Output Level from GigaSampler

[Lougheed]

I\'m using the Ensoniq Audio PCI card with GigaSampler (praying daily for MOTU 2408 support!) and I\'m VERY frustrated with the output level from GigaSampler.

It is the ONE aspect of GigaSampler that doesn\'t seem professional, IMHO.

I have set the master attenuation to +6dB, and increased the MIXER sliders for each channel, and made sure that the Ensoniq mixer settings are at maximum. However, the output level I get is still FAR below that of all my other gear.

Is this due to the low quality sound card I\'m using, or am I missing something?

Thanks,

Lawrence

[Bob Campbell]

I get the same thing using the Aark 20/20 I think it\'s a problem with Gigasampler. You\'re not the first person to complain about it, put it that way.

It\'s like the whole volume level is about 6db too quiet, even when you put the +6b overall boost on.

The other thing with the volume in GS is the fact that the editor does not change the volume in linear increments. Try change a sound from 0 to 3 and listen, then -3 to -6, then -6 to -9 then -9 to -12. It seems to jump on the multiples of 6, i.e. 0,-6,-12,-18. This is not very good as we all know there are other volumes between those http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

I hope they have taken my old suggestion with Gigastudio and given the choice to display and edit volume in either dB or % from -96 to 0db, in fine increments, it\'s really a basic necessity of a sampler.

Bob

[Bob Campbell]

I get the same thing using the Aark 20/20 I think it\'s a problem with Gigasampler. You\'re not the first person to complain about it, put it that way.

It\'s like the whole volume level is about 6db too quiet, even when you put the +6b overall boost on.

The other thing with the volume in GS is the fact that the editor does not change the volume in linear increments. Try change a sound from 0 to 3 and listen, then -3 to -6, then -6 to -9 then -9 to -12. It seems to jump on the multiples of 6, i.e. 0,-6,-12,-18. This is not very good as we all know there are other volumes between those http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

I hope they have taken my old suggestion with Gigastudio and given the choice to display and edit volume in either dB or % from -96 to 0db, in fine increments, it\'s really a basic necessity of a sampler.

Bob

[Kenn159]

I called nemesys about that and they said it was because you need the headroom for sample so that if your playing 64 voices it doesn\'t clip. but the thing is my hardware emu sampler is also 64 voice and a lot louder . Also I brought my sound blaster live card over to a freinds house and compared it to his gina card playing cakewalk , giga etc and the gina has alot hotter output. So my problem of low volume is from both sources , soundblaster live and giga sampler .
One thing that you can do in conjuction to what you have done already that seems to help is find out which midi controller # is asigned to volume and crack it all the way up .

[killerbobjr]

>>>>
I get the same thing using the Aark 20/20 I think it\'s a problem with Gigasampler. You\'re not the first person to complain about it, put it that way.
<<<<

Hmm, I also have the 20/20 and I haven\'t seen this problem. The output volumes from my 20/20, soundcard, and outboard modules all are roughly the same level. In fact, I\'ve found I\'ve had to reduce levels in GS when using audio capture to prevent clipping.

[AV]

This problem has been posted MANY times before and I really hope Nemesys will take this seriously. I totally agree that due to this problem, Giga cannot be considered a \" Professional \" product yet. Due to this problem, the sound coming from Gigasampler is kind of wimpy compare to all my other hardware stuff.
Nemesys claim that this is to prevent the ouput to distort...well all I can say to that is that it\'s simply POOR design. If you need to attenuate your internal routing architecture to this extent in order to prevent distortion than there\'s a problem. Due to this Giga has NO headroom at all, therefore the sounds coming out from it is so weak.
I really hope they pay more attention to crucial details like this, because after all, you can have all the bells and whistles in the world but if the meats and potatoes ain\'t there than it\'s useless, and to me, sound quality is everything.

[Chris Beck]

Not that this helps any of you, but I run Giga through an Aark TDIF card digitally into an 02R, and it sounds great. Maybe the solution for those of you needing \"pro\" output is to get a TDIF or ADAT card and some nice D/A convertors.

For what it\'s worth...

- Chris

[Joris Vincken]

Nemesys is right when they say you need headroom. If you add up multiple samples, the volume will be louder. In order to avoid clipping, you need to lower the volume. There is no way around this since digitally maximum cannot be louder (this is the biggest problem with ALL digital recording equipment). However if you only have one kickdrum, snare, bass or whatever on an output, you need full level. Emu has a good solution for this, they have a low output level (just like GS), but you can increase it. It\'s up to you then to set the levels right to get a clean output.

[elle]

Looks like again some intelligent automation would be helpfull here. We saw the same meed also for dynamic sample allocation, and there will probably be more situation where Gigastudio/smapler might use more internal intelligence. Hint, hint

[killerbobjr]

>>>>
Nemesys claim that this is to prevent the ouput to distort...well all I can say to that is that it\'s simply POOR design. If you need to attenuate your internal routing architecture to this extent in order to prevent distortion than there\'s a problem. Due to this Giga has NO headroom at all, therefore the sounds coming out from it is so weak.
<<<<

It\'s not poor design, it\'s GOOD design. Most synths compress the source waveform and soft-clip the summed outputs. Since most samples in GS aren\'t compressed and the output isn\'t allowed to go into clipping (most of the time), the output is going to be coming out sounding low in level. And the default velocity curve is exponential, not linear, so soft to medium velocities will come out mostly soft. If you really want loud, go into the editor, export all the samples, run them through a normalizer/compressor/limiter, re-import them, and set all the velocity curves to linear with a low dynamic range. It will no longer sound natural, but you\'ll get your loudness.

[Lougheed]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Not that this helps any of you, but I run Giga through an Aark TDIF card digitally into an 02R, and it sounds great. Maybe the solution for those of you needing \"pro\" output is to get a TDIF or ADAT card and some nice D/A convertors.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There\'s the rub. I do have MOTU 2408, butit won\'t work with the GigaSampler.


[This message has been edited by Lougheed (edited 03-08-2000).]

[abi]

Lougheed: I have MOTU 2408 too... would really like to have some GSIF or at least directx support. I saw on MOTU\'s site that they\'re hiring MAC/Windows driver developer. Let\'s hope that they\'re gonna develop GSIF/directx driver.

[SCARBEE]

If I set the output to +6DB the sound is COMPRESSED! Try make a recording using 4 velocities: 120, 100, 90, 60 and do the same again with 0 db output. On my system +6 DB output kills the dynamics...

Thomas

[Laurence]

I run Gigasampler with a Frontier Dakota. The output of this is run via lightpipe into a Yamaha DSP Factory through an AX44. The output is exactly where it should be. In fact I have mine scaled back a little so that I don\'t run out of headroom.

[Lougheed]

Interesting. Are you running GigaSampler on a separate system?

When I bought GigaSampler, enclosed with the box was a brochure for Frontier, which has got me wondering about it. I could digitally connect to the MOTU 2408. I\'m sure I wouldn\'t want to do this if running one system. In that case I would want MOTU to develop a driver for GigaSampler!

Lawrence

[abi]

Lougheed: I\'m running GigaSampler on another machine using SoundBlaster Live! card. I connect the SPDIF out to 2408\'s SPDIF in. I would really like to have the WaveCenter PCI card with ADAT... but it\'s too expensive for my budget. If you don\'t care about the multi out, SB Live\'s SPDIF out is adequate.

[Laurence]

I\'m running what would seem to be an akward system. One computer with an Emu APS, Frontier Dakota, Yamaha AX44 and two DSP Factories. It really works well though. I use one DSP Factory for digital audio. Gigasampler voices go from the Dakota via lightpipe and the AX44 into the second DSP Factory. These are cascaded and controlled by C-Mexx\'s C-Console. The SPDIF out from the DSP Factories goes to the Emu APS. This lets me augment Gigasampler\'s polyphony with Soundfonts. At first I kind of wished Yamaha would write a GSIF driver for the DSP Factory. Now I kind of like this setup because by switching between internal and external ins on the DSP Factory, I can allocate DSP Factory channels as either audio playback or Gigasampler without reconfiguring anything. It\'s a lot of cards, but the DSP Factory running under C-Console is absolutely awesome. With the extra polyphony and assignable outputs of Gigastudio, I might even get rid of the APS and add another AX44 and a Frontier Montana. This would give me a 48 channel mixer with up to 40 channels dynamically allocatable between digital audio and Gigastudio voices and four stereo pairs of effects.

[Mahler]

Time to remember word-clock to when forth-
comming sytem are configured, saw a new
EWS 88 variant is about a mounth from
release 1 ADAT I/O 1 S/PDIF, (10I/O), 2 midi
in/out, cascade-able, 500 D mark, wordclock
optional, GSIF from start :-))), this card
I think is \"as made for the new giga-studio\".

Regards

Henrik Mahler

[nous]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Beck: Not that this helps any of you, but I run Giga through an Aark TDIF card digitally into an 02R, and it sounds great.
- Chris<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Greetings Chris:
What drivers are you using for your aark tdif? I\'m having trouble getting giga to output thru my aark tdif. Giga complaind of
hardware errors. Any help on the drivers would be appreciated. you could e-mail me
at skarl@city-net.com also.
Thank you,
Steve


[This message has been edited by nous (edited 08-10-2000).]