I think I broke my Steinway already...

[jjloving]

I'm pretty sure this is something wrong somewhere with my system as opposed to being a Steinway/Aria issue, but maybe not. Just looking for some opinions on the problem before sending an error report so that I'm not wasting someone's time with a problem that doesn't lie in the product.

I load the Steinway as a VST in Sonar...the synth rack displays the Steinway, but when I try to open the Steinway GUI all hell breaks loose. I get a bunch of rapid error-looking alerts (it's hard to tell because they flash one right after the other) and then the BSOD comes up saying "Driver IRQL Not Less or Equal" and then it reboots.

I've googled it, but all I've really found are suggestions for either bad RAM or a video card problem. I looked for upgrades to my video card drivers and recently there was a new upgrade put out, so I uninstalled the old one and installed the new one...same problem. I ran the RAM check suggested a few weeks back (when I thought my hard drive was going belly-up) and it didn't return any errors.

If it matters as far as the installation goes, I left everything at the default locations except for the samples which are on an external samples drive. And I've tried uninstalling/reinstalling the Steinway with no difference.

This is not a problem in stand-alone, only within Sonar...could it be a Sonar problem? Have any of you Sonar users had any trouble? What am I overlooking?

Thanks!!
Jon

[David (plogue)]

Hi

While BSODs are a sign of some form of hardware/driver trouble, it is always interesting to check out the details of the logs prior to such a crash.

Could you run the "Report Technical Issue" shortcut in the start menu and follow the instructions? Im a bit curious.

Which version of Sonar is it? I tried SteinwayVST on 6 and 7 both x64 and 32 bits.

Cheers

[jjloving]

I just sent the logs. I took a peek at a few of them, and uh...wow, do all those numbers and letters actually mean something ~| The only thing I saw that I could actually understand was the word DESTROYED. I do know what that one means, and I don't think it's a good word to have in there :eek:.

We'll see what comes of it...If I were you though, I wouldn't let me come within about 1000 feet of your equipment. I seem to DESTROY alot of this stuff :p:D

jon

[David (plogue)]

Hi

Looking at your logs now and investigating, thanks for sending them over,
will see what i can find.

BTW The word "destroyed" in C++ is plain normal :)
You create objects and you destroy them when they are not needed anymore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destructor_(computer_science)

Cheers

[Pingu]

OK this thread wasn't as much fun as I thought it was going to be.

I once broke a Steinway. Back in my youth I adored really violent music, and my 1st year recital of Ginastera's 1st Piano Sonata saw off two strings. The lecturer who had responsibility for maintenance of the department's instruments nearly had kittens.

[Jaybee]

Jon,

Man, that really sicks! I feel your pain.

FWIW, it's working fine for me in Sonar 7.02 and also as standalone. My DAW is a dedicated machine and has never enjoyed being on the 'net. 95% of the programs on it are music related. My samples are loaded on an external USB Seagate 400GB 7200 rpm drive.

I hope you get your problem solved. You are certainly in good hands with David.

[rfdillon]

It's working fine for me too, in Sonar 7.02 Producer edition and as a standalone. I just received it Saturday, however, and am still playing with the parameters. I really like "Gary's Favorite" settings.
The only problem that I notice is that in stand alone, and in Sonar (before I freeze the synth) I seem to get a lot of crackles. I am monitoring the CPU and disc usage via the task manager, and the samples are running off of a Raid 0 array, so I have no disc issues, nor CPU issues. The crackles seem to go away, however, once I freeze the synth.

[jjloving]

Well to me at least it's looking more like a problem with Sonar. I don't know what problem that would be, but I tried loading it in Sibelius for the first time (I had onyl let Sib rescan the VST's before, but not loaded it) and it came up fine. And stand-alone works fine too, so that leaves something going wrong between Sonar and the computer, yes?

I didn't mention this before, because it really hadn't occurred to me, but not too long ago I upgraded from Sonar 6.2 PE to the current version...but this is the first I've had any trouble. I mentioned to David when I sent the logs that the Steinway did load in Sonar just fine after first installing it, and I had recorded a backing track for my sister (all with excellent CPU performance) before having any problems. So maybe something didn't quite gel completely with the installation and running the Steinway a few times brought the issue forward...I really have no idea.

For now I'll wait to hear from David before messing with anything else, and depending on what he does or doesn't find I'll try a clean install of Sonar, talk to the folks at Cakewalk, and if that doesn't fix anything I'll come back here accepting donations for a new computer:D

thanks guys

jon

[bigears]

Surely this will be fixable. I am running the pro version in Sonar 7 PE as a VST and it is working fine. I installed it with the 16 bit samples and I have a bit of crackling until I close the GUI and then everything clears up. Good luck, I hope your problem gets solved soon. John

[ab53]

As I said in another thread, I am using Steinway Pro on a Pentium D960 with Asus P5WD2 motherboard with 4 gbs of ram with the 3gb switch. Using Sonar 6.
I am using the 24 bit samples. I first tried it on an IDE drive that was 7200 RPM and I got some glitches. Then I switched to a WD raptor 10,000 K drive and I have no glitches and can turn on anything in the GUI with no glitches.
I have to believe that the new Core 2 Duos or the Quad processors would do even better.
But I do believe it is wise to use a 10,000 gb raptor drive.

[jjloving]

I really don't think it's a hard drive issue...I've only installed the 16-bit samples because I figured my CPU might be a little slow to handle the 24-bit (Athlon 64 3500+/2.21 GHz and 2gigs RAM). The sample drive is a 500gig 7200 RPM WD something-or-other (I can't recall off the top of my head) and is connected to one of the mobo's SATA ports.

I've not had any cracking popping or glitches or anything like that whether in stand alone, sibelius, or Sonar (unless I had other instruments loaded), and like I said earlier it loaded up just fine the first few days, and I was able to do some recording. It's crashing (only in Sonar) in new projects without any samples loaded because something somewhere craps itself immediately upon trying to open the GUI.

I mean I guess it's possible that the hard drive is playing a role, it just seems unlikely to me...of course I'm also the one who killed it so what do I know?! ;)

I'm just a little frustrated...

but at least I still have the stand alone...and dang if it's not love :D

thanks
jon

[jmpaquette]

Jon -

I'm sure David will make some suggestions, but putting all realistic and practical elements to the side for a moment, perhaps we can clear this up:

Poltergeists, plain and simple! :D

Seriously, though, I'm sorry to hear you're having problems. If enough of us send good thoughts your way perhaps your computer will live, and you won't have to do any more than make a few adjustments.

Best,



Joe

[rfdillon]

I had an issue with one Sonar file that I was working on, so I removed the soft synths, saved the file, the copied the only MIDI track in the file to a new file, then inserted the Steinway, and that fixed the problem. You might try this to see if it fixes your problem.

[ab53]

Does not sound like a hard drive issue to me based on your post. Are you using Windows XP? Have you done all the tweaks to XP for audio and video? http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=590758
Are you using ASIO drivers in Cakewalk? Have you tried increasing the latency? Have you tried changing the buffers for your hard drive in in the audio options in Cakewalk?

I really don't think it's a hard drive issue...I've
jon

[jjloving]

Poltergeists, plain and simple! :D



oh so that's what it is!! I was starting to think it was tired of being played so terribly ;)


I had an issue with one Sonar file that I was working on, so I removed the soft synths, saved the file, the copied the only MIDI track in the file to a new file, then inserted the Steinway, and that fixed the problem. You might try this to see if it fixes your problem.

Well it's happening in new projects too (i.e. with no data on the midi track) but I'll try this with the couple projects I did manage it set up in...but is there some way to force Sonar not to load the synths on startup? The ones I've tried to open crash because I saved the project with the GUI open...

Does not sound like a hard drive issue to me based on your post. Are you using Windows XP? Have you done all the tweaks to XP for audio and video? http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=590758
Are you using ASIO drivers in Cakewalk? Have you tried increasing the latency? Have you tried changing the buffers for your hard drive in in the audio options in Cakewalk?

Yes I'm on XP SP2 and glancing quickly through that list most of that is stuff I've already done, but there are a few things that I don't think (or just don't remember) doing, so I'll check those out too. I'm using the ASIO4All drivers (stuck with on-board sound for the time being...on the list of things to change). I have tried adjusting the latency and the buffers and basically anything that had a slider (ok, a slight exaggeration) but no dice.

I don't have an audio dedicated system, and one of the replies on the cakewalk forum mentioned doing a dual boot with one of them being everyday use, the other audio only and not networked. Maybe jumping ahead a little, but would that be something I should consider doing, to try and keep the audio part as clean as possible? This wouldn't prevent anything from happening to the files since the partitions would be available on either boot, but only protect the OS, right? wrong? probably wrong! I've got a number of Spyware and adware and virus scan and whatever else that are all returning a clean bill of health...but maybe they're lying to me ;).

Thanks again, I really appreciate the suggestions, and unrestful spirits:p

Jon

[David (plogue)]

The ones I've tried to open crash because I saved the project with the GUI open..

That is a very interesting bit of information!
As soon as you can reproduce sometime "each and everytime" using a particular series
of steps is of great bug tracking help here.

Not saying that its Aria's fault just yet, but still keeping an eye open on the reasons why :)

[Styxx]

For what its worth, there is speculation that SP2 and IE7 with security updates has caused many problems. Ever since my older unit had updated to SP2 and IE7, I've lost the use of firewire as well as other such as able to use system restore before December 2007.
Maybe nothing to do with your experiences but the frustration for me has been frustration to the max!
Sorry to interrupt.

[jjloving]

Well in the spirit of "If it could be broken, why not smash it just to be sure" I've been playing around with everything for the last couple of hours and I think I may have stumbled onto something...so here goes...

Start Sonar, select new project "normal" template.

Insert>Soft Synths>SteinwayVST_x86

Insert Synth Options pop up...and...
1st time: un-check Create First Synth Audio Output: crash and burn :mad:
2nd time: check Create First Synth Audio Output: Happy Steinway Playing! )(~

I've successfully repeated this a number of times, so it would seem that Aria has to create its own Audio tracks, and at least for me I can't insert it and assign it to any pre-existing tracks. (If that was in the manual I completely missed it...must have been distracted by the pretty pictures;)) I did the same with KP2 just to compare, and with KP2 it didn't matter if that box was ticked or not.

Also tried it with a variety of templates, including "Blank", with the same results.

No luck getting the other projects with it already in them to open though.

Don't know if that's an Aria thing, or something's still a little goofy inside my computer, but that's what I found.

Now it's lunch time. Piano destruction makes me hungry:D

Jon

[Nickie Fønshauge]

After you have started Sonar, open a project by SHIFT+"Open a recent project" or "Open a project" | SHIFT+"Open". You will then be given the option to load/not-load the projects synths.

[David (plogue)]

1st time: un-check Create First Synth Audio Output: crash and burn :mad:


Yep, i'm able to get a crash here under Sonar Pro 6. Seems that in this specific scenario Sonar
asks me to open the UI before fully initializing the engine (resume)

I need to add yet one more protection in Aria's VST wrapper.

Stay tuned for a test build.

BTW: The blue screen you have is most definitely the results of a driver that doesnt like Sonar crashing. Some USB MIDI Drivers that i know do that, if the application doesnt close normally, they dont get freed properly and die, or said another way : take everything with them.

[jjloving]

David I'mnot even going to pretend to know what that means...just going to nod my head and say "well of course that's what it is.":D At least it's not just me then! I was starting to think it was all in my head~|;)

I'll keep looking for what Sonar is taking down with it (shall we say destroying, ;)) but it's good to know that Aria isn't directly conflicting with the computer.

After you have started Sonar, open a project by SHIFT+"Open a recent project" or "Open a project" | SHIFT+"Open". You will then be given the option to load/not-load the projects synths.

This worked beautifully! Just to be safe I deleted the Steinway that I had already inserted and inserted a new one...and I was careful to close out of the GUI before saving and exiting:D.

What an adventure...all because I unchecked that stupid checkbox. I don't even know why or even remember doing it ~|.

You guys have come through once again! Thanks!

Jon