Cubase Studio 4 HELP needed......

[Eugene]

:(I have upgraded from my old (obsolete) Cubasis VST 4 to Cubase Studio 4. I find I am at the start of a learning curve, back to square 1 as it were, as everything seems to be done differently! I can't use my old .all files. Also when I import a midi file I am having trouble assigning the GPO instruments to the various midi tracks. Can anyone help here - I need step-by-step instructions, as my skill and knowhow is limited. Or is there a tutorial dealing with these issues for GPO/Cubase Studio 4? I would be grateful for any help.....
Many thanks
Eugene

[Little Red King]

I don't have GPO, but I do have JABB and I made the switch from Cubasis VST4 to Cubase SX3 about 2 years ago. I've never used Cubase 4 (and its various relatives like the Studio version) but from what I've seen in tutorials it seems to still share a lot with SX3. I can open .all files in SX3, but it is not done through the "File / Open" menu item, it is done through the "File / Import" item. From there you can import a "Cubase song" which is a .all file. On my system, this works pretty smoothly and I was able to bring my Cubasis VST4 projects into SX3 without too much pain. Does C4 Studio have this import functionality?

One thing that took me some time when I made the change over from VST4 to SX3 was the fact that Cubasis VST4 pretty much automatically connected all the program's logical inputs and outputs to the computer's physical inputs and outputs. Once VST4 was installed, it was pretty much ready to make sounds. SX3 is not automatic and will not make sounds until the user sets up the VST connections. In SX3 (and maybe Cubase Studio 4 too?) this has to be done manually in the "Devices / VST Connections" menu. This menu item is quite powerful and versatile, but like all powerful, versatile things, it takes a moment to learn how to use it right. Until you get your VST connections set-up, you can't really hear anything in SX3 regardless of whether it is GPO or any other virtual instrument or audio file. Maybe part of your issues come from that? Have you checked your VST Connections setting (assuming that it is the same as in SX3)?

Assigning midi instruments (like JABB or GPO) in SX3 is very similar to how it was done in Cubasis VST4: load the virtual instrument in the virtual instrument management window, create a midi track and assign the output of that midi track to the virtual instrument remembering to also have the midi channel on the track in agreement with the midi channel on the virtual instrument. After that, in SX3, one is ready to go. Unfortunately, it sounds like this might have changed in C4, since you are having trouble with it.

If you like, I can post some screen shots from SX3. I know somethings have changed from SX3 to C4 but I've found that most of the C4 tutorials on the web translate very well to SX3 so let me know if you think that might be useful. Sorry that I can't be more helpful as I don't have C4, but if some of what I mentioned above sounds right, then maybe I will be able to help a little bit.

[buckshead]

I ve got JABB and Cubase 4. Ill get back to you later if you're still stuck, its not actually much different from before.

[buckshead]

First you can not open .all files in Cubase 4. If you've got VST then you will have to save them as .mid files and load them that way. Or if you can find a version of Cubase SX3 then this will load them and convert them to .cpr files which you can then load in 4. This is a pain but there is no work around that I know of.

You didn't explain the problem with midi files. If they're your own files you will know which track is which, if they're import you will need to find out what sound is meant to be on each track. If you load the file and set the tracks to GM then the expected sound will play on that track. You can then set the sounds in GPO.

I understand that JABB and GPO are pretty much the same. Start a new project, import the midi file. You should have track for each sound being played. Now start GPO - go to VST instruments F11 - load an instance of GPO - latest revision using Kontakt player.

Go to first midi track, in the inspector, set the playback to Kontakt and check the channel number, probably 1 but the midi import may have been set differently.

Click on the edit instrument button ( looks like a little cage ) this opens the
GPO again. Load the sound required for the first track, make sure that the sound is set to the right output and track (midi channel and output shown on left of main box).

If you now start playback this first track will should play.

Now you must repeat this for all the other tracks. Pick the sound, fit it to the track. Of course if you have a multi then you can load this however I dont think GPO sets the tracks in GM order so you have to set the tracks manually. Once saved as a .cpr file, the tracks in GPO will reload properly next time around.

Hope this helps,

[Eugene]

Thanks Little Red King and Buckshead for coming back so quickly with help. First of all I can't import .all files, so I will have to import midi and remix etc., but I can live with that, as I still have the old Cubasis VST4 installed. In studio 4 I have imported a midi file containing 4 tracks, and have loaded 4 GPO instruments into Kontakt player in slots 1 - 4 , and selected Personal Orchestra for "output routing" and "all midi instruments" for "input routing" assigning 1,2,3 and 4 to the midi tracks. I can hear the GPO instruments but all are centred in mono sound. If I select 1/2. 3/4. 5/6 and 7/8 in Kontakt to send the sounds to different channels in the mixer, I only can hear the first instrument, although all look like they are playing, and the leds flash for all. If instead they are all set to 1/2 I can hear them all in mono. I am probably doing something silly, but I had no problem with the simpler VST4 - the more complicated Studio 4 has more options, and makes it easier for me to go wrong!

[buckshead]

If you have selected "Personal Orchestra" in output routing I assume that you have not upgraded to Kontakt Player2 as this will now select as such in output routing. for this upgrade best check the Garritan site - its free. It means reregistering with NI but I think its worthwhile. See previous posts on the forum.

I put all my sounds through just the first output, there seems no point in mixing in Kontakt when the Cubase mixer follows it but thats you're option. There are so many routes it is hard to choose between them.

I've been playing around with the controls trying to see where your problem might be. Open the mixer F3 above the slider is a box "Stereo In " above "Stereo Out". OR does it state "left" or "right" in this box. That could be the problem, the Cubase mixer is running on mono.

[Eugene]

If you have selected "Personal Orchestra" in output routing I assume that you have not upgraded to Kontakt Player2 as this will now select as such in output routing. for this upgrade best check the Garritan site - its free. It means reregistering with NI but I think its worthwhile. See previous posts on the forum.
Hello Buckshead, thanks for your reply. I am running the original Kontakt player that came with GPO a few years ago. When in the same project I run JABB, which has a different and more recent Kontakt player, I get stereo straight away. So it looks like the old Kontakt player , which gave stereo with Cubasis VST 4, only gives mono with Cubase Studio 4! In which case I suppose I need to upgrade to Kontakt 2; what I am wondering will this cause me more problems, i.e. are all the bugs fixed? Also any idea if the Kontakt 2 upgrade is still available?

[buckshead]

Hi Eugene,

try the following http://www.garritan.com/Kontakt2PlayerUpdate.html

It gives you the update to Kontakt2Player. This is a modified version of Kontakt that runs the Garritan libraries. Read the manual because there are some changes but nothing difficult. I find it a lot better than the original player and I had no trouble logging in to NI and getting it all working in about 20 min (including the downloads etc)

As its Sunday there's chat tonight and you could try asking the guys present their opinions. It starts about 8 pm my local time thats British Summer time.

[Eugene]

Hi Buckshead. Thanls for link. I downloaded and installed Kontakt 2. Selecting Personal Orchestra VST gives me the old Kontakt player, so I select instead "Kontakt 2" which is listed, and load the instruments from there. Right? I have 2 questions - how do I unload an instrument? Also how do I get sound? The leds are flashing , so there is something happening, but there is some setup step I missed, because no sound emerges! These are teething troubles, sorry to be such a nuisance, but if you can help I will be grateful
Eugene

[buckshead]

Its easy to un load an instrument from KontaktPlayer2, top X box in the top corner.

I'm unsure why you've got no sound. You've set the output routing to KontaktPlayer 2. Have you set the channel numbers to the corresponding numbers on the instruments, Does the midi channel output say A then the number - there are four different ports that might show, they don't all work on all sound cards, Are you playing usable notes, not too high or low?

I think there must be something simple that is missing but Im not sure what

[Little Red King]

Eugene, in addition to Buckshead's questions, it might help to know if can you get any sound out of Cubase? Is this only GPO that is not giving you sound or are other virtual instruments or regular audio also not making a sound? For example, if you create an audio track and put any .wav file that you have handy on the track, can you hear that? Or if you load another virtual instrument (not Kontakt Player based), can you make music with it?

[buckshead]

Do you remember that the volume is controlled by the setting of your mod wheel? If this is zero you wont hear anything

[Eugene]

Buckshead and Little Red King - again thanks for the continued support. I am going through 2 learning curves simultaneously - Cubasis Stidio 4 and Kontakt 2. Both pieces of software seem to be vastly more powerful than the older ones. I managed to get sounds from GPO instruments using Kontakt 2 - I'm not sure how, but starting a new project seemed to solve the issue. I still have a lot to learn. I was unable to alter the volume using the sliders in the mixer - not sure why. Again probably something very basic caused that. I will persevere until I have basic operations mastered. There are a few more things I have to figure out yet:
(1) How to do the equivalent of editing the mastertrack (time sig. and tempo) which was a feature of Cubasis VST 4.
(2) How to add reverb to tracks.
As always, hints appreciated!
Eugene

[buckshead]

1) the tempo and time signature can be set on the transport bar.
2) OR open PROJECT, then TEMPO TRACK. set the tempo here if a variable tempo is required, pull the horizontal line up and down, insert points to change the values, start point value in box at top as is time signature.
3) to add reverb you can either insert an effect or send to an effect, just as in a real mixer. F3 to open mixer, lower case e on the relevant track opens the edit panel. Insert the reverb (or other effect) from the drop down list (Inserts on left, sends on right). Once again the lower case e (for edit) above the effect opens the effect itself for editing. If you use send, then you can use a special FX track. here you place your effect as before but you can "SEND" to this track, all tracks sent to the FX track then pass thru the same effects.

Its a bit complicated because it is very versatile, you probably need to read this up in the big manual. Also all of the above can be done in the inspector.

It is different to VST but not a lot, most things you had before are there just updated

Was that you with the Ragtime piece, it was good

[Eugene]

Was that you with the Ragtime piece, it was good
yes, I updated it when I got the new Garritan Authorized Steinway. Glad you liked it.
I will check out the directions you gave on the various points. Regards
Eugene

[Little Red King]

Buckshead pretty much said everything there is to say, so hopefully you are going to be on your way.

One thing to remember is that the convolution reverb in the KP2 player is buggy when KP2 is used as a VST instrument. There are other threads on the forum explaining the work around. Given that you have your hands full with learning KP2 basics and Cubase 4 basics, it might be wise to not use the convolution reverb in KP2 until you feel solid with the rest of the functionality. The regular KP2 reverb (as well as the other KP2 effects) work fine. It is only the convolution that has this unfixed quirk.

[Eugene]

Buckshead pretty much said everything there is to say, so hopefully you are going to be on your way.

The regular KP2 reverb (as well as the other KP2 effects) work fine. It is only the convolution that has this unfixed quirk.
I am gradually getting to grips with basic tasks, i.e. learning how to do the things I took for granted in Cubasis VST 4! The one thing I am having a problem with is the volume sliders in the mixer. These work fine with Midi and wav files, but I haven't found out how to get them to work with K2 GPO instruments - obviously there is a link to be made, but I haven't discovered how so far.
re the k2 reverb, I haven't got around to this yet - but hope to soon. The feedback that both yourself and Buckshead gave has been a real help, many thanks. I will play around with it some more to get to know the basics I require to start a real project.

[buckshead]

Mixer for KontaktPlayer2 in Cubase
Start a new project empty.
Add a midi track channel 1
Open KontaktPlayer2 in DEVICES
add a sound for channel 1
Back to midi channel, output routing, make this KontaktPlayer2
Open Key editor then place a few notes on piano roll, set loop
Close key editor
play loop
You should hear the notes played by you instrument
open mixer F3
You should see four sliders, input, Midi, then the mixer for Kontakt named something like KT.BASS, and main output
The third slider is the volume from the player, if more outputs are used in Kontakt then more sliders appear.

Once you've got it working you can miss out most of the above.

There is a new type of track in Cubase4 named an instrument track. here the midi and instrument data are combined. I don't use this yet I'll have to recommend that you RTFM

[Eugene]

Thanks for that information. Buckshead.

[Eugene]

Mixer for KontaktPlayer2 in Cubase
Start a new project empty.
Add a midi track channel 1
Open KontaktPlayer2 in DEVICES
add a sound for channel 1
Back to midi channel, output routing, make this KontaktPlayer2
Open Key editor then place a few notes on piano roll, set loop
Close key editor
play loop
You should hear the notes played by you instrument
open mixer F3
You should see four sliders, input, Midi, then the mixer for Kontakt named something like KT.BASS, and main output
The third slider is the volume from the player, if more outputs are used in Kontakt then more sliders appear.


Hello Buckshead and little Red King, I am making progress but still have problem with volume controls. :confused:
If I open Steinway Virtual Piano vst I can control volume - no problem.
When I use the old JABB Kontakt VST, I can control the levels for each of the 8 instruments - no problem.
However when I open Kontakt 2 and select a few GPO instruments, the volume sliders for each instrument do not alter the volume. The master slider works ok, as does the Kontact main slider, but I cannot individually alter the level for any instrument. I'm obviously missing something basic, but can't figure out what it is! I haven't found anything in the the Manual or tutorials that deal with this.
Any ideas?

[Little Red King]

Hi Eugene,

It's tough to say what might be going wrong, so I've made a few screen shots that will show you how things are set up in my JABB/KP2/SX3 system.

Here is what my KP2 vst looks like with a loaded JABB instrument:
http://luridcactus.com/pix/KP2_01.jpg

I've set up my KP2 mixer so that it has 8 stereo channels, but that does not make any difference in the concept compared to the default mixer that KP2 opens with. The important thing is to have the output on the instrument selected to an active channel in the mixer. From the KP2 player you should be able to change the volume with either the volume slider on the instrument or the volume slider on the mixer channel.

Here is what my Cubase SX3 project screen looks like (I think that Cubase Studio 4 should be similar):
http://luridcactus.com/pix/Cubase_01.jpg

You need to make sure that the midi output of the midi track is set to the KP2 player. Also, you need to make sure that the midi channel of the Cubase track agrees with the midi channel that the KP2 instrument is talking to.

Here is what a slice of my Cubase mixer looks like:
http://luridcactus.com/pix/Cubase_02.jpg

These Cubase mixer channels were automatically created when I first instantiated the KP2 plugin. Originally the names lined up with the names on the KP2 mixer, but I changed the first one to "Bass vst". Evidently, this mixer will also affect the volume.

Having everything set up like this allows me to hear the midi track getting routed through the KP2 instrument and then outputted as audio. All three volume sliders (2 on the KP2 vst and one in Cubase) will change the volume of the virtual instrument.

Does this help at all?

[buckshead]

Basically the screenshots shown for SX3 are the same as those for Cubase 4, only minor differences.

EDIT: Of course you can also use the automation graphs to alter the volume. These appear as drop downs below each midi and audio track and the main KP2 one as the bottom track of the main screen

[Kinvint]

Hi Eugene,

With regard to your volume slider problems:

make sure you have assigned seperate stereo channels to each virtual instrument within KP2 (1-2, 3-4, 5-6 etc. You will see them on the first screen shot which LIttle Red King posted) otherwise one slider will act like a master slider. Also, make sure your mixer is set to show VST tracks: these sliders are what will allow control over each instrument. I hadn't had chance to read the whole thread before I posted so I apologise if this info has not helped or was already mentioned.

Good luck!

[Eugene]

Hi Eugene,
I hadn't had chance to read the whole thread before I posted so I apologise if this info has not helped or was already mentioned.
Good luck!

Thanks Kinvint for your reply. I have just generated a test project in Cubase Studio 4 as follows:
1 Open New Project, select "empty"
2 Import midi file with two tracks
3 Open Kontakt 2, and load 2 GPO instruments "Violin 1" and "Cello"
4 Assign the 2 midi tracks to the Kontakt2 player, to channels 1 and 2 respectively
When I play I can hear the GPO instruments playing. The main screen, the mixer and the Kontakt player look as follows:
http://www.box.net/shared/zq1nkzb448 (http://www.box.net/shared/zq1nkzb448)
http://www.box.net/shared/5etkqkc088 (http://www.box.net/shared/5etkqkc088)
http://www.box.net/shared/9tm2zvikoo (http://www.box.net/shared/9tm2zvikoo)
The "KT. ST" and the "Master" sliders control the overall volume level, but the other 2 sliders (VIOLIN and CELLO) have no effect on the volume - I assume these are midi sliders and don't affect VST instruments.
I seem to be misssing some sliders - not sure why this is or how to get them. The JABB Kontakt player (the old one) works perfectly, it's just the new K2 player that is causing me some grief!
Again any suggestions are welcome.

[sunbird]

Hi Eugene,

Here's a screen shot of the mixer. I marked with rounds the channel types that you can show/hide. One is for the MIDI channels and the other is for the VST instrument channels.

http://yudit.sunbird.googlepages.com/foreugene.jpg

Hope this helps... :)

Yudit

[Eugene]

Hi Eugene,

Here's a screen shot of the mixer. I marked with rounds the channel types that you can show/hide. One is for the MIDI channels and the other is for the VST instrument channels.



Hope this helps... :)

Yudit
Thanks Yudit,
but my mixer looks different. What version of Cubase have you?
Eugene

[Little Red King]

Hi Eugene,

Thanks for those screen shots. I now understand your question. The VIOLIN and CELLO mixer channels that you have on mixer.jpg are, as you mention, midi channels and not audio channels. The velocity slider is not a volume control in the traditional sense as this is a midi channel and not audio. To be honest, I never use the velocity slider on the midi channels as the velocity data is coming from the midi parts. I just played around with my midi sliders and basically I don't see that they do anything. So I'd say that the fact that these are not doing anything is normal (whatever normal means :) ).

Now, if you want to be able to mix your KP2 instruments separately (which I am guessing is your goal when you were changing the VIOLIN and CELLO sliders) then you have two choices that I am aware of.

1) Keep the KP2 mixer set like it is in KP2.jpg (with all instruments going out to one channel in the KP2 mixer (ie the channel labeled st.1) and set the balance between instruments by adjusting the instrument KP2 volume (as labeled in my first jpg link).

2) Create more outputs in the KP2 player. See DPDAN's tutorial on this: http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showpost.php?p=553313&postcount=104 Each output on the KP2 player will open up an audio mixer channel on the Cubase mixer. Set each KP2 instrument to output to a separate channel on the KP2 mixer. These KP2 mixer outs will go to the corresponding Cubase mixer channels and then you can mix individual instrument volumes there.

I certainly agree with you that the KP1 mixer set-up was much easier to use. The KP2 set-up is more powerful, but unfortunately that also makes the learning curve that much more difficult and the documentation on the KP2 is pretty brief in regards to the mixer. Keep hammering away at it and keep asking questions and I'm sure you'll get more comfortable with KP2.

[Eugene]

Problem solved! Having gone through mixer hell I have at last got my sliders to work in Cubase Studio 4. I have to thank the marvellous help I got from forum members who shared their experience - Little Red King, Buckshead, and Kinvint take a bow! - all of which got me started on the new learning curve. Dpdan's tutorial on setting up the mixer outputs got me through the first part - apparently Studio 4 assumes users will only use 1 stereo output pair, and this is the default setting. Having set up the mixer outputs I was still only getting sound through output 1-2, all others were silent. The solution here was to enable Kontakt 2 to "activate all outputs". K2 player's default setting is for one output pair only.
Anyway I have my mixer customised the way I need it so now I can get back to producing something!
Cubase Studio 4 and Kontakt 2 are undoubtedly major advances over the older software I used, but need more setting up.

[Little Red King]

Hi Eugene,

I am happy to hear that your perseverance has paid off. )(~

I remember when I was getting started with KP2 and the mixer was a real challenge and not very well documented. DPDAN's tutorial helped me a lot but as you have seen there are still holes and they are not easy to fill since they could be different for different hosts. Now you can start making some music and that will help to push you along the learning curve. Good luck and don't hesitate to ask when you meet the next challenge. Even if we can't help you, sometimes the moral support is enough to keep you hammering at the problem.

Happy sequencing! :)

[Eugene]

Hi Eugene,

Even if we can't help you, sometimes the moral support is enough to keep you hammering at the problem.
Little Red King - How right you are! We'd be lost without the forum and the web - thanks to which we can fell less isolated!
No doubt more obstacles will appear, but one at a time!
Thanks again
Eugene

[buckshead]

The reason why the midi sliders dont appear to work is that garritan instruments, GPO JABB etc use different CC 's to general midi. The slider in the midi track is basically CC7. Garritan doesnt use this control but uses CC1 for volume (er doesn't it?)

[Kinvint]

Glad to hear you got everything working the way you wanted to, Eugene. I know the feeling of transitioning or upgrading software and having to learn how things seems different at first. I am currently having some issues with Cubase 4 which were simple in my previous version of Cubase. I am trying to decide whether the upgrade has been worth it for the extra features.

Anyway, keep us posted if any more problems arise. Us Cubase users need to stick together! Heh :D

[andywilson]

I ve got JABB and Cubase 4.

I wonder if you're still around Buckshead? I'm struggling to apply articulation, pitch bend etc to recorded JABB tracks. Moving the pitch and mod wheels on the keyboard doesn't work. (And I don't really understand how to use CCs with JABB generally.) The manual doesn't help and I can't find anything online. Can anyone help please?