GPO cymbal rolls

[karvasika]

What is the best technique you have found to make fast cymbal rolls? It's maybe something I haven't discovered, but I only find a very long cymbal-roll that goes up and then down, but it's too long for fast crescendos. Then the other one that you can control with a modwheel sounds more like a piatta-roll than a cymbal.

How do you guys do it?

[schneb]

One technique that I have employed is to repeat the key on a cymbal hit rapidly, but really, it does not sound natural. Some of us have been suggesting a cymbal and percussion library that captures the nuances of techniques, such a slow crescendos, mallet rolls, etc.

[karvasika]

Thanks for the tip! In the last thing I actually used some cymbal from Addictive Drums -drumkit.. :) Not too classical...... ;)

Yea this would be cool, this kind of library. But also, instead of sampling everything, I think Aria engine could create a cymbal instrument, that could be completely playable, since it now has convolution capabilities. Just add some expression pedal and mod wheel and you can have any rolls you want. I'd love that...

[Raymond62]

Maybe a tip: do you own the JABB. There is a cymbal.

Raymond

[BenNichols]

What is the best technique you have found to make fast cymbal rolls? It's maybe something I haven't discovered, but I only find a very long cymbal-roll that goes up and then down, but it's too long for fast crescendos. Then the other one that you can control with a modwheel sounds more like a piatta-roll than a cymbal.

How do you guys do it?

Do you own GPO? I've never had an issue creating fast cymbal rolls with that, unless Im mis-understanding what it is you need...

[schneb]

Do you own GPO? I've never had an issue creating fast cymbal rolls with that, unless Im mis-understanding what it is you need...
There is no fast cymbal roll in GPO--just various cymbal hits.

It would be nice for Garritan to provide an upgrade kit for GPO that includes a few missing needs. No reason to invent a whole new library. I for one can think of quite a few missing percussion toys that should be added.

[Tom Hopkins]

Nothing is missing here - all the tools you need are there to create a huge variety of rolls. First of all, G#5 And A5 of both the Basic Orch Percussion and Cymbals are mod wheel controlled rolls. That means the user can construct a roll of any duration using mod wheel data - completely custom configurable. A5 adds a subtle release triggered hit not present on the G#5.

One can also use cc7 (when activated in the Options menu) to shape the crescendo roll on the A#5. The release of the roll needs to placed at the desired location and cc7 data drawn in to shape the duration of the roll prior to the release. The mod wheel option is usually easier. Both can be effective if done skillfully.

Tom

[Raymond62]

Thanks Tom.
Raymond

[Tom Hopkins]

I'll amend my last post by saying that if what you need is a selection of different mallets (and find that you can't achieve what you want through creative EQ) then you do indeed need to invest in a dedicated percussion library because such things go beyond the intended scope of GPO. Could more choices be added at some time in the future? Possibly, but that is undetermined. If you really need such things any time soon I would suggest buying a dedicated percussion library.

Tom

[germancomponist]

If someone wants to play and/or record his own Cymbal-Roll, faster or slower tempo, faster or slower fades in or out, feel free to download this instrument:


http://www.box.net/shared/mhfop8eg0g (http://www.box.net/shared/mhfop8eg0g)

After downloading copy and paste it into your Percussion folder at your GPO library. (For example: GPO/GPO-Library/Instruments/Percussion)

The sound and volume is controlled via velocity and it is a round robin programmed instrument, keyrange is from C5 to F#5, ....for an easyer playing. :)

Please note that you can detune this and all the other percussion instruments by adjusting the "tune-knob" at the Kontakt-Player or Sampler, for more creativity!%-

Hope you enjoy! ;)*()

Gunther

[karvasika]

One can also use cc7 (when activated in the Options menu) to shape the

I only have Kontakt Player, where can I activate this?

Also, I can't make (even with Altiverb with a large concert hall) make the modwheel-controlled cymbals sound like the A#5, it somehow always ends up sounding more raw and piatta-like (as if one was rubbing piattas together). Can someone suggest some good techniques for this?

[RustyCrook]

Here's an earlier thread which discusses how to implement a cymbal roll, albeit with G#5 (Cymbal roll on GPO Basic Percussion) and the mod wheel:

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57538&highlight=cymbal

I'm sensing however, this is not what you're after, . . . or is it?

Ken
(RustyCrook)

[karvasika]

Hi! Thanks for the reply! This is exactly what I'm after, however, I'm trying to make the symbal the symbal sound a bit more blended. I guess I can achieve this with some reverb.

I will also try to play with Tom's suggestion about volume-controlling the pre-recorded cymbal-roll. Does anyone know if it's possible to activate CC7 for that with Kontakt Player 2 or do I need the full version?

Thanks for good suggestions people! :)

[Tom Hopkins]

I only have Kontakt Player, where can I activate this?See this screenshot: http://www.box.net/shared/static/58fwo19us0.jpg

Once activated, apply cc7 data similar to this screenshot:
http://www.box.net/shared/static/uyrz3hbks8.jpg

One caveat: Under most circumstances the above technique will mean that you must use this instrument only for the cymbal roll. Remember, any changes in cc7 volume will affect all percussion within that instrument.

Also, I can't make (even with Altiverb with a large concert hall) make the modwheel-controlled cymbals sound like the A#5, it somehow always ends up sounding more raw and piatta-like (as if one was rubbing piattas together). Can someone suggest some good techniques for this?A#5 is a different cymbal than G#5 and A5 so they will never sound identical but you can adjust the aggressive nature of the G#5 and A5 to more closely resemble the A#5 by using two techniques. First, (and usually least effective) would be to limit your mod wheel (cc1) data to the lower half of values - make the maximum point of the crescendo about value 64. The mod wheel data affects both volume and brightness so this will limit the brightness of the roll. A more flexible way is to apply EQ to the channel with the cymbal roll. I would suggest a single band parametric EQ to start. Most of the energy that contributes to the sense of aggressive brightness is located in the 2 to 5khz area. Try a 3db cut centered around 3khz with a "Q" of about 2.0 to begin with. Adjust to taste. It's possible to use more than one EQ band and even automate parameters during the crescendo but that gets quite involved. Once you have things EQ'd to your liking then try adding your convolution reverb for room ambience appropriate to your project.

Tom

[karvasika]

Thanks Tom, I'll try this!!!

I just found out I got accepted to 2-year Masters program in Film Composition in Stockholm!!!!!! Yee! =)

[Tom Hopkins]

Congratulations!

Tom

[BenNichols]

Congratulations from me also! Im on a one year Masters in film composition at the mo...all i can say is that I hope yours is not as stressful as mine, but just as fun!

[karvasika]

Thanks, both of you! :)

Ben, I'll let u know how it turns out to be... :) This one's 2-year fulltime, I hope that doesn't translate twice as much stress... :S