Accordions !

[Michiel Post]

We\'ve updated the Post Accordion for Gigasampler disk. There are now extra controller dimensions. All instruments use the modulation wheel for filter and amplitude swells. There are 4 new instruments. Two use the mod wheel for crossfades from Musette to SuperMusette. Another instrument uses the General purpose control faders 1 to 4 for real time timbre shift from Accordiana to Hohner 4\' to Musette settings for both.

Please listen to the new (expessive) demo and let me know what you think:
http://www.postmusicalinstruments.com/demo/NEW%20POST%20ACCORDION%20DEMO.MP3 (\"http://www.postmusicalinstruments.com/demo/NEW%20POST%20ACCORDION%20DEMO.MP3\")

For existing users we have the (free) update available at: http://www.postaudiomedia.com/basishtml/updates.html (\"http://www.postaudiomedia.com/basishtml/updates.html\")

The library is on 1 (only one!) CD-ROM for a reduced price ($80).

The accordion is very popular here since a royal wedding (Dutch prince with an Argentina girl) where a Piazzola tango was performed life during the wedding. This made us start working with the Post Accordion Library to make it more suited for tango.

Michiel Post

[Michiel Post]

Thanks!
I\'m a big fan of Piazzolla and have a lot of his cd\'s. I had the pleasure of meeting him when he was in Vredenburg (Utrecht) many years ago.

I made this demo with my small midi keyboard that has has 8 midi pots on it. I use this a lot for control of all the general purpose controllers that are mapped to \"expressiveness\" in the patches.

Another option would be to use a breath controller to send gen purpose data.

This library really makes it fun to experiment with that. The accordion is an instrument that needs fysical input from the player to come to life.
Have fun!

Michiel


[This message has been edited by Michiel Post (edited 04-09-2002).]

[jsaras]

As an accordion player, I feel uniquely qualified to comment on accordion samples. This is the best sampled accordion to date.

The single note stuff sounds pretty believable. The chords, however, give it away to my ear. It\'s pretty difficult to duplicate the sounds and phrasing that can be done with a set of bellows. A guy like Nick Ariondo can play the instrument in a manner that literally makes it sound like a whole orchestra..even better than the Garritan Strings!

[Magpel]

Delicious! I just ordered it (just so you\'ll know a good demo does its job from time to time). I am an enormous fan of Piazzolla, consider him up there with Ellington or Gershwin in terms of serious&popular 20th century composers. Well, it\'s not a bandoneon (sp?) but it sounds great to me. Good price too. Thanks, Michiel.

[Michiel Post]

Thank you, I take that as a great compliment coming from an accordion player!

Chords...I played these chords with my right hand. I should have included samples of the left hand chords but we didn\'t record those at the time we recorded this stuff. I agree that the chords in the demo give it away as sampled. This leaves room for \'real\' accordion players to be better after all.

There is a fantastic book \"le grand TANGO of Astor Piazzolla\" by Maria Suzana and Simon Colle that I can recommend to anyone seriously interested in Tango and the music of Piazzolla.

Michiel Post

[This message has been edited by Michiel Post (edited 04-10-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Michiel Post (edited 04-10-2002).]

[noenoeil]

Hi all
I just ordered it.
Note to developpers : this is what a demo should be. This one made me go to Post\'s shop and click all the \"submit\" buttons I found.
The reverb could be avoided but it\'s the first time I can hear all what I need in a sample library... In a tiny mp3.
Thanks Michiel, be sure I\'ll post mp3\'s of the good work I will perform with your great library.
Note to some other developpers : dudes, stop making noise in the forums in front of your customers. These place looks like my favorite italian restaurant these days, excellent food but the bosses are always fighting behind the bar, sometimes I can\'t even enjoy my meal... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

[Michiel Post]

noenoeil: Thank you very much. I really appriciate this. Please let me hear the music you will make with the library.

Have a great time and enjoy your meal... !

Good point!

Michiel Post

[sirbellog]

Hi Michiel,
I purchased \"Post Accordions\" a few months ago, in akai format (owning at that time only EXS24) then converted it to Giga as soon as I got it.
Well, I\'ve not been very happy with these accordions, neither on EXS nor on Giga : to my ears, there are weak things in attacks, in some loops, even in some noises plaguing some pitches here and there, all that making me find more than a half of them unusable for really pleasant accordion solo lines.
So I wonder if conversion is the one to blame, or the akai programs themselves ?
Besides, I wonder if I would have any advantage in purchasing the Giga format : any differences in sample size (maybe longer loops or no loops), any improvements in programming ?
To be frank, I heard the Bardtown Audio\'s accordion demos, and even if the relatively higher price prevented me to jump right away, I must say they seem to sound cleaner, and more realistic.
May I have your frank developer\'s opinion on that comment ?

[Michiel Post]

Shure you can have my frank opinion on that one, that what this forum is all about.
The forum is a way for me as developer to express and communicate ,a way to get free publicity (I’m not afraid to admit that) and a way to learn about our users needs. That is why I value your response as any other.

The instruments I recorded were not all in perfect -brand new- shape. What you hear is the actual instrument, with it’s associated noises and irregularities. Some love that some people hate it. Frankly I use the Hohner patches only. The others ad charm and life but I prefer the sound of the Hohner Morino. It was performed by a famous Dutch accordion player who I admire. Maybe that influences my cjoice. The new General Purpose Patch that I added to the Giga disk makes a combination of these sounds with Accoriana and Concertina sounds and adds the ability to cross-fade between the sounds AND adds mod-wheel controlled filter and amplitude changes. Things that weren’t possible in the Akai patches as these samplers are very limited. In the Akai S1000 you can only load one patch at a time, thus making it absolutely impossible to achieve complex results. In my opinion the best results are always achieved by combining (layering patches) according to your needs for a specific piece of music. This is true for accordion sounds also. A dry sample of a simple patch is mostly unusable because it’s crystal clear that it’s a sampled instrument and not a real instrument. When you combine things and add clever programming stuff to add expression you can trick the listener ears and make him believe he is listening to a real instrument.
I happen to own the Bardtown Audio’s accordion cd. I find it not right to express my opinion about it in this context as it would only lead to fights or wrong impressions. Kip recorded very high quality instruments and there were recorded very well. When you listen to his demos you will probably feel there is slightly less expression compared to my latest demo. At least that is what I feel is missing. That doesn’t say his or mine are better or more usable. It just depend on what kind of music you are going to make. I really enjoyed listening to Kip’s demos. For the rest: the two libraries just coexist. We don’t want to start a competition here.

You own the Akai version but work with Giga. I would suggest sending me the Akai disk and I’ll send you the Giga version v.3. This way you can find out for your self if the conversion is the issue that is bugging your appreciation of the product. If not we’re one step further and nobody loses anything. Send me an email and I’ll give you the mailing address.My address is postaudiomedia@xs4all.nl

I think it’s fair that when somebody change platforms (like you do) you are entitled to swap the distribution form in which the samples come (Giga, Akai, Kurzweil) . I wish more companies followed such a strategy as that would save me *****’s of dollars! Unfortenately I’m kind of an expeption here.

Hope this helps,

Michiel Post

[sirbellog]

Hi again, Michiel,
I read your reply to my post (no play on words...) and I want to thank you very much for that fast and kind feedback.
- First, I think your comment on Kip\'s library is very respectful and balanced.
- Second, your proposal for a swap from Akai to Giga is more that I could expect, and proves that you really care for the people who buy your discs.
I wish that all developers were so aware of this sampler-switch issue, and ready to react like you.
So, although I will now join you \"in private\", with your email, I wanted to express that last opinion publicly, since I expressed the first one in the same way.
Thanks again.

[Michiel Post]

You\'re welcome and I\'m glad we were able to make you a happy customer!

I think more developers will follow our strategy in the end. Consider just today we had 5 people (in less than a day) who want to swap to the Giga-version as they no longer use (or even have) their Akai machines but switched to GS. This must be good news for TASCAM too...

[midphase]

Let me say that this sounds way better and more realistic than the Bardstown Accordion!

The price is also more inviting, I think $80 is reasonable for a single \"specialized use\" instrument library!

I don\'t want to dis Bardstown, but that guy just rubbed me the wrong way!

I think next time I need to buy an Accordion library I\'ll be giving you a call!

[Bardstown Audio]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by midphase:
Let me say that this sounds way better and more realistic than the Bardstown Accordion!

The price is also more inviting, I think $80 is reasonable for a single \"specialized use\" instrument library!

I don\'t want to dis Bardstown, but that guy just rubbed me the wrong way!

I think next time I need to buy an Accordion library I\'ll be giving you a call!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I don\'t know who you are, but I know for fact that I have not sold any \"Classic Accordions\" sampled CD\'s to anyone in Orlando, Florida, which is where you are located based on your profile.

You are giving the impression that you purchased these sampled accordions from me and have first hand experience with them, and with me personally, when in reality you have not purchased these sampled accordions from me, nor do you have first hand experience with me personally.

In reference to the price, there are nine different sampled accordions in the \"Classic Accordions\" collection on a two CD disk set.

You say that I rubbed you the wrong way. I am not aware of anyone who is dissatisfied with either me or my sampled instrument libraries. I have always had very cordial and polite conversations with all of my customers, and no one has ever expressed anything to the contrary.

It is always my goal to provide top quality sampled instruments and first class and friendly customer service.

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe you are the individual who had some comments about a tango demo that I posted several weeks ago, saying that the particular accordion sample that I used did not sound like Astor Piazzolla. I replied by saying that Astor Piazzolla did not play accordion, and that Astor Piazzolla played a bandoneon, which is an instrument that is different from an accordion, and that a bandoneon has less pronounced attack sounds than accordions. I also indicated that there are as many or more tangos played on accordions than on bandoneons. So therefore, either instrument is an authentic instrument for playing tangos.

If I, in any way, rubbed you the wrong way, please accept my apology.

Kip
Bardstown Audio
www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")




[This message has been edited by Bardstown Audio (edited 04-11-2002).]

[midphase]

Kip,

Your post just made my point. My conversations with you involved giving you some constructive criticism on your product (Accordions Library specifically) to which you did nothing but reject the feedback with your \"corrections\" and \"explanations\".

As a developer you should welcome people\'s feedback (good or bad) with open arms and simply realize that there is a reason as to why I wasn\'t sold on your accordion. I have also brought up that maybe the demo didn\'t do it justice, unfortunately when I downloaded more accordion demos from your site I was equally unimpressed. To make your product even less desirable you put a whopping $200 price tag on this library. While it is certainly your prerogative to price your products as you see fit, I feel that it\'s a fairly sizeable chunk of change to shell out for an instrument that, quite frankly, most people will not utilize that much.

For those reasons your replies have made you sound (to me) like you are full of yourself and unwilling to at least consider that there is something amiss in your library (and/or demo tracks).

Michel\'s demo was far more convincing, his price is very reasoneable, and his willingness to treat his costumers right makes him sound like a cool guy.

On a positive note, I commend both of you guys for paying attention to this misunderstood and overlooked instrument.


PS.

Kip, you won\'t find me on your clients\' list because I haven\'t purchased your accordion...duh!

[Bardstown Audio]

Midphase,

You make some very strong statements, as though you personally have the \"Classic Accordions\" collection, even though you don\'t have them.

I assure you that your opinion is not shared by the majority of other people, and well satisfied customers who have purchased the \"Classic Accordions\" collection. The demos of the Classic Accordions on my web site speak for themselves.

I have been a professional accordion musician for over thirty years. I am therefore very well qualified in knowing how accordions are supposed to sound. I assure you that I am even fooled by my own sampled accordions to the point that I cannot tell whether they are real live accordions or sampled accordions, if I were to record the same accordion music using a real live accordion, and also the sampled \"Classic Accordions.\"

In reference to your criticism about the price, I will remind you that there are nine different sampled accordions on a two disk CD set of the \"Classic Accordions.\"

In my previous posting, I offered an apology to you, if I had in any way, rubbed you the wrong way, considering that you stated in a previous posting that I did rub you the wrong way. I am a bit confused as to your persistence in trying to continue to slam the \"Classic Accordions.\" The vast majority of people do not share your views.

I find it to be amazing that you are coming across in your statements as though you are an expert on sampled instrument libraries that you have not personally purchased or experienced.

Kip
Bardstown Audio
www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

[Bardstown Audio]

I want to offer my apologies to Michiel for the swing in the main topic of conversations on this particular thread topic that he started a couple of days ago.

I would also like to say that Michiel\'s sampled accordions are very worthwhile sampled accordions to consider, in addition to his newly released Grandioso Steinway piano.

Kind regards,

Kip

[Michiel Post]

no problem, no comments

[Scott Speed]

Kip & Michiel,

I *really* hope people are taking note of how you guys handled this...Michiel, the upgrade policy you have from Akai to Giga disks is really great, and I hope more developers adopt this policy. It\'s a great way to do business.
And both of you took potentially hostile conversations and either resolved them, or ignored them when there was obviously no point in continuing, which is the only way to keep things civil around here. Way to set the new standard!

Regards,
Scott

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bardstown Audio:
I want to offer my apologies to Michiel for the swing in the main topic of conversations on this particular thread topic that he started a couple of days ago.

I would also like to say that Michiel\'s sampled accordions are very worthwhile sampled accordions to consider, in addition to his newly released Grandioso Steinway piano.

Kind regards,

Kip


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Bardstown Audio]

Hi Michiel,

Thank you for your kind words!

You are a very nice gentleman!

Kip

[Michiel Post]

Hi Scott,
Thanks!
The cross-grade path for the Accordion disk is a service that we offer for our customers. We had 10 requests for the accordion swap so far...

I always ty to continue this forum in a civil way.

I think Kip is a great person and we\'ve been talking about mutual things. He deserves all the respect he can get.

Michiel Post

[midphase]

Kip,

I don\'t think there is anything \"uncivilized\" in being able to say that your replies rub me the wrong way.
I am certainly entitled to my own opinion and you certainly don\'t have to get worked up about it.

Great for you if I am the only person who hasn\'t been impressed by your demos! I would say you should be happy with that.

I guess the only point I was originally trying to make was that Michiel\'s demo sounded more realistic to my non-expert ears and given a choice I would buy Michiel\'s library before buying yours.
Big deal...so you miss out on a measely $200 for your business. For me $200 is a sizeable chunk to spend and once again I have to give Michiel\'s library kudos for being more affordable. Ultimately, as I stated many times before, I commend you both for spending the time to record and compile an accordion library.

Best of luck to the both of you with your respective businesses.