The Authorized Steinway for a Beginner.....

[robmuc05]

Hallo,

i´m a Beginner of playing piano , 44 years old. I loving the sound of a real piano since my childhood...but nevertheless i don´t start to learn to play piano in my childhood....not until with 40 years i started with Keyboard and the first Pianosamples i found in the Internet.

Across 20 MB samples i started , i found the MilanDigitalAudio Steinway with 6GB.....and this was the point i started to believe, that a sampled Piano can give the impression and more and more the inspiration of a real accoustic instrument...i hated the synthetic sounds of the Digipianos in the 80´s and 90´s.....

Very hard to learn without teacher i started - and have fun , because the feeling and realistic sound of the MilanDigitalAudio sampler - also for a beginner of pianoplaying - gives me much more motivation than on this older synthetic sounds of the first generations of Digipianos or the first small Samplers with 20-80 Mbyte.

After this i tried the Artvista GrandPiano....very nice sounding - but hard to play live....and the bass-notes are tooo weak...but nevertheless a gigantic sound..

Very nice - and very impressive and also very playable: The Ivory from Synthogy - at the moment one of my favorites.

Also very interesting - especially in future: The Pianoteq , because the 256 life-calculated Velocity´s and the sympathetic resonaces.

Ok - now comes the "Dream" of a lot of Sampler-piano-players: The Garritan Steinway made with this great company STEINWAY together.....can this worktogether fullfill the dreams of "The ultimative Steinway-Sampler-Software" we are waiting on for years??

The Sound:
Nice, warm, "woody" - i like it very well - on the side of Artvista GrandPiano, SampleTekks BlackGrand and the Ivory the new Garritan Steinway i would prefer....but.....

The Demos:
The same problem like a lot of other Samplers . The Demo´s sounding very impressive -but in real , live playing it´s often very difficult to play similiar impressive and dynamically . The IVORY in this case is very easily to adapt, and live-playing is not very far away from the impressions of the Demos. Also the Pianoteq is good to adapt on the own Keyboard. And the Garritan Steinway?? Ok - i started to play.....i heard very low sound....and have to increase very high my Loudness on my reciever. In the software than i found the knobs for the Tone - and i have to increase to 15-20 Dezibel plus....why???

The next problem: The velocity....or it is too hard, and a very soft tone i would have to play with a feather, or it is too soft, and the sound generally is difficault to play loud and impressive - is sounds like a tooo weak piano.....this some peoples just postet here...they thinking in some Demos the Garritan would be tooo weak

Playability:
Hmm - ok, i´m not a good pianoplayer) Unfortunatly i learning very slow - perhapy, because i´m autodidact...without a teacher.
BUT - nevertheless....also for me as a Beginner: If the instrument i play, have the possibilties of a wide range of Dynamik, i can play from the ppp to the FF, and the Tone would have enough PUNCH , but on the same time i can play soft - this gives me the Fun and the Inspiration to play on a piano.
To adjust the velocity-curves is made tooo simple!! If you increase the linear velocity curve only one level higher....you can not touch your keyboard in a way, to hear nothing....the first velocity-level is just to loud - try it.
Only of you have a expensive and good Keyboard, you could adjust your Velocitycurves on your Keyboard...but the most peoples don´t have such high-quality Keyboards, and in my opinion is it a very essential point , to implement in such a good Samplersoftware also a much more flexible possibility of adjusting the velocitycurves than it is done by the Garritan Steinway.
For the good Ariaplayer, the very good basicsamples this is for me a unforgiveable missing item.
So a lot of users will have problems to get a impressive experience to play this piano and will be a little bit dissapointed , and they will undervalue the potencial of this very nice sounding Steinway Software Sampler.

I found my own solution. My solution i can play live, with a Dual-core Intel , a normal Drive (5400 Turns) , Win XP and 3 GB Ram.
Before i get problems with my memory, i have to play minimum 1 Hour - often 2 Hour´s, than my memory is "full" and the software begins to loose tones or producing "klicks" by streaming the missing notes. Than i reload the software - and can play again ) ATTENTION: This is only with MY solution!!! With the Garritan Steinway alone, there is no Problem, it works very very well . I write this , not that some peoples misunderstanding me - and would think there is a problem with the Garritan...NO,its working very fine.

I recorded a nice existing (NOT i´m played!!) midifile, one time you hear the pure Garritan STeinway played in cubase.
The second file is the same Midi played with my Solution, this sound, Dynamik and "Punch" in the louder parts i enjoy soo much....ohh.....))
BUT i have to say: without the new Garritan Steinway i woudn´t have this possibility of creating my own solution of a live-playing Software piano, and so i´m very very happy about this new Steinway sampler))

Here the files if you like to hear:

First the Original Garritan Steinway:http://home.arcor.de/rob.muc/PianoSa...20Steinway.mp3 (http://home.arcor.de/rob.muc/PianoSampler/01%20-%20AAA%20Garritan%20Original%20Steinway.mp3)


Second is the changed and mixed simultniously Version, my playable Version:http://home.arcor.de/rob.muc/PianoSa...tan%20Plus.mp3 (http://home.arcor.de/rob.muc/PianoSampler/01%20-%20%20AAA%20MODDED_Garritan%20Plus.mp3)

Enjoy it - and Greetings to all other happy Garritan Steinway users - waiting on a update with better Velocity adjustment:))

Your Rob aus Muc - robmuc

[robmuc05]

Uuups - i have to pay for traffic - because the traffic was in only 1 Day more than 1 Gigabyte?? Whow.....

I payed 2 GB Traffic more...i don´t know how many days this support...

Is there annother possibility to store mp3 files - perhaps directly here on Northernsounds.com ???

The community here seems to be very big...))

Greetings to you all
robmuc

[electone2007]

Try www.box.net (http://www.box.net)

[marce]

Im dreaming, or this thread had 5 or 6 interesting replies two days ago, that are not here? Someone ask you about what`s your solution and that.
Some forum issue?

[electone2007]

I was the one who asked what the solution was. This thread was also posted in the listening room. That's probably the thread that you came across the last couple of days.

So, Rob... I'm still listening.

[robmuc05]

Hallo,

yes - i was the first time here on NorthernSounds - and so , i posted my Thread on a wrong space, later i have seen, there is existing a special place for the Garritan Authorized Steinway and posted a second time. Now i´m posting only here)

Ok - what i tried for my solution?
I prefered the Ivory Steinway, very good Dynamik and this very good "Punch" if you playing with more expression. I picked up the "SessionD10 Level" without the SoftpedalSamples, Loudness 8 to 9.5 you can choose. AMBIENTE is off.
The disvantage of the IVORY is, you can not really play sensitive from ppp-pp-p-mf . In soft-parts the velocity-layers are not sensitive enough, the jumps in Loudness and changing the timbre are too much.

In this missing and un-sensitive gaps fitting very perfect the Pianoteq with his "Grand C2Concert" preset. Change nothing in Tuning or else, give a little reverb (but not too much) and reduce the Loudness to -3 to -5. The Pianoteq should not dominate the sound -it give additionally to the Ivory only a little bit more "bulge". His Function is only , to "fullfill" the Velocity-gaps of the IVORY.

The Pianoteq solo i don´t like....but the idea of a complete mathematical model of a simulation of real piano is great! So it has really calculated 256 Steps of Velocitylayers, calculated in real-time by playing. This is Perfect)
But the sound itself is thin - an for my ears not close to a real , woody and "living" Piano.

If you can load this 2 VST-Instruments (the IVORY and the PIANOTEQ) in a VST-host, and play it simultaniously......you will be surprised. The reaction of this combined instrument is much more sensitive, and you get much more inspiration by this combination. For me, it was a big improvement - on the side, it gives me also much more motivation for exercising.)))

Because the Pianoteq is a mathemetical and live-calculating Soundmodule, the Processor can play this without problems simultan to a Wave-based Pianosampler like the Ivory.

Now with the GarritanSteinway:
Ok - i tried a crazy Idea.....could a PC with Dual-core CPU (only 2.4GHz) and 3 Gigabyte Ram PERHAPS also play simultan two (2!) wave-based Pianosamplers on the same time???????
Yes........he can do this. With 2GB i had problems, also with Vista. But with 3GB and WinXP it works very well. I can play 1 to 3 hours without any Klicks or missing Tones.

I love the Sound of the GarritanSteinway. The SustainResonanz, the sympatheticResonance and the AmbienceHall i take all from the GarritanSeinway. The TONE is High: -3 Mid:+10 Low:0
WET: circa in the middle, DRY: circa to 80% of the highest position.
(!!! This adjustmenst are only for the combination with the other Pianos....NOT for playing solo!!)

In Combination with the Ivory, the Pianoteq and the GarritanSTeinway the sound is very woody, full, sensitive - but on the other side it has much more Punch and aggressive character than the Garritan played solo.

I like very well this combination. BUT this means not, the Garritan isn´t perfect. I think, it is solo very very good.....only i need a much more better Keyboard, and possibilities to adapt my Velocitycurves better to the Garritan. With my "midrange" Digipiano from Casio, and this rudiymentary Velocity settings given by the Garritan software, i can´t find a setting, that give me all the Dynamik. I wrote this in my first message.

PROBLEMS:
No Light without Shadows..)))
The biggest Problem of my Solution is this: 3 different Pianos played on the same time has the effect, that you can hear sometimes DISSONANCES!!
Sometime a littel bit detuned, or in the worst case: you hear clearly - oh, this are 2 pianos........

Pianoteq: choose temperament EQUAL, don´t change UNISON WIDTH and let OCTAVE STRETCHING on 1.0 .

Garritan: Tuning stay on EQUAL.SCL , Finetune stay on 0(zero)

Ivory: Tuning to STRETCH!!! Finepitch: -2 cts

Less problems...but not possible to avoid some dissonances.

Ok - for the END..( puuuuhhh.....) , i like my solution. But - like or dislike the sound of a piano everytime is also a quest of taste.
For me - i hope on a update of the Garritan. I think, if i could achieve all the range of the velocitys from the GarritanSTeinway, (without to buy a new Masterkeyboard - or a new Digipiano with a very good Keyboard built in), it will be in Future my favourite played solo - without other VST´s together. The Demo´s showing more of the Possibility than live-playing on a not perfect keyboard.

So my conclusion is: The GarritanSTeinway for me is the best samplerbased Software i ever heard. The playability is for too much peoples limited, because they can not adapt their middle-quality keyboard on the velocity ranges of the software - and so the playing is or tooo loud and not possible of soft-sensitive playing, or (with a more flat volocity adjustment in the software) they hearing only the half of dynamik wich would be possible .

I hope you all are content with my answer. AND i hope, that Garry isn´t angry to me - because i wrote so much about other software))

Greetings to all,
robmuc

[robmuc05]

Here annother example additional to my first message, annother Midi-file recorded one time with the GarritanSteinway solo, and the second time mixed in a VST-host together with the Pianoteq and the Ivory and the GarritanSteinway:

Original GarritanSteinway:
http://home.arcor.de/rob.muc/PianoSampler/01%20-%20%20-%20Nocturno_Nur%20Garritan.mp3


And here mixed with two other Pianos -but playable together this 3Pianos on the same time in a VST-Host:
http://home.arcor.de/rob.muc/PianoSampler/01%20-%20%20-%20Nocturno_3%20Pianos.mp3


PLEASE: If you would like to hear more times, load it down to your PC (Right Mousebutton - Safe under). Don´t hear it again and again from my space - because my Traffic is limited, and if the Traffic is more than 3GB, i have to wait to the next month for again free 3 GB Traffic from this space. Thank you very much

Rob aus muc - robmuc))