Opinions on Bos Imperial and Grandioso

[mal7]

Firstly, my apologies for starting yet another piano thread, but I have been saving my pennies, and want to make sure I purchase a sample set I will be happy with. (have been burnt several times before!)
I have been using East West’s Bosendorfer and Steinway B for quite a while now, and although I am reasonably happy with them, I expect the newer piano samples would be a big improvement. (I play jazz piano)
It appears either Kip’s Bosendorfer Imperial or Michael’s Grandioso are the way to go. I will not ask which one is “better” as I am fully aware it is a matter of personal taste.
However, before I purchase, I would like to get opinions from anyone who has either library, and possibly how they compare to East West Bos and Steinway.

Thanks everyone

Mal

[composer22]

I have the malmsjo and the giga...

I am leaning to Kips next. I need a good SOLO piano for my collection. I cant get enuf pianos!

Malmsjo is great for ORCH and CHAMBER Piano (very warm and very intimate - good blender), but perhaps hot heavy enuf for an in the front of an orchestra piano or with a chorus.

[mal7]

Thanks for your input, but I was more interested in those who have Kip\'s Bosendorfer or Michael\'s Grandioso, and could make comments on each. Also hopefully to be able to compare them to the older East west Bos and steinway B, and whether there has been a marked improvement...

[Michiel Post]

Hi,
I can’t keep repeating myself enough: the Bosendorfer Imperial and Grandioso Steinway D are two different grand pianos. There is IMO no question of which one is better. They are both very well recorded and edited samples of acoustic grands and they offer a very realistic sampled grand. They both do. Now these two grand piano differ in many aspects. Some musicians perform on Steinway grands only, other prefer the Bosendorfer. With these two you have –say- 90% of the top-pianists choices of pianos.

Now I can imagine you want a piano that fits best with your specific needs and I cannot judge that from my position.

The best starting point would be to listen to the demo files we provide of both libraries.
Post Musical Instruments decided to make an audio cd that shows some of the GRANDIOSO Steinway D recorded music in CD-quality for your evaluation. If you send me an e-mail at postaudiomedia@xs4all.nl we’ll send you the free audio CD.

When you visit http://www.bardstownaudio.com/frames/mp3.html (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com/frames/mp3.html\") and http://www.postaudiomedia.com/basishtml/demos.html (\"http://www.postaudiomedia.com/basishtml/demos.html\")
You will find the demos of the GRANDIOSO and Bosendorfer Imperial.
Some of them are from the same piece of music so you can compare the sound side-by-side.

I’ve copied the links of two of these pieces below.

GRANDIOSO Steinway D
GRANDIOSO Purgatory Creek shoutout midi file http://www.postmusicalinstruments.com/demo/Purgatorycreek%20test.MP3 (\"http://www.postmusicalinstruments.com/demo/Purgatorycreek%20test.MP3\")
Fantasie Impromtu http://www.postaudiomedia.com/demos/grandioso%20%20piano/PMI%20STEINWAY.mp3 (\"http://www.postaudiomedia.com/demos/grandioso%20%20piano/PMI%20STEINWAY.mp3\")

Bosendorfer Imperial
Bosendorfer Imperial Grand solo Purgatory Creek shoutout midi file http://www.bardstownaudio.com/mp3/shoot.mp3 (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com/mp3/shoot.mp3\")
Fantasie Impromtu http://www.bardstownaudio.com/mp3/001B.mp3 (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com/mp3/001B.mp3\")

You say you’re mainly looking for a solo piano and you perform jazz music.
Check out the http://www.postmusicalinstruments.com/demo/jazz%20impro.MP3 (\"http://www.postmusicalinstruments.com/demo/jazz%20impro.MP3\") and http://www.bardstownaudio.com/mp3/006.mp3 (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com/mp3/006.mp3\") demos.

Hope this helps!

Michiel Post
Post Musical Instruments www.postmusicalinstruments.com (\"http://www.postmusicalinstruments.com\")

[KingIdiot]

I agree with Michiel,

two different pianos not one thats better..

maybe one that suits your needs better

I Have Kips/Bardstowns bosie

Its a great jazzy/solo piano.

I\'m not a piano guy myself, but when I fool around with it, it reminds me of Who framed roger rabbit\'s jazzy piano sound. (sorry, yah I know film score...sheesh do they talk about anything else?)

This isn\'t to say it wont work well in other styles of music, theres some optional programming features that widen the variety of the sound.

I think it will work well with other pieces, but thats teh character I \"hear\" from it.

I dont have Post\'s Grandioso, but from the demos I hear a completely different sound. Another good one at that.


------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 04-11-2002).]

[mal7]

Thanks for that Michael, but if you read my original post, I said, quote.......
\"I will not ask which one is better as I am fully aware it is a matter of personal taste.\"
What i really wanted to know was if those who have purchased these libraries are happy with them, and secondly, if there has been much of an improvement since the days of the East West libraries.

I have almost decided to buy both now, despite the fact that it will accelerate my forthcoming divorce :-))

[Michiel Post]

Sorry Mal, I misunderstood the question then. You did write \"I will NOT ask which one is better...\"

To read some users comments go to http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/Forum3/HTML/002190.html (\"http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/Forum3/HTML/002190.html\")
where both Mel Tron and Chis Axia (who was beta tester and made a couple of wonderful demos) give their comment.

Michiel Post

[sjduck]

One key difference between the EW pianos and Michiel\'s/Kip\'s is the addition of release-triggered samples. I have Kip\'s Bosy, and the release samples on that instument add a polish to the final sound not found with the EW pianos. I hope to get Michiel\'s Steinway soon as that has release samples and additional \'ambient\' layers, I believe.

My recommendation is that you buy them both as they\'re both so different - and compared to the price of a physical digital piano, quite affordable.

[mal7]

Have taken your advice Stephen, and have just ordered BOTH Michiel\'s Grandioso and Kip\'s Bosendorfer. (My bank manager says thankyou :-))
Anyone whose passions are contemporary jazz and Indian curries must know what they are talking about :-)

[Michiel Post]

Great decision! We\'ll put a warning on the website for the fact that it may accelerate forthcoming divorces :-))

[sjduck]

Ain\'t that the truth! Why can\'t girlfriends/wives see the beauty in streaming multiple channels of digital audio from a hard disk?!

[noenoeil]

\"Ain\'t that the truth! Why can\'t girlfriends/wives see the beauty in streaming multiple channels of digital audio from a hard disk?!\"

Now that\'s a good question !!!
I realized how much sample tweaking is a \"guy\" thing, just by reading these forums. Dudes, let\'s have some beers and share about proctologists, cars and football too. This is a safety place for this, excellent cover (proctologists already done as I can see).

[Michiel Post]

No female reply?

I do know a couple of female sample tweakers (not many) but they seem to dislike communicating here...

[sjduck]

And who could blame them ...!

Michiel, I finally got time to listen to your demo CD today. Thanks for sending it - it really is most interesting. There\'s quite a variety of different sounds between tracks. I can\'t remember if someone\'s already asked this, but do you have any specific information about the different patches used on the CD?

Steve

[jmccord]

While we\'re on the subject of pianos, has anybody heard or tried the Steinberg Grand? It\'s reviewed in this month\'s Sound on Sound. It\'s not a Halion (or Giga) sample but is a stand-alone VST plug-in. The piano is apparently a Kawai concert grand. Would be interested in any feedback.
jim

[Michiel Post]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sjduck:

Michiel, I finally got time to listen to your demo CD today. -snip-
I can\'t remember if someone\'s already asked this, but do you have any specific information about the different patches used on the CD?
Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Steve,
The first 4 tracks were all recorded in GST with the Classic Steinway D, all -except the Wagner TRISTAN AND ISOLDE, which was 16 layer- with the standard 4 velocity patch with release triggered soundboard resonance.
The other two demos are for the Post Harpsichord vol 1 and Post Fortepiano cd\'s.
All tracks have differnet external reverb settings, but none was eq-ed or compressed.
Altiverb, RenVerb, Lexicon and Sony sampling verb were used if I remember correctly.
Michiel Post

[Michiel Post]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jmccord:
has anybody heard or tried the Steinberg Grand?
jim<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Jim,
I worked with The Grand and spoke to the KAWAI dep general manager musical instr. div. who admitted the Grand uses the KAWAI samples. For what my opnion is worth (...) here are some remarks.
First, they recorded an Kawai concert grand. For those of us who know it\'s sound that will be clear enough. The quality of the instrument comes back in the samples. In both positive and negative aspects.
Secondly, the samples are all recorded in an an-echoic chamber. There is nothing in the recording that has anything to do with room, space, distance or such. The samples are very well recorded, but lack any kind of space. You can add a VST reverb (or external effect) but that only solves a small part of the problem.
(And now the good news) Third, I was very impressed with all the artifact and pedal sounds. You get great control over these factors. There are seperate controls that let you tweak the resonance, the release sound and the pedal sounds. I found that the most rewarding aspect of the product.

I\'m not much of a VST person for sampling; I prefer Giga, but for those who are sold to their platform the Grand is a nice addition. I did get a chance to compare the GRANDIOSO in Halion (converted by someone else) and it was crystal clear which one sounds more realistic! But hey, what do you expect from me!
Hope this helps,

Michiel Post

[sjduck]

Hi Jim

I had the opportunity to play with The Grand about a week or so ago and *really* liked it.

Being a major VST release, it has the sort of \'gloss\' that is usually only found on digital pianos. By \'gloss\', I mean that there are no occasional rough samples, no irregularities across the keyboard. For some this may remove some of the realism associated with Giga pianos.

I really liked the tone of it and have placed it in my \'Top Three\' favourite pianos. (I\'m not going into what those are here!)

It requires more than double the amount of RAM that Giga does, but may be right up your street if you have a capable machine. One really nice feature is the \'Hammer Release\' option, which allows you to hear the hammers returning at the end of each note.

If you want an example of its dynamic, listen to the mp3s at the bottom of this page:
http://www.skryabin.com/thegrand.html (\"http://www.skryabin.com/thegrand.html\")

[David Sears]

I like the sound of The Grand but I have been having problems with it as far as latency goes. I\'ve got a fairly capable machine (800 mhz Ahtlon, 768 mb RAM, RME Hammerfall) which runs Gigastudio just fine and I can\'t get The Grand to cooperate. On heavily pedaled passages it seems to have memory problems. I\'ve switched to Kip\'s Bosendorfer and I\'m very happy with it.

- David

[Franky]

Hi Mal, well i can\'t speak for the Grandioso because i don\'t have it i do have however pretty much every other piano library out there Steinway B, Kip\'s Imperial Bosendorfer,
EW Bosendorfer Wizoo VSTI The Grand etc etc etc...

So far my favorite 2 are by far Kip\'s Imperial Bosendorfer and \"Wizoo\'s The Grand\"

From the demoes i\'m hearing Grandioso seems very very good but can\'t comment on it since i dont own it. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Franky
Vintaudio Prod. www.vintaudio.com (\"http://www.vintaudio.com\")

[mal7]

Hi Frank,
I ordered both Bosendorfer Imperial and Grandioso yesterday :-))
Couldn\'t decide between the two. From the MP3\'s I\'ve listened to, I wont be disappointed!

[Franky]

Good for you, Please tell us your impressions on the Grandioso when you get it.

http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Franky.
Vintaudio Prod. www.vintaudio.com (\"http://www.vintaudio.com\")

[EnsoniqWiz]

Mal,

Luckily, you\'re in a position to order more than one piano sample at a time. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

After much testing, debating, and endless listening to demos (purgatory creek, et al), I finally decided on Kip\'s Bosendorfer.

I am EXTREMELY happy with this product! Kip is truly a gentleman and stands behind his product. I\'m impressed! I hope you enjoy this product as much as I do.

Allow me to relate an amusing story about the Bardstown Bosendorfer:

Prior to buying this piano, I used the best of what I had available -- an old, crappy Technics digital piano (circa 1991), or a slightly improved Baldwin sample on an Ensoniq ASR-88. Neither one is honestly very good, but hey -- I used what I had!

Most of the time, my wife \"tolerates\" my playing (but would prefer that I wear headphones and keep it to myself). The same can be said for my older daughter. No, my playing does not suck! I am, however, a classical pianist surrounded by rockers. And, up until receiving the Bosendorfer, I didn\'t really have anything that sounded very good (even WITH all the right notes)!

Shortly after receiving the Bardstown Bosendorfer, I was playing and listening through my monitors (admittedly kinda loud -- I was really enjoying the instrument!). I was running through my \"normal\" repertoire of pieces; some Brahms, some Liszt, some Mendelssohn... From the other room, my wife commented, \"That sounds really good. I had to stop to see who was playing or if you were playing a CD.\" My daughter later commented, \"keep playing, Dad. It is helping me clear my mind and focus on my homework.\"

Now, I can truthfully attest to the fact that Kip\'s sample does NOT fix wrong notes on the fly! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif It just sounds wonderful!

Cheers!

[mal7]

Good one :-)
My wife just thinks I am \"self indulgent\" each time I play. (and I can play...it has always been my living!)Considers music a threat....almost like another woman..
Hopefully Bos Imperial and Grandioso will have a similar effect on her, as it did with your family:-)
And I agree about Kip...he phoned me to take my order, and I was most impressed by his friendly manner and professionalism. Old fashioned service is not dead!