The Economy - Is the Sky Falling???

[Garritan]

I was perusing the news this morning with coffee in hand. It seems like everywhere you turn there is quite a bit of bad news on the economic front.

Here is a sampling from this morning's news:
Oil hits new record of $111... (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aiD8YauDjd9I&refer=worldwide) – Bloomberg
Gold hits $1,000 record high... (http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080313/markets_gold.html) - Yahoo Business
Foreclosure rate jumps 60% in February (http://www.cnbc.com/id/23608299) – CNBC
Stocks Struggle... (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080313/wall_street.html) - Yahoo Business
Retail Sales Plunge... (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080313/economy.html?.v=7) - Yahoo Business
Federal deficit hits record in February (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080312/bs_nm/usa_budget_dc_2) – Reuters
Euro extends advance against dollar to record $1.56 (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aXlfs3WBQXNc&refer=home) – Bloomberg
Fed takes boldest action since The Depression... (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/03/12/cnfed112.xml) – Telegraph UK
Chrysler to shut down for 2 weeks (http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/13/news/companies/Chrysler_shutdown.ap/index.htm?cnn=yes) - CNNMoney
The Fed's worst nightmare (http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/13/markets/morningbuzz/index.htm?postversion=2008031311) – CNN Money
Zuckerman says U.S. economy may face "perfect storm" (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aHLKk89J4tW8) – Bloomberg
U.S. already in recession, CFOs believe (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-survey13mar13,1,1617705.story) – Los Angeles Times
Dollar Falls Below 100 Yen as Carlyle Bond Fund Moves Closer to Collapse (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ayR.KeuSK8y8&refer=home) – BloombergAnyone have a clue as to what is going on? ~| :confused: ~| :confused:

[efiebke]

Yea. . . I have an idea. . .

From an economical point of view, we're screwed!!! :wow: :eek:


:o :( :mad:


I must admit to feeling very grateful to having full-time employment for both my wife and myself. It does take our two incomes to afford our lovely home plus expenses. Hopefully our health will remain good so that we can continue to work full-time. It is sad to know that others are not so lucky. I was driving through a near-by town the other day and noticed a few homes in that area that are up for foreclosure. Sad. . . .

[Stephanie Pray]

the sky already fell on me, so my guess would be yes :(

[scalp]

Sorry my English is poor ... But we have built a world where humanity is at the service of the economy, while the economy is expected to serve people. It is not possible to inflate a balloon indefinitely, as the stock market seems to think.

[Styxx]

the sky already fell on me, so my guess would be yes :(
Awe, not so ... we will all hold it up for you! :)

[Stephanie Pray]

Awe, not so ... we will all hold it up for you! :)

Ahh...thanks Styxx!! You're the best!!

Don't worry, it's not as bad as it was for me a little while ago, and is starting to improve, and things are looking up.

Take care my friend

Love you all :)

[etLux]

The problem is that there is not enough poverty
in the world. This, by inverse application of
various arcane financial instruments, has resulted
in a reduction in the value of wealth.

Our wise and noble leaders have realized this,
and they are diligently working to manipulate the
economy so that, shortly, we will all be abjectly
poor.

Thereafter, wealth will immediately regain its
proper value.

Now. How does this benefit all of us? Allow me
to explain. The virtue in this scenario is that
each of us shall be given the opportunity for many
new and fascinating challenges.

For instance, be prepared to pay $5/gallon for gas
in the not-too-distant future. Heating oil, your
electric bill and other costs will rise in kind --
creating a wonderful new puzzle for a great many
of us: whether to drive to work and keep our houses
warm in winter... or buy food.

As I see it, this is the govermnent benevolently
implementing a solution to the growing obesity
problem in this country. Frozen people cannot
eat, so they will heat their houses and continue
driving to work to pay for it. But they will
cease to eat, and consequently lose weight.

Having solved the obesity problem, this artful
manipulation of our economy will likewise then
solve the housing problem.

Simply put, too many people own homes. Why is
that a problem? Well, if too many people own
homes, the American dream, what would they have
to aspire to, to strive for? If people are no
longer motivated to work hard to achieve that
dream, well, that could cause a slow-down in the
economy!

But in a brilliant move, our government thought-
fully deregulated the banking industry; not
only allowing but encouraging the banks and
lending institutions to participate in wholesale
fraud and usury in their practices. The result
of this is wildfire growth in bankruptcy and
foreclosure on millions of American homeowners.

Thus, stripped of their homes, they shall again
be properly motivated to work hard and be fully
productive members of our society... spurring
economic growth in the process.

On the overall, surveying this shrewdly thought
out, carefully planned control of our economy
and our lives, one cannot help but bend one's
knee and bow in admiration at the loving care
our elected leaders lavish upon us.

Best,




David
www.DavidSosnowski.com

[clonewar]

Gary, I think this calls for 'Garritan's Official Economy Jumpstart 50% off Steinway Sale'. Or something like that!

:D

[Raymond62]

Dutch stuff

All prices are in Euros (1.52 US $ = 1 Euro €) and per month - estimated values

Income: 1,600 - 2,000 net
Mortgage/rental: 500
Health insurance: 300 for family with 2 kids
Car insurance plus taxes: 200
Life insurance: 100
Heating, electricity: 100
Internet access: 13 - 35, depending on the ADSL speed
Telephone: 45 average
------------------------------
...don't complain about your gas prices, they are here 1.52 per liter

Raymond
[and still I have money to save for Garritan stuff]

[Pingu]

...don't complain about your gas prices, they are here 1.52 per liter



Here they're about $2.16 per liter.

[etLux]

Here they're about $2.16 per liter.



The reasons why gasoline is so "expensive" throughout
Europe are well understood.

1.)
You buy the stuff in liters. Like anything else, if
you bought it in larger quantities (like US gallons),
it would be much cheaper.

2.)
You have more countries in the same equivalent space
than the US. If you would combine all the countries
into one, you'd have much more buying power and
the consequent ability to negotiate lower pricing.

3.)
You drive smaller cars. If, rather than looking at
the absolute cost, you look at the proportion between
the size of European gas tanks and American gas guzzler
gas tanks, you'd see that that proportion works out
exactly equal in terms of relative costs... hence, you're
not really paying any more than we do in the US. By the
same logic, if you'd simply get bigger cars it would cost
you, in proportion, significantly less.

4.)
The gasoline sold in Europe is shipped on smaller
boats because, as said earlier, you buy in smaller
quantities (liters versus gallons). This means more
shipments for the same amount of gasoline, and hence,
higher transportation costs. Thus, buying in larger
quantities means they could ship to you in bigger
boats and reduce the transportation costs.

5.)
Finally, many of you drive on the wrong side of the
road. Compared to driving on the right side of the
road, this imparts more inertia to the gasoline and
requires more energy, hence less efficiency, when
pumping the gasoline from the car's tank to the
car's engine.

Best,



David
www.DavidSosnowski.com

P.S.:

Snorlax told me to say this.

[Styxx]

David ... etLux 'ol buddy. ~| That's just too much for this old brain to handle. :confused: :D

[capellen]

Living in a small country, I have to follow many business reports very often... I would say there are many reasons why the global economy is so unstable:

1. daily raising calls for energy and sources, but same amount for sale
2. new, rapid growing economics in Asia need same sources to produce much more and cheaper then the "old" economics
3. Creation of European Union and Euro currency weak position of US and dollar on international markets
4. Growing public deficit in US and slowing down economy growth = pessimism on dollar
5. Instability in Middle East and Latin America, countries for crude oil production

It seems like a time prior significant global changes....

[capellen]

The reasons why gasoline is so "expensive" throughout
Europe are well understood.

1.)
You buy the stuff in liters. Like anything else, if
you bought it in larger quantities (like US gallons),
it would be much cheaper.

2.)
You have more countries in the same equivalent space
than the US. If you would combine all the countries
into one, you'd have much more buying power and
the consequent ability to negotiate lower pricing.

3.)
You drive smaller cars. If, rather than looking at
the absolute cost, you look at the proportion between
the size of European gas tanks and American gas guzzler
gas tanks, you'd see that that proportion works out
exactly equal in terms of relative costs... hence, you're
not really paying any more than we do in the US. By the
same logic, if you'd simply get bigger cars it would cost
you, in proportion, significantly less.

4.)
The gasoline sold in Europe is shipped on smaller
boats because, as said earlier, you buy in smaller
quantities (liters versus gallons). This means more
shipments for the same amount of gasoline, and hence,
higher transportation costs. Thus, buying in larger
quantities means they could ship to you in bigger
boats and reduce the transportation costs.

5.)
Finally, many of you drive on the wrong side of the
road. Compared to driving on the right side of the
road, this imparts more inertia to the gasoline and
requires more energy, hence less efficiency, when
pumping the gasoline from the car's tank to the
car's engine.

Best,



David
www.DavidSosnowski.com

P.S.:

Snorlax told me to say this.

Interesting remark, David. However, what about the situation in Czech republic: we do get crude oil via main pipeline from Russia... and still pay $7,50 per gallon:mad:

[klassical]

Don't worry. If you're American (and file taxes) you will soon be getting your $600 Economic Stimulus Package check in the mail, or as I like to call it, the "Sample Library Economic Stimulus" check. :D

- k

[etLux]

REBUTTAL!

etLux, you're a moron! Why, I've never seen
such fallacious thinking in my life! Not to mention,
your wardrobe is atrocious...


The reasons why gasoline is so "expensive" throughout
Europe are well understood.

1.)
You buy the stuff in liters. Like anything else, if
you bought it in larger quantities (like US gallons),
it would be much cheaper.


That's absurd on the face of it. To get it in US
gallons, they'd have to buy it from the US and
then ship it over there... obviously that would
cost more.



2.)
You have more countries in the same equivalent space
than the US. If you would combine all the countries
into one, you'd have much more buying power and
the consequent ability to negotiate lower pricing.


You've got this exactly backwards. It's not that
they have more countries in the same space -- the
fact is they have less space in more countries.




3.)
You drive smaller cars. If, rather than looking at
the absolute cost, you look at the proportion between
the size of European gas tanks and American gas guzzler
gas tanks, you'd see that that proportion works out
exactly equal in terms of relative costs... hence, you're
not really paying any more than we do in the US. By the
same logic, if you'd simply get bigger cars it would cost
you, in proportion, significantly less.


Oh, come on! This is nonsense. It's plain for anyone
to see that what they need to do is make shorter
roads... so they'd use less gas going from one place
to another.



4.)
The gasoline sold in Europe is shipped on smaller
boats because, as said earlier, you buy in smaller
quantities (liters versus gallons). This means more
shipments for the same amount of gasoline, and hence,
higher transportation costs. Thus, buying in larger
quantities means they could ship to you in bigger
boats and reduce the transportation costs.


This is so bogus it makes me laugh. Even if they
did ship it in larger boats, the gasoline wouldn't be
any bigger when it got there! At least, I don't
think it would. Maybe we should ask Snorlax.



5.)
Finally, many of you drive on the wrong side of the
road. Compared to driving on the right side of the
road, this imparts more inertia to the gasoline and
requires more energy, hence less efficiency, when
pumping the gasoline from the car's tank to the
car's engine.


Where do you get these ideas? If the gasoline has
more inertia, it would be harder to get it to the engine;
hence, they'd actually use less!

Best,



David
www.DavidSosnowski.com

[etLux]

REBUTTAL!

etLux, you're a moron! Why, I've never seen
such fallacious thinking in my life! Not to mention,
your wardrobe is atrocious...



Now, see here, you two, if you can't keep your
conversation civil, I'll have to ask the moderators
to throw you both out!

David
www.DavidSosnowski.com

[JonFairhurst]

Poor David,

One income. Two mouths to feed... ~|

[etLux]

Interesting remark, David. However, what about the situation in Czech republic: we do get crude oil via main pipeline from Russia... and still pay $7,50 per gallon:mad:

This is because they use round pipes!

Think about it. Let's use a 24" pipe as an example.
The cross-sectional area of a 24" pipe is approximately
452.4 square inches.

However, a square pipe 24" on a side would have a
cross-sectional area of 576 square inches... that is,
about 27% more oil can go through a square pipe
than through a round pipe.

Thus, were they to simply switch to square pipes,
gasoline would be 27% cheaper.

Best,



David
www.DavidSosnowski.com

[capellen]

This is because they use round pipes!

Think about it. Let's use a 24" pipe as an example.
The cross-sectional area of a 24" pipe is approximately
452.4 square inches.

However, a square pipe 24" on a side would have a
cross-sectional area of 576 square inches... that is,
about 27% more oil can go through a square pipe
than through a round pipe.

Thus, were they to simply switch to square pipes,
gasoline would be 27% cheaper.

Best,



David
www.DavidSosnowski.com


...and I tried to get you serious:D

[Gesticulator01]

To go back a bit:


.....

But in a brilliant move, our government thought-
fully deregulated the banking industry; not
only allowing but encouraging the banks and
lending institutions to participate in wholesale
fraud and usury in their practices.
......
David
www.DavidSosnowski.com (http://www.DavidSosnowski.com)

- that practise, an offence worthy of burning at the stake 500 years ago, is of course the basis of the world's financial system.

Medieval theologians are rolling in their graves, disturbed by the wholesale collision of entire levels of the atmosphere, hitting the topsoil 6 feet above them.

[GDG]

Poor David,

One income. Two mouths to feed... ~|

Just two? ;)

[GDG]

Seems to me like we've taken ~US$500 billion (+/-), and used it in such a way that it causes absolutely no economic benefit, basically destroying money, and have done so in a way that results in the death of several thousand Americans and who knows how many thousand Iraqis. We probably spend at least US$20K to $30K to train and equip each soldier, and then for a substantial percentage spend much more for medical care and/or death benefits. (This pales compared to the human cost, but we're just talking economics here.)

You just can't throw away that much money, and expect that there won't be a consequence... :o

[Garritan]

This is because they use round pipes!

...Thus, were they to simply switch to square pipes,
gasoline would be 27% cheaper.

Brilliant!

etLux for President!

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:V5DTWiM9jAkq_M:http://www.china-steel.org/productsimage/Square_Pipes.jpg

[Garritan]

Now, see here, you two, if you can't keep your
conversation civil, I'll have to ask the moderators
to throw you both out!

David
www.DavidSosnowski.com (http://www.DavidSosnowski.com)Both of you...tone it down! :mad:

Have a little respect for one another. ;)

[etLux]

Both of you...tone it down! :mad:

Have a little respect for one another. ;)

I'm sorry, Gary. I apologize. Really.

But it's all his fault. Mom always like him better,
you know.

Best,



David
www.DavidSosnowski.com

[Leaf]

If all the lending institutions that conned people into getting balooning rates, had to just give the homes to their victims, then i think this would improve the economy... because it would increase consumer confidence in some sectors.

Maybe that guy that is trying to make a new law, to make internet posters reveal their true identity, should drop that one and get on board for this one.

Bill Gates

[fastlane]

http://www.mydocsonline.com/pub/fastlane54321/alfred_e_neuman.jpg

[Coqui]

Our wise and noble leaders have realized this,
and they are diligently working to manipulate the
economy so that, shortly, we will all be abjectly
poor.

I liked this (http://tinyurl.com/3dug5o) and this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHSiqQpg7Uc)

In a global world we share similar politicians, etLux...

;)

Further readings: Nouriel Roubini's blog (http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini)

[Leaf]

I'm not so sure that the economy plummeting is completely a bad thing, even if it does appear that it is mostly from the media instilling the fear that is driving it down.

For example I'm not a home owner but would like to be one, so it prices fall to an all time low in some richer neighborhoods, it could present a once in a lifetime opportunity... and for people who want to buy stocks, Apple was over a hundred bucks last time i checked, who wants to buy when it is so ridiculously high?

If stocks plummet, it would allow more people to buy in when it's on the bottom, so i vote for it to bottom out every now and then. I would be scared to buy any stocks while they are high.

[Pingu]

For example I'm not a home owner but would like to be one, so it prices fall to an all time low in some richer neighborhoods, it could present a once in a lifetime opportunity...

Which is great for you, but for those of us who do own a home it means we own a house that's worth less than we owe on the mortgage. Moving then becomes impossible, because selling my house doesn't even pay off the mortgage, let alone give any capital to act as a deposit on the next house.

What we really need is to keep wage rises in line with everything else. That will never happen though, because there are too many very greedy, dishonest shareholders out there. For instance, British Gas just put up the prices for gas and electric by 15%, and are threatening to put them up another 20% very shortly. They claim it's because of the rising price of the gas, and they're sick of swallowing the shortfall themselves, but they've also announced profits in billions. Of course this then has a knock-on effect to all other commodities, since their providers are now paying more for their energy. Which eventually means that it's just us salaried workers that get pooped on, because we can't simply up the price of our services. My wage has gone up 2.5% in 3 years, whilst my total bills have doubled.

[Little Red King]

Synopsis of Limits to Growth: The 30 year Update.
http://www.sustainer.org/pubs/limitstogrowth.pdf

I think that this helps to put a lot of what we are seeing in perspective.

Other interesting reading from Donella Meadows:
http://www.sustainer.org/pubs/Leverage_Points.pdf

[Garritan]

More happy news this morning:

Economy hammered by toxic blend of ailments (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/14/business/14econ.html?_r=2&ref=business&oref=slogin&oref=slogin) – New York Times
STOCK ROLLERCOASTER... (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8VDAECO0&show_article=1) - Breitbart
BEAR STEARNS Bailed Out by Fed, JPMORGAN CHASE... (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120550108028136579.html?mod=hpp_us_inside_today)- Breitbard
*Cash 'significantly deteriorated'... (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aGinDE8cViBM&refer=worldwide) - Bloomberg
Harvard's Feldstein Says U.S. Economy Is in a Recession, `Getting Worse' (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a3ObUWxYYBM8&refer=home) - Bloomberg
Dollar losing clout around the world (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23616851/) – MSNBC
Subprime Losses for Insurers Overtake Katrina as Industry's Worst Disaster (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aH4bWZasxTUo&refer=home) - Bloomberg
Wall Street fears big bank is in trouble... (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article3542775.ece) - Times Online UK
Dollar falls below Swiss franc... (http://sg.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080314/tbs-markets-forex-swiss-franc-7318940.html) - Yahoo Finance
Home prices plunge across California (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gEw86y9UfttCi5fVcA0K4awUfqiQD8VCNPQ80) – Associated Press
Desperate owners burn homes (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/03/14/lawrence.burning.homes.cnn) – CNN
Two-Year Note Yields Fall to Lowest Since '03 on Heightened Credit Concern (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=acpX9Al1jpIc&refer=home)- Bloomberg

[Styxx]

Yeah and all the male students pants are falling! :mad::rolleyes:

[Coqui]

More happy news this morning:
Desperate owners burn homes (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/03/14/lawrence.burning.homes.cnn) – CNN

Tent cities in LA - BBC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwRIzNyArRY)
Tent city in Southern California - (self-produced video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmeHiFZUWtE&NR=1)

[Leaf]

Which is great for you, but for those of us who do own a home it means we own a house that's worth less than we owe on the mortgage. Moving then becomes impossible, because selling my house doesn't even pay off the mortgage, let alone give any capital to act as a deposit on the next house.

What we really need is to keep wage rises in line with everything else. That will never happen though, because there are too many very greedy, dishonest shareholders out there. For instance, British Gas just put up the prices for gas and electric by 15%, and are threatening to put them up another 20% very shortly. They claim it's because of the rising price of the gas, and they're sick of swallowing the shortfall themselves, but they've also announced profits in billions. Of course this then has a knock-on effect to all other commodities, since their providers are now paying more for their energy. Which eventually means that it's just us salaried workers that get pooped on, because we can't simply up the price of our services. My wage has gone up 2.5% in 3 years, whilst my total bills have doubled.

I think you are right about that. They had a thing on TV that was talking about homeless people, and they said there are people who have jobs but are homeless. They said it takes 12 dollars per hour to pay rent and bills in most places (below that is considered poverty), but everyone wants to pay 6 to 8 dollars per hour.

I found during a job search that if i changed to something other than where my experience is, that almost every job is starting at 8.90 an hour. i'm pre approved to buy an old fixer upper, but that is conditional on 10 dollars an hour or more.

I don't know why so many have the same starting wage 8.90 per hour, that's not minimum wage, so i guess it maybe a product of market research or something like that... maybe that is the least you can offer and still get people answering your ads.

I think it is a crying shame, and i agree with you that the greed that is driving the overpricing and low wages is what is screwing everything up.

[bmdaustin]

I think it is a crying shame, and i agree with you that the greed that is driving the overpricing and low wages is what is screwing everything up.

So, Gordon Gecko was wrong after all............We let the foxes run (ruin?) the hen house and now there's not enough chickens or eggs to go around.

[Leaf]

So, Gordon Gecko was wrong after all............We let the foxes run (ruin?) the hen house and now there's not enough chickens or eggs to go around.Yeah, i think the only way it can work is when the hen house is run by a chicken farmer who is responsible, who doesn't let the foxes come in and rip off the people... uh i mean chickens.

[LFO]

I'm not so sure that the economy plummeting is completely a bad thing, even if it does appear that it is mostly from the media instilling the fear that is driving it down.

For example I'm not a home owner but would like to be one, so it prices fall to an all time low in some richer neighborhoods, it could present a once in a lifetime opportunity... and for people who want to buy stocks, Apple was over a hundred bucks last time i checked, who wants to buy when it is so ridiculously high?

If stocks plummet, it would allow more people to buy in when it's on the bottom, so i vote for it to bottom out every now and then. I would be scared to buy any stocks while they are high.

Leaf, will all due respect that is a very young persons attitude. I don't mean that in a patronizing or mean manner at all, I just think it is descriptive of what I read. Here's why:

You aren't a homeowner so you would not know what it feels like to lose value in your home, especially if your home value drops below what you paid for it. Some people have put themselves in this position by making unwise choices, however there are thousands of families in that situation who are in this circumstance for reasons completely out of their control. A home should be an asset, never a liability. Such a liability, even if it is for just $10,000 - 20,000 can be financially devastating.


Stock prices falling = people should buy stocks is a simple truth, however it ignores the many other complex issues that arise when stocks plummet. People lose jobs, then they can't pay their bills, then companies who aren't getting paid have to cut back so more people lose jobs. You get the idea. This is just one of six ramifications I can think of off the top of my head why stocks should not plummet.

My view, and I've not read this entire thread so I don't know what others are sharing, is that the `recession' is primarily a product of a horror story hungry media and politicians who are using fear to win the presidency. Both are deplorable in my book. Why is the media already talking about $5.00 gallons of gas? I've heard the arguments and I think they are bunk. More demand than supply because of China? Laughable. Do you really think everyone in China all of a sudden has a car? A weak dollar? Well, if you take the time to look at the current state of the dollar and try to match it up with oil prices you will find they are not close. Saudi Arabia is gouging the USA? Hmmm...we get most of our oil from Mexico and Canada. The only thing that has me worried is the decline of retail sales. This is the result of people reacting to the propaganda from the media and a few individuals who will do anything to win an election.

I know Gary is worried about a recession. He should be since he is in the retail sector that is being affected by shoppers influenced by propaganda. I would be too if I were him. In my industry, the computer industry, we saw a slump in Q1 this year, but Q2 is bouncing back pretty nicely despite the propaganda. I've seen the same in various industries that my business touches.

There is a time when we have to stand our ground and continue on as normal despite the attempts by the few to influence us in a way that will benefit the even fewer. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I do smell rats in this recession business. If Americans could learn to just live within their means and not live off of credit and bogus financing we would win 80% of the war. However that seems to be too tall an order for many and this will cause problems. The housing industry is the prime example.

If you are American, keep the faith. Look around you and see if you really see signs of recession in your community (except for the housing industry, that is a seperate issue). Lead your financial life in a prudent manner. Spend less than you earn, keep enough savings to live off of for at least six months and stay away from debt. If we could all do this collectively we could give the media and some presidential hopefuls a nice big raspberry. :)

-Kevin

[Mooshykris]

The only thing most of us can do, unfortunately, is to sit back, and see what happens.

In time it should fix itself.

I'm not overly worried because I don't have a job, and I can't do much about it.

So all I can say is I hope it self-fixes soon.

Mooshykris

[PaulR]

For example I'm not a home owner but would like to be one, so it prices fall to an all time low in some richer neighborhoods, it could present a once in a lifetime opportunity... and for people who want to buy stocks, Apple was over a hundred bucks last time i checked, who wants to buy when it is so ridiculously high?

If stocks plummet, it would allow more people to buy in when it's on the bottom, so i vote for it to bottom out every now and then. I would be scared to buy any stocks while they are high.

I like your attitude Leaf - it's good.

However, re: housing in the richer areas. Should the prices really fall in all areas - then suddenly your richer areas could be infected with trailer trash and then it wouldn't be a richer area anymore.

Richer neighbourhoods aren't about the quality or workmanship that goes into the actually building itself - it's about the people that live there.
Most people that live in richer neighbourhoods are recession bullet proof anyway - so getting into one of those may mean you have to work quite hard - or someone related and rich has to die. :D

[dudefromthebronx]

BLUE STATE SECESSION NOW!!!!!

OK, maybe I seem like a left-wing nutcase for saying that, but the clock is ticking and we'd better do something quick. I mean something that'll remind those fat cats in D.C. that they work for us, not the other way around. We can stand there and let 'em walk all over us year after year or we can spell it out for 'em. Jefferson said it best: "A little revolution every now and them is a good thing."

As for a secession of the blue states, hey, it doesn't really have to be forever. Just long enough to bring the powers-that-be to their knees. They get elected, they forget all the campaign promises they made, they collect their salaries and their pensions, they're all set. What do they care about the folks who put 'em there?

Grow a brain, grow a spine and get ready to start a chapter in American history we can best be remembered by. Our great grandkids will be forever grateful that we took such a bold step that would save them the grief of suffering the way we finally chose not to. So what's gonna be your plan, fight the machine or let it roll right over you?

[Styxx]

Jefferson said it best: "A little revolution every now and them is a good thing."
And he was talking just that! Every two to two hundred and a half years there should be a revolution against not only the government but large corporations that run this so called by the people for the people government.

Whew ... that took a lot out of me. I'm going back to being a comic and leave the Bickering to you youts! :D

[PaulR]

Grow a brain, grow a spine and get ready to start a chapter in American history we can best be remembered by.
[/FONT][/SIZE]

That would be chapter what in American History?

[wrayer]

large corporations that run this so called by the people for the people government.


Ah, but you left out a line in that declaration:

A government by the people, for the people and TO THE PEOPLE.

And they are so doing it to us...

[Styxx]

Yes, you are right.

[LFO]

I like your attitude Leaf - it's good.

However, re: housing in the richer areas. Should the prices really fall in all areas - then suddenly your richer areas could be infected with trailer trash and then it wouldn't be a richer area anymore.

Richer neighbourhoods aren't about the quality or workmanship that goes into the actually building itself - it's about the people that live there.
Most people that live in richer neighbourhoods are recession bullet proof anyway - so getting into one of those may mean you have to work quite hard - or someone related and rich has to die. :D

A common misconception. I live in a `richer' neighborhood, due to some circumstances that were very favorable for me when I bought the house. I am surrounded by people who make 2, 3, 4, 10 times what I do. They are some of the poorest people I know. Why? Because no matter how much they make they all spend more than they have. The game is not `keeping up with the Joneses' it is `beat the tar out of the Joneses'. A friend of mine is the mortgage broker who did 90% of the loans for this community (and became rich himself doing it). He has shown me what these people do financially and it scared the pants off of me. The only word I can use to describe their financial behavior is reckless. People who make 5 million a year spend 10 million a year. I am not exagerrating (sp?)! These people make solid bank and that is not enough. They waste, go into huge debt and think they are above the laws of finance. Scary.

No, they are not recession bullet-proof. They, or at least many of them, live on a financial edge.


Leaf, if you take on thing from this forum take this. Never, ever, ever become a slave to a mortgage. I've seen it happen to so many friends. When you buy a house figure out what a responsible percentage of your income should go to a mortage (see http://www.fool.com for excellent advice) and stick to it. Ignore upgrade fever, fire the builder or real estate agent who tries to push up the amount you will spend. I'm sure others on the forum will agree that this single financial decision will influence your financial future more than any other single decision. Choose wisely and you will never regret it.

-Kevin

[dudefromthebronx]

That would be chapter what in American History?

A chapter we can all be proud of. The rest of the world thinks we're all wimps. Let's show 'em what we're made of!

[qccowboy]

A chapter we can all be proud of. The rest of the world thinks we're all wimps.


Actually, a quick correction.. the rest of the world thinks you're all big bullies.:p

There's a difference.

[Garritan]

More economic news this morning:
More banks may follow 'demise' of Bear Stearns, Bernstein says (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a2bog3rswhcg&refer=home) – Bloomberg
UBS drops most in nine years on report of job cuts (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ape_ucaYNvuk&refer=home) – Bloomberg
Oil hits record over $111 a barrel as dollar slumps (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080317/bs_nm/markets_oil_dc_1) – Reuters
U.S. losing confidence vote as investors flee (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/03/17/ccview117.xml) – Telegraph UK
Dollar slumps below 97 yen for first time in 12 years (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=alVwPKpmdb3I&refer=homee) – Bloomberg
GREENSPAN: FINANCIAL MESS WORST SINCE WWII... (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/edbdbcf6-f360-11dc-b6bc-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1)– Financial Times
Wall Street waits for next domino to fall... (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/619b6d18-f392-11dc-b6bc-0000779fd2ac.html) – Financial Times
FED GIVES ANOTHER QUARTER... (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080316/fed_credit_crisis.html?.v=1)
PAPER: Foreign investors veto Fed rescue... (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/03/17/ccview117.xml)
The Dollar Doomsayers... (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aS87YcPKuDDE&refer=worldwide) – Bloomberg
Euro, Gold Hit New Records... (http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSSYD10719020080317?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&rpc=23&sp=true) – Bloomberg
3-month bill yield seen lowest in 50 years... (http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUKN1757391720080317?rpc=44) – Bloomberg
U.S. Stocks Tumble on Bear Stearns Sale; Europe, Asia Plunge (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=asjSymON2Wr0&refer=home) – Bloomberg
Bush Tries To Reassure Markets, Says Admin Is "On Top Of The Situation" (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/17/bush-us-is-on-top-of-fin_n_91868.html) - Huffington PostOK. We get the picture. When is the good news coming? :confused: :confused:

[PaulR]

A common misconception. I live in a `richer' neighborhood, due to some circumstances that were very favorable for me when I bought the house. I am surrounded by people who make 2, 3, 4, 10 times what I do. They are some of the poorest people I know. Why? Because no matter how much they make they all spend more than they have. The game is not `keeping up with the Joneses' it is `beat the tar out of the Joneses'. A friend of mine is the mortgage broker who did 90% of the loans for this community (and became rich himself doing it). He has shown me what these people do financially and it scared the pants off of me. The only word I can use to describe their financial behavior is reckless. People who make 5 million a year spend 10 million a year. I am not exagerrating (sp?)! These people make solid bank and that is not enough. They waste, go into huge debt and think they are above the laws of finance. Scary.

I virtually own a mortgage broker as a matter of fact - although I don't work anymore. It's a whole financial business as a matter of fact and mortgages are certainly part of that. I always looked on mortgages as 'dirty money' and wouldn't soil my hands dealing with all of that - can't stand mortgages actually.

What you are talking about here Kevin is an entirely different philosophy to what I meant. You are talking about DEBT and I have made myself fairly clear about that on this forum over the years actually.

Neighbourhoods and the class of a neighbourhood are about people and their attitude towards neighbours - not about buildings, earnings, cars or debt. Financial behaviour is not just reckless most of the time - it's downright uneducated.


No, they are not recession bullet-proof.


The ones that surround me are.


Leaf, if you take on thing from this forum take this. Never, ever, ever become a slave to a mortgage. I've seen it happen to so many friends. When you buy a house figure out what a responsible percentage of your income should go to a mortage (see http://www.fool.com for excellent advice) and stick to it. Ignore upgrade fever, fire the builder or real estate agent who tries to push up the amount you will spend. I'm sure others on the forum will agree that this single financial decision will influence your financial future more than any other single decision. Choose wisely and you will never regret it.-Kevin

I agree - I personally don't have a mortgage, but what you say has value - although what it's like trying to find a responsible broker anywhere these days - who knows. Look at the bundled mortgages that the States have been selling around the world. Net result - chaos, quite naturally - and predictable. Faults lie with the buyers of these financial instruments, governments, financial service authorities and the way bonuses are paid to barrow boys.

And the banks.

[PaulR]

A chapter we can all be proud of. The rest of the world thinks we're all wimps. Let's show 'em what we're made of!

Yes!!! Let's!!

When can we start!?!


:D

[wrayer]

More economic news this morning:

More banks may follow 'demise' of Bear Stearns, Bernstein says (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a2bog3rswhcg&refer=home) – Bloomberg
UBS drops most in nine years on report of job cuts (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ape_ucaYNvuk&refer=home) – Bloomberg
Oil hits record over $111 a barrel as dollar slumps (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080317/bs_nm/markets_oil_dc_1) – Reuters
U.S. losing confidence vote as investors flee (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/03/17/ccview117.xml) – Telegraph UK
Dollar slumps below 97 yen for first time in 12 years (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=alVwPKpmdb3I&refer=homee) – Bloomberg
GREENSPAN: FINANCIAL MESS WORST SINCE WWII... (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/edbdbcf6-f360-11dc-b6bc-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1)– Financial Times
Wall Street waits for next domino to fall... (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/619b6d18-f392-11dc-b6bc-0000779fd2ac.html) – Financial Times
FED GIVES ANOTHER QUARTER... (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080316/fed_credit_crisis.html?.v=1)
PAPER: Foreign investors veto Fed rescue... (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/03/17/ccview117.xml)
The Dollar Doomsayers... (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aS87YcPKuDDE&refer=worldwide) – Bloomberg
Euro, Gold Hit New Records... (http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSSYD10719020080317?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&rpc=23&sp=true) – Bloomberg
3-month bill yield seen lowest in 50 years... (http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUKN1757391720080317?rpc=44) – Bloomberg
U.S. Stocks Tumble on Bear Stearns Sale; Europe, Asia Plunge (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=asjSymON2Wr0&refer=home) – Bloomberg
Bush Tries To Reassure Markets, Says Admin Is "On Top Of The Situation" (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/17/bush-us-is-on-top-of-fin_n_91868.html) - Huffington PostOK. We get the picture. When is the good news coming? :confused: :confused:

Good News? That is the good news. Wait until you hear the bad news!

[PaulR]

Good News? That is the good news. Wait until you hear the bad news!

You mean The Leahman Brothers?

[LFO]

Neighbourhoods and the class of a neighbourhood are about people and their attitude towards neighbours - not about buildings, earnings, cars or debt. Financial behaviour is not just reckless most of the time - it's downright uneducated.


I see now what you are saying and totally agree. One of the few things that can be worse than the financial decisions are the attitudes of neighbors towards neighbors. I'm lucky on my street, and it was just that, pure luck. However, on other streets it is amazing the kind of attitude, judgement and condensation goes on. It is unfortunate because when people ask me where I live and I tell them many of them give me `the look'. I then have to say something to try and assure them I am in the community but not of it. :)

Is nothing simple anymore? *sigh*

-Kevin

[Coqui]

Good News? That is the good news. Wait until you hear the bad news!
Make bread not war, Egypt president tells army (http://www.metimes.com/Politics/2008/03/17/make_bread_not_war_egypt_president_tells_army/afp/) - MET
Need gas money? (http://theheaviestbike.blogspot.com/2008/02/gas-prices.html)

[Garritan]

Well... finally, we did get some good news today...
Stocks Surge over 400 Points After Fed Move... (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080318/wall_street.html?.v=101) - Yahoo finance
U.S. Stocks Soar Most in Five Years After Fed Cut, Lehman, Goldman Profits (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aGsVUqGtyZ8c&refer=home) - Bloomberg
Fed Cuts Rates By 3/4 Percentage Point (http://www.forbes.com/topstories/home/feeds/ap/2008/03/18/ap4788894.html) - Forbes
Visa's $17.9 Billion IPO Breaks Records (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/18/visas-179-billion-ipo-_n_92202.html) - HuffingtonEconomic news is like being on a roller coaster. We'll see what the rest of the week brings....

[Styxx]

Well at least we know one person is $4500 richer! ;):D

[Leaf]

Thanks for good advice PaulR and LFO.

I'm going to be buying the house i have been living in for very good price. It's a fixer upper but i can do most the work myself, have already done some of it. This area used to be mostly old retired people. There is still some here, but a lot of Hispanics have moved in lately, and it remains still a quiet and peaceful neighborhood, with the exception of an occasional teen misbehaving like teens tend to do sometimes. I have some of the best neigbors one could ever hope for.

The richer neighborhood i was referring, is University Park, Recession Proof 99 percent of history but now has dropping prices...But when the prices go back up, taxes could be a problem. It has old houses like here, but the people there, over the years, have planted the best trees for fall foliage and it's a very beautiful area.

Here some realestate scammers have hired people that do really crappy work to do these quicky face lifts, and some people i guess don't notice the difference, but it looks really bad. I think it would be illegal to do that in UP. Here when the city works on or replaces steets and sidwalks, they hire some people that don't know how to make it look nice, but UP apparently uses the old companies that Dallas used along time ago... and when the street needs replaced the do it completely rather then putting in patches over the old patches.

The people there in UP are pretty cool folks. It's the newer area they call UpTown where when you visit, it seems like you're on a different planet. :)

[PaulR]

I'm going to be buying the house i have been living in for very good price. It's a fixer upper but i can do most the work myself, have already done some of it. This area used to be mostly old retired people.

Actually, when you're younger, you more or less can't beat living around retired folks - unless they constantly take advantage of you and ask you to cut their hedge or constantly come round for tea - or listen to their music. :D

I am currently living in what I regard as temporary accomodation and just spent $100K on it. If you are living in a place that you intend to stay in for some time - spend money on it gradually and don't be in any hurry to make it uber comfortable and luxurious. Make guests sit on the floor if you have to - that way you'll always have the upper hand socially.

Re: teens misbehaving. Chain them to the back of the car and take them for a scrape round the neighbourhood. That usually does the trick.

[Garritan]

The news has been a bit confusing lately. Stock market up, oil prices down, indicators down....
Dollar rises against commodity currencies as oil, gold slump (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aJy4L44RFHTA&refer=home) – Bloomberg
American auto industry bracing for 'worst year in decade'... (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120593252021148373.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news)- Wall Street Journal
Recession fears mount on jobless, factory data (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080320/bs_nm/usa_economy_dc_1) – Reuters
World trade decelerates almost to a standstill (http://us.ft.com/ftgateway/superpage.ft?news_id=fto031920081902264812)– Financial Times
A new Great Depression? (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-depression20mar20,1,832563.story) – Los Angeles Times
Oil falls under $100 on waning demand (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080320/ap_on_bi_ge/oil_prices_100) – Associated Press
Credit Suisse expects to post a loss (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/20/business/worldbusiness/20cnd-credit.html?_r=1&ex=1363752000&en=3a2919b25b7123eb&ei=5089&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss&oref=slogin) – New York Times
Citigroup To Cut 2,000 More Jobs (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/20/citigroup-to-cut-2000-mo_n_92494.html)- Huffington Post
California leads U.S. in defaults, price drop, slowing growth (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a4BfFsSp0z08) – Bloomberg
U.S. construction activity indicator shrinks (http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUKN1820326220080319?rpc=44) – Reuters
US mortgage lenders to pump $200 bln into markets (http://www.guardian.co.uk/feedarticle?id=7397613)- Guardian, UK
Britain faces worse housing crash than US (http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=122794&in_page_id=34)- Metro, UK
59% of Americans say Depression Likely - 79% Worry About One (http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2008/03/19/2003406152) - Tapei TimesWho has a clue as to what's going on?? :confused:


http://rense.com/1.imagesH/bank_dees.jpg

[etLux]

The news has been a bit confusing lately. Stock market up, oil prices down, indicators down....

But, thank heaven, at least there's NO INFLATION!

And I can prove it.

Last month when I bought heating oil, it was $2.97/gallon.
Today it was $3.83 a gallon.

Now, on first glance, that would seem to be a 30% increase
in just one month.

But here's where the magic of accounting comes in. The
dollars I used to buy that oil are worth 40% less than they
were -- hence, I'm actually 10% ahead of the game!

So, you see... we're actually in a period of deflation, and
my fuel oil was a real bargain. All $654-worth.

Best,



David
www.DavidSosnowski.com

[Raymond62]

But here's where the magic of accounting comes in. The dollars I used to buy that oil are worth 40% less than they
were -- hence, I'm actually 10% ahead of the game!

Does your boss know this, or the guy that pays you?

Raymond

[etLux]

Does your boss know this, or the guy that pays you?

Raymond

My boss? Quite frankly, he's a pain in the bottom. One of
the most ignorant, pig-headed, mean-spirited individuals
I have ever worked for in my life. A person of very, very
limited understanding.

I'd quit on the bum, but then there'd be no one here to
run my company...

David
www.DavidSosnowski.com

[brsmith]

American Oil Now! New Refineries Now!

brsmith

[Garritan]

Today's economic news:

New Home Sales Fall to 13-Year Low... (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080326/economy.html?.v=11) - Yahoo Finace
California freefall: Home prices fell 26% in February... (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laland/2008/03/california-free.html) - LA Times
Wall Street May Be Facing 'Up to $460 Billion Credit Losses'... (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aIGeO4anyk.c&refer=worldwide) - Bloomberg
HOARDING BY BANKS STOKES FEAR ON CRISIS... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/0-0&fp=47e96c6d6d8e770e&ei=w8DpR5WGHZLOywT2yohn&url=http%3A//www.ft.com/cms/s/a5bb2302-fad7-11dc-aa46-000077b07658.html&cid=1145791656&usg=AFrqEzctteCUYF7JOR-bmPo2bFZRSA-B6A) - Google News
Euro shoots past $1.57... (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080326130520.le9n7dc0&show_article=1) - Breitbart
Consumer confidence in U.S. fell more than forecast (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=afZ8HSAxwbCE&refer=home) – Bloomberg
Wall Street firms cut 34,000 jobs, most since 2001 dot-com bust (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aTARUhP3w5xE&refer=us) – Bloomberg
Durable-Goods Orders in U.S. Unexpectedly Drop: (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aEc3V4J.EkXs&refer=home)– Bloomberg
Citigroup Loss Estimate Quadrupled (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a8nlHoXHdJf8&refer=home) – Bloomberg
Taxpayers May Be Liable for Billions in Fed, Treasury Mortgage-Rescue Bid (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aN.cnCGH92GQ&refer=home) – BloombergDon't worry ... be happy :)

[Andrew Koenig]

Just remember that whenever just about everyone thinks the economic roof is about to cave in, that's usually when markets have hit bottom and are about to start back up.

Why is it that when Macy's has a sale, people rush to buy, and when Wall Street has a sale, people rush to sell?

[Skysaw]

Why is it that when Macy's has a sale, people rush to buy, and when Wall Street has a sale, people rush to sell?
An excellent question!

I recently got into learning about the stock market, and opened an online trading account specifically because everything had crashed. I mean, you're supposed to buy low, right? :)

[Jonny Lost]

Hey everyone,

Man, I thought I was depressed before I read this thread!!! Sheesh!! ~|

The housing thing is really a sore spot with me right now. My wife and I bought a house 5 years ago. then we both lost our positions (we're both Music Teachers), not to mention that we had a little one on the way. So we had to move to another location to get better jobs, which we did (eventually).

However, our house has been sitting empty for over a year and a half, noone wants to buy, or rent in the area. Southeastern Ohio is a very low income part of the state to begin with.

So, long story short: Mortgage + rent + Gas Prices + Heating Costs (for two houses) + Family needs = Jonny has a headache!!!!

So how do we manage? My wife and I keep a pretty good sense of humor about it. Now, every time we receive a $400 gas bill for a house that is sitting empty, we just take the "Fine, is that all you got?" attitude. It really is to the point where you have to laugh to keep from sticking a fork in the power outlet! (By the way, I tried that when I was a kid, I wouldn't recommend it! :p)

Hopefully, things will turn around soon. If not, I say take the freakin' house. My credit is already ruined. Frankly, I like the article about the guys burning down their own houses! Fire it up man!! )(~

All joking aside, to those of you that are in similar situations, hang in there. Keep your sense of humor, take care of your loved ones and be willing to help out your fellow man. I think in the end, they made need it.

Jonny (where'd I put that darn house key) Lost

[PaulR]

I like you Jonny - you're a good boy. How many cats do you have?

:D

[Jonny Lost]

We have two cats, (Fluffy and Patches) and two dogs (Ruby and Sweetpea), oh and the monkey!! (That would be my son, Gavin!!) )(~


Just call me the zoo keeper!!~|

Jonny

[PaulR]

We have two cats, (Fluffy and Patches) and two dogs (Ruby and Sweetpea), oh and the monkey!! (That would be my son, Gavin!!) )(~


Just call me the zoo keeper!!~|

Jonny

Cats are great fun - but can be a lot of work. :)

This'll make you laugh Jonny. :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3xe9dSY7zM

[Garritan]

More bad news this weekend. It seems to be extending downward and outward and doesn't seem to be just a US problem anymore.


Fed eyes Nordic-style nationalization of banks (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/03/31/cnfed131.xml) - Telegraph UK
Brace for $1 Trillion Writedown (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aHCnscodO1s0)-Bloomberg
US-UK TEAM TO THWART FINANCIAL CRISES (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9911943e-fe87-11dc-9e04-000077b07658.html) - Financial Times
Defaults on Insured Mortgages Rose 38% on Record Foreclosures (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=auvU0BeVBp38&refer=home) - Bloomberg
Credit crunch is hitting UK family spending (http://business.scotsman.com/personal-finance/Credit-crunch-is-hitting-UK.3927102.jp) – Scotsman
Iceland Banks' Risk of Default Rises (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ays2DwIrn8m8&refer=home) – Bloomberg
China stocks have worst quarterly drop (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601089&sid=axdVFdD5FaZ4&refer=china) – Bloomberg
Europe inflation accelerates (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aR2xZcBWBfdA&refer=worldwide) - Bloomberg
German watchdog said to eye $600 billion in banking losses (http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/31/german-watchdog-said-to-eye-600-billion-in-banking-losses/) -New York Times
More bailouts to follow Bear Stearns? (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/business/stories.nsf/yourmoney/story/515C8F68A2FB81B58625741A000F292D?OpenDocument) – Associated Press
Bleakonomics (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/30/magazine/30wwln-lede-t.html?ref=business) – New York Times
Orange County, San Diego regions show (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-me-ochomes26mar26,1,5327201.story)price declines of nearly 17% (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-me-ochomes26mar26,1,5327201.story) - Los Angeles Times, CA
New-home sales in US fall to 13-year low (http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20080327/NEWS/803270370/1002/news06&title=New_home_sales_in_U_S__fall_to_13_year_low)- StarNewsOnline
Struggling Homeowners Go On Rampage: Protest Bailout! (http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080326/bearstearns_protest.html?ref=ushousingupdate.com) - Yahoo biz
Dollar heads for biggest quarterly loss against euro since 2004 (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601083&sid=aLiDIL6DRSiI&refer=currency) – Bloomberg
Neediest States Hit Hardest by State Budget Cuts (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/30/AR2008033002138.html) - Washington Post
Breakfast Staples See Price Hike At Supermarkets (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=4553747&page=1) - ABC News
Food Stamp Use At Record Pace As Jobs Vanish (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/31/us/31foodstamps.html?ex=1364616000&en=36b38807e273aba1&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss) - NY Times
Consumer Confidence At 5-Year Low (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/25/business/main3966330.shtml) - CBS NewsThere's much more - but this is more than enough. In good news the Dow Jones is up slightly :)


http://rense.com/1.imagesH/feddees.jpg

[Garritan]

How about some good economic news for a change...

JOBLESS RATE FALLS (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080502/economy.html?.v=10) - Yahoo Biz
GLOOM LIFTING? Sense of Optimism Begins to Ease Onto Wall St... (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/05/02/business/02markets.php) - Tribune Herald
Dow crosses 13,000; Dollar UP... (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080501/wall_street.html) - Yahoo Biz
Unemployment Rate Unexpectedly Falls to 5% (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aabt.Q79iKsE&refer=home) - Bloomberg
Stocks in U.S. Advance on Better-Than-Forecast Jobs Report, Fed's Actions (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aIIKOViX6tGw&refer=home)
Fed To Pursue Aggressive Crack Down On Credit Card Industry (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/02/fed-to-pursue-aggressive_n_99766.html) - Huffington
Crisis, what crisis? Optimism is back (http://business.smh.com.au/crisis-what-crisis-optimism-is-back/20080502-2ac0.html) – Sydney Morning Herald
Factory orders up 1.2% in March (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080502/ap_on_bi_ge/factory_orders_2) – Associated Press
Job cuts in April less severe than feared (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080502/bs_nm/usa_economy_dc_5) – Reuters

[Haydn]

The economy here in the Phoenix, Arizona are is actually still pretty good. Unemployment rate is still low. Chandler, were I live, has one of the best economies in the area as the city planners are forward thinkers. That have been working on diversifying employers which is paying off with quite a few high tech jobs.

The only rough area is the housing market. House prices have dropped quite a bit in the last few months although they are starting to bottom out in my zip code.

Jim

[J. Whaley]

I find this so ironic and almost funny. I've been missing from the forum for a while because a few months ago I decided to learn about the world of finances and actually make some money for a change. In the process I have learned some amazing things about the media - they're fully of a bunch of crap (in general). Who cares about Bias, they say what they want.

I actually heard a report on CNBC about 3 weeks ago that went like this:
Reporter to analyst: "So have we hit the bottom? How Far must we go?"
Analyst: "Actually things seem to have bottomed out and things are looking pretty good" (followed by explaination)

Reporter to audience: "Well there you have it, this recession may take the best of us yet"


I laughed out loud. The analyst had just said we have hit the bottom and the market it actually looks strong. He NEVER mentioned an impending recession. Nothing of the sort, and the reported turned around and told the people what HE (the reporter) wanted people to hear.


Forget the news reports (and Ben Bernanke who is an IDIOT) and look at the raw data:

Report: " Potentially worst recession in decades, could actually be a "depression".

Raw data: Economy has slowed to a growth of .o6%. A recession by definition must be two quarters in a row of NEGATIVE growth. For example -.06%. .06% is STILL positive. We've not had any negative growth quarters yet. And far from a depression.

Report: The US is loosing jobs faster than any time since the late 70's.

Fact: Expected job loss in 2nd quarter 80,000 jobs. Actual Job loss 20,000.


Report: "The dow is down again. When will the market ever hit a bottom?"

Fact: The dow gained over 700 points in April and is currently hovering around 13,000




REALITY CHECK: The economy is not in shambles - the reporters are creating a panic.


THIS is the law of attraction at work. Reporters say the sky is falling, people believe it, eventually the sky gets lower. Go figure.


Let's look at the good:

I saw a recent report which stated 30% or so disapprove of the president. YET - more than 70% say their lives are drastically better NOW than 8 years ago. Interesting.

80 % of people polled said they felt the current economy is worse than during the Clinton Administration. YET - The current Administration has managed to maintain the exact same unemployment rate averaged over 8 years as the clinton administration (5.2%). And remember this president inherited a recession ALREADY IN PROGRESS whereas Clinton Inherited an economy in economic expansion. (for the record I'm not crazy about the current administration I'm just stating things aren't what they may appear on TV)



It's a natural cycle, after winter comes spring. After economic expansion comes retracement. Sometimes that retracement actually becomes a recession, but after recession sure enough comes another expansion. It's a cycle. Buy on the dips, sell on the high. That's the investors motto. Now is an awesome time to buy real estate, it's on SALE! For those who want to hold, just wait a while, it'll go back up.


Lots of people who bought Apple Computer stocks last fall at 180/share were excited when it hit 200. Only to watch it fall to 120 1 month later! In a panic they sold. Only 2 months later we're back to 180. Stocks move, they retrace, they move again.

The real Estate market got big - it deflated, it will be back. No need to panic unless you enjoy panic.



There is currently no recession, just panic driven by reporters. Focus on your own lives. If your life is better than it was a couple years ago be happy, buy samples, and quit talking about recession. If it's worse ask yourself if you're a musician who has chosen self un-employment. If you are - quit blaming the government.


Remember LIFE really does follow the law of attraction. Attract good - good will come.



And for the record I DO own a home, I ALSO own a studio, I do trade the stock market (for a profit), and I AM a musician. I also own part of a publishing company that sells music retail (and we're having our best year ever).

J-

[J. Whaley]

BLUE STATE SECESSION NOW!!!!!

OK, maybe I seem like a left-wing nutcase for saying that, but the clock is ticking and we'd better do something quick. I mean something that'll remind those fat cats in D.C. that they work for us, not the other way around. We can stand there and let 'em walk all over us year after year or we can spell it out for 'em. Jefferson said it best: "A little revolution every now and them is a good thing."

As for a secession of the blue states, hey, it doesn't really have to be forever. Just long enough to bring the powers-that-be to their knees. They get elected, they forget all the campaign promises they made, they collect their salaries and their pensions, they're all set. What do they care about the folks who put 'em there?

Grow a brain, grow a spine and get ready to start a chapter in American history we can best be remembered by. Our great grandkids will be forever grateful that we took such a bold step that would save them the grief of suffering the way we finally chose not to. So what's gonna be your plan, fight the machine or let it roll right over you?




DUDE FROM THE BRONX

GET REAL

The LEFT WING Nuts in America are mostly too young to remember the cold war. And if they are old enough to remember it they're too uneducated to study economics.


CAPITALISM - plain and simple - is complete economic freedom. The Left wants socialism. If you're a socialist you need to go visit former soviet states and ask them how it worked out. Communism and socialism killed every economy it touched. It's destroying France as we speak. I'm appalled that people really think this is a good idea for America.


For those of you who think Bush is a dictator - go to Cuba and ask them what a dictatorship looks like. I'm shocked at the LACK of respect for the office of president. Despite the fact that Clinton is only the 2nd president in history to be impeached, he stayed in office. He lied under oath and commited purgury - a crime people generally go to jail for - and stayed in office. And yet despite the stupid things he did the "Right", no matter how much they DIDN'T like him, at least respected the OFFICE of president.

I'm NOT crazy about this administration - but grow some fricken respect.


All of this crap goes together - the world is falling apart, we must succeed from the union, it's time for revolution - WHATEVER. Freedom is what makes America Great. And don't forget (you left wing nuts) the MAJORITY of the country re-elected this president.

YOU - are the minority. THIS is america. It's not YOUR job to change it. If you want to be a socialist move to Europe. But keep America free. If YOU want to succeed from the union there's plenty of immigrants who would give their left testicle for your citizenship - I'll be happy to broker that deal.