Question for Mr.KingIdiot (About EQ)

[Veron]

Mr.KingIdiot

I have a little problemwith mixing
Strings and other Orchestral Instruments.
When I mix the Strings(All the Section`s
are playing) with other instruments
like Oboe,Flute etc. the Strings
erase the sounds of other instruments.
I tryed lowering the volume of the strings
but if I do that then the Strings sounds
toLow.So I thought EQing should
do the thing. But I dont know much about EQing.I dont know what Hz I have to boost
and what Hz I have to lower.
And I thought a professional like you could
help me.
I saw your \"engineer talking\" in another
post.It had alots of Professional words
and I didnt know what you were saying so
I appreciateit if you could teach me
what to do with no professinal words.

For Example Like this.

1000Hz +4dB

500Hz -2dB

By the way Im using Roland
SRX-04 and the SRJV Orch Boards for
Oboe and Flute etc.
(I`m thinking of adding Smart Violins to
my string sounds because I liked the sound
of the Demo that Mr.Thomas_J made.
I aslo like Kirk Hunter and GOS but Its
too expensive for me right know.But I`m
thinking of buying it in the future and
use it with Halion.Because I dont have
a Windows PC)

Thank you for reading.And sorry about the long post.


Veron

[KingIdiot]

hhmmm looks like all my talks put me into a place that may shine some light on the fact that I dont know what the hell I\'m tlaking about http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif


hehheh

Anyhow,From discussing orchestral mixing with Other people around on the forum, it seems to be a combination of two things with winds and strings


One being composition, and another being placement.

From talkign with people they consider Woods to \"warm up\" the sound of the orchestra if played while the rest of the orchestra is playing. Not so much to stand out, but to \"fill in\" the space. Of course this probably depends on the composition.

The thing I would worry about more than jsut EQ is \"placement\" withing the reverb.

Try using pre fader sends tot he Reverb. If you are using the internal Roland Reverb ty using a different combination of dry and wet mixes. Whicherver being more prominent use a more \"dry\" sound in combination with turning the volume up.

With regards to EQ. usually the \"farther back\" and instrument is in a room the more high end is lost, so try mimmickign this effect by using filters, or shelving off EQ at 8k and down further depending on the effect you want.

There are other things that can affect the \"proximity\" of the sound. Low end cuts and notch filters. but its all dependant on the sample and the instrument...not to mention \"where\" you want the sound to come from.


Really its all personal taste.

I\'m not really sure how I got the label as \"tweak\", maybe only because I share what I do and learn, but in all honesty there is some mixing going on, on this forum that have me trying to mimic THEIR sounds. Thomas J and Siman being two off the top of my head. Nick Pheonix another.

Listening I can start to understand that everyone has their own sound they hear in their mind, and also have come to realize tou \"tweak\" what you know.....and lastly come to realize you only \"know\" anything by fooling around and learning over time.

and blah blah blah

I wish I could really help in general, but I think it comes down to the piece in particular because there are MANY things more going on than jsut EQ that can bring out a particular instrument.

oh BTW. Personally I like \"air\" in my woodwinds so I start adding tiny bits of sizzle in the 13k range. With a mid to wide \"Q\" range. Its contradictory to what happens in a single room with placement, but I like it because it brings out the sense of breathing with players. If you can modulate this...then it can be even better.


Perhaps some of the more intelligent people on this forum can chime in with suggesttions.

------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 03-09-2002).]

[EnsoniqWiz]

If you are doing an orchestral or orchestral-style piece, you can also use panning to help with this.

Generally, your higher string sounds (violins) will be on the left, low strings on the right, and woodwinds in the center. Brass will be back center for mid brass, back right for lower brass. Percussion, back left.

When you pan the high strings to the left more, you may find that their level can be reduced (so they don\'t overwhelm the woodwind sounds), and have them still be heard. The more sharply panned off center a sound is, the less \"level\" it needs to be distinctly heard.

A sound that, individually, sounds nice when panned center may, in fact, cancel with (or be cancelled by) something else panned center.

Of course, subtlety needs to be involved when selecting a left-right position. When a melody carrying voice is panned too far off center, or that voice carries the lead melody for a long time, you can end up with a condition I refer to as \"tired melody ear.\"

And KingI was absolutely right on the \"placement\" issue, and the use of reverb. Creating the illusion of \"depth\" is also vital in a good mix. Not everything needs to be (or should be) \"in yer face\" up front.

[Veron]

Mr.KingIdiot and Mr.EnsoniqWiz thank you
for your reply`s.I really appreciate it.

What you wrote is definitly going to
help me. Thanks. I`m going to try it
right now.

BTW I saved this topic in my HDD right
now.

Thank you many times!


Veron

[dwdonehoo]

\"Generally, your higher string sounds (violins) will be on the left, low strings on the right, and woodwinds in the center. Brass will be back center for mid brass, back right for lower brass. Percussion, back left.\"

After composition, learning the mix is probably the next major thing you never quite master. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif KI mentioned some good examples of people here who have really great mixes, and I would be all ears if they were to chime in with their methods and hw/sw used. For example, Thomas says he uses NFX and/or Zoom, but I am sure there is more to his mixing methods than that.

To tie in the quote above, I have an orchestra seating chart I created that is fairly good. I currently have no room at my site to post it (that may soon change), but I would be happy to email it to someone if they wish to post it. I will soon have another chart based on \"The Harvard Brief Dictrionary of Music\" I think would be even better I will also donate if anybody is interested. My $0.02.

--------------
Doyle W. Donehoo
Radar Music
http://www.sierra-trails.com/radarmusic.html (\"http://www.sierra-trails.com/radarmusic.html\")

MP3.COM:
http://www.mp3.com/Doyle_W_Donehoo (\"http://www.mp3.com/Doyle_W_Donehoo\")

[Veron]

Mr.dwdonehoo,thank you for your reply.

I think mixing is very difficult to learn too.Also I`m not finishied learning
composition yet.

I started composing and listen to my
music but I didnt like the mix.

And I tried the 8Hz technique that
Mr.KingIdiot tought me.And WOW!!
It got better!!This technique really
helped me!And I`m tring the
\"dry and wet mix\" right now.

BTW I`m not studying at school.
I`m studying by myself.So this
Forum really helps me because there are
very kind people and very helpful topics here.

>For example, Thomas says he uses NFX and/or >Zoom, but I am sure there is more to his
>mixing methods than that.
I know Mr.Thomas_J uses Zoom.If I can get that great mix,I`ll definitly get that Zoom reverb right away.But I think its not just
the reverb,its \"who uses the reverb or
any other instrument\".Who has the technique.
I wonder what technique Mr.Thoms_J is
using.

And about the orchestra seating chart.
If you post it on your page sometime in the future please tell me.

And thank you again!

Veron

[Tokyo Joe]

Doyle\'s \'orchestra seating charts\' can be found at the following:

Old Seating Chart: http://home.sc.rr.com/tokyojoe/images/SeatingChart.gif (\"http://home.sc.rr.com/tokyojoe/images/SeatingChart.gif\")

New Seating Chart: http://home.sc.rr.com/tokyojoe/images/NewSeatingChart.gif (\"http://home.sc.rr.com/tokyojoe/images/NewSeatingChart.gif\")

[Veron]

Mr.Tokyo Joe,thank you very much
for uploading it and thank you
Mr.Dolye for making this great chart.
I`ll print it out and put it on the
wall in front of me.This is really
gonna help me!


Veron