plugins, at the top of the Ambience GUI (Graphic User Interface) - you have the choice to save the settings you have set up. Type in an appropriate name, and Save. Now it's always available to you for the current as well as future projects. You just load the selection by the name you gave it.

If you're using a DAW, the settings in Ambience will come up automatically with the project.

Randy B.

[Raymond62]

Last night Gary and I had a little discussion about the marketing strategy. In my messages about this (here at this thread), and in my chatlines I expressed the differences in my points of view of presenting things versus really getting the products available.

I don't really know what the NAMM is about, but in my point of view the fact is that when you present something to the world, with all gadgets of presentation, the product must be on the shelf and ready for shipping. Announcements aren't ready made products, I know. They are promises and some sort of telling the world that "this or that" is about to be developed or almost ready.

Since I joined this forum, things got a bit puzzled for me. I entered this community thinking that GOS was available (I heard some great demos). GOS wasn't available anymore. So next best was GPO only. Later I bought the Strad and in my mind I opted for the Gofriller. In time I've got the Strad, but both products aren't available anymore,

I saw announcements and huge articles about the Steinway (also the success story at NAMM) and thought that it was ready for shipping. I saw all sorts of things passing by, but they aren't reality yet.

I know it takes a lot of work to make it all work, converting the GPO to play with the ARIA player, to make the Garritan drag-and-drop-reverb work(when I saw that I said to myself Halleluja) , I was in heaven when I noticed that GPO was about to become GPOA...... (I've got the impression that the quality of the GOS was coming back into this)

I am not attacking Gary, he is really the best guy in the field, but we differ in this. No more promises, announcements, just do it! I wish you, Gary and your team all programming power in the world, and don't worry I won't leave you. It is still the best product, also considering the price tag.

With regards,

[ejr]

Unfortunately, that's the whole problem with samples. Everything pretty much sounds the same. Boring, repetitive, and same old same old same old. If you want my personal opinion I hate samples in the context of old fashioned sample playback.



I wholeheartedly agree with you. Sampling was a great idea when it first appeared because it was better than the alternatives at the time. But I think the future lies in virtual instruments. One reason I use JABB is because it has so many different trumpet and trombones + several different mutes for each. But I'd much rather have single trumpet and trombone virtual instruments that varied naturally, based on my playing technique (and to which I could apply any possible mute). Something along the idea of Real Guitar -- where I can play piano chords and the instrument revoices them as they would be played on the guitar. (It shows me what it is doing, and gives me a number of ways to alter it, and a number of different ways to play it.) Not THE best guitar samples. And it doesn't allow for guitars that can be tuned below the low E, like the JABB guitar. But they've got the right idea.

I can see a future where we will no longer need a sampler like Kontakt, dozens of sample libraries and thousands of samples, but rather a few very versitle virtual instruments: strings, winds, keyboards, percussion, strummed or picked instruments, and the odd specialty instruments that don't fit into any of these categories. The focus should not just be on getting it to sound like a live instrument, but being able to play it as easily and expressively as a live instrument.

[Hannes_F]

They are promises and some sort of telling the world that "this or that" is about to be developed or almost ready.


Raymond,

my young friend, this is all because you are so new here, grasshopper. (hehe) :D :p

(Do you notice I enjoy our conversation?) :o :wow:

In the time since I registered in this forum (and this is not so long ago) Garritan released
- GPO 2.0
- JaBB
- CaMB
- Garritan Strad
- Garritan Gofriller
- maybe some Refills or packages more that I don't currently remember

All of them were announced and discussed before, this is part of the release. And all of them were then released, as real life products, no dreams.

Any company needs to rise expectations before a release, it is part of the marketing and spreads the news. And it is only good to ask the customers frequently about what they really want, as long as the big plan stays beeing healthy. Clients then that say 'don't talk, release already' are also part of it. All that builds up to a really nice community event. It is energy that a company needs for being alive. Because we all are humans, no machines.

Motivation energy is the keyword.

Best
Hannes

[Raymond62]

Raymond,
my young friend, this is all because you are so new here, grasshopper. (hehe) :D :p (Do you notice I enjoy our conversation?) :o :wow:

I still don't agree. How do you get the idea of a grasshopper? Those times were long gone, jumping around in the meadows......;)
Asking potential customers what they really want is one thing and very beneficial for the community (developers and customers). Presenting things at an exhibition and NOT having them on the shelf is another. The world is filled with promises, but little has become true.

Since we never agree with this, let's end this discussion...

[Michael_uk]

Thanks for the suggestions. We have developed such a product "Sibelius Choral" but it only works for Sibelius. Perhaps we can make a lighter choir set but I am concerned many will be disappointed because it does not have all he full features. What do others feel about such a set?

Gary
I think this is a good idea. I feel many people would like this option until the full choir is ready.

I'm sure your marketing would inform that this doesn't contain the full features of the full choir which is being developed so people would know what they're getting. This would definitely work for me :)

[Garritan]

Last night Gary and I had a little discussion about the marketing strategy. In my messages about this (here at this thread), and in my chatlines I expressed the differences in my points of view of presenting things versus really getting the products available.

I don't really know what the NAMM is about, but in my point of view the fact is that when you present something to the world, with all gadgets of presentation, the product must be on the shelf and ready for shipping. Announcements aren't ready made products, I know. They are promises and some sort of telling the world that "this or that" is about to be developed or almost ready.

Raymond,

I tried to clarify about product news on chat yesterday but perhaps I did not communicate right. It seems you are interpreting all product news as though they are or should be immediately available.

When we publicly post about upcoming products there are generally three types of announcements:
1. Tell-Us-What-You-Want: Like this thread. We have begun development and want your input
This means we are at the start - like here: We've begun porting GPO-JABB-CoMB and want your help. No timetable is mentioned.
2. News Announcement: This means a product is substantially complete and want to tell the world that we expect to have a product on the market. Sometimes good-faith (and vague) time estimates are made and often we deliver within months. Sometimes we get last minute suggestions to make our products better. And sometimes unexpected things happen that are beyond our control (like the problems we had last year with the Kontakt Player, e.g. Giga3, Vista, etc.).
3. Release Announcements: This means the product is complete. The product is actually shipping or in manufacture and shipping is imminent. As with the Steinway - it is in the manufacture process.
We posted this thread to ask what you want in a product (see No. 1 above) and invite input. At the start of this thread I requested "This is not a thread to flame or digress about any current shortcomings; rather its about bettering the libraries for the future and letting us know what you want. Specific suggestions would help most." Asking what users want does not mean the product is imminent

Community involvement is a cornerstone of what we do and I ask often and provide continuous updates.I don't think you find this kind of transparency often.Many companies have a total blackout of information before they ship and do not invite input or updates.

If anyone has a better approach or prefers a total blackout until shipping, let me know.

My Best,

Gary

[Garritan]

In the time since I registered in this forum (and this is not so long ago) Garritan released
- GPO 2.0
- JaBB
- CaMB
- Garritan Strad
- Garritan Gofriller
- maybe some Refills or packages more that I don't currently remember

All of them were announced and discussed before, this is part of the release. And all of them were then released, as real life products, no dreams.

Any company needs to rise expectations before a release, it is part of the marketing and spreads the news. And it is only good to ask the customers frequently about what they really want, as long as the big plan stays beeing healthy. Clients then that say 'don't talk, release already' are also part of it. All that builds up to a really nice community event. It is energy that a company needs for being alive. Because we all are humans, no machines.

Motivation energy is the keyword.

Best
Hannes

Ah, you are very wise, mighty Jedi! ;)

Thanks for listing what has been done in the past two years. Sometimes it seems like we are a whirlwind standing still. But now that you enumerate what has been done, it is edifying to see that we have made considerable progress.

All my best,

Gary Garritan

[Michael_uk]

..... or prefers a total blackout until shipping, let me know.

My Best,

Gary
I doubt any of us want this. This is what concerned me about this thread, by which I mean that you might consider this very option.

Personally I favour your continued announcements and updates.

[Andrew Koenig]

I would like the option to store the samples in compressed form, and decompress them when loading them.

I presume that samples will be played from RAM, in which case the extra CPU time used to decompress the samples before playback may well be regained by the decreased elapsed time needed to read the samples from disk.

Alternatively, tune the sample player (and sample storage format) to work well with the native Windows file compression -- in which case one could just say that the samples are stored in a compressed folder and let the operating system worry about it. Don't know if MacOS offers a similar facility, but if it does, it would be worth using there as well, of course.

[Strangeman]

I'd like any future products to be delivered with an extra 12 hours in each day so that I can catch up with developments !

[Raymond62]

Raymond,
I tried to clarify about product news on chat yesterday but perhaps I did not communicate right. It seems you are interpreting all product news as though they are or should be immediately available.

As I said in the reply to Hannes. We have different opinions about this. Let us stop this discussion and go back to work or enjoying the weekend.

[AlanPerkins]

On the topic of the choir:

Is it possible to separate the choir from the vocalisation?

If so, you could release the choir with the ooh and aah type stuff and then later release an extension called the vocalizer or phenomenal phonemator or something.

[Garritan]

Again,

I asked "I want to bring you as much as possible and your input is valuable. This is not a thread to flame or digress about any current shortcomings; rather its about bettering the libraries for the future and letting us know what you want. Specific suggestions would help most."

Sorry I had to have a few posts deleted as it was getting off topic. Please start a new thread in the appropriate section if one has some particular issues with one of the libraries. Please keep this thread focused on what you would like when we bring our libraries to the new ARIA player.

Gary

[karvasika]

I'm very sorry. I wasn't trying to digress, I thought I was helping. I guess it's better for me not to post, when I just cause trouble and confusion. I'm sorry once again. :(

[Garritan]

On the topic of the choir:

Is it possible to separate the choir from the vocalisation?

If so, you could release the choir with the ooh and aah type stuff and then later release an extension called the vocalizer or phenomenal phonemator or something.Good idea Alan. The Sibelius Choir was an "Ooh, Ahh and Eeh" library and we could do something similar sooner. Then later the "phenomenal phonemator" :D Perhaps we can poll the membership and see what everyone would like.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Gary

[Garritan]

I would like the option to store the samples in compressed form, and decompress them when loading them.

I presume that samples will be played from RAM, in which case the extra CPU time used to decompress the samples before playback may well be regained by the decreased elapsed time needed to read the samples from disk.

Alternatively, tune the sample player (and sample storage format) to work well with the native Windows file compression -- in which case one could just say that the samples are stored in a compressed folder and let the operating system worry about it. Don't know if MacOS offers a similar facility, but if it does, it would be worth using there as well, of course.Andrew,

We have the option of doing RAM based or disk streaming. And we will offer the samples in compressed form. The Steinway for instances uses a lossless compression scheme.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Gary

[imagegod]

Good idea Alan. The Sibelius Choir was an "Ooh, Ahh and Eeh" library and we could do something similar sooner. Then later the "phenomenal phonemator" :D Perhaps we can poll the membership and see what everyone would like.Gary

I'm finishing a novel about music that has a wordless choir in it. If I could write a piece using your player and some simple choir samples, it would be perfect...and very much appreciated.
Just one man's opinion.
Thanks!

[RickMcGowan]

I like the idea of moving to sfz format. (I like Kontakt player OK, but I heartily dislike NI's licensing & protection.)

I hope you will have microtuning at a global level (per setup) as well as allowing different instruments to over-ride that default (per setup) with their own separate tuning.

I hope that users can add their own new instruments (even if it means they have to do some hand-editing or other technical details). And maybe you'll be able to package individual instruments as well, that people can buy/download and just plug & go.

I would like to see a mandolin or two, the whole family of recorders, perhaps a lute or two, for performance of baroque & earlier music. Perhaps vielle & viola da gamba family...

(Oh, yeah, if you have trouble finding a good sounding old mandolin, let me know...:))

[raz.bari.88]

I'm not sure if this has been said or not, but it would be nice to be able to reprogram some of the controls, like reprogram volume to the standard way instead of mod-wheel, or reassign it to pitch wheel even.

The next part really isn't adding to it, but how will the upgrade to ARIA be delivered to the masses, one giant download or on solid media? If it is going to be a huge download, will there be any way to download it with a bit torrent client?

[boogielicious]

Gary,

Again, thanks for interacting with the customers. I've only been using JABB for a couple of months, so I don't feel qualified to ask for too much. But I do have one suggestion:

Don't make the ARIA interface too different from KP2. If we have to relearn the interface, then people will get frustrated. I will use Windows Vista as the example. We all got very used to the way Windows organized things to the point that it was intuitive when we got a new program. Then Vista changed everything. It really ticked off a lot of loyal customers.

ARIA will have new and better features, but if we could find those features in a similar way, the learning curve will be shorter.

Thanks,

Scott

[karvasika]

In Kontakt Player, there's always this popup when loading an instrument. This often causes trouble and I don't have any other plugins that show the progress of loading this way. I wish there was some other way ARIA shows the progress of loading.. dunno how, but not something else than a popup.

[ersteller]

Gary,
Thank you a lot for these interaction with us!

I'd like in GPO keyswitches (at least pizzicato...) in the plr samples of the strings.
And perhaps more plr Violas.

THANK YOU for your great work!
Francesco

[karvasika]

A cymbal-instrument that can be programmed easily to any length of cymbal rolls, swells, hits, etc etc, with a long tail and a keyswitch to damp it when wanted.

[Garritan]

Thanks all for taking the time to let us know what you want. May of the suggestions are very helpful. Keep them coming!

Gary Garritan

[Paul Stutt]

Gary,
Personally, I would like to see GPO brought into the 21st century and include a drum kit. Many contemporary artists record using orchestral instruments behind a band. I realise this is where my own interests lay and will not be to the tastes of everyone.

Maybe a VST insert section within the player. It would reduce the time I spend on creating sub-groups hehe.

[karvasika]

Also some boomy edgy big majestic percussion instruments that are often used in film scores.. even some basic ones, that make this awfully familiar Hollywood sound in any modern blockbuster.

[Aquarius]

I wouldn´t mind some basic presets containing convolution reverb as well as chaining of IRs depending on which ensemble you´re choosing

For example a chamber-orchestra-preset including the instruments, and containing convolution reverb as well as chaining of IRs required

I would gladly use these as templates and you would get a basic nice "3D-orchestral-like" sound right out of the box.

Best wishes,

Thomas

[Little Boy Blu]

Gary,

Thank you for asking and caring about what we want. You always go above and beyond with regards to the wants of the musical community. I can't express how much I appreciate what you do for us :). Thanks!

Here are my wishes for the Aria controls...

I would like consistency when it comes to how instruments are played. In other words, velocity for percussive instruments based on key velocity (percussion, keyboards, harp, etc. - already in place - don't change). All wind/brass/ even strings (gasp) with same playing style. Gofriller keeps coming up in the posts - and I agree - I love how playable Gofriller is.
Same playing techniques for Gofriller and Strad with Aria )(~(PLEEEEEEEASE! Can you tell I love playing Gofriller? Consistency in playing technique again the key - I still struggle with getting the results I want from Strad when I get them easily with Gofriller)
Auto switch samples for repeated noted without pedlas, key switches, etc. I still struggle with easily anihilating the shot-gun effect for things such as snare rolls and tremelos. This is really true with notation programs (I use Sibelius, but do post prod in Sonar).
Someone else mentioned a good sforzando (sfz) technique or key-switch (first prefered) - I'm for this as well as a good forte-piano (fp)
Option to switch playback method without having to do CC remapping manually (for those who want/need remapping from mod to velocity without translator or for easy integration with other MIDI programs). In other words, if I don't want to use mod wheel for velocities and stick with good old fashioned key velocity for quick mock ups, I can do that.
Though not a control issue, I would like to easily see to what channel an instrument is routed.
PIPE DREAMS (my personal dream items, but by no means a necessity) To go along with above, maybe a control option to use a breath controller without remapping CC (I know not many out there, but for realistic winds, this is great)
Recognize patch change events - and faster than something like Bandstand (which was a deplorable waste of money - sorry - I know we aren't supposed to flame, but I read that as for Garritan's good stuff :D)PS - I also vote for resizable font!

Thanks again,

Trevor Rutkowski

[Michael_uk]

A cymbal-instrument that can be programmed easily to any length of cymbal rolls, swells, hits, etc etc, with a long tail and a keyswitch to damp it when wanted.
Ohhh .. I second this one.

I've asked for this before. Here's hoping.

[Skysaw]

Speaking of which, I'd love to see a damping option for all percussion instruments.

[schneb]

Since this thread is so popular, perhaps it would be best to break it into to parts? Example...

Control you would like to have in ARIA player.
and...
Future instrument considerations for GPO, JABB and CoMB libraries.

[L0W]

Adding to votes to support the things already requested and one or two that haven't been mentioned yet:


24-bit sampling throughout please (with 16-bit alternative for space savers) and absolute fidelity through the process of preparing the library so that the sounds rendered at the end are as crystal clear and bright as the original recordings
while not a fan of too much bow noise, I like to hear instrument body noise in correct proportion - eg pedals are audible in a piano, when playing pianissimo, so they should be in a library - this is used to great effect in one or two 'other' piano libraries and could be extended to all instruments where playing generates collateral noise. Maybe have 'body/mechanical noise' as an on-off option for each instrument. Maybe have intrumentalist noise too (sheet turning, chair noise) - all the things that make sample library production companies turn in their graves ("no do another 'A' we got a bit of chair noise first time round"), but might add to the effect of realism.
proper solo monophonic instruments that do legato like Strad
programming that reacts to rapid successions of notes and does something clever to stop machine gun effect - even two alternating samples doesn't sound right
programming that reacts to keyboard playing to automatically detect trills, incidentals, tremolo, etc as appropriate. Perhaps a series of onscreen switches to switch individual auto-detect elements off
all midi-controls to be user-assignable with a right-click and 'learn' and patchable to real instrument controls (so eg modwheel on screen could be learnt as cc21, and patched to vibrato, sustain could be used to control something other than 'attack' removal/sustain). Default set of midi controls always loaded up should be user-configurable (so eg my keyboard aftertouch always creates 'swell' once I have configured it). Do not assume people want to use keyswitching so provide a midi cc method of patch switching as well.
thanks for all the programming/modelling/performance control etc that goes on, but occasionally all I want is that when I hit a note, that I hear just what sounds like a recording of that note played by that instrument. Perhaps a single 'untouched/ unprocessed /unprogrammed/ unlooped DI' patch for each instrument. For all brass instruments as minimum do provide unlooped patches.
customisable interface so that size (and text as others have said) and components can be hidden/resized to suit user workflow
gradated sustain (not on/off) and soft pedal for pianos, damping pedal/control for other instruments as relevant
something other than the Kontakt method of setting how you expect the sustain pedal to behave
ok harp midi packets aren't hard, but aren't a walk in the park either - something to enable harp glissandos at a press of a button/key please. Similar functionality for other instrument 'cliches' (eg rips)
intelligent reaction to pitch bend to kick off realistic bent samples, rather than bend the note (original sample) itself which is much harder to get to sound realistic
since precious few apps seem to have this (only Logic?), could there ever be a way of mapping tempo via the Aria player into midi-recording (ie being able to 'conduct' with key tapping)?
more natural overblowing on wind instruments, resulting in octave change (intended/unintended) where relevant
complete control over vibrato rate and depth
carry on with the CC1 type modelling, but in ensembles start volume at zero/near zero as ensembles can almost create the illusion of starting volume at zero
carry on with the keydown/keyup for percussion, etc - that has helped me a lot with rolls, tremeloes, etc.
like multis, but be able to load up a whole orchestra (with alternatives), at a click, and only use 10% of CPU
templates with clever programming and settings to simulate at the click of a drop down list - eg 'simulation hall orchestra' this tries to set everything so that it sounds like an orchestra in a hall (reverb, eq, pan, volumes, etc). This simulation mode might also be set to prevent players playing 'impossible' notes/combinations (eg impossible double stops, nonexistent harmonics), 'modern computer game orchestra' - here probably clean undamped reverb, 'smiley' eq, direct instruments can be heard, 'am dram orchestra' all instruments slightly out of tune, ensembles not playing together, occasional bum note (frequency set by cc69) ....the list goes on
keyboard splits so that different instruments can be set up on different part of keyboard (old as the hills, but sometimes useful for live performance).
a big second to the automated quintet suggestion. This needs to be able to direct the 5 notes to 5 separate midi channels and make a best guess when <5 notes are played. This feature alone would save me dozens of hours.
'eq' matching (a bit like Freefilter) but rather than just match eq in a gross and clumsy unnatural way, Aria listens to a piece of music, then sets the individual instruments up in such a way that the output matches as closely as technically feasible without artifacts, the eq and sound of the original. DPDan might be out of a job, but I and other cloth ears like me would be in hog's heaven!

[dr_mcmoose]

I think many sound libraries are continuing to make progress on the following, but there's still room for improvement :)

Improved Legato
Repeated short notes (e.g. staccato/marcato)
Vibrato control for each instrument

**Orchestral Saxophones please**

[darrob]

Just to add to the percussion based requests, Timpani with sticks or some control to make the Timpani sound as if it has been hit with a stick rather than the mallet.

Cheers...

Daz :0)

[holderofthehorns]

Banjo - Single notes and Hammer ons, pull offs. Gibson Mastertone.
Mandolin - Single notes, we can build our own chord. Gibson F5 or F9.
Martin D-28 guitar (strums and single notes) standard tuning.

American instruments for American music.
Bluegrass is gathering quite a following.
We already have upright bass and the Strad makes a great fiddle.

[Michael_uk]

Banjo - Single notes and Hammer ons, pull offs. Gibson Mastertone.
Mandolin - Single notes, we can build our own chord. Gibson F5 or F9.
Martin D-28 guitar (strums and single notes) standard tuning.

American instruments for American music.
Bluegrass is gathering quite a following.
We already have upright bass and the Strad makes a great fiddle.
I second also the Banjo and Mandolin.

[holderofthehorns]

Maybe a Classic Bluegrass product like JABB.
You could call it BABB.

[raz.bari.88]

I vote for a rock and metal library. You may call it Rock And Metal Band on Overdrive )(~

[gregoryc]

Like some previous posters, I would like all the instruments in GPO to have Strad-like controls (especially vibrato, if that's possible with the GPO samples).

Also, overall I like the Kontakt player, so don't feel that everyone hates that interface when designing the controls for ARIA. Of course if ARIA has a lot of extra usability, I can hardly wait...

A final consideration for me is keeping the hardware requirements as reasonable as possible.

Thanks for listening.


Greg

[schneb]

I don't know why I forgot about this, and Gary, expect a followup email for this capability. But first a little background.

There used to be a keyboard instrument called an Optigan (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=Onx&q=Optigan&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi), that used rotating records that had looped musical passages in the various keys. Because the records were spinning on one axle, no matter when you pressed a key, each passage would be in sync with all the others. They also included bridges and passage transitions.

I have a friend in Holland who had one that he used all the time for his toy theater performances (http://www.vischmarktpapierentheater.nl/Winter_2007/Splash.html). Unfortunately, it died on him and they no longer make the instrument. He asked me for my help to try and get these passages into GarageBand, however, I did not have the ability to keep the passages in sync.

An acquaintance of his took all the little records and digitized them. He was kind enough to send me a copy of all the samples from the Optigan. The collection contains 45 genres to choose from. I have placed one of the genre sample folders where you can download and listen to what I am talking about here (http://www.schneblin.com/misc/Optigan.zip).

So here is my big request for Aria. The ability to import samples of the same length and for Aria to keep them in sync with one another as if they are on the same spinning axle.

[imagegod]

Adding to votes to support the things already requested and one or two that haven't been mentioned yet:
ok harp midi packets aren't hard, but aren't a walk in the park either - something to enable harp glissandos at a press of a button/key please. Similar functionality for other instrument 'cliches' (eg rips)
like multis, but be able to load up a whole orchestra (with alternatives), at a click, and only use 10% of CPU

karvasika: "A cymbal-instrument that can be programmed easily to any length of cymbal rolls, swells, hits, etc etc, with a long tail and a keyswitch to damp it when wanted."

Boy, do I agree with these suggestions. Keep it simple...make it easy to use...pre-program what can be pre-programmed, without interfering with true artistic inspiration/creation.

And thanks for asking!

[David (plogue)]

So here is my big request for Aria. The ability to import samples of the same length and for Aria to keep them in sync with one another as if they are on the same spinning axle.
[/SIZE]

Hi.
This is a feature ive implemented in Plogue Bidule a long time ago in the "Boboche Looper" module.
(when you switch loops it applies to the new loop a new start point corresponding to where the previous loop was playing at)

But tried your mp3, but they dont appear to loop properly. Maybe thats due to your mp3 encoding?

As far as putting this feature in Aria. You are giving me ideas :) Of course the easy trick is to play all sounds at the same time and crossfade between each of them using the key velocities as volume for each loop.

[venzon]

.possibility to set ensembles the way they do in Wallander at the moment so that for example a 4-note-chord played on a midi controller will be split properly to a string quartet -> basically easy ways to play small or large ensembles in a live-situation so that there won't be any unnecessary doublings etc.

I'd like to second this.

[karvasika]

But tried your mp3, but they dont appear to loop properly. Maybe thats due to your mp3 encoding?


I tried to loop them in Ableton Live too. I think these are just digitized files of the sounds without any preprocessing, they all seemed to have some extra space at the beginning.

[schneb]

David, karvasika,

The original files are from the AIFF Apple Loops format. OK, here are the original files to give a try...

http://mysite.verizon.net/res752dy/mazurka.zip

Let me know if they stay in sync for you. They do for me in GarageBand.

[David (plogue)]

David, karvasika,

The original files are from the AIFF Apple Loops format. OK, here are the original files to give a try...

http://mysite.verizon.net/res752dy/mazurka.zip

Let me know if they stay in sync for you. They do for me in GarageBand.

Yes they do, although i do believe there are clicks in the loops.
But still lots of fun to play live.

Thanks for the files!

[Godfrey]

Another vote for banjo - it's practically essential for Dixieland jazz.

Will there ever be a solo viola companion to Strad and Gofriller?

[Styxx]

Gary, did you have an illistra, ell a strrrr ... a ill ... picture, or a small rendering? Scratch on a cave wall? Sharp stick on a dry dusty road? Sky writing? Goodyear Dirigible ad? Super Bowl commercial snippet? Of this ARIA player? Or ezz it under classified sealed in a vault hidden somewhere in area 51 where only a few aliens have knowledge of its existence? :D

I'll betcha do! The question is ... deal ... or no deal?

[holderofthehorns]

I'm ready for the freedom of the SFZ format.

I can see it now... Garritan stuff with text files underneath.
You mean I could layer anything I want on top of anything else?

We could have Oboe attacks and Clarinet decays?
More appropriately, Viola attacks and Violin decays?
Trombone attacks and trumpet decays?

NV attacks and V decays. OK, sign me up.
)(~~|

My head hurts just thinking about it.

[LHall]

I haven't read the entire thread so sorry if this was covered.

JABB: when I'm arranging, I'd like to be able to work first in sections, trumpets, altos, tenors, etc in polyphonic mode. So, for me a few general purpose brass patches would be very handy for the writing stage. I realize they wouldn't have the realistic articulations the mono instruments have, but they would be handy for the writing stage.

Aside from that: all monophonic instruments with the same voodoo of Strad and Gofriller - landmark instruments.

[karvasika]

Possibility to overdub note velocities (=timbre) through a CC-channel (=with a controller).

In notation software you usually write the notes to the software, so the velocity, controlling timbre, often gets forgotten. You can rewrite it by hand, but it would be awesome, if you could overdub this through a CC-channel too, just like you can modwheel.

Maybe one CC could control the velocity so that if present, it would override the actual note velocity. Otherwise note velocity would be used.

I'd love to be able to dub this too to make even believable performances with string instruments.

[dr_mcmoose]

A feature where you can create your own keyswitch patch. *please*

[ejr]

Regarding the banjo and mandolin instruments that I and others requested ... To be really useful, 2 versions of each may be needed: a finger picked instrument (for monophonic melodies) and a strummed instrument (ideally, one that uses scripting to translate chords played on the keyboard to the voicing that would be used on the strummed instrument, the way "Real Guitar" does). I have a finger picked banjo instrument and it takes a lot of work to make it sound realistic on strummed chords.

[schneb]

I think an entire package can be made for pick and strum instruments alone. It can include various brands and styles of acoustic, electric and acoustic/electric guitars, Dobro, Slide Dobro, Pedal Steel, Banjo, Mandolin, Lute, Sitar, etc. The package could be called P&S (pick and strum)

[Godfrey]

I think an entire package can be made for pick and strum instruments alone. It can include various brands and styles of acoustic, electric and acoustic/electric guitars, Dobro, Slide Dobro, Pedal Steel, Banjo, Mandolin, Lute, Sitar, etc. The package could be called P&S (pick and strum)

I'd buy it. Especially if it were set up with some intelligence about strings and frets, to damp certain notes automatically when another one on the same string was played (hammer-ons, etc.) - kind of like legato on the Gofriller Cello, but in multiple "zones".

Though then there would probably need to be some way to indicate that a note was being played on a different string, so I don't know if it would be more trouble than it's worth.

[schneb]

so I don't know if it would be more trouble than it's worth.
Trouble? Yes, which is why no one has done it, and what would set the Garritan version apart as the only one to offer them properly. Seems like a good motivation to me! :)

[schneb]

For those asking questions regarding the need for loops that stay in sync with one another as you play--I mentioned the Optigan and that it used rotating discs. However, I had no examples at the time to post what it sounded like. Well, I found some Christmas music that was played on the Optigan, so here are three good examples.

http://www.optigan.com/sounds/largo/chestnuts.mp3
http://www.optigan.com/sounds/largo/rudolph.mp3

Here is a promo for the Optigan using the Big Band samples.
http://www.optigan.com/sounds/largo/promo.mp3

[frivo]

I don't know of this wish is proposed befor (I have not time to read the whole thread).

But it would be fine if we could read the names on the diffrent instruments in a drum-set, e.g. by holding the mouse over the keyboard. Now we have to read in the manual that follow the library.

Similar with the Key Switch, we could read the function of it by holding the mouse over the key.

[karvasika]

I don't know of this wish is proposed befor (I have not time to read the whole thread).

But it would be fine if we could read the names on the diffrent instruments in a drum-set, e.g. by holding the mouse over the keyboard. Now we have to read in the manual that follow the library.

Similar with the Key Switch, we could read the function of it by holding the mouse over the key.

Oh this is a good idea!!!

[schneb]

...read the names on the different instruments in a drum-set, e.g. by holding the mouse over the keyboard.
I agree as well! What a great idea!

[earlwgreen]

It's been a while since I posted but wanted to add a few thoughts.

I would love to see Garritan create a "Nashville sound" sample set for fiddle, bass, Dobro, pedal steel, mandolin and banjo.

I seems more of these instruments are being used in many music styles now. I can see many cases where Country music would use the GPO and these other instruments to create a complete project. The pedal steel is one of the hardest to copy and one of the hardest instruments to learn.

Concerning the choir set, I posted this on another thread but also copied it here.


"Being an opera singer and also love to sing pop/jazz, I would love to have more individual voices that can be blended during mixing.

It would be nice to have maybe 3 different types of voices for each part.

I pop music background vocals are sometimes sung in prime unison. A soprano may sing soprano, alto and tenor. The Alto may sing soprano, alto, tenor and so forth with the tenor and bass. This really can increase the overall sound when blended.

I don't mind a lite version as long as the final product equals the best that's out there at the time."

[karvasika]

With a good real programmable cymbal-instrument, well, why not the whole drum kit played with mallets (for this kinda subtle accompanying... u know... lots of rolls, some smooth toms, soft cymbals, etc etc, very acoustic stuff).

[raweber]

I picked up JABB in the go-round this last Christmas, and have spent many a happy hour since playing it with my WX-5 wind controller. I love the fact that I can plug and go - it doesn't matter if I'm using a keyboard with CC#1 or my WX with CC#2 - it's all the same to the software. I haven't figured out why I can't get the sustain pedal to make the patch perform legato, but that's the subject for a different thread.

Anyway, all of that to say - please keep this easy interoporability for wind synth players. It's a remarkably intuitive and efficient way to enter data for a variety of sustaining instruments.

The only other thing I would like to emphasise (everything else has been said so well, already) is that Garritan has built a reputation, no, a legacy, by bringing quality digital music to the masses by having the best price/performance ratio of any product on the market. So many who could never afford to render decent copies of their music with the other various market offerings (and would likely grow bored or frustrated with the process) have been given the tools to create their own masterpieces. Please keep this in mind as you set your price points for future products.

Thanks, as always, for listening, Rob

[schneb]

This just came up in a post at Apple Discussions for GarageBand and I thought, hey no one is doing this (as far as I know), so why not Aria to take up the opportunity?

Now many of you would find this anathema, but bear with me.

It would be great to have a setting in Aria where the keyboard becomes an activator for chords. For example, when Aria sees, say C4, it plays a C4 chord. Now, why would half a decent musician wish such a thing? Well, for one, this is how an Accordion is partly played. It would also be good for the novice who cannot play chords and actually play an orchestra with one hand. I, for one, do not have the faintest idea how to play a Dbm7 on a keyboard. On a guitar? Yes. Keyboard? No.

Anyway, it seems to me that this would be a simple thing to implement. All that is required is a key assignment for each major chord, a keyswitch assignment (for choosing seventh, minor, major, etc.), and the internal code to play accordionly (pun intended). ;)

[GDG]

***Then later the "phenomenal phonemator" :D ***
Gary

Gary, contact your trademark attorney NOW! )(~

;)

[GDG]

As we work at programming our libraries for the ARIA player, and here's your chance to let us know what you would like to see. We'll have some more capabilities and features. We may even add some more samples to some of the libraries.

I want to bring you as much as possible and your input is valuable. This is not a thread to flame or digress about any current shortcomings; rather its about bettering the libraries for the future and letting us know what you want. Specific suggestions would help most.

So let us know what you would like to see and we'll consider it and see what we can do for future editions of the libraries.

Thanks in advance,

Gary Garritan

Heckelphone, and more sarrusophones! :)

We (the San Jose Wind Symphony (http://www.sjws.org/)) performed a work yesterday for tympani and band called "Raise the Roof" by Daugherty that included a couple of interesting effects. The works starts with the tympanist playing a cymbal roll, where the cymbal is lying concave-side up on a tympani, while he sweeps the tympani pedal up and down (changing the resonance of the cymbal sound). Interesting, and possibly useful. Second, the work had a section where all the tympani (I think the work calls for around 8) were played with hand slaps, like a set of overgrown conga drums. Very interesting sound, and worth sampling :)

And of course, the already-discussed Early Music library (with lutes, recorders, crumhorns, shawms, etc.) would be really interesting.

Grant

[DarwinKopp]

We (the San Jose Wind Symphony (http://www.sjws.org/)) performed a work yesterday for tympani and band called "Raise the Roof" by Daugherty that included a couple of interesting effects. The works starts with the tympanist playing a cymbal roll, where the cymbal is lying concave-side up on a tympani, while he sweeps the tympani pedal up and down (changing the resonance of the cymbal sound). Interesting, and possibly useful. Second, the work had a section where all the tympani (I think the work calls for around 8) were played with hand slaps, like a set of overgrown conga drums. Very interesting sound, and worth sampling :)

I've written a little brass symphony that calls for the timpani to be played with tennis balls and then wire brushes. As you can imagine, I've not been able to sequence these exact sounds. I would be nice to have everything imaginable under the sun available, but unless the technique is something fairly standard, it likely won't happen.

Maybe Gary could work up a "non-conventional techniques" library for many of the orchestral instruments as a separate package, including things like multiphonics, snap pizzacato, bowing the tailpiece, keying without sounding, water gongs, cymbal harmonics, prepared piano, prepared harp, bowed vibes, etc., etc.,etc. I'm not sure how successful such a product would be commercially, but I'd buy it. :)

[raz.bari.88]

I've written a little brass symphony that calls for the timpani to be played with tennis balls and then wire brushes. As you can imagine, I've not been able to sequence these exact sounds. I would be nice to have everything imaginable under the sun available, but unless the technique is something fairly standard, it likely won't happen.

Maybe Gary could work up a "non-conventional techniques" library for many of the orchestral instruments as a separate package, including things like multiphonics, snap pizzacato, bowing the tailpiece, keying without sounding, water gongs, cymbal harmonics, prepared piano, prepared harp, bowed vibes, etc., etc.,etc. I'm not sure how successful such a product would be commercially, but I'd buy it. :)

Samples of wind instrument mouthpieces, mouth gargles, falling objects....

Trumpets as percussion instruments :wow:

[DarwinKopp]

one of my accompanists told me while at Eastman they were subjected to a terribly out of tune piano in one of the dorm (i think) lounges. so one night they used the maintenance elevator to take the piano to the roof, and pushed it off, smashing it to bits. One of the people involved was a composition major, who then wrote a piece based around the...um, 'resonance' of the piano hitting the ground...

I had a similar experience as a young lad. I once witnessed a couple of guys moving an old upright piano on the back of a pickup truck up a steep hill. It apparently wasn't tied down very well and, of course, as soon as it turned the corner, the piano flipped out the side of the truck and smashed into a thousand pieces not ten feet from where I stood! I remember it making a really impressive sound. :D

[Marc-Aurel]

I'm a fulltime professional composer, so i have not much time to post here and i am not really interested in all of the technical mumbo jumbo.

I just want to let you know, Garritan, that you have done so far great work (owning all of your other libraries) and i was waiting or a long time for some Garritan Choir/Vocal libraries.

My wish: Make them as easy usable as GPO and theirlike. (Some of us prefer to write music scores instead of playing around with confusing knob and buttons and sliders etc...)

Greetings,

Marc

[Styxx]

I want it all! )(~

Anyone mention marimba and vibes with different mallets, yarn, hard, soft, wood, and or ball peen hammer?
What else is there except PVC tube, spoons, open end wrenches of various sizes, and ...wait, this falls under "found sounds", yes?

[schneb]

Phenomenal Phonemator? Gary, contact your trademark attorney NOW!
I don't know, GDG, I don't thing Garritan's PP is good product branding. ;)

[schneb]

I had a similar experience as a young lad. I once witnessed a couple of guys moving an old upright piano on the back of a pickup truck up a steep hill.
Ever watch Laurel & Hardy's short Piano Movers? My favorite of all time. The sound of the piano inside the transport box sounded like a combination sledgehammer on a piano and the shaking of a rack of tubular bells. ;)

Sorry Gary, I'm getting the thread offtrack.

I hope we have provided a good list of needed features and capabilities for Aria. Samples will come as demand dictates. But the player needs to have a great versatility to play them. :)

[schneb]

With a good real programmable cymbal-instrument, well, why not the whole drum kit played with mallets (for this kinda subtle accompanying... u know... lots of rolls, some smooth toms, soft cymbals, etc etc, very acoustic stuff).

I had to bump this post one more time because I badly needed a cymbal roll crescendo using soft mallets for a piece I was working on, and could NOT make it happen. So I am casting my vote for this as well.

[DanielB]

Perhaps...

In GPO,
Staccato harp notes!

Muffling the strings with the finger or hand immediately after playing a note.
:n:

[jmpaquette]

Perhaps...

In GPO,
Staccato harp notes!

Sure, that sounds good!


Muffling the strings with the finger or hand immediately after playing a note.
:n:No! No! No! Under no circumstances will Gary allow the sound of the beloved Harp to be muffled, stuffled, stifled or in any other way have its freedom of speech abridged! :D

[AlexBG]

I would like to have in GPO:
Choir - S A T B Boys
Solo - S A T B Boy
Percussions - Tam-tam, etc.

Best regards,
AlexBG

[NDEE]

As we work at programming our libraries for the ARIA player, and here's your chance to let us know what you would like to see. We'll have some more capabilities and features. So let us know what you would like to see and we'll consider it and see what we can do for future editions of the libraries.

Gary Garritan

Gary,

In ARIA (for GPO), how about having the possibility to enter a MINIMUM and MAXIMUM value for the MOD wheel range?

I use GPO with my synth guitar (played live) and I use an expression pedal to act as the MOD wheel , however, the "sweet spot" of a given sound is often narrow and difficult to control with the expression pedal since the pedal range is set from 0 to 127 (that range is too wide for precise playing with an expression pedal).

Having the possibility to set those values would be wonderful. For example, a minimum MOD wheel range setting of 60 and a maximum of 80 would allow me to use the full range of my expression pedal to play only in that sweet spot between 60 to 80. It would allow precise playing of the MOD wheel with an expression pedal.

This feature could reside independently in every slot in an instance of the ARIA player thus allowing each loaded instrument/ensemble sound to have it's very own customizable MOD wheel range. Also, the possibility to save these settings would allow quick recalls in a live show performance.

Finally, having this feature for GPOA (if it ever comes out!) would be amazing.

Anyone else interested in this feature???

Gary, Tom, David, any comments?

NDEE

[BenNichols]

I know you wont tell us, and for good reasons, but im going to ask anyway..how about a rough release date or two? ;)

Seriously, id LOVE to hear what the full blown choir can do, and some ethnic instruments that dont blow the bank would be fantastic.

Most of all though Id love anything and everything that is released to continue in the Garritan trend of being the most playable virtual instruments available. I loved GPO for that, and truly missed such great playability when i had to move to another orchestra library, but i still use the Gofriller, and can only hope that everything is as playable as that. it is fantastic! (Please release the string quartet soon.......)

Oh and one more thing. Perhaps more than one of each solo string instrument in the string quartet package? So we could mix in several (or more) high quality virtual performances into a live recording to help boost it? I know the Gofriller has 4 different 'resonance' settings (cant remember what they are called), but they all sound derived from the same cello. Can we have more clearly different sounding awesome solo string instruments PLEEEEESE?!

thank you and keep up the good work :)

[jnail7]

One feature that I believe would be beneficial is the incorporation of phasing. Currently, playing multiple lines of the same sample sounds “two dimensional” as they are in phase with each other. The easiest method to simulate phasing would be to include minute independent delays to each channel (through some method for presetting). This could simulate the phase interferences inherent to an observer of two or more performers playing in unison. In essences giving the illusion of depth that one experiences at a live performance.

Perhaps the tools developed for this could have simple presets similar to the ambiance reverb effects (concert hall, ball room, etc.) but would represent general distance of the listener to the performers.

[raweber]

Currently, playing multiple lines of the same sample sounds “two dimensional” as they are in phase with each other. The easiest method to simulate phasing would be to include minute independent delays to each channel (through some method for presetting).
I don't know. I think it might even be easier to use Player 1 and Player 2 of whatever instrument you're using. That's what they're there for. They are seperately recorded samples of different musicians playing different instruments. The various violins, for instance, have quite different tonalities.

[tptsareamazing]

I would love to see...

- More articulations (especially in the strings) ... although that may be GPOA territory
- More percussion...and more control over the percussion (tempo-locked rolls/crescendos/windchime and marktree glissandos)
- Along those same lines, a tempo-locked harp for glissandos (think CineHarp)
- Advanced instrument placement (in the stereo field...Garritan Drag and Drop??)

And, above all else, the BEST integration possible with Finale/notation programs. A lot of great orchestral samples out there just do not work with notation software, or there aren't easy ways to implement playback (for instance, tempo-synced runs and phrases).

Then again, I'm all for skipping GPO Aria and going straight to GPOA...is its release still "imminent?" ~|

-Ken

[Styxx]

A ham samich, cup a joe, and a toolabox. Oh, and ah ... DPDAN's ears. :D

[qccowboy]

I forget whether this has been asked for or not, this thread has gotten so long:

GPO: ALL Harmonics for strings (including solo violin)

I have the Stradivari, and while the harmonics sound lovely, it is MOST frustrating to notice that there are some difficult to play harmonics that are recorded (including those at the 3rd) while artificial harmonics, which are a breeze to play, are NOT included.

This gets terribly frustrating when writing for solo violin, where it is normal to have entire passages in artificial harmonics.

And please, make it so that the trigger notes for the harmonics are recognizable by HumanPlayback in Finale. With the harmonics of the Strad I have trouble with the usual harmonic notation getting playback to work properly.

What I mean by this is that there are notes BELOW middle C on my keyboard that play as harmonics, when this is patently impossible. If there are harmonics, really, they should at least be in the proper octave to be logical.

As it is, I can't even set an octave transposition to get my harmonics to work properly in Finale. (by the way, for some reason, Finale 2010 is considerably more finicky about playback, notation, and shortcuts)

[Harsmith]

[QUOTE=Garritan;554086]As we work at programming our libraries for the ARIA player, and here's your chance to let us know what you would like to see.


Gary,

Would it be possible to to have the hidden controllers for patches visible too on the page with the usual controller data ( length variation etc). When using a patch it would be useful to have these to hand, rather than have to keep refering to the manual?

Thanks
Ian

[danveach]

Another solo clarinet with a darker tone would be nice. A German clarinet would be ideal, but every orchestral player also uses an "A" clarinet, which has a darker tone than the usual "Bb" clarinet.

[Frank D]

Sorry I missed this for so long!

JABB Wish-list:

Trombone pedal tones, at least the first three (Bb, A, Ab).

I never noticed this missing until I did my Latin tune ("Vito's Mambo") for Orch. Challenge No. 21. Tenor trombone pedal tones are used quite a bit in Latin and jazz arrangements. I would be quite happy with even the 1st position Bb, the most reliable of the Tb pedals.

Since the keyswitches don't start until the G below the pedal Bb-A-Ab, there wouldn't be any overlap/interferrence.

EEb Contra-alto Clarinet

This is an often-used low reed in Broadway pits. I'm currently using the CaMB BBb contrabass clarinet (never used in a pit) and just limiting the range, but the EEb contra-alto is a lot more commonly used instrument and would be great to have.

Thanks for listening!

Regards,

Frank

[Matthew S Phillips]

I noticed a couple of people mentioned timpani with wire brushes etc. I don't know if anyone has mentioned this specifically or not, but I would LOVE to see a Keyswitch on the Timpani to do a basic roll (i.e. unmeasured tremelo). I can't imagine why there isn't one already. (there's one on the Bass drum after all) :D

THanks for listening,
Matt

[riberto123]

Hi everyone,

Wow! - That has really become a long thread :-)
I tried to read everthing but I might have missed some points.
So please don't mind if I mention things which have already been told before.

my wishes are:

- strings - without vibrato or at least control over vibrato.
new layers (flautando and harmonics)

- strings - If I select auto-alternating or up- and down-bows the
behavior of solostrings is different from the section strings.
(Solo -> long - section super-short) (how come???)

- strings - using the first layer (Sus+short / sustain) the velocity hardly
affect the loudness. With the other layers it does. (e.g. auto-alternate .
the velocity changes the loudness massively) (how come???)

- a parameter in preferencess would be ideal where one can configure if
the loudness is controlled by CC1 or CC7. For me it's really confusing
that instruments are controlled this or that way.

- Harps/Vibraphon/Marimba/Percussion
I would like to have more control over the length. With a real harp I can
also mute a sounding string with my hand in any give moment.
(maybe controlled by 2nd pedal?)
the same with mallet pads
(if I'm missing or doing wrong something here, please tell me)

- a decent classical guitar, mandolin, mandola

- saxophones ( are not only Big Band instruments :-)

further wishes ...
if there will ever be a 'barock' library containing
lute, recorders, viola da gamba, basset horn etc. the same quality like the rest we already have, I would immedeately buy it!

greetz
Robert

ps: all above mentioned isn't meant as complaining.
I'm happy to have GPO4!

[Warren Barnett]

I would like the Concert and Marching Band library to be a bit more "drum corps friendly". Seldom are mellophones mellow, but that is all that I can manage to squeeze out of CAMB mellophones. Quite often mellophone parts are written to rip the audiences face off, and sometimes referred to as razor-phones by members of the audience. Perhaps the addition of overlays, such as in the full GPO french horn and trombone parts would solve this. But then, these overlays really should be added for all brass instruments in all Garritan libraries. Unless playing a beautiful placid classical piece of music, rarely is a brass instrument not a bit (or a lot) (or extremely) brassy when it gets up around ff, fff, ffff, fffff, rfl, and efl. (that's really f***ing loud and even f***ing lounder).

Warren Barnett

[trimpe]

I would like the Concert and Marching Band library to be a bit more "drum corps friendly". Seldom are mellophones mellow, but that is all that I can manage to squeeze out of CAMB mellophones. Quite often mellophone parts are written to rip the audiences face off, and sometimes referred to as razor-phones by members of the audience. Perhaps the addition of overlays, such as in the full GPO french horn and trombone parts would solve this. But then, these overlays really should be added for all brass instruments in all Garritan libraries. Unless playing a beautiful placid classical piece of music, rarely is a brass instrument not a bit (or a lot) (or extremely) brassy when it gets up around ff, fff, ffff, fffff, rfl, and efl. (that's really f***ing loud and even f***ing lounder).
If there was a way to do that seamlessly with Finale's human playback, I think I would be in heaven.

[Leini]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet.
My general wishes for ARIA player (I have GPO4):
- Arrows for switching to next/previous instrument
- Selected instrument should have a checkmark or appear in bold in the list when you switch to another instrument.

[Harsmith]

Gary, would it be possible to have an option for the string section 'short bow'
parches to respond to the controller 1 messages for midi contrller 11 too?
i.e. similar to the solo string patches?

Thanks
Ian