"Bosendorfer Imperial," Piano Test Shoot Out

[Bardstown Audio]

I downloaded the piano test midi file from Purgatory Creek less than an hour ago, and recorded this MP3 of the Bosendorfer Imperial using that midi file.

Many have been requesting this demo, so here it is...
http://www.bardstownaudio.com/mp3/shoot.mp3 (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com/mp3/shoot.mp3\")

Kip
Bardstown Audio
www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")




[This message has been edited by Bardstown Audio (edited 03-15-2002).]

[Bardstown Audio]

This piano test demo is posted to the MP3 page of Bardstown Audio\'s web site, not the Purgatory Creek web site.

Kip

[ed hamilton]

Thanks for the demo mp3!!
Apples to apples as they say.

You might be getting a piece of my credit card soon!

[Bardstown Audio]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ed hamilton:
Thanks for the demo mp3!!
Apples to apples as they say.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


You are most welcome!

Kip

[Aaron Levitz]

Very nice.

I know it\'s a lot of extra work, but if you record mp3s of that with several distinct articulations, the diversity of sounds would better illustrate what folks comparison-shopping through Purgatory Creek would have to look forward to from your library.

Okay, I\'ll admit it. I just want to see the UFO one up there! =)

Perhaps some of your users can fill in the blanks so it\'s not a burden on one person?

(For the record, I do plan to purchase Bosendorfer Imperial the moment my credit cards aren\'t so completely maxed out. Your demos have actually sold me on the fact that I need another piano more than I need to fill actual holes in my collection. That\'s no easy task, let me tell you. So, don\'t think this is a \"never satisfied\" post. It\'s anything but...)


[This message has been edited by Aaron Levitz (edited 03-15-2002).]

[Bardstown Audio]

Thanks Aaron,

I would like to accommodate you with mp3\'s of various articulations, but my web site is filling up to the limit, in terms of space. I have some more mp3\'s in the works that I will be putting up in the next couple of days.

I am either going to have to buy more space for my web site, or eliminate some of the older mp3\'s, in order to make room for new ones.

Kip

[EnsoniqWiz]

Kip,

Well, I downloaded the mp3 of the Purgatory Creek midi file played on the Bardstown Bosendorfer...

I\'ve also spent some time getting \"up close and personal\" with the contents of that midi file. I can fully understand why and how it would expose many problems on sampled pianos. It also lead me to some discoveries about my controller (and the midi velocity range I could generate with it).

I\'ve listened to literally every single mp3 on the Purgatory site. For me, some are easy to eliminate from my consideration as \"second rate\" or \"unsuitable for my purposes.\"

A few of the original offerings hung around until the very end. After going through the remaining few countless times, I selected the one I thought was the best. I didn\'t buy it yet, but just held it there for reference.

This morning, I downloaded yours, and set it side by side with my previous winner.

All I can say is this: Your piano is simply the best! To my ear, it was head and shoulders above the best of the previous entries. Even though I can\'t afford it right now, I\'m going to order a copy today anyway. It is just that good, and getting to hear it side by side iced the cake for me.

One thing you might consider is to offer a zip file that combines some of the older mp3\'s. Using maximum compression, the pianotest.mp3 file was reduced by 48%... that might buy you some time before you have to buy more space http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Cheers!

[ed hamilton]

Kip,

I really liked your purgatory mps.
I too have downloaded every piano in the shootout.
I have them all lined up in itunes for quick comparisons.

The quality of your piano is easily heard.
Is there a brighter articulation of it that I do not know about?

I am in need of a brighter/more studio sounding piano. Closer miced. Sits easier in a more dense, comtemorary mix. That sort of thing.
I would hate to overlook your piano simply because you posted the richest version of it and I am looking for a brighter version that is also on the disc.

thanks

ed

[Bardstown Audio]

Hello Ed,

Yes! There is definitely a brighter sounding version of this sampled Bosendorfer Imperial, than the filter patch version that I used on the \"shoot out\" midi file. The particular patch that I used for the \"shoot out\" comparison was the velocity filter patch.

The full Bosendorfer, which is the default piano that is loaded initially, is much brighter than the velocity filter patch.

Here are some links to some mp3\'s of the full Bosendorfer Imperial, which are totally unprocessed sampled versions of this instrument, which do sound brighter.


http://www.bardstownaudio.com/mp3/005.mp3 (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com/mp3/005.mp3\")


http://www.bardstownaudio.com/mp3/006.mp3 (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com/mp3/006.mp3\")


http://www.bardstownaudio.com/mp3/007.mp3 (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com/mp3/007.mp3\")

Kip
Bardstown Audio
www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

[Mark_Knecht]

Kip,
Hey, I\'m glad you\'ve gone down this path. I listened to the first shooutout mp3. It sounds very good. At least as good as the best that\'s there right now. Comments questions:

I quickly loaded the mp3\'s (yours and two from the shoot out page, Trachtman C-8 and EW-Steinway-B) into Sound Forge:

1) Your mp3 is 320Kb/S, while the other two are 192Kb/S. Not really apples to apples.

2) Your sample is about 2-2.5dB hotter than the other two I listened to. Again, it\'s just an apples to apples question. I don\'t know whether those guys did any normalization or not.

And my questions are...

1) Did you make any changes to the standard MIDI file that you downloaded to optimize it in any way for your library?

2) Is the audio put through any form of post processing. (Reverb, EQ, compression.)

The results there are really great. Easily one of the best I\'ve heard to date.

Cheers,
Mark

[This message has been edited by Mark_Knecht (edited 03-15-2002).]

[Bardstown Audio]

Hello Mark,

I am very glad you are impressed with the \"shoot out\" demo of the \"Bosendorfer Imperial.\"

This demo was recorded from the \"shoot out\" midi file as is, without any editing to the midi file. There was no normalization, limiting, compression, or EQ or any kind. I did add a very slight amount of reverb, and I do mean a very slight amount, which was hardly noticeable either with or without. Throughout this whole \"shoot out\" midi file demo, there is very extensive use of the damper sustain pedal with pedal down samples, so any reverb to any excess would have made for a demo of this midi file with any sampled piano, sound a bit muddy. I probably should not have used any reverb whatsoever, because it really did not make any difference, one way or the other.

One other thing I would like to comment on is this... the actual \"shoot out\" midi file was not edited in any fashion. What you hear is what you get. I personally have this sampled \"Bosendorfer Imperial\" on my personal Giga Studio computer with two different .gig file versions. The only difference between the two versions are the velocity settings in the Giga Editor. One of the versions that I have on my Giga Studio computer is the original \"packaged\" version that I sell to customers. The other version is exactly the same sampled \"Bosendorfer Imperial,\" except for different velocity settings in the Giga Editor. Before I initially released this sampled piano, I debated as to how I should set the velocity settings in the Giga Editor. Personally, I prefer a sampled piano with the velocity settings set higher than most of the other sampled pianos on the market, because I personally like to play a keyboard controller with more force than most other people. After discussing this issue with other people, it was the consensus that it would be better to release this piano with velocity settings in the Giga Editor that would be in line with other sampled pianos on the market. These velocity settings are very easily adjusted in the Giga Editor. For the purpose of more clarification as to what I am talking about, the loudest velocity settings on the \"Bosendorfer Imperial\" are set to trigger with a velocity force of around 102 straight off of the CD. For my personal use, I move this setting in the Giga Editor to approximately 116 in order to satisfy my personal playing style.

On this midi \"shoot out\" demo, I used my velocity settings, rather than the velocity settings straight from the installation CD. By no means, is this cheating, because it is the same exact sampled \"Bosendorfer Imperial,\" and users can make these same exact adjustments in the Giga Editor in order to suit their personal playing styles. As a matter of fact, I came very close to releasing this sampled \"Bosendorfer Imperial\" with these same exact velocity settings.

For people who are unfamiliar with the Giga Editor, I gladly give free tech support over the telephone at my telephone expense. I have given such free telephone tech support for this very thing, regarding velocity settings, at my expense to customers who live overseas, and I am very happy to do it.

It is my personal goal to provide not only very high quality sampled instruments, but friendly customer service as well. With Bardstown Audio, the service does not end with the sale. Customer service is available to any customer at any time, not only in the present, but anytime in the future as well.

Kip
Bardstown Audio
www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

[Bardstown Audio]

Ed,

Here is one more mp3 of the Bosendorfer Imperial with the full piano sound without filters. This particular mp3 is a jazz piano, bass, and drums selection.

http://www.bardstownaudio.com/mp3/030.mp3 (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com/mp3/030.mp3\")


Kip
Bardstown Audio
www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

[Bardstown Audio]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EnsoniqWiz:
Kip,

Well, I downloaded the mp3 of the Purgatory Creek midi file played on the Bardstown Bosendorfer...


I\'ve listened to literally every single mp3 on the Purgatory site. For me, some are easy to eliminate from my consideration as \"second rate\" or \"unsuitable for my purposes.\"

A few of the original offerings hung around until the very end. After going through the remaining few countless times, I selected the one I thought was the best. I didn\'t buy it yet, but just held it there for reference.

This morning, I downloaded yours, and set it side by side with my previous winner.

All I can say is this: Your piano is simply the best! To my ear, it was head and shoulders above the best of the previous entries. Even though I can\'t afford it right now, I\'m going to order a copy today anyway. It is just that good, and getting to hear it side by side iced the cake for me.

Cheers!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Your observations and compliments are very much appreciated!

Thank you!

Kip
Bardstown Audio
www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

[EnsoniqWiz]

I took the plunge!

Friday, I called up Bardstown Audio and ordered the Bosendorfer. I\'m very eager to receive it and to put it through its paces.

I\'ll post my observations once it arrives and I have a chance to get familiar with it. Perhaps I can post a couple of MP3\'s of my own somewhere...

P.S. Kip -- enjoyed chatting with you!

[Mark_Knecht]

Kip,
Hey, we forgive transgressions here! It\'s St. Patrick\'s Day. Let\'s focus on the good stuff. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

MIDI File unedited - perfect

Used reverb - No big deal to me

Velocity setting differencesc- This would be the only one I might have a SMALL issue with. Personally I don\'t know how how many people know to make these changes. (I\'m not good at it...) It\'s hard, I\'m sure, for you guys who develop libraries to remember that many of us do very little with the editor and are looking for that out of the box experience.

WRT this specific change, it sounds like a pretty minimal issue. Looking at the MIDI input though, it seems that you would have moved a lot of the MIDI notes from what would be your normal 4th velocity level down to the third level. Do you agree? I have no idea, without hearing the normal gig file, how much difference this makes...

Cheers,
Mark

[ed hamilton]

Kip,
Thanks for the brighter mp3\'s!!!
Much better imo.
Giga\'s filters muffle things in an unpleasent way to my ears.
Very impressed.

Mark,
I think your right about the midi data hitting lower velocity layers in kips purgatory mp3.
Download the mp3s he posted for me.
You wouldn\'t know that the piano could be that nice and bright by the purgatory mp3.
I almost wrote it off as another really dark muffled piano sample set. Glad I asked kip the question.

thanks again Kip.

ed

[esperlad]

I just wanted to tell everyone how useful this piano has been for me.
I had written a piece for music, and I was amazed by how good my music sounded. I liked the recording so much that I put it on my website.
I am using the piano on my current film score. When the director heard the cue, he loved it!
I can\'t wait until more sounds are released! The quality of everything is outstanding!

[Bardstown Audio]

Quote:
<<<\"Velocity setting differencesc- This would be the only one I might have a SMALL issue with. Personally I don\'t know how how many people know to make these changes. (I\'m not good at it...) It\'s hard, I\'m sure, for you guys who develop libraries to remember that many of us do very little with the editor and are looking for that out of the box experience.\">>>
End of Quote:


Hello Mark,

I will gladly spend a few minutes on the telephone with any of my customers with them sitting in front of their computer with the Bosendorfer loaded into the Giga Editor, in order to go through the simple steps of changing velocity settings. It really is a very simple and quick procedure in order to change these velocity settings.

I have personally found that over 75% of my customers like the velocity settings just the way they are off of the CD, while less than 25% like the velocity settings moved up, in the same way that I prefer to have the velocity settings on the Bosendorfer Imperial.

Once velocity changes are made, you can either \"save\" or \"save as.\" \"Saving\" will make these changes on the piano gig file being edited, while \"saving as\" will write a whole new second gig file, thus giving you the option of having both settings on two different piano gig files.

Happy St. Patrick\'s Day!

Kip

[EnsoniqWiz]

Much to my delight, my copy of the Bardstown Audio Bosendorfer arrived today. Needless to say, I started playing with it immediately. I eventually had to stop, though, mainly to preserve marital peace! <grin>

I wanted to share my initial impressions... and I will share more as I get more opportunity to work with it.

Right off the bat, I started with the \"full\" sample. The sounds produced are marvelous, and really capture the spirit of the Imperial very nicely. The characteristic \"light percussive sound\" that an Imperial will produce on heavy velocity is accurately reproduced. The velocity range and control is excellent across the board.

I went through a wide range of styles (some of which I play better than others)... In all cases, I found the instrument highly enjoyable to play. For my ears, the full patch is sufficiently \"bright\" to cut through a pop mix. It certainly is not as bright as some other samples I have (for other samplers), but is far more true to \"reality.\" Nevertheless, it held up quite nicely to a diet of everything from Mozart to Liszt to Joplin.

Equally impressive is the more mellow \"Velocity Filter\" version. This setting removes some of the \"edge\" from the full mix, producing a deeper, more sonorous tone -- yet maintaining a Bosendorfer feel to the sound. I found this patch to lend itself quite nicely to a wide range of pieces as well. I think I liked this setting a little better for deeper, more somber pieces (like some Brahms works, for example).

Without fail, I was able to get either variant of the instrument to \"sing.\" It has no trouble with a lyric melody -- it neither stands out obnoxiously, nor hides in a muddle of notes. The transition from Pedal up to Pedal down is seamless (unlike some piano samples, which frankly sound like a different instrument when pedalled). Velocity transitions are equally smooth. Again, I was impressed by the expressiveness that could be achieved.

The tuning of the sample is impeccable -- both relative to itself and overall. I played a number of pieces involving open octaves across a wide range, and there were no tuning or intonation problems that I could here.

There are some more variants that I didn\'t get a chance to get to yet -- so I can\'t really comment on how they sound...


I know I sound like I\'m bubbling... Honestly, I\'m not an easy person to impress and I have approached the entire sampled piano arena with great skepticism. However, this is a quality piece of workmanship, and it deserves recognition. At least from what I\'ve done with it so far, it gets an enthusiastic recommendation from me.

I\'ll post more notes as I experiment some more...

[Bardstown Audio]

EnsoniqWiz,

Your comments are very much appreciated!

Thanks,
Kip

[David Sears]

My wife and I live close to Bardstown so I called Kip the other day and arranged to come to his house on saturday and pick up a copy of the Bosendorfer. He was very gracious, played samples for us from his other libraries, let us play the 9 ft. Baldwin he\'s going to sample next and in general was a pleasure to do business with. Unfortunately, we had to hurry back to Danville and couldn\'t stay and discuss music longer.

As to the Baldwin he\'s going to work on next, I played it and it is a wonderful sounding piano. I\'ll buy a copy as soon as it\'s ready. The Bosendorfer sounds great as well. I had a pop/country song with a midi track ready to go. I tried the Bosendorfer and it sat in the mix really well. I\'m very pleased with the instrument and will use it a lot. My wife was sold on it too and she\'s VERY picky about piano sounds.

- David Sears