First Steinway Demos Now Posted

[Garritan]

We have posted the first of our Authorized Steinway Virtual Concert Grand demos.


Here is the link:

http://garritan.com/steinway_demos.html (http://garritan.com/steinway_demos.html)

We expect this to be our most popular product yet. Like our other products, this list willl grow to many hundreds of demos. These initial demos were intentionally made by working musicians with no external audio treatment. We purposely did not have these professionally produced so you can hear the Virtual Steinway in a variety of real world uses - from live play in Standalone, to sequencer to notation programs. We tried to show a variety of versions and perspectives. Demos from Steinway Artists are also in the works.

Many thanks to Dan Kury (DPDan), David Sosnowski, (etLux), Thomas Penders, David Tkaczuk and Bill DeWitt (valhalx) for doing such an amazing job on these demos. And a big bravo to Steinway & Sons and to David Viens and the team at Plogue for making this possible.

Enjoy!

Gary Garritan

[Garritan]

Here's the first demo on the page:

The Scherzo No. 2 in B flat minor, Op. 31 (http://www.garritan.com/Steinway/demos/Dan_Kury-Chopin_Scherzo_Op31.mp3)
Composed by Frederic Chopin
Sequenced byDan Kury
Version: Professional/Classic PerspectiveThe Scherzo No. 2 in B flat minor, Op. 31 is Frederic Chopin's most famous scherzo. This work is very popular among pianists and features energetic, strong chords contrasted with light and playful sections. Dan Kury meticulously sequenced this scherzo and modeled it after a Yundi Li interpretation.

[Michael_uk]

Hello Gary,

My heartiest congratulations.

Whilst I am not a fan of the Steinway piano (I'm careful of my wording here) this is a magnificent achievement.

Now that you have launched this library and am now able to focus attention on your remaining projects I'm looking forward to more libraries using your new ARIA player.

[Garritan]

And the Second:

Images Oubliees No. 1 (http://www.garritan.com/Steinway/demos/David_Tkaczuk-Debussy_Images.mp3) (Reflections in the Water)
Composed by Claude Debussy
Performed by David Tkaczuk
Standalone Mode using Record to Audio
Version: Basic
Reflections in the Water ( Reflets dans l'eau) is one of the Debussy's well-known water pieces which the composer imagined pebbles dropping into the water and seeing the ripples make concentric circles. With this piece, pianist David Tzaczuk shows the tone color potential of the Steinway Basic version in Standalone mode, played live using the Record to Audio feature. Please note this is the $99 basic version.

[englishgent]

Magnificent.

[RobertTewes]

The demos sound fantastic. I look forward to adding this instrument to my arsenal! :D
Congratulations on its release!

[RichR]

WOW!
These are amazing performances on what is going to be a standard that will be hard to beat. My hats off to the Garritan team on this one!

)(~)(~)(~)(~)(~

I am in awe of the sound and the technique of the players and composers. I know some of these are not played live but I could not tell you which!

Also, think about it... we are hearing these in mp3 format. They are compressed. Can you imagine on a good studio sound card and system coming through at full non-compressed quality what these would sound like!

Thanks Gary and all the guys for this!

[Styxx]

Holy Ivory Batman! All I had to hear was the first chord! Yup! That's the unique sound of a Steinway and played perfectly to boot! Gary, I am sure you out did yourself for now. What I mean by "for now" is that you will be up to something just as pronominal soon.
Congratulations to Gary Garritan, Steinway & Son's, and all who had a hand in this totally stupendous library!
)(~)(~)(~)(~)(~
Ok, Mine ... I have to have MINE!

[Styxx]

Where's Clair de Lune byDebussy? :) Someone has to render my favorite piano piece with the Steinway, yes? :)

The demos are fantastic! Wow doesn't do justice. This is ridiculousl real as real sounding can be! Way to go! )(~)(~)(~)(~)(~)(~)(~)(~)(~)(~

[football]

Any Pop style demos on the way?

[Houston Haynes]

Spec-freaking-tacular...

)(~

[Styxx]

I can't wait to read all the comparisons and controversies of real vs GSteinway and or other piano libraries. This is going to lift a lot of eyebrows.

Would also love to hear the demos played back on various monitors and play back systems. However, even through the inexpensive monitors I have the demos sound awesome and real. Attending 7 years in college studying music and exposed to nothing but Steinway's, the sound of this product is spot on. I'll have to visit my buddy who is the only person I know that has a Baby Grand Steinway in his home and hear his response to the demos.

Nice work Gary!

[danpowers]

I'll have to play these for my wife when she comes home. She's a Steinway girl from way back, and I have a feeling that she'll force me to order this right away, even though the budget isn't ready for it just yet!

[LouisD]

I listened to all the demos and it is a beautiful instrument. Congratulations Gary with this new Steinway.)(~

I have to now convince my wife that I really really NEED it for my next piano concerto so I can have $200 to buy it:D:D:D

[Davidart]

Congratulations Gary. )(~ Thanks for posting the demos.:)

I've also listened to the GSteinway demos. I've listened to many digital piano demo mp3's. So far i prefer Gary's Steinway.)(~

Unfortunately Time+Space don't have it yet.

How can 67 GB fit on 5 DVD's? :wow:

[nikolas]

Ok!

Time for questions and asnwers from my behalf...

QUESTIONS
1. No student discount? I'm a full time PhD student... (still... yes... laugh all you want! I'm a 30 year old student). :D:D So? How about it? Please?
2. 5 DVDs and 67 GB. I'm ready to assume that the DVDs are dual layer, right? Or double sided, or whatever. So each DBD is around 9 GB. 9x5=45 GB... A bit of compression and you're there...

ANSWERS
1. I have Ivory and Pianoteq. I bought Ivory at first and pretty soon, once I got Pianoteq I simply stoped using it! I even deleted all the pianos, except the Steinway.

Now it's time to delete Ivory in all and start using the Garritan Steinway! There is absolutely no question that this is the best piano I've heard.

If we consider that the latest pianos out are 3.5 generation (3rd being Ivory and 4th being truepiano and pianoteq, as true modelled), then Steinway amongs the 3 to come out around this time (Galaxy II, QL Pianos and Garritan Steinway) is FIRST BY FAR!

In all honesty the minute I set foot back to London I should buy it! (the $400 and the price is fine, no probs at all really, even if I'm greedy enough to ask for student discount). But my computer (P4 2.8 GHz single core, 2 GB) won't be able to run this beast properly, so... better to wait I guess... After all a new computer is not THAT far away... 'tis my hope that is...

_____________

Gary and everybody involved. Thank you for this wonderful insturment!

[jjloving]

wow. stunning sound. definitely worth the wait!!

great job on these recordings Dan, David and everyone else involved. Where's that FedEx man?!:D

absolutely awesome!

jon

[Marcussen]

1. No student discount? I'm a full time PhD student... (still... yes... laugh all you want! I'm a 30 year old student). So? How about it? Please?

It's called "The Basic Version"... Sure if they offered a student discount it would be great. But honestly - aren't you expecting too much when the product comes in three versions/prices?

The piano does sounds nice. But I'm no expert, and properbly miss out on a lot of subtle details. So I can't really tell if this is much better than what is out there now. But congratulations on the release.

[nikolas]

true enough...

I said I'm greedy, didn't I? :D

But I want the full version... :D And will get it!

[harmony]

message for Gary : Please, please, have better piano players for your demos, it's not deserving the library.

I wouldn't be disgraceful whith your work, but as concert pianist I don't feel called by these demos.

It could be so nice to have a beautiful interpretation of the classics you are using.. and so more selling.

As owner of Ivory, I can certify that far best results can be achieved.

[Jaybee]

message for Gary : Please, please, have better piano players for your demos, it's not deserving the library.

I wouldn't be disgraceful whith your work, but as concert pianist I don't feel called by these demos.

It could be so nice to have a beautiful interpretation of the classics you are using.. and so more selling.

As owner of Ivory, I can certify that far best results can be achieved.

My suggestion to you would for you to purchase the library for yourself and create some demos for us to hear. Gary has stated from the beginning that he wanted the demos to be created by the users of the product and that is exactly what you are hearing. Rather than denigrate what is being so graciously shared by some dedicated people, jump in and show us what you can do. I think your post does not show the respect Gary has shown us by providing such a wonderful tool. If you are, as you say, a concert pianist, give us a concert.
With all due respect . . .

[Garritan]

message for Gary : Please, please, have better piano players for your demos, it's not deserving the library.

Message for Gary received. Welcome to the forum.

All piano players, no matter what their genre, production tools used or skill level, are deserving of this library.

I wouldn't be disgraceful whith your work, but as concert pianist I don't feel called by these demos.

It could be so nice to have a beautiful interpretation of the classics you are using.. and so more selling.
Jaybee is right in his response. We tend to do things differently. As clearly stated clearly on the top of our demo page -"Here are the first of the Authorized Steinway Virtual Concert Grand demos and most likely this list will grow to many hundreds of demos. These initial demos were intentionally made by everyday working musicians with no external audio treatment. We purposely did not have these professionally produced so you can hear the Virtual Steinway in a variety of real world uses - from live play in Standalone, to sequencer to notation programs. Demos from Steinway Artists are also being made."
This product is not only for trained classical pianists, such as yourself, but for all musicians in a variety of situations. ;) Some of these demos were sequenced or notated as there are many users who work in this manner. I believe the musicians who made them did an exemplary job with the tools they used.

Many more demos will come. We are also working with Steinway & Sons to develop demos with Steinway Artists. Please be patient and perhaps it is best for you to wait for demos more to your taste.

Best,

Gary Garritan

[Gesticulator01]

You certainly are a very fine player Mr. Kury;)

(BTW - FWIW I'm a heavily trained classical pianist myself).

[DPDAN]

Thank you Gesticulator01, I wish I could play as good as Yundi :)

HARMONY, I am the person who made the first demo - the Chopin Scherzo.
I am not a concert pianist like you, I did it all manually, note by note, in Digital Performer sequencer.

I am welcome to any suggestions as to how to improve the rendition.

My rendition for the most part is identical to Yundi Li's live concert on DVD.
The sync is so close, you can sync my demo to the video in your sequencer, although I have not tried it with the Youtube linked video.

Here is the link for his video in case you would like to hear his performance, you can view it on Youtube at this link.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=alGaVou6lfk

Beware, the audio is seriously out of sync with the video.

I just recently found it there.

Dan

[harmony]

My apologies Gary, I jumped right from the NS link to your demo player whithout reading any introduction text on your site. So my comments on this point were out of purpose...

I will wait demos on my expectation level to evaluate your product, and I sincerely hope to be fulfilled.

I am writting for tv lot of piano pieces in the style of most classic and romantic composers, and I'm using whith good results the Ivory sampled. But every library is perfectible, and I have good hopes on yours!

If I manage to open a web page I will post some of my latest works as to illustrate my purpose.

All the best for your new baby!

[Garritan]

Just posted a few more Authorized Steinway demos...

http://www.garritan.com/steinway_demos.html (http://www.garritan.com/steinway_demos.html)

More coming soon...

Enjoy!

Gary Garritan

[harmony]

Thank you Gesticulator01, I wish I could play as good as Yundi :)

I am the person who made the first demo - the Chopin Scherzo.
I am not a concert pianist like you, I did it all manually, note by note, in Digital Performer sequencer.

I am welcome to any suggestions as to how to improve the rendition.

My rendition for the most part is identical to Yundi Li's live concert on DVD.
The sync is so close, you can sync my demo to the video in your sequencer, although I have not tried it with the Youtube linked video.

Here is the link for his video in case you would like to hear his performance, you can view it on Youtube at this link.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=alGaVou6lfk

Beware, the audio is seriously out of sync with the video.

I just recently found it there.

Dan


That's such a big work, create every note one by one... bravo...how long did you take to complete? I am curious..
I cannot give any advice, because I play the most parts direct, and edit after here and there to improve the nuances. So the work is fast done.
Anyway, if you are very patient, and have a good audition, you can come quite close to a cd interpretation and render it, but it's such a huge work..
Thats why It could be more easy to hire a professional player for classic demos..

[NothanUmber]

Thanks for sharing the link to the original recording of the scherzo!
You did a great job with simulating the rubato playing, the additional tonal nuances that Li has at his disposal gives it away after some chords though. (Although I think there are few people outside that could top your simulation just with note entry into a sequencer - if at all...) Anxiously waiting for the "Steinway Artists" demos!

[Jeffrey Hayat]

Hi.

1. Congrads on getting this done. I am sure more than alot of work went into this.

2. Wondering about the demos, and perspectives. To start, I lstened to the Scriabin Prelude No. 10, and was not that impressed. Sounded decent, but that's about it. Then I listened to Scherzo No. 2 Opus 31 and that blew my socks off. Don't ask why I started at the bottom...LOL

So here's the thing: the Scriabin demo says "basic" - which I assume is the "Close Audience" perspective as listed in your comparison chart. The Scherzo demo says "Professional/Stage Perspective", however there is no pro listing on the comparison chart, but there is a stage listing. So, I assume this demo was made with the Pro edition, but can you please clear up the listing, and tell us exactly what was used in the Scherzo demo?

Thanks!

[chriscaouette]

Simply beautiful. I have been awaiting this one.
Thanks Gary!
Chris

[xist]

ouch, I guess many will have to skip on this software, at least until they buy some new hardware.... :(

See the system requirements (minimum, I guess):

2.8 Ghz CPU Pentium 4 or better, 2.0 Ghz
Core 2 Duo or better recommended
2 GB RAM Recommended
45GB of free hard drive space—Professional Edition 16 bit; 67GB Professional Edition 24 bit; or 16 GB of free hard drive space—Standard Edition. 1.5GB Basic version.
Hard drive speed of at least 7200 RPM

[JohnGrant]

I'm still listening to the demos at Garritan's site. The last movement of the Moonlight seems to be gone....??? Or am I mistaken? Anyhow, a couple of short jazz improvs are up now... I like "stage" and "under the lid" the best. I don't think even the hardest critic can fault these mp3 demos. The sound is all there, virtually indistinguishable from a well-recorded Steinway. Can't complain at all. The Sosnowski Prelude #17--no mention of which perspective, but sounds like stage--is well.... stupendous, perfect Steinway sound. Excellent stuff. Very convincing.

The Beethoven suffered, I think, from the rigormortis that can so easily take hold of music that is "over-midified" or, "over-sequenced" for want of a better expression! (And I plead guilty-as-charged on this offense in many of my own classical renditions.) I don't think I'm easily persuaded by piano samples (or samples of any kind), but as the demos are starting to come out, and cynical as I am about these things, I'm beginning to be very much persuaded by this piano sample. The last time I felt that way about a sample was with the wet PMI Bos. That much-disputed sample was, of course, decidedly reverberant and therefore not useful in many, many contexts. Here we have a Steinway (D), which for whatever reasons has proved an elusive instrument for intrepid samplers (perhaps because the sound is so well-known, and therefore easy to fault): and finally, in at least the instances that I mention above, I can find nothing really I can fault. It really does the job, in my opinion. I'm looking forward to hearing more demos. I think all of us are going to be pleasantly surprised.

I haven't PLAYED the sample myself, yet, so that is a separate matter. (My interest is more in the recorded product, not in the sample as a substitute for playing the real thing live.) I leave that matter to actual owners who feel they have the fire-power to do the sample justice when it is put to the test of live performance.

JG

[Garritan]

The Beethoven suffered, I think, from the rigormortis that can so easily take hold of music that is "over-midified" or, "over-sequenced" for want of a better expression! (And I plead guilty-as-charged on this offense in many of my own classical renditions.) John,

We removed the Moonlight Presto. It was not a live performance but was included to show what the Authorized Steinway would sound like in a notation program. It was entered note for note with a mouse in notation. Notation is very important to us as we pioneered the integration of samples with notation. Notation represents the way many learn music. Our sounds are bundled in both Finale and Sibelius and we have many notation user customers. We simply wanted to show our notation users what the Steinway could sound like in a notation program.

For what it was, Bill did an excellent job on the Moonlight. However, notation input does have its limitations and some could not see beyond that. The focus became the performance rather than the instrument and people do argue endlessly over performances even with real instruments.

We could have put up perfect professionally-produced demos performed only by Steinway artists (which will come later). But we do prefer to have many USER demos using a variety of tools (like the thousands of GPO demos). I believe it is more honest and shows the product in real world use.

We'll be updating the Steinway demo page from time to time and expect to see more and more demos.

Best,

Gary Garritan

[JohnGrant]

ouch, I guess many will have to skip on this software, at least until they buy some new hardware.... :(

See the system requirements (minimum, I guess):

2.8 Ghz CPU Pentium 4 or better, 2.0 Ghz
Core 2 Duo or better recommended
2 GB RAM Recommended
45GB of free hard drive space—Professional Edition 16 bit; 67GB Professional Edition 24 bit; or 16 GB of free hard drive space—Standard Edition. 1.5GB Basic version.
Hard drive speed of at least 7200 RPM

And who would care to hazard a guess on the "most desirable" fire-power (as opposed to the "bare minimum")? I'm due for an upgrade.

JG

[Garritan]

And who would care to hazard a guess on the "most desirable" fire-power (as opposed to the "bare minimum")? I'm due for an upgrade.

JGThis is most a most desirable configuration. It will run on less, but we won't guarantee it ;) Better to state the recommended. We do want everyone to have a good responsive experience with the Authorized Steinway.

Best,

Gary

[JohnGrant]

John,

We removed the Moonlight Presto. It was not a live performance but was included to show what the Authorized Steinway would sound like in a notation program. It was entered note for note with a mouse in notation. Notation is very important to us as we pioneered the integration of samples with notation. Notation represents the way many learn music. Our sounds are bundled in both Finale and Sibelius and we have many notation user customers. We simply wanted to show our notation users what the Steinway could sound like in a notation program.

For what it was, Bill did an excellent job on the Moonlight. However, notation input does have its limitations and some could not see beyond that. The focus became the performance rather than the instrument and people do argue endlessly over performances even with real instruments.

We could have put up perfect professionally-produced demos performed only by Steinway artists (which will come later). But we do prefer to have many USER demos using a variety of tools (like the thousands of GPO demos). I believe it is more honest and shows the product in real world use.

We'll be updating the Steinway demo page from time to time and expect to see more and more demos.

Best,

Gary Garritan

That explains it!! Sequencing that is pretty much the product of step input--without much tempo fiddling, or chord-loosening after the fact--is notoriously difficult to harness to ANY sample. It is a veritable torture test of a piano sample (or any sample, for that matter). In my own view, it sets in many instances a virtually impossible hurdle where the aim is to sound realistic (as opposed to the Wendy Carlos thing, which is a completely different kettle). Having said that, I take your point, and the Garritan St. holds up incredibly well under the test!

(Of course, there is no limit to the time and detail one can put into perfecting a midi file, .... and I don't have any ethical, philosophical, musical, or aesthetic objection to purely sequenced music. I'm not even entirely sure the process of interpreting music at the computer keyboard (as opposed to the "other" keyboard) has any fundamental limitations, other than the phenomenal time it takes to work up a piece.)

JG

[JohnGrant]

It's called "The Basic Version"... Sure if they offered a student discount it would be great. But honestly - aren't you expecting too much when the product comes in three versions/prices?

The piano does sounds nice. But I'm no expert, and properbly miss out on a lot of subtle details. So I can't really tell if this is much better than what is out there now. But congratulations on the release.

OK Re the other Steinways out there. What I did was to cut a CD of ALL the mp3 demos of ALL the contenders, plus a few high end live solo piano recordings--and I own more of those than I may ever get a chance to listen to. So I listened to the Ivory, Akoustic, Black Grand, Milan, etc., etc., and with 45 odd years of fanatic attachment to listening and playing piano--which may be a bad thing or a good thing. And I listened to the CD on 3 sets of speakers, proac response 1, kef 104, and mackie hr824s. Take the Rachmaninoff Prelude, a piece that I have grown to truly hate, which many of the sample designers put up on their sites. Very hard piece to demo, actually: well, all I can say is that the only site where you can hear this piece sounding as it should, that is, as it should sound on a Steinway, is at the Garritan site. The other piano samples aren't up to it. Just A/B the all the samples, as I have, and you can hear the difference. Ditto in general with other music. It's a telling experiment.

JG

[RickD]

Has anyone tried the basic package on an early Intel Macbook dual 2 ghz? I'd like to know how much ram they have and how well the instrument is working.

[Marko]

JG,

Are you suggesting that the Garritan Steinway should be purchased only if the purchaser intends to play the Rachmaninov Prelude and nothing but the Rachmaninov Prelude?

Marko

[JohnGrant]

JG,

Are you suggesting that the Garritan Steinway should be purchased only if the purchaser intends to play the Rachmaninov Prelude and nothing but the Rachmaninov Prelude?

Marko

Forced to play that Rach Prelude and nothing else? Pure torture, of course. No. That's not what I meant. But I get the rib, because I suppose you could draw that inference from what I said. I only used the Prelude as one way to test the relative merits of the major samples out there, because everyone likes (apparently) to demo that particular classical piano cliche, which is in fact not all that easy to make convincing on a sampled piano. Ironically, I suppose, it's the sort of piece that can really bring the weaknesses of a sample to the fore.

My main point was to create a setup where ALL the main contenders for "best" or "most accurate" or "most realistic" (pick your criterion) can be quickly compared, one to the other, and ultimately against as many good LIVE recordings of the real thing as you can fit on the CD or DVD.

I use as many speakers as I can get my hands on; I take no notice of which piano or sample I'm listening to, and I bounce back and forth between different cuts. Then I'll note the track # of the one(s) I like or particularly dislike. All kinds of pieces from different genres would be on the CD, of course, not just the Rach Prel. Noting the tracks you like, you then check to see you authored the samples you particularly like. The idea is to keep your listening ears busy. I don't want to listen exclusively to any single sampled piano to evaluate it, because ones ears can so quickly accommodate.

Put to that sort of test the Garritan comes out (very clearly) ahead. The all important, and so difficult to get right, issue of timbre is what (for me) immediately sinks a sample. This sample in my view is the first to overcome that hurdle (in sampling the Steinway). It really does to my ears sound much more realistic than the other piano samples currently on the market.

JG

[NothanUmber]

Hello JG,

I listened to many of the pieces that were linked in your signature.
Some of them are among the best I have heard out of the ones that were made with a virtual piano!
So, would you please consider to post some demos with the Garritan Steinway once you get it?

(I'm still not sure whether the sequenced user demo approach is the favorable way to get a "fair" impression. Shure you can use it as a destination for a notation software. I'm just not convinced that it really helps (or in some cases perhaps even harms) to use such an advanced library for that purpose.)
Sounds that come out of a notation program will be good for a first impression of a piece that may start it's life in the imagination of the listener after and most probably not while hearing the rendered sound output (if not manually edited with an extraordinary effort). Imo it does not really matter how "realistic" the virtual piano sounds for that purpose as the outcome will still be "wrong". Perhaps it's even harmful if the tone is so realistic as that makes it harder to see the sound output as a simplified model of "the whole" that invites the listener to "extrapolate" it in the mind. Instead it suggerates that what you hear already is that piece of music - that way it may even leave a worse impression than if it would have been played with a more "abstract" sound.)

Greetings,
NothanUmber

[JohnGrant]

Thanks for the kind words.

Well.... I've been waiting quite a while for this sample to do just exactly that! I confess that I ordered the pro version today. I may have to blow some cash on a computer upgrade too. Then I may put something up from the WTC at Garritan's site for amateur demos. In the longer term, I'll be doing Book 2.

JG

[DPDAN]

Hi John,

I am using the professional version on my Dell PC that I purchased in 2004 when I got into Digital Performer and started to teach myself how to do midi.

I use a Dell Dimension 3.06 ghz single processor desktop PC with 2 gigs of ram running Windows XP home edition, and service pack 2.

The Steinway plays effortlessly on it.

Dan

[JohnGrant]

Hi John,

I am using the professional version on my Dell PC that I purchased in 2004 when I got into Digital Performer and started to teach myself how to do midi.

I use a Dell Dimension 3.06 ghz single processor desktop PC with 2 gigs of ram running Windows XP home edition, and service pack 2.

The Steinway plays effortlessly on it.

Dan
That's pretty much my fire power right now, but I find Gigastudio and most piano libraries run only just barely on it.

JG

[tfishbein82]

That's pretty much my fire power right now, but I find Gigastudio and most piano libraries run only just barely on it.

JG
Remember though that Dan meticulously sequences his pieces. Dan, are you doing any real-time playing? What are your latency settings?

I don't know if you could run that software with very-low latency and get any reasonable polyphony.

[JohnGrant]

The proof of the pudding.... I'll try the G. Stein on my aging hardware. If it's a no go, I'll upgrade.

JG