To all those who pirate software: I UNDERSTAND!

[Craig Reeves]

I'm sick of this!

These companies (like AUDIO EASE, for example), make it extremely difficult for consumers to install their stuff because of all the "security" and "authrorization" they put us through before we can even install it!

I can't even re-install the software I paid 500 dollars for a few years because of all this PACE Interlock mumbo-jumbo and confusion. Lost registration codes you can only get ONCE, broken links to authorization sites, and the waiting on them to get their sh*t together makes me wanna just go download a keygen and just get it over with.

It's not very smart if you wanna keep people from pirating your stuff to make it HARDER on the honest customers...WAKE UP! Ain't nobody stealin Altiverb anyway cuz the software sucks anyway.....the impulses sound good, but the software is TRASH (that thing crashed on me numerous times).

[Craig Reeves]

WHoops, wrong forum...

[Craig Reeves]

...screw it.....KEYGEN TIME!

[Craig Reeves]

*sigh*

No keygen available!! Man, this is utter TRIPE! Software companies are PUNISHING US FOR BEING HONEST! GPO itself is Hell to authorize unless everything goes perfect (which is probably one of the reasons why Gary did away with Native Instruments, thank God). Now, I can't ever install Altiverb again because I don't have the response code anymore and they're not willing to give it to me! 500 dollars down the drain!!! Then they wonder why people steal from them! Because they're stealing from us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nikolas]

woah!

4 posts in the wrong forum! :D

I understand how you feel. And I can't really help. Maybe the company can help? If not I would suggest (don't kill me for this) to find stuff that are lightly prorected, or with people who understand (I'm sure that something like this would never happen to a Garritan product. You could e-maiil Mr. Gary himself and he would sort it out I imagine... (<-let's not put him through this, huh? :D))

sorry to hear about this, and good luck!

[Craig Reeves]

I don't feel sorry for half these companies one bit!

I have thrown away 500 bucks (that's actually alotta money to some folks, perhaps maybe not to sample library people since they can afford 10000 dollar libraries anyways, but...).

Never again will I ever be able to install Altiverb. Ever. Done deal. They've locked me out!

Soon, I won't be able to use GPO anymore because my serial number is "invalid" and NI is not willing to give me another one. I know for a fact that this was one of the reasons that Garritan wanted to run their own libraries by getting their own player.

If these companies get pirated from half the time it's their own fault. There ain't gonna be that many people pirating the Garritan Steinway...

Altiverb is overpriced, and EXTREMELY difficult to register (now impossible for me) reliably unless you JUST BOUGHT it and never have to re-install it....if I could go back in time I would have just pirated it...I don't owe anything to those theives over there...

[Sleutelbos]

I so agree. Garritan is actually one of those companies that's fairly easy, relatively, to register. Thank God no dongle or any of that nonsense. But yeah, it's pathetic I have to run a cracked version of Cubase because the anti-piracy coding makes the legal one run slower. In your case, just google 'altiverb torrent' and be done with it.

[Hannes_F]

In case you expect any help:

Could you eventually stop the over-exaggerated emotional stuff that doesn't help anybody? Instead of this better describe the cold and hard facts what actually happened, and do it in a scientific way. Stick to a list or a dotted table if it helps.

I am sure there is a solution, but only if you define the problem properly.

[PaulR]

Altiverb is overpriced, and EXTREMELY difficult to register (now impossible for me) reliably unless you JUST BOUGHT it and never have to re-install it....if I could go back in time I would have just pirated it...I don't owe anything to those theives over there...

No I don't think so.

I changed a system a few weeks ago and Altiverb 4 needed to be reinstalled on a Mac with Tiger (not even Leopard or indeed, Altiverb 6).

It took Audioease a day only to send me another registration number, They were extrememly good and a few emails later - all was good. They wanted me to upgrade to Altiverb 6 - and I will do so of course on this system one day - we have 6 on another system already.

Very good company and extremely friendly chaps from the flatlands!

[nikolas]

I so agree. Garritan is actually one of those companies that's fairly easy, relatively, to register. Thank God no dongle or any of that nonsense. But yeah, it's pathetic I have to run a cracked version of Cubase because the anti-piracy coding makes the legal one run slower. In your case, just google 'altiverb torrent' and be done with it.
Well my cubase version runs lovely on a 2.8 GHz single core. So...

Childrens talk I say! Stick to what Hannes told you and I'm sure help will be on the way, Craig!

[Ranger]

NI not my fav I sent an e-mail for support received ticket no reply (3 months) so for all these companies that make it hard for the customers with copy protection WAKE UP pirates can crack all. I own my software and limits are imposed on me and when need support nothing ,so this nonsense with on line activation, dongles etc.... provide the support you will get more paying clients

[carulli]

Right before I bought GPO I stated in this forum that the registration policies of NI almost made me get another product. ( glad it didnt )(~)

Registration that involves your email address? I change my email address fairly often. Got to be a better way to protect their intellectual property.

[Hannes_F]

If you happen to have registration issues with NI then forget the email ... call their registration support and everything works within minutes.
Again, I am waiting for the scientific problem description of the OP.

[Reegs]

An invoice or credit card bill to show proof of ownership would help, perhaps?

[carulli]

In some ways I think the best way to prevent piracy is to use online distribution for certain key files.

Valve does this for the popular game series " Half Life" . The procees must work as other games have gone to them for distribution. Games that could easily have been considered Valves competition in the past.
( ie Epic and the Unreal series is now distributed on Valve's Steam servers )

As I understand it piracy is much lower since all files are coded to an individual id. Bugfixes and updates are all handled through the same server without requiring any input from the end user.

Long codes with Som3 CapS and No's thrown in hasnt worked. Its time for a new process.

[Ranger]

yes Gary is on the right path Thanks!!!!!!!

[Garritan]

Of course, the new system Gary has in place beats the snot out of anything else I've seen. And it's such a pretty card, too:D
yes Gary is on the right path Thanks!!!!!!!
I so agree. Garritan is actually one of those companies that's fairly easy, relatively, to register. Thank God no dongle or any of that nonsense.
Thanks Guys,

I was wondering how people liked our new system.

Craig, I understand your frustration and that is why we did something about it (I would have shown you at TMEA if you were there ;) ).

Many, like Craig feel that copy protection schemes make it "HARDER on the honest customers" than they do to deter piracy. After being frustrated with copy-protection dongles and challenge/response systems ourselves, we decided to try something different.

Our registration system will involve entering your serial number in our registration site and receiving a Graphical License Card. The graphic card contains all your persoanl information. You drag and drop the card onto the player and that's it! You're authorized.

If there are others who have the Steinway, please let me know how you like this system (or if would you prefer the dongle ;) ) and how we can make a better experience for you.

Gary Garritan


----------------------------------------------



For those unfamiliar, here's how the Authorized Steinway Registration works:




Simply Drag and Drop your Personalized Graphic Card Key onto the ARIA Player and you are Authorized

http://www.garritan.com/Steinway/Authorization.jpg


A GRACEFUL REGISTRATION SYSTEM
Easy to Register
Easy to Save and Recover your License Information
Card Keys are Personalized
No Hassles
No Dongles
No Complicated Challenge/Response
You are allowed to use your products on multiple computersI hope this system will prove a welcome alternative to the CP methods currently on the market.

[rwayland]

Well, Gary, I don't have the Authorized Steinway, and won't until I replace my computer. But I like the idea. It seems simple and effective.

Today I received the Oxford-Duden Dictionary, with CD for pronunciation. I probably won't use the pronouncing guide (don't really need it) because, although I can copy the files to my hard drive, they won't work unless the cd is in the drive. This is slightly better than a dongle, but I don't like it. Your type of authorizing ought to be put to use for any situation where protection is required!

Richard

[RobertTewes]

I recently purchased the Garritan Steinway and found the new registration process to be very easy and effective. I appreciate the Dongle-less format. Thanks Gary!

[Nickie Fønshauge]

I hope this system will prove a welcome alternative to the CP methods currently on the market.
I am sure all legitimate users are going to love this system at first glance. It does look nice and easy seen from the users perspective. Alas, this is also the reason I think all the crack guys are going to love it ;) What prevents them from distributing the key file along with the software and samples? :confused: Lets face it: What is good for the crack guys is eventually bad for the legitimate users. Lost revenue due to theft can only be recovered from legitimate users. :(

[Tony Monaghan]

I haven't come across any software EVER that wasn't cracked, usually within days of a release. In my opinion there is no secure way to protect software and likely never will be. Copy protection is nothing more than a hurdle for the legitimate user.

[nikolas]

I actually think that dongle protected software is really hard to crack, if it is coded correctly. Cubase, for example, is asking for dongle every part of the way, so you don't have to crack the dongle, but the program and every place it asks the dongle, which are zillions. And by the time you do that the next version, with corrected bugs is out there. I do know that the people who carcked Cubase SX3 mentioned that it simply is not worth doing it again!

Software which are not cracked really (at least not in the Internet) are the heavy programs. Can't really see yet people downloading 138 GB of EW platinum, or 60 GB of Gary's steinway, or 750 VSL huge GBs, etc... It's simply too much.

Plus anyone who wants to have his music outside of his computer and on to any community (as this wonderful one), will HAVE to think twice! Being illegal and showing your stuff when the developers are around, is rather tricky... ;) So...

[ejr]

Piracy isn't the answer. But boycotting companies that employ draconian copy protections schemes is. Yes, it means you limit yourself to applications that are sensibly authorized. But if you can't use others that you legally paid for, what's the difference?

GPO and every library that relies on Kontakt or the Kontakt player are held hostage to NI's authorization process -- which, I find, fails more often than not, even when the user does everything correctly. It's the sloppy, incompetent job of programming that in the end infurates more honest users than it discourages pirates. You have to wonder about how buggy their products are when registration is this buggy. And it reflects very poorly (and unfairly) on third party library publishers who made the mistake of relying on NI's file format/player/authorization.

Dongels can be even worse. I've seen Windows go completely crazy with everything you plug into a USB port if one of them contains the dongel. I've had to re-install Windows, restore CMOS settings, and do some incredibly bizzare things to computers to get them to work with a dongel -- and then have them fail anyway later on for no apparent reason. I'll never go through this again with ANY software, regardless of its other claims or merits.

I am a developer myself and I know that this kind of nonsense is completely unnecessary to prevent unreasonable amounts of piracy -- and I have been doing this long enough to know that there is no way to prevent all of it. The most sensible approach I have seen so far is the description on the Wallander website (though I haven't purchased any of their products yet, so I don't have any first hand experience with it). Garritan is promising better authorization with instruments based on its ARIA technology -- and just the fact that they are not relying on NI's buggy sampling is encouraging.

But, as someone who has invested a substantial amount of money in software that is dependent on Kontakt or the Kontact player, I simply cannot afford to throw all this stuff away and rebuild a sample library that has taken me years to put together. NI needs to fix its registration/authorization system so that it works correctly EVERY TIME, with all existing products, and does not rely on their buggy code and flaky website to function perfectly (because it never does). And they need to fix all the bugs in Kontakt 2 before I will ever buy Kontakt 3 or another NI product.

I usually don't like to slam developers like this, but they really are one of the worst that I have ever seen and lots of third party developers who use the NI format suffer because of NI's unwillingness or inability to address these problems -- despite the fact that they have been repeatedly and emphatically brought to their attention. Piracy, no. But a good, old fashion, world wide boycott of their products would do wonders IMHO.

[nikolas]

ejr:

Too bad that composers have never been organised and there is no organisation to take what they need when they need (look at the recent strike of writers. why musicians can't do that? :()

[Nickie Fønshauge]

NI needs to fix its registration/authorization system so that it works correctly EVERY TIME, with all existing products, and does not rely on their buggy code and flaky website to function perfectly (because it never does).

I beg to differ. I have two KP1 libraries, three KP2 libraries, Kontakt 2, Komplete 5 and Kore 2 installed and authorized and I only experienced a minor problem once during the transition from the old registration system to the present one. And I am absolutely certain, that the large majority of NI's thousands of users have had the same problem free authorization experience - otherwise the NI forum would be swamped with angry complaints, which it ain't. So to say, that it NEVER functions, is a gross distortion of reality.

[ejr]

It has never functioned properly for me. It hangs 95% of the way through the process, regardless of the system it is installed on, even on clean machine with nothing else but Sonar and Kontakt 2.

It says an update for the registration software is needed, but once installed, it fails to recognize it. Their server is frequently down. No one responds to tech support emails. It keeps asking me to download "updates" that I have all ready downloaded and installed. It can't seem to keep track of them accurately. Although I finally did get everything installed and working, it was such an ordeal, that I did not upgrade to Kontact 3, or even risk updating my host application (Sonar) for fear of having to endure another round of authorization madness. I used to upgrade my computer every year, too -- but I am keeping the one I now use until I have no other choice.

There seem to be enough users experiencing similar problems with the NI installation and authorization process that complaints regularly appear in this forum and NI has attempted to address these problems at least twice, to my knowledge, but as far as I can tell they have not succeeded.

And I share the impression of other users regarding NI's lack of respect for its customers. I don't like spending hundreds of dollars for products, giving them repeat business and being treated like a thief. Especially when their competitors seem to have found workable ways to protect their applications without causing such difficulties and hard feelings.

I could go on and on. But, frankly, I'm just tired of it. Other developers seem to be hearing our complaints, if NI isn't. All I am saying is that those of us who are fed up with NI should hold off on buying products that require NI technology and authorization. There seem to be more and more alternatives cropping up every day. Occassionally, I still have to buy a sample library that requires Kontakt, but I am saving most of my money for virtual instruments based on other software samplers -- or, better yet, are self contained (like Real Guitar). Did I mention that I love Real Guitar? No, it's not the best sampled guitar out there. But it's beautifully self contained. No trouble installing it, getting it to work, etc. That's they way all of this software should be. If a little company like this can pull it off, I don't see why it's such a problem for the bigger operations.

[nikolas]

All I am saying is that those of us who are fed up with NI should hold off on buying products that require NI technology and authorization. There seem to be more and more of them every day.
I somehow read this as "there seem to be more and more every day (products that use NI :D)" in which case I was ready to reply that this is exactly the problem. Currently 90% of what I use is NI stuff, even from other companies. the strad, EW stuff, etc. I can't shut down my studio, can I?

And for the record I've never had any issue with NI (which is 3-4 products). And I've reinstalled windows on my computer once, formated once, etc.

[rolifer]

One day I opened Sibelius and got a alert saying Libraries can not be found. I opened Sonar and it also couldn't find GPO.

I reloaded everything to no avail. I called Gary's help line and the said that I had to talk to NI. After finally getting NI on the phone, the tech guy proceeded to treat me like an idiot and called me every word in the book while not saying any of the words. I wanted to reach thru the line and throttle this fool.

After following all of the steps, it finally worked. I asked what the problem was and he said operator error. So, even though everything worked fine for 3 months, he said that I did something wrong.

The next day, I had the exact same problem. This time I just went into the KP2 player and showed it where all the files were. Problem solved.

I spent hours and hours on the phone with NI and they never once thought of this easy fix, but had a ton of fun blaming me for doing something wrong.

I made Gary aware of how the idiots there at NI treated me, but figured that since he was already changing engines, he knew what was happening there with NI.

I hate NI with a passion. I have had to re authorize my products numerous times and have had to jump thru hoops everytime.

I know that this is not exactly the same as this thread is about, but it fits in with how these companies treat us and see us. Not as loyal cutomers, but as sources of cash.

I notice that a number of companies are now getting away from NI and I couldn't be happier.

Ron

[rfdillon]

Gary, I love the new Steinway, but while installing it, I had a DVD burner die on me, and I uninstalled it and installed it again. I'm not sure whether or not I have taken up two or one license slot, and I'd kind of like to know how to tell, as I only have it installed on one PC, under one OS, so it should only take up one license slot.
Also, I know this is very minor, but I kind of miss the metronome (the metronome is our friend):p from the Kontakt 2 player. Are there any plans in the future to integrate one into Aria?

[marce]

...
Also, I know this is very minor, but I kind of miss the metronome (the metronome is our friend):p from the Kontakt 2 player. Are there any plans in the future to integrate one into Aria?

+1 vote here! i also use that offenly

[clonewar]

... Cubase, for example, is asking for dongle every part of the way, so you don't have to crack the dongle, but the program and every place it asks the dongle, which are zillions...

Steinberg has probably developed the tightest copy protection out there (outside of dedicated hardware like UAD), but at what cost to their software, and ultimately the end user? Cubase/Nuendo doesn't just check to see if the dongle is there, it actually places some program code on the dongle which is called while the program is running. There's really no way to quantify how this affects the program's performance (outside of Steinberg writing a non-dongle version of Cubase/Nuendo to test), but could it have something to do with the multi-core x-scaling bug that was supposed to be fixed in Nuendo 4, then in the first update, but is still unresolved? Who knows..

I think the best way for developers to combat piracy is to give the customers good value for their money, and make the software painless to use (including registration). It seems to be working well for Gary!

[Raymond62]

Another sound. At first I had some troubles getting registration to work, but since KP2 no trouble at all. Everytime I re-install the whole lot, I just go to the NI service center and within one minute everything is done(GPO, JABB, Strad).

I also have a Steinberg dongle for the Grand2. No problem at all. It is plugged all the time, and when at re-installation, just install that little license-driver and in no time you are up and running again.

So, this is a satisfied user of both worlds. Not happy with it, that is another story, but this works for me.

There is only one thing I hate and that is: that every demo program (Finale, Sonar - if any - , Sibelius, Overture, Altiverb, Cubase-series, etc.) have so many limitations that is hardly workable and one never gets a good idea of what is going on and possible. Talking about bad programming: these demo's are. And certainly they aren't some kind of advertisement to buy the stuff.

Raymond

[nikolas]

I think the best way for developers to combat piracy is to give the customers good value for their money, and make the software painless to use (including registration). It seems to be working well for Gary!I do agree wholeheartily to this!

:)

[Ranger]

I've seen cracked cubase sx so I imagine it exists for cubase 4. Lets face it. they can crack all. a coder wrote the protection, it takes another to crack. If you use pirate software . down the road all the great software programmers will move on to other projects

[RickD]

Gary,

I really appreciate the way you do business. Some day when I'm rich I'm going to get that Steinway, I think it's a beautiful instrument. Honestly, hopefully it will be sooner than later.

[RickD]

Craig Reeves,
I just upgraded my altiverb 5 to 6 and transferred my license to my iLok so I could use the software on either my laptop or desktop cpu. I had Audio Ease involved throughout the entire process. It took me 3 days plus having to wait over the weekend to get everything working right, but Aram at Audio Ease was right there everyday to help me get it done right. The bottom line is you need to correspond with them with a cool attitude, just be honest and explain to the best of your ability what happened and go from there. I think he'll take care of it. Let us know how it goes.

[Reegs]

Just so everyone knows, I found a Pirated Steinway the other day.




It had three wooden legs and an eyepatch. :n:

[Hannes_F]

I see that the OP still has not responded with a proper description of his actual problem.

So it was all about indifferent venting, making a little bad mood and appeal for illegality?

What a waste of our time, sigh.

[Ranger]

Hannes true what you say, but if we dont vent ,then our message wont get through. You know the old saying the "squeeky wheel gets the grease"

[Little Red King]

...

I am a developer myself and I know that this kind of nonsense is completely unnecessary to prevent unreasonable amounts of piracy -- and I have been doing this long enough to know that there is no way to prevent all of it. The most sensible approach I have seen so far is the description on the Wallander website (though I haven't purchased any of their products yet, so I don't have any first hand experience with it).

...



I have products from NI (Garritan, Sample Modeling, NI), Steinberg and Wallander (plus countless others) and I must say that the Wallander copy protection is extremely light on the consumer and way ahead of the others. I basically do not know that it is there. I hope that it is providing adequate protection for the developer. I would encourage all companies to use Wallander's copy protection scheme.

[Garritan]

Just so everyone knows, I found a Pirated Steinway the other day.

It had three wooden legs and an eyepatch. :n:

Argghhahahaha )(~:D :D


http://www.garritan.com/pictures/pirateday.gif

[Garritan]

kind of miss the metronome (the metronome is our friend):p from the Kontakt 2 player. Are there any plans in the future to integrate one into Aria? A metronome is on our wish list for ARIA. :)

Gary

[rfdillon]

A metronome is on our wish list for ARIA. :)

Gary

Thanks Gary!

[Garritan]

I kind of miss the metronome (the metronome is our friend):p from the Kontakt 2 player. Are there any plans in the future to integrate one into Aria?

Would something like this do?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1TMZASCR-I&eurl=http://www.neatorama.com/2008/05/01/synchronization/

[henrymorris]

The authorization system for the Steinway is great, Gary. So simple.

[Kinvint]

I would have to agree with and support Hannes' suggestion and comments. Especially since so many people have responded with ideas and advice. It would be nice if the OP could be more specific or at least give us an update on his problem. Was it solved? Did he receive a refund? Was he able to unregister and re-register? At least some kind of response would be nice, rather than 4 posts of flaming. I understand that forums are often a place for venting frustration but one can hardly expect sympathy without a more thorough, articulate description of the problem.

Is Craig aware of the unregister function for the NI-driven products? Once that is done, they can be re-registered on a new machine. But surely, he is aware of this, right?

Well, there's my 'two cents/pfennigs/pennies worth', after reading the thread :)

[Nigel W]

I see that the OP still has not responded with a proper description of his actual problem.

So it was all about indifferent venting, making a little bad mood and appeal for illegality?

What a waste of our time, sigh.

yes, I agree Hannes; rather annoying and incourteous to forum members- though probably the poster lost interest after letting off some steam!

I know Audioease are less generous on licensing than many other companies, but I have found them generally reasonable if approached in a polite and professional manner. It would be useful and interesting to hear the whole story.

I recently worked for a while with a musician who I assumed to be a pro. I couldn't believe the number of cracked products he had on his system! And this was a guy who is making money by using these tools others have worked hard to develop. That leaves a bad taste, I have to say.

He showed me how much stuff you can find illegally available on the internet. Shocking actually, and it makes me sympathize with developers who operate a rigid licensing policy. I have to say, though, that Spectrasonics, Garritan & co, have a better approach which is also more inclined to create customer loyalty.

By contrast- another musician who wants to work with me also came by. He confessed to having a bunch of cracked software, and I told him my point of view. The next day he went out and bought legit. versions. Now that's a guy I will continue to work with.

best

Nigel