OT: Film Scores and Oscar

[EviLjuaN]

Hey guys,

My knowledge on this topic is rather limited, so I\'m wondering if you kind folks could shed any light that may satisfy my curiosity.

Have there been any film scores nominated for an Oscar that were *not* associated with a film that was considered a hit - mild or huge. I.e., has the score for a film that didn\'t do well at the box office or that was considered a critical flop ever gotten an Oscar nod?

Also, are there any scores from the past that you think were simply outstanding that didn\'t get recognition from the Academy? I assume there are a lot, but which ones stick out in your mind.

And lastly, have any scores been nominated that were not grandiose orchestral affairs, or that were mainly electronic-based?

[Scott Speed]

One of the biggest Academy blunders, IMHO, was the fact that Basil Poledouris wasn\'t even nominated for Conan the Barbarian...that\'s a great score. I think Danny Elfman has only been nominated once, and the fact that everyone and his dog have copied his style at one point or another are a testament to his talents.
First thing that comes to mind when I think of ground breaking electronic scores is Vangelis with the Chariots Of Fire soundtrack. Very ahead of its time with the synthesizer usage.

Regards,
Scott

[This message has been edited by Scott Speed (edited 03-26-2002).]

[Maarten Spruijt]

Oscar nominations really aren\'t about quality... just about popularity and fame... and budget http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

... but it\'s a nice multimedia spectacle :P

[Joris de Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maarten Spruijt:
Oscar nominations really aren\'t about quality... just about popularity and fame... and budget http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

... but it\'s a nice multimedia spectacle :P<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To me, the oscar for the LOTR score was a prime example of this. Sure, Howard Shore\'s score wasn\'t bad, but it wasn\'t particularly great either. It is one of those typical \'bandwagon\' moments, where if a movie does well at the oscars, suddenly all aspects of that movie gets oscars, regardless of quality. Titanic is a good example of this.

Ah well......

Cheers,

Joe

[Maarten Spruijt]

Exactly... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

[Jamieh]

I agree. While the LOTR score worked fine in the film, I hardly consider it to be outstanding. Neither do most of the composers I know. But how many of the academy voters are actually musicians? How many of them do you think actually even listened to all of the scores before voting?

[Z6]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jamieh:
I agree. While the LOTR score worked fine in the film, I hardly consider it to be outstanding. Neither do most of the composers I know. But how many of the academy voters are actually musicians? How many of them do you think actually even listened to all of the scores before voting? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All of the scores are nominated by film composer members of the Academy, then all (around 5,600) members vote for the winner from those nominated by the specialists.

[Simon Ravn]

I strongly disagree with the philosophy that all movie music is really about is whether it FITS the pictures or not. If that is the only thing a composer have to achieve, then I am out of here http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Hopefully the music adds to the film - enhances and possibly even makes it a good listening experience for the viewer. Sometimes well composed and good music can even make a movie experience better than the movie deserves. To me, Far and Away is a good example of this. Hell, even my mother who has no interest in movie music whatsoever told me that the best part was the music and the images.

So if all the Oscars reflect is whether the music is well-FITTING or not, then I guess the LOTR score deserved the Oscar. Had it been about contribution, composition and MUSIC (yeah - music), I don\'t think LOTR would\'ve deserved the honor.

[EviLjuaN]

Danny Elfman has only been nominated once? How heinous! I am shocked, though somehow I think I already knew that. Do you recall which score? I wouldn\'t be surprised if it was for Edward Scissorhands. (one of the greatest film scores of all time... marvelous in every way, shape and form)

[Jamieh]

Gotta agree with that Far and Away reference Simon. I can just see Williams sitting there watching the film and thinking \"man this film sucks. Maybe if I play the music really really loud, no one will notice.\" http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

I came away thinking the movie wasn\'t very good, but I went right out and bought the soundtrack. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

I think that the academy usually does a decent job of nominating worthy scores. But I rarely agree with the winner.

[apessino]

I find it unbelievable that A.I. didn\'t win for best score.. IMHO it is JW\'s best work since E.T., and certainly one of the most inspired and technically proficient scores ever. I thought the LOTR score was about as predictable and conventional as they come.. well put together but utterly forgettable.

Also, I was amazed to see that Yann Tiersen\'s score for \"Amelie\" wasn\'t even nominated. Such an original piece, and such a great match for the film.. Oh well.. at least Randy Newman finally won his statue.. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

A-

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Andrea G. Pessino (not female, just Italian)
Blizzard Entertainment

[Maarten Spruijt]

Apart from the academy voting, let\'s not forget about THE BRIBING! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Maarten Spruijt (edited 03-26-2002).]

[PatS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EviLjuaN:
Danny Elfman has only been nominated once? How heinous!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, twice in 1998: \"Men in Black\" (Musical/Comedy Score) and \"Good Will Hunting\" (Dramatic Score). I know this only because he was planning to buy the Lotte Lehman estate in Hope Ranch (Santa Barbara). My landlord, an architect, met Elfman to discuss the architectural value of the estate. I guess I just had Elfman on the brain that year, as a consequence of listening to my landlord\'s take on the meeting (he was very impressed with Elfman). I have little knowledge of what Elfman has written since then. Oh, wait a minute, didn\'t he do that headless horseman flick with about six orchestrators?

Pat

[Simon Ravn]

Well I dont know about Elfman. He seems to be nominated for the wrong scores http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Men in Black was IMHO not Oscar-worthy in any way. To Die For, is a totally different story, as is Edward Scissorhands. But I dont think he was even nominated for any of those.

[esperlad]

Musical comedy score is no longer a catagory. They omitted that one. Instead we now have \"best animated feature\".

I thought it would have interesting if Elman won for \"Good Will Hunting\" since a score album was not commerically issued. I imagine that some label might have released something if Elfman won the osar. I have a copy from the promo version. It\'s a great score.

[Vertigo50]

I have to disagree with most of the opinions of the LOTR score. I really do think it was the best of the bunch. Admittedly, the score was not all that fantastic when listening to the cd, but within the context of the movie, it definitely helped create the moods, whether it was tension, fear, or just overall scariness.

The other scores were just your typical output from your typical composers. I don\'t really see John Williams winning another Oscar any time soon. Sure, he\'s a good composer, but he hasn\'t really done anything original for quite some time. He\'s settled into what works for him, and that\'s just fine.

[timzydee]

I remember thinking as I was watching LOTR, \"this score is dumb. The heroic action fanfare theme is a joke\". I\'ve never thought that before while watching a movie even though, as a composer, I\'m more sensative to music than the average viewer. I\'m very dissapointed that it beat out A.I., which nearly gave me chills just in the little 3 second clip you heard as the nominees were named.

[KingIdiot]

hmmm
I\'m gonna get slammed in the IRC room for this,

but I think I understand why Shore won the oscar.

I have the FotR soundtrack...got it as a gift,...and have NOT listened to it!!!

...nothing in the movie really impressed me musically... however the fact that lyrics for the choir were written in \"tolkien\" language gives it a big edge in the ralm of \"film score\" IMO. It works as part of the movie more so than musical context just because of this.

It stands on its own in a different way that JW\'s music for both AI and HP do. In a way people aren\'t \"used to\".

While musically I don\'t remember anything that made me say \"WOW\" when watching LotR: FotR. I was appreciative of how I found out that the choir lyrics and music had more connection with the \"histroy\" of Tolkien\'s \"universe\"

anyhow...musically I was more impressed iwth JW\'s AI and Hp over FotR, but can in a \"damned\" way appreciate the oscars for choosing HS, for film\'s sake...not for music\'s sake.

IMO it was between AI and LotR. The synthy weird stuff in AI and the choir, lyrics, and history in LotR. In that context LotR wins....

Harry Potter while n great music...is music that in the context of the film is as \"done that been there\" as any hans Zimmer MV sound Track

bTW I like Mv scores ALOT, in Fact Face/Off is the reason I want to do \"film score\" type music http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

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Really...I am an Idiot

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 03-27-2002).]

[Jamieh]

Harry Potter was great, but was quite similar to Hook. A.I. was interesting, but the movie bombed. LOTR was a huge success that lost in a lot of other categories, so it \"made sense\" for it to win this category, which honestly only a very small percentage of people even care about.

Plus, considering some of the excellence that Williams has won for, should he really win for either A.I. or Harry Potter? Was either of those scores a Star Wars or an E.T.? Williams has won plenty--I don\'t think he probably cares that much anymore. It probably meant a whole bunch more to Shore. John Williams has been nominated for more Oscars than any other person in history, and that is an accomplishment and an honor in itself. In fact, since his first nomination in \'67, there have only been EIGHT years where he HASN\'T been nominated! (68, 70, 76, 79, 85, 86, 92, 94)

Personally I probably would have voted for Potter over LOTR, but Williams voters were probably split between AI and Potter, making it much tougher for either to win. Williams has been nominated multiple times in many years and that has certainly hurt him in terms of winning.

[This message has been edited by Jamieh (edited 03-27-2002).]

[Joris de Man]

Well, you can\'t argue with taste! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif
But common guys; Shore being original because he used Tolkien language/Elfish in the score?
Especially if you\'ve read the books that would be one of the first things you\'d think about; there are a lot moments in the books where they break out in spontaneous poetry recital or a song in \'Tolkienesque\'.
And although this score might be a departure from his original style, it didn\'t have any particular great emotional moments. Functional, but unexciting. It didn\'t hamper the film, but (to me at least) it didn\'t help it greatly either.
A.I would have been my oscars choice, despite one or two godawful vocal tracks (with the female soprano).
The first track (Meccha Wold is the title, i think) is a real departure of the JW style we all know and love, and I just can\'t desribe what it did to me when I first heard it in the movie.
I thought him getting nominated twice was a bit silly though.....

[KingIdiot]

I never said it was original )

but int the end... It means something to the film more than the way it \"helped\" move the film along

of course this isn\'t reall Shores or \"jackson\'s doing its more Tolkien\'s than anything...

but they could have easily ignored that ... and done something completely mediocre.... oh wait... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

seriously tho, while its not original it connected to the film in a way that all the otehr s cou;dn\'t have... and I knwo that lookign at it this way means that any composer culd have one doign this...

It sort of defines the idea I have for the reason I think it should have one

One of my favorite directors is Fincher...and Zemeckis being another.

still its because of their visual style and thought process, they can\'t always connect with the movie as a whole in story.

Everyone seems to throw egotistical \"style\" into everything they do and alot of LotR seems to ignore ego\'s

which I think should be applauded.


however if I were to choose a favorite musically. It might have to be AI.

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Simon Ravn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KingIdiot:

Harry Potter while n great music...is music that in the context of the film is as \"done that been there\" as any hans Zimmer MV sound Track

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man... it\'s gonna be kick-night on IRC tonight!!!! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by Simon Ravn (edited 03-27-2002).]