Composer 22

[Wacky]

Hey, I can\'t speak for UOP but DO NOT BUY LOP for the Timpanis.

The Roll articulations and the Cresendo Rolls are unuseable. They are very, very poorly performed and the programing is even worse. In some cases the Timpani roll sounds like a 16th note measured tremelo at 105 bpm because of the poor performance and programming. Some of the samples have been stretched over 5 semitones so the speeds of the rolls and cres rolls are radically different.

[composer22]

No worry

I also have Ult. timpani Library as well

[Wacky]

Are the rolls and cresendo tremoli better on the Ultimate Timpani library?

I am pretty pissed at the fact that the LOP library doesn\'t have these Timpani Articulations in any kind of a usable format.

I swear to God the timpanis on AO are performed twice as good as the LOP ones. I don\'t get it. This is so amatuer.

[composer22]

Whacky:

Listen to the demos online @
http://www.dssoundware.com (\"http://www.dssoundware.com\")

or nemesysmusic.com

They seem to be true.

I dont have time to look in detail, but here is a detail listing of all patches:

Cartwheel Cres and Decres
Cartwheel Cres and Decres Pan
Cartwheel Hand Muffled
Cartwheel Hand Muffled light
Cartwheel Hand Muffled Pan
Cartwheel Hand Muffled Pan light
Cartwheel Hits
Cartwheel Hits light
Cartwheel Pan
Cartwheel Pan light
Cartwheel Bass Timpani
Cartwheel Soprano Timpani
Cartwheel Rolls
Cartwheel Rolls light
Cartwheel Rolls Pan
Cartwheel Rolls Pan light
Green\'s Cres and Decres
Green\'s Cres and Decres Pan
Green\'s Hand Muffled
Green\'s Hand Muffled light
Green\'s Hand Muffled Pan
Green\'s Hand Muffled Pan light
Green\'s Hits
Green\'s Hits light
Green\'s Pan
Green\'s Pan light
Green\'s Bass Timpani
Green\'s Soprano Timpani
Green\'s Rolls
Green\'s Rolls light
Green\'s Rolls Pan
Green\'s Rolls Pan light
Medium Cres and Decres
Medium Cres and Decres Pan
Medium Hand Muffled
Medium Hand Muffled light
Medium Hand Muffled Pan
Medium Hand Muffled Pan light
Medium Hits
Medium Hits light
Medium Hits Pan
Medium Hits Pan light
Medium Bass Timpani
Medium Soprano Timpani
Medium Rolls
Medium Rolls light
Medium Rolls Pan
Medium Rolls Pan light
Medium Soft Cres and Decres
Medium Soft Cres and Decres Pan
Medium Soft Hand Muffled
Medium Soft Hand Muffled light
Medium Soft Hand Muffled Pan
Medium Soft Hand Muffled Pan light
Medium Soft Hits
Medium Soft Hits light
Medium Soft Hits Pan
Medium Soft Hits Pan light
Medium Soft Bass Timpani
Medium Soft Soprano Timpani
Medium Soft Rolls
Medium Soft Rolls light
Medium Soft Rolls Pan
Medium Soft Rolls Pan light
Fingers and Hands
Fingers and Hands light
Fingers and Hands Pan
Fingers and Hands Pan light
Bass Fingers and Hands
Alto Fingers and Hands
Timpani Extras
Wood Cres and Decres
Wood Cres and Decres Pan
Wood Hand Muffled
Wood Hand Muffled light
Wood Hand Muffled Pan
Wood Hand Muffled Pan light
Wood Hits
Wood Hits light
Wood Hits Pan
Wood Hits Pan light
Wood Bass Timpani
Wood Soprano Timpani
Wood Rolls
Wood Rolls light
Wood Rolls Pan
Wood Rolls Pan light

[donnie]

Ok you piece of crap this is starting to piss me off. Having an opinion is one thing but posting to every topic you can with the same lies is going overboard.

Everything was recorded by PROFESSIONAL percussionist (Sean and I). We have the degrees and the resume to prove it.

This is obviously some personal thing you have with me. The problem is that you don\'t just effect me but my wife, my son, Sean, and his family.

Donnie

[This message has been edited by donnie (edited 04-08-2002).]

[composer22]

Donnie is bezerking so...

Im going to post this wherever i see the whacky flames about LOP timpani. I have both the Ultimate Timpani Library AND LOP.

The LOP timpani are fine, especially for orchestral work. The two general .GIG files will give you everything you need and enough variety. The Hard patches are a matter of taste, which means some people, based on their compositional flavour will write with these. For me, LOP Timpani is helpful for most of my orchestral scoring work. If I am going to record, the Ultimate Timpani Library is extremely extensive and can be utilized to get every nuance etc. I\'ve played around with the Ultimate enough to know it will take me many days to understand the extensive power...it\'s BIG and extremely well recorded.

My vote is to get both...

cheers

[lanesp]

You have Donnie\'s response, I hope it is what you were looking for. I will respond differently and attempt to educate as in addition to my performance profession I also am a music educator by profession.
Timpani rolls, as with any percussion instrument will vary in speed with several factors coming into play. The pitch of the instrument, length of sustain of the head (or bar) and volume of the roll. Lower pitch, longer sustain and softer volumes are generally played by alternating strokes at a slower rate. The higher the pitch, shorter the sustain and louder the volume, the more quickly the strokes producing the roll will alternate. With a cresc. roll the speed of the roll will actually increase with the volume of the cresc. And, this is true with just about any percussion instrument, even snare drum \"buzz\" orchestral type, multiple bounce rolls.

Now, I did say \"generally played\" because this in indeed not always the case with lesser libraries that do not have professional players performing the sounds. Obviously, this is what you are used to hearing. If all string, brass or w.w. libraries were as poorly created as other percussion libraries, you would expect to hear out of tune, beginner instruments played by amatures and I guess would be dissapointed here too if that is not what you got.

Hope this helps.

Sean

[donnie]

Composer22...

I really appreciate your support. It is so refreshing to see someone who \"gets it\" and understands what we are trying to do.

Donnie

[composer22]

I forgot to add:

These are true timpani - miked close. You are probably used to hearing them in a hall and think they dont sound played well.

Have you ever stood next to a timpani while it is being played?

And you cant just throw them into a reverb hall setting and expect to get good depth. Try feeding your in\'s to a mixer and routing it to a reverb unit (not inline). Pull down your source to bare minimum if not OFF and let the reverb be your principal source. Experiment with the levels and percentage of the feed to the reverb and you may be surprised. Some people try a touch of delay too. Timpani are usually in the back of an orchestra center. Their main purpose is to highlight not only the fundamentals (usually tonic or dominant in CLASSICAL music) but also the higher overtones. Consequently, they play an extremely important role. They are also hard as hell to play and tune, and why 1) they don\'t do doubles 2) they take a lifetime to master. 3) they get paid $$$$.

[Robert Kral]

Donnie,

Can you clarify for me? Are the timpani rolls multisampled chromatically? Can you please respond to this thread with what is contained in the library to those of us who have not yet purchased it?

[Simon Ravn]

OK I think Donnie needs a vacation or something. Clearly someone is having personal problems and letting it out on NS forum members. Wacky says \'I think LOP timp rolls sound amateurish and are unusable\' and wooooh, personal attacks, threats etc. Donnie, you\'re close to insanity and an insult to this community.

[composer22]

Oh, come on Raven...who attacking who here? Yeah the steam\'s hot but I think we can take it...everyone\'s entitled to a bad mood once in a while, and I\'d be alittle upset too if I was trying to give pragmatic answers and the next thing Wacky posts all over the forum smudging my work.

I personally appreciate the no nonsense comments...show me a human side to the developers etc.

anyway, having all his soundz...I\'m thankful...best samples in my box...wish they were all like that...

=(

[Simon Ravn]

Composer22, you got to be kidding - DEFENDING Donnie in these matters?

[This message has been edited by Simon Ravn (edited 04-08-2002).]

[Damon]

Donnie, I love your percussion libraries and demos but I have one word for you...
Valium

Lay back and chill.

[donnie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Damon:
Donnie, I love your percussion libraries and demos but I have one word for you...
Valium

Lay back and chill.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you have some I\'m up for it! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Donnie

[donnie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Simon Ravn:
Composer22, you got to be kidding - DEFENDING Donnie in these matters?

[This message has been edited by Simon Ravn (edited 04-08-2002).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Simon,

I think he supporting me more for being honest than anything else. I mean come on man...the only reason why this \"wacky\" guy came on here and blasted me was because of what I said about Gary. He\'s obviously some friend of Gary or probably a beta tester or something and he\'s just shooting off at the mouth to try to get even.

Donnie

[composer22]

Ravn?

Free speech, baby...thats what its about, and honesty. Speaking his mind...NO B.S.

[PaPa Chalk]

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[tob]

you guys should come out on irc and fight like real men http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

[Wacky]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robert Kral:
Donnie,

Can you clarify for me? Are the timpani rolls multisampled chromatically? Can you please respond to this thread with what is contained in the library to those of us who have not yet purchased it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Neither the Single Hits, nor the rolls nor the crescendos are chromatically sampled which begs the question whether or not the timpani is a \"melodic instrument\" or not - in the marketing literature for LOP on Big Fish Audio, it makes note of the fact that all melodic instruments are chromatically sampled.

It makes little difference (to my ear) with the single hits, but with rolls and cresendos it makes a difference.

BTW - I really like the 3 note \"ruffs\" and the timpanis do sound great.


[This message has been edited by Wacky (edited 04-08-2002).]

[Wacky]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by composer22:
I

1) they don\'t do doubles 2) they take a lifetime to master. 3) they get paid $$$$.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well Donnie \"doubled\" on LOP. He and Sean have admitted that they played every instrument on there. If, as you point out, the real professional timpanists don\'t double, it seems that Donnie is being unprofessional by playing every instrument in the Library.

Why is he so adverse to hiring a symphonic, \"non-doubling\" timpanist? How would this invalidate his library? IMHO it could do nothing but improve it. He could concentrate on producing.



[This message has been edited by Wacky (edited 04-08-2002).]

[esperlad]

I have decided to make a new recording using several instruments (including Timpani) from LOP.

I think this version of \'Sleigh Ride\' sounds great! IT\'s a hugh improvment over previous recordings.

I found the timpani to be just fine. I had no problems.

IF anyone would like to hear an mp3 file, please send me an email.

dhrott@sunflower.com

[composer22]

Were talking about doubling in a symphonic orchestra, not a recording session...

[esperlad]

The whole point of this thread is about the quality of the timpani. As I had stated before, it\'s good and usable.

Of course in a symphonic organization, there is a percussionist who mainly plays the timpani, but that does not mean that Sean and Donnie cannot play and record these samples themselves. When they studied percussion at the university, they were responsible for all of the major instruments of the percussion secion. They even got a masters degree! I think they are more than qualified to play and record timpani well. I have everything they have, and everything sounds great!

Most of the people who buys these libraries are going to make recordings and have some sort of a session.

[composer22]

Well, yes and no esperlad...alot of people will be using these timpani for final product.

But one of the points is that if you relaly really want to get great timpani soundz, you are going to have to get a whole library just for that sound - such as UTimp, which was 4 CD\'s alone! It\'s just that rich an instrument, and it\'s just not gonna fit in LOP\'s packaging.

I\'m very satified with both sets...they are the best samples in my library at the moment.

[donnie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by donnie:
Ok you piece of crap this is starting to piss me off. Having an opinion is one thing but posting to every topic you can with the same lies is going overboard.

Everything was recorded by PROFESSIONAL percussionist (Sean and I). We have the degrees and the resume to prove it.

This is obviously some personal thing you have with me. The problem is that you don\'t just effect me but my wife, my son, Sean, and his family.

Donnie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Simon Ravn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by composer22:
Ravn?

Free speech, baby...thats what its about, and honesty. Speaking his mind...NO B.S.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Free speech my a s s - that seems to be an excuse for acting totally inappropriate and offensive. Just because you have the right to say whatever you want, doesn\'t make you less of an a s s hole, does it?

[Simon Ravn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by donnie:
Simon,

I think he supporting me more for being honest than anything else.
Donnie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We don\'t award medals for honesty when the honesty consists of personal attacks, flames and other attitude problems.

[composer22]

Who the hell is giving medals?

Grow some thick skin on your *** ...