Classic Accordions and Bosendorfer, TANGO!

[Bardstown Audio]

Here is a new demo of the \"Classic Accordions\" and the \"Bosendorfer Imperial\" featuring a Tango!
http://www.bardstownaudio.com/mp3/Tango.mp3 (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com/mp3/Tango.mp3\")

Kip
Bardstown Audio
www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

[midphase]

The piano sounds good but there\'s something wrong with the Accordion. The attack is too sharp and the notes sound too repetitive.

As a big fan of Piazzolla\'s work, this accordion would never fool me.

Good piano though!

[Maarten Spruijt]

Well what I hear is just sustained accordion keys sampled. I don\'t mean necc. this demo or library, but sampled accordion in general.

You miss the breathing of the accordion. The pulling and stretching comes with it\'s own accordion-idiomatic expression curves, attack & note switches.

Not sure if you could sample that. Same problem as strings perhaps.

[This message has been edited by Maarten Spruijt (edited 03-22-2002).]

[Bardstown Audio]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by midphase:
The piano sounds good but there\'s something wrong with the Accordion. The attack is too sharp and the notes sound too repetitive.

As a big fan of Piazzolla\'s work, this accordion would never fool me.

Good piano though!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Glad you like the sampled \"Bosendorfer Imperial\" concert grand piano!

I am a huge fan of Astor Piazzolla as well!

Astor Piazzolla did not play accordion, he played a bandoneon, which is an instrument that is similar to an accordion, but is different.

A bandoneon resembles a large concertina in appearance. Also, a bandoneon does not have sharp attacks like an accordion. The attacks on a bandoneon are much less pronounced than an accordion.

The sampled accordions in the \"Classic Accordions\" collection are sample recorded with much precise detail and do depict the exact attack sounds of real accordions.

I have been a professional accordion musician for over thirty years, and I do know exactly what accordions are supposed to sound like, and I say with complete honesty that the sampled accordions in the \"Classic Accordions\" collection emulate real accordions very precisely.

Kip
Bardstown Audio
www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")




[This message has been edited by Bardstown Audio (edited 03-22-2002).]

[Maarten Spruijt]

Well, I would be really interested in hearing a slow piece played with your accordion samples. Could only find polka\'s and other up tempo demos on your site. How would you emulate \"airing\" of the instrument? I\'m just curious, not giving critics on your library because I don\'t know it (only from the demos), but I\'m still looking for a good accordion sample!

[Bardstown Audio]

I am in the process of posting some new demos of the \"Classic Accordions.\" They should be up on my web site later today or tomorrow at the latest.

Kip
Bardstown Audio
www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

[Maarten Spruijt]

Ok cool !

Convince me and I\'ll buy your library hehheh http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

[Bardstown Audio]

Hello Maarten,

I will gladly post a slower demo using the accordions.

One thing that I would like to mention is that many people who play accordion lack good bellow control, thus giving a whooaaoaaooaoaa sound on sustained notes. It is the same principle as someone attempting to play a violin who has poor bowing technique, which can sound horrible. Many people have become accustomed to thinking that is the way an accordion is supposed to sound, when in reality, the sound is not at all smooth or pleasing to people who know how accordions are supposed to sound when played properly by professional accordion musicians. Many people who are unfamiliar with the way accordions are supposed to sound when played by professionals, will define this whooaoaaaoaoa sound as having air.

I have heard many recordings of accordions that have that undesirable whooaaoaooaoaoao sound. You will not hear this sort of thing with the \"Classic Accordions.\" The sampled notes were played properly with good technique during the sample recording process, thus sounding smooth and even, as they are supposed to sound when properly played by professional accordion musicians.

Kip
Bardstown Audio
www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

[Bardstown Audio]

One other point I failed to mention in the previous post is quiet often many people who play accordion change direction of the bellows in the middle of a phrase, or even a sustained note. I have heard this quiet a bit on some recordings as well.

This improper technique also lends itself to giving that so called \"airy\" sound, by changing direction of the bellows in the middle of a phrase, or even on a sustained note. There again, many people are accustomed to hearing accordions played with this poor and improper playing technique, and thus thinking that this is the way accordions are supposed to sound.

Many people who play accordions have not studied accordion with a professional teacher. They started playing accordion as a second instrument and never learned proper playing skills. This is extremely evident to me from what I hear on many recordings, and also from some live performances of people playing accordion that I have seen and heard as well.

Kip
Bardstown Audio
www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

[Maarten Spruijt]

Ok, thanks for the info! I\'m curious about the upcoming demos.

Still, would it be possible to play, for instance, a nice, expressive, Piazzolla-style http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif slow swell/crescendo from pp to f and back. It can\'t be done with just volume. Could it be done with x-fading? Or special sample perhaps...

[Maarten Spruijt]

Then again, don\'t you want people to give the most associative sound? The sound they know and like the best?

Perhaps an endless discussion... like the \"hollywood sound\" anvils you know http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[Bardstown Audio]

I know.... it can get rather subjective, just like doing funky things with hammer felts on a piano, or having tacks and nails vibrating on piano strings :-)

My goal is to provide the best quality sampled instruments that I possibly can with proper playing techniques.

Kip

[midphase]

>>Astor Piazzolla did not play accordion, he played a bandoneon, which is an instrument that is similar to an accordion, but is different. <<


Point well taken, but it still doesn\'t sell me! My comment was more directed towards the emulation of Tango and how your samples enhanced/diminished the realism of the performance.

I am happy that you are working hard on developing a sample library for an instrument that is quite misunderstood and largely unappreciated.

For my money though, I was happier with the sound I obtained from mixing a couple of Accordion samples from World Colours and other sources for my song \"Liberdanse\" as a tribute to Piazzolla.

You can hear it at www.mp3.com/kays (\"http://www.mp3.com/kays\") The track is \"Liberdanse\" (third from the top). This is not some blatant self promotion, just an example of how an older, low memory sample can sound more realistic IMHO....hence I would encourage you to shoot for the stars now that memory and performance are not limitations!

[Bardstown Audio]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by midphase:
>>Astor Piazzolla did not play accordion, he played a bandoneon, which is an instrument that is similar to an accordion, but is different. <<


Point well taken, but it still doesn\'t sell me! My comment was more directed towards the emulation of Tango and how your samples enhanced/diminished the realism of the performance.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bandoneon musicians are not the only people who play authentic tangos!

Many accordion musicians play authentic tangos as well!

Obviously, you are accustomed to listening to tangos being played on bandoneons, as opposed to being played on accordions.

There are many great accordion musicians who play tangos on accordions and sound most authentic, even though it is not the precise sound of a bandoneon, just as a bandoneon does not sound precisely like an accordion.

Both accordions and bandoneons are equally well suited for authentic tango music.

Kip
Bardstown Audio
www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

[midphase]

Look, I am not trying to get into a dissertation on the Tango. All I merely wanted to point out is that there\'s something missing from your samples. The samples themselves are probably very accurate, but there is still something odd about it.

If you are interested in really coming up with a kicking accordion, I would reccomend taking advantage of the feedback that you are getting on this board and try to address the issue.

Maybe it\'s just the performance on the demo mp3.....maybe it\'s me...I dunno!

[midphase]

I also wanted to say that I made my way to your web site and I applaud the efforts that you are putting towards achieving great sample libraries of less common instruments.

Unfortunately listening to the other mp3\'s featuring the accordion confirmed my disappointment....but hey...you can\'t please everybody!

On a side note, $200 for just accordions might be a tad high. I think the piano is probably worth every penny though!

PS.

Looking forward to the Peruvian flutes, have you considered packaging the Guitars, Banjo, Accordion and Flutes into a collection for say $299? You might find it an easier sell, but then again maybe you have no problems moving your merchandise.

[Bardstown Audio]

Midphase,

I listened to your tango demo, and the accordion sample you used is DEFINITELY NOT a tango accordion sound. It is more of a continental musette accordion sound, and a very average sampled accordion as well. On sustained notes, I detected uneven and jagged bellow control, which some people would probably classify as having air breathing to the instrument.

BTW, the \"Classic Accordions\" collection is a two CD disk set, and there are nine different accordion Giga instruments.

Kip
Bardstown Audio
www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")