Midi Controller Keyboard -- Advice?

[rwayland]

I am considering a second controller keyboard, but there seems to be some things I don't know. Can I, with Sonar and GPO use two keyboards simultaneously? If the keyboard has aftertouch, can it be disabled? Are most keyboards now equipped with standard size keys?

My aim is to use my system as an organ (minus pedals, a later consideration). Much organ work can be done on a two manual organ (or even 1 manual), so I can do without pedals for now. I tried a few of the Bach two part inventions and WTC preludes today, using my single keyboard, and am once again hooked on organ. I have not played one in a long time, and this seems a good substitute.

Under consideration: M-Audio Keystation 61 ES, Oxygen 61, Yamaha PSR-E313.

Will some kind soul eliminate my ignorance?

Richard

[marce]

Sonar can use all the keyboards you want, the limitation comes from hardware. The keyboards you are considering appear be usb, so, that will be easy to connect.
About aftertouch, if it cant be disabled in the keyboard, you can disable or filter it in Sonar, i guess. Someone using Sonar can say about this.
From the list of possibilities you are considering, i believe that the first two are more apropiated, the second has more controllers that is good if you will be using them, but the first has the basic wheels that GPO use. The keys appear the standard size
Hope it helps.

[buckshead]

I have a Cubase and Sonar LE, together with two keyboards, full size and mini. Although both these applications accept two keyboards they appear to be unable to select two different MIDI channels.
They will both play on the selected channel or either one can do it but I can't see how you can play two different sounds. I used to have an organ app that seemed to have two manuals but can't see how that works either. You need to check with the manufacturers of the keyboard

[marce]

I have a Cubase and Sonar LE, together with two keyboards, full size and mini. Although both these applications accept two keyboards they appear to be unable to select two different MIDI channels.
They will both play on the selected channel or either one can do it but I can't see how you can play two different sounds. I used to have an organ app that seemed to have two manuals but can't see how that works either. You need to check with the manufacturers of the keyboard

It depends how you connect both keyboards. If you connect the second keyboard to the first one, and then it to the computer, the data is sent like it was a single keyboard (at least your second keyboard allow you to select a diffrent channel, the data will be merged).
But if you have already a keyboard, and then connect another one trough USB, you will have each keyboard connected to a diffrent port. You can select each midi port in the Sonar preferences, and record the play of each keyboard separetely, even if they send the data trough the same channel; they are channels from diffrent ports. I can do that with cakewalk Music Creator that is a very light edition of what is Sonar.

[buckshead]

But you can't play both at once on different sounds, OR can you? Only one can be selected at a time surely, or am I missing something. I couldnt select more than one midi input.

[marce]

But you can't play both at once on different sounds, OR can you? Only one can be selected at a time surely, or am I missing something. I couldnt select more than one midi input.

Yes, you can! Im not a Cubase user, so i can help there (but im 99% sure that you can do it with it, just need to ask in their forums)
Here is how you can do it with Sonar or any other Cakewalk program:

Go to "Options" > "Midi Devices": There select the two diffrent ports where your keyboards are connected: (the screenshot is in spanish, but can help anyway)
http://stashbox.org/191121/MidiDevices.jpg

Now you need to create two diffrent midi tracks, in one select as input the port where is your keyboard "A" connected. An like Output the VSTi or instrument you want. Now do the same with the second track, select as input the other port where your keyboard "B" is connected, and select another VSTi as output (or the same VSTi in other channel)
Here is where you select the midi input (screenshot):
http://stashbox.org/191124/Tracks.jpg

It seems complicated, but if you take some time to explore the possibilities, you can even split your keyboards and play 4 instruments or more in diffrent ranges, combinations, etc.

[rwayland]

Well, thanks for all the input. I think the problem is now resolved except for plopping down the cash!

Marcello, you have made it clear enough for me. I have also checked with my Sonar manual, and Cakewalk forum, but this cleared it up nicely. Now I need to select my keyboard. The two M-Audio keyboards both have USB connectors, so I don't expect to need an interface. I just need to be sure that they have full size keys.

Richard

[sammy24]

Just be sure u have a good setup with your two keyboards, esp. if u plan to play them both at the same time. (meaning, u should make sure you're playing in a comfortable position, long-term.) Also, if u're looking into two-tiered keyboard stands, make sure it is compatible with the specs of your keyboards (width, weight, etc.).

[rwayland]

Thanks, Sam. That is good advice, and something that has been in my mind for a long while. I think I have something figured out using what I already have. The tiered racks I have seen don't look like they would do the job.

Richard

[sammy24]

yeah, i was only able to find one tiered stand that seemed to fit my needs, after much research, and unfortunately i found out that its lowest setting is still too high for any normal sit-down playing (since the thickness of my yamaha p-70 is around 6-8 inches). I haven't really figured out a solution as yet, but i'm working on it. Gotta protect those wrists, back, etc. Good luck with your setup.

[rwayland]

yeah, i was only able to find one tiered stand that seemed to fit my needs, after much research, and unfortunately i found out that its lowest setting is still too high for any normal sit-down playing (since the thickness of my yamaha p-70 is around 6-8 inches). I haven't really figured out a solution as yet, but i'm working on it. Gotta protect those wrists, back, etc. Good luck with your setup.

What I need is a stand that will allow the additional keyboard to overlap the original keyboard, and rest almost on it. That will provide a configuration similar to most organs. My current stand is a Quik Lok, not the x-shaped, but rather like an open box. I also have a Quik Lok s-shaped stand, which I tested last night, and there is sufficient overlap. Plenty of height adjustmust on both, so I think it will do well. Now I have to convince myself that it is time to part with the money -- really, not very much, but on a retirement budget, cost is a serious consideration.

Perhaps I should post a picture so you can see what I have in mind.

Richard

[buckshead]

Look at computer desks, you know the sort you buy for home computers, I use an old one from work with steel shelving stuff bolted to the back. This gives me computer keyboard, mixer, two music keyboards, monitor screen and tower below. Takes up very little space, think outside the box

[rwayland]

Well, Derek, your solution would be fine if it is of correct height, or adjustable, and the upper keyboard can overlap so that the back of the lower keys are nearly directly below the front of the upper keys. and with a very small vertical separation. My two stand arrangement sounds good mainly because I have them already, and it looks like it will work. I will test it shortly. I also have a hospital bed table, long, which will do the job. Since my keyboard will be light, it might be a better choice. Main thing, I think, is to steer away from stock tiered stands.

Richard

[marce]

An easy and regulable way:

http://www.herrajes-ruedas.com.ar/imagenes/otros/hd_mensulas_estanterias.jpg

but this ones look usefull:

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/regular/6/8/3/227683.jpg

http://www.musicalinstruments4life.com/sites/jross/_files/Image/Stand%20Black.jpg

http://www.woodworkersworkshop.com/graphics10/frankes-keyboard-stand.jpg

And finally, for playing four hands ! :wow:

http://www.pssl.com/images/ProdImage02/500/Z-502.jpg

[buckshead]

I actually use the shelving system shown in Marce's top photo on the left, steel uprights with cantilever brackets at 1" spaces- only mine are black:wow:
I fitted them to the back of an old lightweight computer desk with castors and have everything in one place - even some books, can't figure where to put the music when I play it as the screen is in this place.

[rwayland]

Well, here is what I found to be the simplest layout. The oxgen 61 is very light, the fatar is sturdy, on a very sturdy stand, has nothing on top that I use (just split and octave). The layout is near perfect for me. I would not use the oxygen for playing heavy handed piano, but I don't do that.

Richard

Keyboard Setup (http://www.box.net/shared/xcjy6ssbvf)