What are you really paying for?

[donnie]

It is a little surprising to me the number of libraries out there that are tons of disc that actually have half the data on them. For example, what good does it do you to buy a 15 disc library if some of the discs have 200-400 megs on them and data that is redundant and could have been put on the same disc instead of splitting them onto two or more discs just to rename a program?

It just seems to me that as a developer that consumers would want the most for what they are paying for. I think people deserve more. Is it really worth all the marketing hype to say you have a 35 disc library if it could have been produced on 8 disc\'s. The consumer deserves better programming and better editing (no dead air on the ends!!)

To all developers.....this is real simple...if the shoe doesn\'t fit then don\'t sweat what I just said! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Donnie

[Tokyo Joe]

How many 15 disc libraries are there? I can only think of one.

Hmmm... might you be talking about GOS by chance?

[donnie]

Tokyo,

First of all there are several 10+ disc libraries...secondly, like I said in my last sentence. If the shoe fits then it does...if it doesn\'t it doesn\'t. Please don\'t assume that I am speaking of anyone of anything in particular. I made it real clear I wasn\'t pointing anyone out.

Donnie

[composer22]

Wow Donnie! Fighting words on a saturday!

Fully agree. And as a comsumer who just dished out $^2 on a studio upgrade recently, over 2/3\'s the patches on the disks I received are unusable in terms of mockups etc. Why? Becuase most of the patches are articulation duplications. For simple example, why do I need patches that are DV, Pizz, NV/Pizz Modw when the latter will cover the first two former? Layering unisons? Nope...doubles the instrumentation so it sounds like 2x\'s the number of player on a note - you have - e.g. 12 violins now sound like 24 with 12 plaing arco and 12 playing pizz

Anyway, it continues to into other areas as well such as vel and keysw variants and samples I will never have a need for.

Just give me a decent library that doesnt hog memory IMHO

cheers

[pantonality]

It must be a slow news day in Gigaland. It probably costs me more to store that extra CD or three than it would to burn it. I myself prefer that many smaple developers seem to think that organization is more important that skimping on a few CDs. So this is what we\'re reduced to bitching about sample developers shipping a couple extra CDs, like the extra buck or two would make a difference in the price of GOS.

Time to step back and look at the bigger picture.

Steve

[donnie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pantonality:
It must be a slow news day in Gigaland. It probably costs me more to store that extra CD or three than it would to burn it. I myself prefer that many smaple developers seem to think that organization is more important that skimping on a few CDs. So this is what we\'re reduced to bitching about sample developers shipping a couple extra CDs, like the extra buck or two would make a difference in the price of GOS.

Time to step back and look at the bigger picture.

Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Steve,

I think your missing the point. For example, LOP is four discs. Each disc has on average 698 megs on it. If were to have spread that out accross 8 discs instead of 4 my cost for production would have gone from roughly $3500 to $7000. Now if I have to pay $7000 rather than $3500 guess who the difference in price gets passed too?

Donnie

PS...let me say again since there are a lot of \"sue happy\" people out there. I haven\'t mentioned anyone or any library.



[This message has been edited by donnie (edited 04-06-2002).]

[Jamieh]

I doubt GOS cost has much to do with how many CD\'s it comes on, because you can also order it on 2 DVD\'s

Dan Dean\'s stuff might not fill up every CD, but he markets his library both as a full set or as individual disks, so he intentionally splits out the disks to only contain one instrument.

In general the cost of CD\'s is so low (less that $1 a CD) that I doubt it is that big a deal in the cost.

[Robert Kral]

Donnie,

In regard to your comment about the costs being passed onto the consumer:

At least in the case of GOS I don\'t at all think this is this issue. The proof of this is in all the free updates: several discs have been issued for free to users since its initial release. It\'s all about choices and flexibility.

I don\'t think for one minute that GOS is \"expensive\" because of the number of discs it\'s released on.

But your overall comment reminds me of a gripe I had when I was purchasing Roland series libraries. Orchestral Family discs were fully loaded, but many other discs were only 200 megs and you didn\'t know it until you bought it.

Fair practice would be to indicate how many gigs/megs a libary contains, based on ACTUAL data not number of discs. In fact it would be nice to see this as standard on every library to help indicate what you are getting.

[donnie]

Whats funny to me is that everyone keeps bringing up and defending GOS. Why? Like I said in my inital post...if the shoe doens\'t fit then don\'t sweat it....

Besides...I programmed Dan\'s stuff and his discs are crammed full. Some of his discs are even over 700 megs!

Donnie

[composer22]

London percussion\'s sweetly packaged. I can picknchoose what i need and its crammed.

But all I need per instrument on other manufacturers is two files:

1 light version with every articulation and variant for tutti sketcing.

1 heavy version with every articulation and variant - for sectional mix down.

[KingIdiot]

hmmm..

I hardly think that CD space is whats driving the price of libraries.

I mean come on!!!

It can be said about ANY big library that it could be condensed.

Dan Dean Woods...Dan Dean Brass, GOS, Purrrrfect Drums, VotA.

and dead space? come on.. the amount of dead space in these libraries, might add up to less than half of one extra CD

Also about filling up a CD to the max, whats the use of FORCING an instrument or multiples to fit on one CD if it involves comprimising the quality of the instrument? This is the reason why DD stuff takes up a full CD.

Donnie, or any developer for that matter, if you are going to raise the price of your library any significant amount (more than 5 bucks) becuase it costs 7000 instead of 3500 you have no faith that anyone will purchase your library. and you are manufacturing too many http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

that amount can be made up in a few sales especially on the high end libraries.

Come on this is jsut a useless complaint. IMO. If it doesn\'t drive the price of the library up more than 5 bucks (which I doubt it does in most cases), whats the care?

and if anyone starts complaining about sample gloat/HD space... for crying out loud use an AKAI!!

I\'ll take that shoe and throw it out the window, cuz it smells like it stepped in the poopoo it was DIGGING up http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

this is meant to say that you\'re digging deep to find this complaint Donnie.

BTW the reason alot of people bring up GOS, is probably because you\'ve been known to attack Gary and hold online grudges.

I\'m not being mean or judgemental BTW http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif its just an observation from watching people react on this board.


------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 04-06-2002).]

[B]

Donnie,
if a library is one CD for lots of £££ and is only half full then I\'d be upset, If a library is 15 CD\'s with some not full, but the sounds are good and well programed then I\'m happy. I pay for good sounds no matter how many CD\'s a library consists of.

Also, I like to deal with companies who answers there emails http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Check the info@ds will you, please.

Brian

[Jamieh]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Whats funny to me is that everyone keeps bringing up and defending GOS. Why? Like I said in my inital post...if the shoe doens\'t fit then don\'t sweat it....
Besides...I programmed Dan\'s stuff and his discs are crammed full. Some of his discs are even over 700 megs!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I only mentioned GOS and Dan Dean because they are the two biggest libraries (in terms of CD\'s) that I own. I didn\'t check to see how full the CD\'s were. I should have figured Dan\'s stuff was cram-packed in there just because of the size of the patches!

[donnie]

First of all I never brought up GOS and the fact that a lot of people jumped to defend it only says one thing. I didn\'t see anyone saying Kip\'s cd\'s aren\'t full and defending them.......thats because they don\'t fit the profile of what I was saying.

A couple of you want to keep this me against Gary going so let me just say for the record....I don\'t like Gary. I\'ll make no bones about that. Part of the reason is because he calls himself a developer which I don\'t believe he is. When I, or anyone else does a library, I do the following....

set everything up myself.
record/engineer everything myself
play everything myself
edit everything myself
progam everything myself

When Gary does a project he pays someone do these things and having deep pockets doesn\'t make you a developer. I\'m not saying that you have to do all of the above but writing checks doesn\'t cut it. If that were true Bill Gates could be the best \"sample developer\" of all time!

Also from what I\'ve heard of GOS I don\'t like it and I think it\'s way overhyped. I still think that the Prosonus strings (which I did not record) play better. There are also several other developers out there that think this also but as usual I\'m the only one with the balls to say anything. Oh wait, Nick said something awhile back and you all jumped on him like he was a criminal too.

You guys can think of me however you like but I\'m just being honest which is something that lacks in todays society. It makes me want to puke when I see someone kiss someones butt to there face only to turn around a minute later and bad mouth them. I just choose to tell it like it is...

Donnie

[This message has been edited by donnie (edited 04-06-2002).]

[composer22]

Cool! Damned straight to the point! I do appreciate honesty...wish I had that opinion before I paid all that money for GOS. =(

As much as I like GOS, I dont see the value in sme of the hype - like recording at lincoln center or pictures of each violin or having top talent and instruments in an ensemble setting blabla.

As for renting engineers and talent, well, doesnt bother me
1) filmscore composers do this all the time and take credit for the score

2) If you are paying top notch talent to get a good product and are the project manager, I have no qualms about putting that name on the product.

Need now to look at additional libraries!

[David Abraham]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by donnie:
....I don\'t like Gary. I\'ll make no bones about that. Part of the reason is because he calls himself a developer which I don\'t believe he is. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You guys are making me laugh. There just has to be a more \"flaming gun\" reason than this not to like someone.

Actually keep it up, it might be that the \"hot bloodedness\" is a necessary ingredient for killer sample libraries http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

keep on keepin on...

-david abraham

[composer22]

I believe Donnie can dislike or like anyone he wants and it doesnt bother me a bit, concidering the quality of his work. I purchased UMarimbaVib, UTimpani and LondonOP and think they are incredible individual instrument recordings.

But, how do you battle the fact that these Gary samples are string sections - wha? is he supposed to play each instrument in the orchestra? expected to get great engineering recording of string sections himself w/o wasting money and time?

The comparison doesnt scale...you need more than one person involved on projects of this size.

Easy for me to coordinate recording a piano myself. Not so easy coordinating 50 musicians in one or two take$$...

[KingIdiot]

I still dont get how people saying they dont like GOS is anymore honest than me saying I like GOS.

I may focus on potential more than anything, but its the same way I feel about LOP, VotA, Dan Dean stuff, Kip\'s stuff (which BTW I still feel his demos dont do justice).

Getting back to the topic, maybe thats why I dont care so much about library Sizes and CD count. I do think having a lot of raw source material is a positive, mainly becuase I like having options to customize a library to suit my needs. Redudndant/unedited data, even unprogrammed (on top of programmed data) would be a plus for me. I know I might be in the minority on that. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

I\'m still surprised at how many people here want to \"be\" Hans Zimmer or a sampling musician equivilent, and think that a library will get them there...or even is supposed to be able to get them there out of the box.

One thing I\'ve finally learned is that a NO library will be everything to everyone out of the box. 15 CDs or not.

If the library is 50 CDs and gives the end user alot of options, GREAT!. If its that much mroe money, then offer a \"common instruments\" version with only the \"often used\" instruemtns, for a little bit less, and the rest for a little bit more.

oh BTw, composer, I think you\'re still looking at libraries as a mockup source, and some people actually use them for final productions, having more raw source material gives more variety. IMO any sound source/library will get VERY old after time, having more source data gives a bit of chance for different sounds.

If that weren\'t the case alot of us wouldn\'t be buying multiple libraries for the same sounds/instruments.

------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 04-06-2002).]

[composer22]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KingIdiot:
...oh BTw, composer, I think you\'re still looking at libraries as a mockup source, and some people actually use them for final productions, having more raw source material gives more variety. IMO any sound source/library will get VERY old after time, having more source data gives a bit of chance for different sounds.

If that weren\'t the case alot of us wouldn\'t be buying multiple libraries for the same sounds/instruments.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm interesting KingI:

I wouldn\'t be looking at it as only a mockup service if I could get a decent library that had enough service to fit my aethetic AND sounded genuine. I know thats alot to ask out of a box, and I believe the raw source idea MAY be the best workaround that you are suggesting.

How about this hypothetical:

I call my favorite sample consultant and tell him my needs. He give me some advice and we pick the patches out of the library and he ships those to me instead of a whole bucket on CD. If I decide I need additional\'s, I give him a call and we find something else to enhance my own private stock. If I need custom work done on the sounds I did order, I can ask him to do it or I can do it with some help from him for an extra few $$$.

I\'d pay for that service kindly, especially if the library to pick and choose is high quality and GOOD.

I dunno, forgive me for dreaming

[KingIdiot]

ahh what a dream http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

I\'m there with yah for sure http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

as close as I can see are the \"update\" ideas that Scarbee, Dan, Nick, and Gary are doing.

even paid yearly subscription updates would be marvelous.

Its a nightmare for developers to do this AND keep up with watermarking, but it would be an awseome options

Another thing I\'ve been looking at is sharing techniques with everyone, and even Acoustic Models/impulses where it can be done.

EQ and some reverbs can be modeled pretty well. I\'m still learning how it all works, but it looks to be an option, that isn\'t that difficult

I\'ve also been looking into sharing EXTENSIVE techniues via files that can be shared

take dfor example a Vegas file. I can save the vegas file with extensive fading/mixing/crossfading/edits without any source file data. The end user can provide the source files if they have the same library (juat export) and viola,all the edits are now shared.

Its an involved process, more so for the person willign to share. Sicne I do alot of this anyway, its not so much of a big deal, but I\'d love to do it wil ALL available libraries. It would require too much from my own pocket book tho. Now if developers wanted to give me free libraries...or even an individual who wanted tme to edit their library, bought me a copy http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/frown.gif) Id be more than willing to look into what I could do http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif heheheheheee

------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[Simon Ravn]

Uhm I just got home from town, drunk and all, and I simply cant take this thread seriously if Donnies points it at GOS. I will have to pick it up later. This it too ridiculous....

[composer22]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Simon Ravn:
Uhm I just got home from town, drunk and all, and I simply cant take this thread seriously if Donnies points it at GOS. I will have to pick it up later. This it too ridiculous....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Oops well see what the Ravn has to say when he is sober =)

[donnie]

the funny thing is that this started having nothing to do with Gary or GOS. I still can\'t figure out why it even came up in the first place. Like I said before no one has jumped to the defense of any of Dan\'s libraries....

Donnie

[composer22]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by donnie:
the funny thing is that this started having nothing to do with Gary or GOS...
Donnie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ME either. I thought you had a good point, myself...after spending the last week and a half loading samples from the zillion of CD\'s I got in the mail...only then to have to wade through the mass confusion of useless permutations. Glad I got that 80gig drive. So far, my vote is with your libraries, in terms of organization, ease of use and quality...

[KingIdiot]

I have....

as well as Nick, and Gary. Any BIG library.

Not a strict defense of one particular library.

the only thing I focused on GOS for was the whole. Honesty thing. Dont ignore that fact and say \"everyone\". I\'m tired of being lumped into the \"hype machine\" that everyone seems to associate with libraries.

I place my honest opinions just like alot of you guys, but any time I post something good it \"nice\" it seems that a few people think I\'m doing it to get in good with developers or be nice to them.

Dammit, I\'m just tired of complaining and can see the good things. There\'s only been a few libraries that have bothered me, Dan Dean\'s Woodwinds. I finally got a breath controller, its going to take ALOT of time to learn,..we\'ll see if it adds any functionality to the library.

Franz\'s upright bass, drives me nuts for the price, as well as the tenor....GREAT tone on the soft expressive patches.

recently I got a few of Kips libraries. I like them from the little I\'ve played with them. I dont find them to be an end all solution for the instruments he\'s sampled. Still the tones a PHENOMONAL. the Bose is a great piano for Jazzy/boppy solo stuff.

Dan\'s Brass are great. I see this library only being as big as it is because the dynamic variations are fantastic.

GOS, each patch sounds different, and I find the use each one has. The basses aren\'t good. They sound too small and too close. I\'ve said this before and mentioned it to Gary. He\'s looking into updating them, and I\'ve got my own ideas.

VotA, always loved the raw samples. HAted the original programming. LOVE the new programming. I still ahve some programming ideas and have been slowly doing them when I have the time. and will share Art files.

LOP, awesome sounds. Still hate the decay control. Wish it was layered samples with full control of the room mics and \"closer\" mics. Its not. Still thats an easy fix for me. Make my own \"wet\" samples and layer. \"BOOM\" done.

even libraries I once put off have taken a new light once I\'ve started thinking of what I \"could\" do with them. Ethno World. I\'d always disliked this library. I\'m finding new techniques to make it more playable, and now WISHING it had more sample data.

there.... there are some HONEST opinions on libraries. Of course. They\'ll be ignored and the \"hype machine\" will be the focus.

Some of you guys drive me nuts!!

What about helping people instead of complaining?!?!

This is in no way helping someone. Its not helping an end user, even by the notion that it might stir better development from developers. It could infact kill something I like from librearies. \"extras\" or \"raw materials\". Yes I want better programming. ALWAYS, but dont call the rest useless.



------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[Jamieh]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Like I said before no one has jumped to the defense of any of Dan\'s libraries....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, I said quite early on that since Dan sells his instruments individually, it would be more than acceptable for him to be release a \"not full\" CD if that was all the instrument took. Obviously he doesn\'t do this as you said so yourself, so what defending does Dan need? Heck, I wouldn\'t care if his solo brass library consisted of 10 quarter-empty disks because the library is great regardless of the size.

I see this as a non-issue. I couldn\'t care less how many CD\'s come with a library, I just care what the library sounds like. I think most of us feel the same way.

[This message has been edited by Jamieh (edited 04-06-2002).]

[SCARBEE]

Hi,

Oh no not again http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Please consider the overall reputation of Sample Library developers.

Maybe we should use a developer forum for this kind of discussion?

Thomas

[This message has been edited by SCARBEE (edited 04-07-2002).]

[sri_bubba]

With you all the way, King.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KingIdiot:
Not a strict defense of one particular library.

the only thing I focused on GOS for was the whole. Honesty thing.

I place my honest opinions just like alot of you guys, but any time I post something good it \"nice\" it seems that a few people think I\'m doing it to get in good with developers or be nice to them.

Dammit, I\'m just tired of complaining and can see the good things. there.... there are some HONEST opinions on libraries. Of course. They\'ll be ignored and the \"hype machine\" will be the focus.

Some of you guys drive me nuts!!

What about helping people instead of complaining?!?!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Simon Ravn]

I must admit that I am not a big fan of Dan Dean Solo Woodwinds or Solo Brass. Especially not the woodwinds. Donnie, I think you have a point here with some libraries... I was THIS close to buying the woodwinds library, until I heard how a sustained flute sounded, how a sustained bassoon sounded etc. That scared me away from the library, since there was no expression in the samples at all. Since then I\'ve been joking that that library could fit as well on one CD as on 10 (or whatever it really takes up) if the samples were looped, since they would sound the same with very short loops. I don\'t know if this is the same for the brass, but the demo I heard, the trumpet certainly sounded like it could be looped pretty much the same way. So I have yet to buy a Dan Dean library, except for the basses which are great! I hope his brass ensemble library will not be played like this.

GOS is a totally different story. It could not be looped easily, without noticeable loop points. It takes up the space it should.

[scf3]

\"Also from what I\'ve heard of GOS I don\'t like it and I think it\'s way overhyped. I still think that the Prosonus strings (which I did not record) play better. \"
I would strongly disagree with this statement. I just bought Prosonus and in almost every instrument there are 1 or two notes that are way out of tune. Was this a limitation in the number of samples or was it just not checked?

[Simon Ravn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by donnie:
[B]
....I don\'t like Gary.... from what I\'ve heard of GOS I don\'t like.....

Donnie

[B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah. I think there is no doubt about your objectivity here.

[Jamieh]

Simon, I think the strength of the DD Solo Brass library are the attacks, which IMO are better than anything else out there. But that being said, I\'ve been able to play sustained lines that sounded quite realistic with the library. And I like the fact that the notes are held out for a long time--I disagree that you could have looped the sounds and made it sound as good. The notes are held quite consistently, but I don\'t think this is necessarily a bad thing.

I don\'t have the DD woodwinds though. I never heard a demo that convinced me I wanted the library. In general though, with both of the DD libraries I have (brass and strings) I like the library a lot more than I thought I would listening to the demos.

[This message has been edited by Jamieh (edited 04-07-2002).]

[Mark UK]

I have to agree with Jamie here.

I was very unsure about the Dan Dean woodwind demos that I had heard but following the feedback from users decided to go along with the purchase. I think the demos on Dan\'s site are really awful and quite honestly almost made me decide not to buy the set.

I have only just received them, and although not had much luck with loading (see thread on Error 5 code), I am pleasantly surprised with how they sound compared to the demos.

As with all libraries, it seems that it is down to the skill of the midi musician and the orchestrator. Thomas J swears by Kirk Hunter and, listening to his demos, I can understand why he is happy.

I am not sure what I am saying anymore, so am going to sign off....

Oh yes, I meant to say that it is difficult to assess a library based on what you hear of others\' work. It is scary however to make such a large investment to find that the libraries are not as good as you hoped. Luckily, this time, I think the Dan Dean libraries will do me just fine.

[composer22]

I should point out that I have DDSStrings and they are nothing like the demo. Night and day. Im glad I trusted some of teh comments on this board else I would never have concidered them based on those scrappy demos.

I can live with the brass and wwinds. For the money, I am satisfied. Researching this board they came recommended. The common recommendation for Sole Brass, WW and Strings on the board here seems to be:

DDSW + Xsample
DDSB + QLB
DDSS + Xsample disk 10 + 11

If anyone knows other combinations, please fill me in...

[Synth2k]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by donnie:

When I, or anyone else does a library, I do the following....

{snip}
play everything myself
{snip}

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yikes, I wonder how that would work with 20+ string players.

I think Yamaha makes a robotic attachment that allows for an additional 40 arms to be installed on a string player. It makes the player quite cranky and a walking nightmare in a fine china store, but an ingenious invention it is indeed.

Ryan.


------------------
Sonic Control
www..com (\"http://www..com\")
Giga Users Network at
www..com/gigasampler/ (\"http://www..com/gigasampler/\")

[donnie]

Ryan,

Don\'t you have a lame site nobody visits to worry about?

Donnie

[Synth2k]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by donnie:
Ryan,

Don\'t you have a lame site nobody visits to worry about?

Donnie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was that an insult? Did I attack you? Where is this coming from now?

Ryan.




------------------
Sonic Control
www..com (\"http://www..com\")
Giga Users Network at
www..com/gigasampler/ (\"http://www..com/gigasampler/\")

[lanesp]

And now it is Donnie\'s turn to reply. No, this is not predictable (in a sarcastic tone). Why don\'t you guy\'s email each other. Or maybe other\'s enjoy the banter. If so, my apologies for butting in.

[donnie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Synth2k:
Was that an insult? Did I attack you? Where is this coming from now?

Ryan.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Give me a break Ryan....this is what you always do....you try to make some smart remark and then play innocent like \"oh, who me, I didn\'t do anything....poor me\"

Whatever, your not even a blip on the screen....

Donnie

[lanesp]

Yup, there it is.

OK, go Ryan.

[Tokyo Joe]

Is humour banned from this forum? And no I\'m not Ryan\'s best friend or Gary\'s for that matter.

Donnie, are you this rude offline as well?

[Jamieh]

I think Donnie\'s just POed because of the Wacky posts. Plus there is history with Ryan. However, I thought Ryan\'s comment was somewhat humorous myself.

I certainly don\'t expect sample developers to play all the instruments themselves, nor do I want them to. I can\'t imagine Donnie actually meant that all sample developers should play all the instruments themselves.


[This message has been edited by Jamieh (edited 04-07-2002).]

[Synth2k]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by donnie:
Give me a break Ryan....this is what you always do....you try to make some smart remark and then play innocent like \"oh, who me, I didn\'t do anything....poor me\"

Whatever, your not even a blip on the screen....

Donnie

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right. Like I have time for this circus again. Grow up and quit being such a d i c k to everyone.

Ryan.

------------------
Sonic Control
www..com (\"http://www..com\")
Giga Users Network at
www..com/gigasampler/ (\"http://www..com/gigasampler/\")

[This message has been edited by Synth2k (edited 04-07-2002).]

[lanesp]

ALL RIGHT, you guys don\'t dissapoint.

Ryan, pretty darn clever with the spaces between the letters.

Now Donnie, say something about his momma.

[This message has been edited by lanesp (edited 04-08-2002).]

[Tokyo Joe]

Isn\'t the role of a sample producer similar to that of a record producer? He or she is a catalist, overseeing the whole project. They don\'t always pick up an instrument and play but their contribution is just as important as anything recorded to tape.

[composer22]

Dan dean\'s WW (Flute) isn\'t that bad out of the box. The vibrato versions I believe are usable and expressive. The Non Vibrato versions are...well, another story. I think I can patch-flip between the two and get what I need but it will take some more experimentation. I had the same impression when I first played DDSWW, but after some fiddling around with the r-verb, some will suite well, but the NV\'s seem to sound synthesized and loopy IMHO.

The DDSBrass is the same way. A couple good patches...the rest...*sigh

I know he has an upgrade to the WW\'s. I just ordered this so we will see if it makes any difference.

Mo memory...hold the loops and the mustard please...

[Deep White]

Donnie,

GOS or not, there must have been at least ONE LIBRARY to make you wondered and thus posted this topic.

So what is it?

You\'ve already said you don\'t like Gary, and thus I don\'t see any point in \"trying not to point out 1 specific library\" anymore.

[Munsie]

\"Please don\'t assume that I am speaking of anyone of anything in particular. I made it real clear I wasn\'t pointing anyone out.\"

PLEASE mention the library in question. I see to many end users sorry for speaking their honest opinions about a library they purchased. Bring it on.... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[ChrisAxia]

Donnie,

It seems that you have nothing better to do than to try and upset people. Is your life so empty that you need to behave this way? Most people here are trying to help each other, not cause stupid arguments. This is possibly the most stupid topic started here in a long time. When a blank CDR costs 30 cents (my GOS CDs are NOT pressed), is squeezing a library from 15 to 12 CDs gonna make any difference to a $1000 library? come on!

I have heard good things about much of your library, BUT PURELY because of your behaviour on this forum, I will NEVER purchase any of your CDs! I\'m sure I am not the only person on this forum that feels this way.

I wonder how many thousands of dollars you have lost in potential new customers? Not very good business practice, wouldn\'t you say?

Chris

[Bruce A. Richardson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Simon Ravn:
I must admit that I am not a big fan of Dan Dean Solo Woodwinds or Solo Brass. Especially not the woodwinds. Donnie, I think you have a point here with some libraries... I was THIS close to buying the woodwinds library, until I heard how a sustained flute sounded, how a sustained bassoon sounded etc. That scared me away from the library, since there was no expression in the samples at all. Since then I\'ve been joking that that library could fit as well on one CD as on 10 (or whatever it really takes up) if the samples were looped, since they would sound the same with very short loops. I don\'t know if this is the same for the brass, but the demo I heard, the trumpet certainly sounded like it could be looped pretty much the same way. So I have yet to buy a Dan Dean library, except for the basses which are great! I hope his brass ensemble library will not be played like this.

GOS is a totally different story. It could not be looped easily, without noticeable loop points. It takes up the space it should.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Simon, you don\'t have much credibility if you have never worked with the libraries in question. In fact, the Dan Dean libraries have excellent expressive qualities. There isn\'t a woodwind library out there which has the degree of subtle timbre shifts available. You make a fairly bold claim, saying that this library could be a one-disc looped collection and retain its value. In fact, you are quite mistaken.

Honestly, I believe you are mistaking the consistency of playing for a lack of expressive quality. Player for player, there is not a brass or woodwind library in existance today with the quality of playing and tones. Not only that, but I\'ve yet to find one with which a person can realistically program lines of fast moving notes.

To wit, if you wish to disprove what I\'m saying with some degree of authority, then mock up my Holst Suite and Bankersangerlieder demos with any other available brass and woodwind libraries. Scores for both are available for loan from almost any decent university. But I can tell you right now, you\'ll be walking a difficult road. You\'ll find that most other collections of these instruments will not move well from note to note, or play lines with any degree of musical intent without very serious editing time.

[Simon Ravn]

Bruce, I am not so much after solo brass as solo woodwinds. I just know that what I heard of both libraries didnt make me want to buy them. I then concluded that, alright, demos might not be a fair way to evaluate them. So I had a friend record some single notes of each instrument and I was pretty shocked to find no expression at all. Where is the expression you\'re talking about? Yes there are non-vib and vib samples, but what I heard was a constant LFO-like vibrato on the vibrato samples and a dead triangle/sinus sound on the non-vib instruments. To me, Miroslavs woodwinds are still the best around - sadly. But I might take up your challenge. I\'ll let you know what happens http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[Z6]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Simon Ravn:
So I had a friend record some single notes of each instrument and I was pretty shocked to find no expression at all. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whooo! That sounds suspiciously like a \'new sample library\' to me.

Dan, send the boys round!

[PaPa Chalk]

For all users/developers foul language will not be tolerated on this forum. Furthermore the purpose of this forum is not a platform for bantering or flame wars. We as a giga community need to focus on issues that will help each other and in turn propel giga and giga related products to higher levels.

This forum was built on you the users/developers. The knowledge based here is a direct reflection of users/developers across the planet. We are thankful for all those who support this site. We would appreciate if all users/developers respect the forum rules.


PaPa Chalk & Desound
http://www.northernsounds.com (\"http://www.northernsounds.com\")
Forum Rules
Welcome to the GigaSampler user forums. This Site is by Giga Sampler user\'s for GigaSampler user\'s. We hope this will be of help to everyone. Please keep this discussion free of bickering with each other. We are here to help each other get the best use out of Tascam GigaSampler/Studio. We are user\'s of their awesome product.
If you can help some one with a problem or you have some tips about GigaSampler/Studio please post an article.\"
Please respect others on this site no swearing or name calling of others this could get you banned.

Please no requests for or trading of copyright software or sample Cd\'s. You will be banned if you do so.
Please no third party commercial advertising in topic or reply posts it\'s not fair to others who are paying to advertise. If you pay to advertise your free to post this helps to keep this site up and running. If you would like to advertise please contact us at
nsounds@northernsounds.com.


PaPa Chalk & Desound

[David Abraham]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lanesp:
Yup, there it is.

OK, go Ryan.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL!

-david abraham

[Simon Ravn]

Hehe, mind you, I am not using them for anything. Besides I would have to concentrate all flute-lines around B3-D4 or it would start sounding weird.

[Micheal Chase]

Reading all this, it makes me wonder how many sample users would have survived back in the 80s with an emulator II and a few disks of 512kb samples. Honestly, the sample quality of all these libraries is magnificent compared to the old days. Its talent that knoes how to make music, not samples.

Dig out your old trombone and sample a few notes if you can\'t get on with Donnie\'s libraries. Personally I think they\'re superb and I couldn\'t give a toss wether he\'s up his own arse or not, just as long as he keeps churning out the necessaries.

Sometimes I think that we\'re all just a little too spoiled.