Rare Giga Percussion Available

[digitalc]

Just wanted to let you know that DC Gigasamples Exotic Percussion Vol. 1 is now shipping. Instruments include huge African drums, Ocean Drum, Talking Drum, tabla sets and other hard-to-find percussion. The CD-ROM contains over 800 individual samples! Most instruments have 4 velocities. Many have release triggers. We\'re offering a special deal on it until April.

There are two new demos up on the site as well as more information and full instrument list.
Visit http://www.digitalcomplete.com (\"http://www.digitalcomplete.com\")

Or use this direct link if you have javascript enabled: http://www.digitalcomplete.com/soundtools/content/dcgigasamples.html (\"http://www.digitalcomplete.com/soundtools/content/dcgigasamples.html\")


Thanks for your time,
Dave C. Polcino
---------------
Digital Complete
Tools and Knowledge for Multimedia http://www.digitalcomplete.com (\"http://www.digitalcomplete.com\")
dave@digitalcomplete.com
---------------

[zquarles]

Sounds very interesting Dave, thanks for the info!!
:-)
-Zack

[thesoundsmith]

Dave, are you planning another eBay offering for this product?

Dasher

[Joel Olives]

Dave,

I took a listen to your demos on the percussion disk and I couldn\'t help myself. The price was right and I had a balance in my PayPal account, so I ordered a copy. I can\'t want for it to come in. Keep up the good work!

Joel

[Mark_Knecht]

Dave,
Just like Joel, I love what I hear.

Only a couple of questions:

1) Can you supply any information about the key mappings of the instruments? For instance, on the Tabla Set, which I\'m interested in, what keys do what?

2) Please respond as to any copy protection or lack there of associated with this library.

I suspect I\'m buying a copy as soon as I receive these answers.

Thanks!

Mark

[This message has been edited by Mark_Knecht (edited 03-27-2002).]

[digitalc]

Maybe down the line a bit. Right now they\'re selling pretty well.

Thanks,Dave

[digitalc]

All the key mapping are listed in a text file on the CD-ROM, as well as some tips and suggestions on how to best use the instruments.

The tabla set has both the Bayan and the Dayan. Here\'s the mapping:

Dayan- 4 vel.
C3- beater center
D- beater edge
E- stick center
F- stick edge
G- hand center
A- hand center
B- hand edge
C4- hand edge
D- hand mute (damps G3,A3,B3,C4)
E- hand mute (damps G3,A3,B3,C4)

Bayan- 4 vel.
C3- beater center
D- beater edge
E- stick center
F- stick edge
G- hand center
A- hand center
B- hand edge
C4- hand edge
D- hand mute (damps G3,A3,B3,C4)
E- hand mute (damps G3,A3,B3,C4)

The mutes sound great when the damp a stilling ringing hand hit. Also, when you see G3 and A3 for example, they both say \"hand center\", that\'s a total of eight unique samples (4 per key in this case), so playing just those two keys (especially when mapped to a percussion or drum pad) really sounds like you\'re using both hands to play.

Copy protection? Well, please don\'t! :-)
The instruments are easy to install, just drag them to your Giga-database and refresh your list.

[Mark_Knecht]

Dave,
Purchase made! thanks!
Mark

[PatS]

Did you notice the product guarantee?

Top of the page:
\"Professional-strength sample banks for Tascam\'s GigaSampler and GigaStudio. Recorded in a professional 24-bit studio. Don\'t let the low price fool you, these are top notch, custom made samples. In fact, we guarantee you\'ll find them a useful addition to your sample collection*.\"

Bottom of the page:
\"* If you are not satisfied with your DC product, you can return it to us and we\'ll send you a complete refund (minus shipping) once we have received the return and it is in its original condition.\"

Not quite sure what \"original condition\" means, but those are great prices regardless. Time to start digging around for some loose change in the couch.

Pat

[Mark_Knecht]

Pat,
I did notice the 24-bit statement, however, my family room is a 24-bit studio these days, so that\'s a pretty common capability.

On the other hand, I can tell you from my own 24-bit record, the driving factors with a project like this will likely be:

1) The quality of the drums themselves. Do they sound \'good\', \'interesting\' or \'musical\'. (Feel free to subsitute your own ideas here.)

2) The mics chosen to do the recording.

3) The mic preamps.

If the above 3 items are great, then this could be a great addition to the GSt world.

The other thing I\'m curious about is the tuning of drums like Tablas and Djembes, which are so driven by that sort of thing. I\'m be curious to see how well they fit in with my own drums, and the songs I\'m working on.

Fun!

Cheers,
Mark

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PatS:
Did you notice the product guarantee?

Top of the page:
\"Professional-strength sample banks for Tascam\'s GigaSampler and GigaStudio. Recorded in a professional 24-bit studio. Don\'t let the low price fool you, these are top notch, custom made samples. In fact, we guarantee you\'ll find them a useful addition to your sample collection*.\"

Bottom of the page:
\"* If you are not satisfied with your DC product, you can return it to us and we\'ll send you a complete refund (minus shipping) once we have received the return and it is in its original condition.\"

Not quite sure what \"original condition\" means, but those are great prices regardless. Time to start digging around for some loose change in the couch.

Pat<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[PatS]

Mark:

Actually, I was struck by his return policy, which I thought didn\'t exist in this industry. I can\'t imagine that I would return the product, especially since we\'re only talking $35 (until the end of the month), but it\'s nice to see a developer brave enough to offer a complete refund.

Pat

P.S. Please share your impressions of the library when time permits.

[Eric G]

Hey all,

I thought I\'d chime in and say what a great value I think this library is. I\'m not in the league of many of the professionals who frequent this board, but to my ears the recording quality reaches the high standards many have come to expect.

I especially like the recording techniques for instruments like the djembes. They were sampled from up high and down low on the drum, capturing different timbres. Copy a track for the high djembe to the low djembe, then assign a controller to crossfade, and you can achieve some pretty organic-sounding nuances. The ahe samples are also very playable.

Can\'t go wrong for $40, folks.

--Eric

[Mark_Knecht]

Pat,
I agree, however, on most libraries that are factory sealed, usually they have some form of sticker on them that says something to the effect \"If you don\'t agree to the license, then you may return this\". The usual Catch 22 is that the license is inside where you can\'t read it! (Or your supposed to go read it on a web site, or whatever.)

Certainly for less than $40 including shipping, I won\'t be sending it back I\'m sure, and I also certainly post back what I think of it. I\'d been wanting to find a Table set and hadn\'t had the time to do more than a quick search on Google which failed. With a little bit of \'Scarbee Karma\', when this opportunity presented itself, I am oblidged to dance.

I\'m excited to try this with my new drum trigger pads played by hand. Seems like a fun thing to try.

Cheers,
Mark

[This message has been edited by Mark_Knecht (edited 03-28-2002).]

[thesoundsmith]

Haven\'t ordered et (tomorrow!) but the one complaint I may have even before I hear the samples is with the tabla as mapped-tabla have very explicit strikes, each of which has a name (na, ti, tin, dhin, ghe, etc.) In fact, it is common during solos for tabla players to recite the bols, the names of the beats, and then play what they just sang. I would like to see something that maps the strokes to the \'proper\' bols, for two reasons-faster understanding of the set, and comparison to the actual instrument \'standards\' for usability.

I realize most composers in the Western arena probably could care less, but this is fairly important to me.

Dasher

[Mark_Knecht]

Dasher,
Great point. I remember some of the old Ravi Shankar vinyls I had 25 years ago where his Tabla player (Was it Zakhir Husain or Chatur Lal in those days? I can\'t remember!) would chant the hits and then make the hit. It was such a learning experience when I finally discovered he was teaching through his playing.

Anyone who has the chance to visit Ali Akbar Khan\'s place will, I think, never be disappointed...

Cheers,
Mark

[digitalc]

Thanks for all the positive comments. We\'ve gotten a lot via e-mail as well.

The return policy is simple. I personally find these samples useable for my own creations, and I know the price is super low compared to other libraries (and the time that\'s gone into creating them). So it\'s a very low risk proposition on our part. We haven\'t had a single return from the Exotic Percussion or Fender Strat sets!

\"Original condition\" just means 1) you can\'t, of course, keep the disc AND get your money back and 2)if it\'s all broken into pieces or something, well first, that would be really weird, and second, you shouldn\'t get your money back then. :-)

I studied the various attacks and names for the tabla set, and most of it, I believe, is represented in the samples provided. But at the same time, since our session musicians (and myself) aren\'t of the calibre of a Zakhir Husain on tabla, we didn\'t want to risk assigning sounds to the incorrect names, so better to play it safe.

Soundwise, I think if you take the Roland SPD20\'s tabla sounds and compare them the DC Gigasample sounds, ours are way more realistic and raw. That\'s the kind of samples I prefer, for their realism.

[PatS]

Thanks for the clarification. I found some change, so look for my PO before month\'s end.

Pat

[digitalc]

Cool! I noticed some discussion above about the recording process. I\'ll post some info about Digital Complete Studios a little later, and tell you about the equipment we use.

[thesoundsmith]

DC,

That\'s why the \'proper\' tabla bols are best performed by someone who has studied the instrument. Several of the most common strokes are not intuitive, and result in very distinctive sounds. I don\'t know where you are located, but a conversation with the folks at the Ali Akbar College of Music in Marin would provide lots of insight.

I just ordered, and don\'t expect to have any reason to return the library, even if the bols are incorrect, your guitar lib has found regular usage in my projects.

Mark, Ravi Shankar\'s tabla player for many years was Alla Rakha, who I had the privelege of studying under in New York back in the late sisties. His \'second in command\' was Colin Walcott, and the training was done in traditional Indian class-style setting. But I left the class to move to California to study sarod with Ali Akbar Khan. His tabla teacher at the time, Shankar Ghosh, was also a wonderful tabla player (much more to my taste than the current teacher, Swapan Choudhri, who is a fine musician, but not as subtle in tone and texture, IMHO.)

Chatur Lal dies tragically at an early age, and had recorded a number of sessions with both Ali Akbar Khan and Ravi Shankar, and a couple of jugalbandi (duets) that really showed how two musicians having studied under the same master could anticipate each other\'s phrasing and structure.

But my favorite for tone and depth was Mahapurush Misra, who was Ali Akbar Khan\'s tabla player on most of his most important recordings. Listen to the recording of Raga Chandranandan, originally on vinyl from Connoisseur Society, now remastered by Bob Ludwig on AMMP CD 9001. This may have been Khansahib\'s greatest recording, it certainly was his deepest recorded foray into recursive themes.

Dasher

[Mark_Knecht]

Dasher,
Thanks for the really interesting information. It\'s very apparent you have both interest and education in the topic. Great to know. (And another thing to talk about should I make it down to Monterey one of these days.

I agree that it would be an amazingly cool idea to get someone specificly trained in this instrument to actually play the samples. That could even be an interesting direction for some of these sample libraries to go. Clapton\'s Strat. Shankar\'s Sitar. Bruford\'s drums. (Well, I guess he sort of tried that, right?!)

But even if it was just an advanced student in the instrument, it would probably be quite interesting.

Neat discussion. Thanks!

Cheers,
Mark

[digitalc]

Dasher,
Off topic, but you\'re in Monterey? I was there in September. I love that city! We were fortunate to be out on the pier when there was a MASSIVE lightning storm and seals/sea lions right below us. Truly memorable.

[thesoundsmith]

dc,
Yep, live and gig in Monterey, CA. If you\'re ever back this way, I invite you (and mark, and King, and just about anybody on the list except composer22(!) - just kidding c22, you\'re welcome too, but you\'d hate the gig!

Every Thursday, Fri. Sat 6:30-10:30 at the Monterey Beach Resort Hotel right on the water at the Canyon Del Rey exit from Highway 1.

I play a reeeealllllllly bad Samick piano, a reasonable-sounding Hammond A100 and a couple of synths, my partner sings and plays drums and runs the sequencer (Roland SC-88 at the moment, trying to get a GigaGigRig for better sound/orchestration

We do R&B, jazz, some funk and light rock, the kind of stuff you expect to hear at a hotel, but thanks to the sequences, we can get a pretty big sound.

It\'s fun (sometimes) and pretty quiet (the owner refuses to advertise!) Just be sure to say hello, even if you hate the music...

Dasher

[Mark_Knecht]

Hey all,
I received my Exotic Percussion disk today in the mail. (Thanks for the fast service Dave!) Plugged it in and brought up a few samples to play with really quickly. Very nice. Everything seems to be pretty well put together. The velocity samples on many of the drums are very playable and very intuitive.

The disk seems to be well recorded, and so far the samples seem to be such that you could use them right up front in a mix if you wanted to. The are some fun scratches and palm/finger noises. Looks like an awful lot of good stuff here.

I\'d recommend folks start with the three Mixed Percussion gigs to get a good idea of the breadth of the disk. It seems that nearly everything is represented in those. From there is seems pretty easy to move to individual drums that you\'d have an interest in.

As it happened, I had a Pro Tools session up that was using GSt for a number of things, (piano, bass, drums) so I just added the Exotic Percussion to that performance file and started using it. Everything sounded very good and had a great \'room sound\'. Then I remembered that my Pro Tools session was using a Waves RVerb, so I muted that and was immediately in shock. Everything sounded so dry! I put the RVerb back in and was happy again.

I\'ll have to let my ears rest awhile and then try them later with no reverb to get a better idea of the actual samples, but my initial impression is quite a good deal. Very happy so far.

Cheers,
Mark

[digitalc]

Glad to hear you\'re enjoying it! Your orders are certainly keeping me busy this weekend. :-)

There was a question about Digital Complete Studios earlier. Here are some the mics and equipment used for Exotic Percussion Vol.1

Mics: AKG C1000S for the attacks. These are often used for drumset overheads. Nice and clear.
Sennheiser e604s for the bottoms of the mid-sized percussion like the dumbek and medium djembe. Sennheiser e602 for the huge/deep bass of the larger percussion. I love this mic and usually use it for kick drum recording.

Everything goes into an 8 ch. Presonous Digimax into a MOTU rig (24i, 308 and 2496), so the path stays digital the whole way. Then sample editing in Peak and Sound Forge. Actual playing takes place in a padded sound booth.

I was considering making all DC samples available in 24 bit since Gigastudio can handle that with the right hardware. Would anybody be interested in this for the future?

[thesoundsmith]

24-bit? You betcha, Red Ryder. Tremendous difference when mixing 24+ tracks, so you\'re already losing 8 bits worth of subjective data.

Dasher
P.S. WHEN were you here with a thunderstorm? I\'ve been here almost 30 years, and almost NEVER get to experience a good thunderstorm. As an East Coastie, I miss \'em...

[KingIdiot]

oh there\'ve been a few lately you ahve to admit Ssmith. A few months ago there were lightning strikes hitting the streets here in Daly City, I spent the night watching them and grabbing some thunder claps to MD.

I got afraid of sticking my hand up in the air with the mic when I could actually see the lightning bolts crawl accross the clouds.

I always thought that was only in the movies.

The thunder was rattlign the double paned glas doors here. crazy....louder than the airplanes that go over here.

BTW. DigiC, prices look good http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif I\'m interested and am THAT broke... so soon http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[Mark_Knecht]

Absolutely!! Even in my project studio I\'m going digital from GSt through s/pdif or ADAT back to Pro Tools. I want 24-bit everywhere. Once the audio leave the mic/pre/ADC you choose, it won\'t be analog again until it hits my headphones. Everything should be 24-bit.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by digitalc:
I was considering making all DC samples available in 24 bit since Gigastudio can handle that with the right hardware. Would anybody be interested in this for the future?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[thesoundsmith]

Yeah, King, there have been a few in the last year or so, but I\'m from Massachusetts, where you\'d get two or three a month minimum in the season. I used to love laying in bed in my aunt\'s back porch in the summertime, in Nantasket Beach, watching lightning strikes over the Atlantic like gigantic sizzling Jacob\'s ladders. Our California sturm und drang pale in comparison (and I\'ll bet the Cost storms pale in comparison to the midwest tornado belt-but they\'re not fun...

Dasher

[digitalc]

It was in late September. We drove from San Diego up to San Francisco and then made our way back down the coast.

Which do you all prefer? 24bit/44khz, 24bit/48khz or 24/96khz?

[Mark_Knecht]

Personally I\'d prefer 24/44.1 AND 24/88.2.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by digitalc:
It was in late September. We drove from San Diego up to San Francisco and then made our way back down the coast.

Which do you all prefer? 24bit/44khz, 24bit/48khz or 24/96khz?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[David Sears]

I got my percussion set in the mail on saturday and got to spend about an hour trying it out. I like the sounds and will be able to find a lot of uses for them. If the guitars are as good as the percussion I\'ll probably buy it too. Good job!

[Simon Ravn]

Dave, I just listened to the demos. Sounds really great - and a great price! So I will order this as soon as possible. Do you only ship from the US or do you have some \'outlet\' in Europe, or a European distributor?

[thesoundsmith]

Sample rates-24-bit 44.1, and probably (hate it, my Mackie d8b will NEVER get there!) 24/96, but for now 44.1 is what CDs are using, tho lots of folks on THIS forum are film guys, they need 48K. What a mess!!! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Dasher

[digitalc]

Yes, that\'s why I\'ve been staying away from 24bit, it\'s the khz thing that nobody can agree on. If my project is ending up on a CD I try to stay at 44.1 since I\'ve heard from many different articles that going from 48 to 44 isn\'t ideal. At the same time, more and more formats are requiring 48, like DVDs.

88.2 and 96 might be nice, but then again, fewer people have hardware that supports these formats. Thanks for the opinions, keep them coming (you can also post on our forum at http://www.digitalcomplete.com/community/forum/index.php (\"http://www.digitalcomplete.com/community/forum/index.php\")

As far as shipping to other countries, it costs us a little more, but we get non-US orders all the time. So, yes, that\'s fine.

[Mark_Knecht]

Yes, very true. This is one weakness of this sort of library, at least today. Many of these drums, like the Djembe, can produce many diverse sounds that just aren\'t here. The table can be so sensitive to palm presure from the hand not doing the hit. Nothing like that it here, nor do I know how it could be with GSt technology today, but we can hope for the future.

None the less, like you Dasher, I like this library a lot. I played it from my keyboard last night for about 40 minutes, just starting some compositions and testing that the recorded MIDI playback would be good. It seems to be.

Cheers,
Mark

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by thesoundsmith:
I still hate the tabla: bayan, dayan, and composite sets all miss the point of the drum completely. There is no pitch-change Bayan sample, which is the single most recognised characteristic of the \'tabla\' sound.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[thesoundsmith]

I\'ve had my DC Percussion for several days now, and in line with my earlier comments, I have to say:

I will not be returning these, despite the generous refund policy (thanks Dave!).

The recording quality is wery good, the mappings between drums is consistent, which makes for faster learing the sets, and there are some very usable sounds,

BUT:

I still hate the tabla: bayan, dayan, and composite sets all miss the point of the drum completely. There is no pitch-change Bayan sample, which is the single most recognised characteristic of the \'tabla\' sound.

I could rant on for several paragraphs, but it\'s not necessary. I knew from the earlier posts I would not be able to produce classical tabla patterns with these. Still they are usable as generic percussion samples (I doubt I will ever use an udu the way it\'s performers would recognise, either http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif !)

Bottom line, some very nice and playable gigs for a VERY reasonable price.

[thesoundsmith]

I agree, Mark. I\'m not sorry I purchased it, the sound quality is quite good, and I can recommend it as an inexpensive add-on with some unique sonic events (tabla with a stick-you CAN beat it with a stick! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif )

Dasher