Benefit of Protools?

[zquarles]

Hey all - I\'m considering getting a DIGI001 setup at some point and am curious...I currently use SoundForge with a host of plugins and have been very familiar and happy with this product.
What all will I gain with Protools? I know this is a stupid question because I know it\'s the industry standard and all that, but I would like to be able to justify spending the money by saying it will greatly benefit me and can do a million things on the \"mastering\" side of things that Sound Forge can\'t.
I don\'t want to get it just because it\'s the \"standard\".
Thanks for any info!
-zq

[Francis Belardino]

Sup ZQ?

All I want to talk about is the pure wav file editing abilities via Pro Tools.

I work in Post and like all post firms Pro Tools is the only choice for editing.

If you, like we, spend countless hours of dialog/music/sound efx editing for film/video
again, there is no other choice.

As far as being a power Giga user and scoring...

Pro Tools, is a MIDI sequencer but I do not feel it is as power as say, Sonar. Again, I am referring to only the MIDI side.

If you, like me, use MIDI mainly as one would use Microsoft Word and then burn all tracks to audio and then plan to do multi edits 05 15 30 60 second spots...then go
Pro Tools.

But be warned the Digi 001 does not sync to SMPTE (MIDI Time code, yes) and you only have 8 tracks.

Last. Digi OO1 does not like HP computers. They state that on the digi site

[This message has been edited by Francis Belardino (edited 02-20-2002).]

[zquarles]

Does the Digi001 run on Win2k?

[KingIdiot]

I personally never saw the benefit of the 001.

Unless you were using it as an introduction to ProTools. Or are completely familiar with the PT environment and want a \"on the side machine\". For me, though, if you aren\'t going \"all the way\" to Mix/24 and/or DSP Farms, it just isn\'t worth it. The sound in those systems is a jump up from other softwer/systems but not in the PT LE/RTAS, systems if you ask my ears.

Like Francis said. If you are doing multi edits and short spots, PT is a good choice.

If you are doing Giga Mixes down to seperate tracks and then mixing. I suggest Vegas. Especially if you are familiar with SoundForge. Vegas has its draw backs too, but I\'m I\'m amazed at how quickly I get work done in it when I actually do work in it http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

One needs to consider the reason that PT became an industry standard. there was nothing out like it about 5-6 years ago. If there were as many interface options as there are now back then, PT would have probably still came out on top because of integration, but not nearly as much of a standard, if you ask me.


Anyhow, the benefits are all dependant on what you need it to do. There may be a cheaper and more viable solution.

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Really...I am an Idiot

[zquarles]

I am very familiar with Vegas as well...And I usually do the majority of my mixing within the SONAR environment...which is simliar to Vegas in many ways.

I\'m thinking I might just update some of my plugins (i never have picked up any of the Waves sets) and stick with what I got for the time being.
I\'ll probably go in the Protools direction later down the road, however...

[This message has been edited by zquarles (edited 02-20-2002).]

[KingIdiot]

Get the Waves Bundle!! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Hyperprism is pretty fun as well. Not the greatest, but the amount of variety makes it useful as a \"goto\"

I honestly think it might be a better option to look into getting another Giga Machine and getting more outputs. Then using a good digital mixer to do all your work in real time.

I love mixdowns in a computer and all, but am more and more getting frustrated with FX latency.



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Really...I am an Idiot

[zquarles]

King-
Just curious if you use Vegas for sound design as well...I mostly use the Sonic Foundry products right now for all Sound FX, dialogue, etc, etc. That\'s where I think the DIGI001 might be a pretty good investment.

[Francis Belardino]

Gota agree with the King.

First. GET WAVES! They rock!
Second. Vegas is very cool for Giga scoring but, the screen can become sloppy and hard to work in...compared to the wav Pro Tools handles audio editing. Use Vegas and Pro Tools FREE as a more hard core audio editor.

[zquarles]

What\'s the best WAVES bundle for the money? Keep in mind, I\'m kinda poor.
;-)

[jubal]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zquarles:
What\'s the best WAVES bundle for the money? Keep in mind, I\'m kinda poor.
;-)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I got the Native Bundle at GuitarCenter for $349. On the box it says it comes with L1 Ultramaximizer, SuperTap, Q10 ParaGraphic EQ, C1 Parametric Compander, S1 Stereo Imager, DeEsser, and TrueVerb.

I am such an idiot (no offense King)!! I didn\'t even realize it came with the Renaissance stuff as well. Yeah, the Waves stuff is solid...

[KingIdiot]

I dont do much in the realm of Voice recording. I\'ve heard PT is the way to go for that....Though I wonder If Id completely agree. I mostly hear about its \"auto rename region\" feature. I use wavelab for autosplitting. Yuo can split files out to a name from a Text list. you can do this with signal threshold for auto splitting or you can make your own markers then split out as a list.....and in typing this I may have come up with the most ULTIMATE way in spliting multiple tracks at the same point!....Surround sound autospliting!!! Or multiple mic autosplitting!! Or even splitting one at specific marker points and having the others split at the same point

Yah I\'m a badass...woowoo ;P

If I were to do more voice over work again. I\'d do it in a combination of Vegas and Wavelab.

Mixing multiple voices to picture in Vegas, and doign the auto split of the files and naming them with Wavelab. I\'ve got a really good system that I\'m getting down with splitting in Wavelab. Would be great for VO tracks that aren\'t synchd to picture.

for SFX design I use sound Forge and Wavelab. Wavelab is great for Plugins and chaining, SF is great for certain processing techniques. Vegas is great for FX design too. tho most people dont use it for this. Its great with multiple crossfades. In fact I can build some really TINY TINY loops with a combination of Vegas and Wavelab. Or Wavelab and its montage editor.

Wavelabs got a great montage setup for multitracking/mixing, but its not as robust as Vegas/Protools.


The vegas windows can get hectic, but once you know the hotkeys its really fast to work in. The auto crossfade is a godsend. FX send envelopes are awesome for SFX. Its similar recorded automation but works with \"rubber band strips\" that you draw in from a point to point basis. I bought Vegas 3.0 but haven\'t installed it yet, just too busy to tempt myself with toying around with new software and any new features. So I\'m still using Video 2.0.



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Really...I am an Idiot

[Francis Belardino]

\"I dont do much in the realm of Voice recording. I\'ve heard PT is the way to go for that....Though I wonder If Id completely agree\"


King,

Trust me. We do on average 32 hours of narration/VO editing for picture...per week.

We would lose $$$ prospects/clients if I said to them, \" Yea, we edit with Veags, Sonar, oh yea and Sound Forge too.\"

For serious dialog and narration editing...
PRO TOOLS ONLY!

Once agin said with that big ol\' smile http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[KingIdiot]

Of course you\'ld lose ****loads of clients. They all have the same bias towards Protools as it being \"the industry standard\", but thats not the point I was trying to make http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

I was pointing out that it may not be the only route to go.

If clients are stuid enough not to realize that someone to get the work done with other gear, then does that really make the purchase of PT based on what it can do in terms of audio, or more of a purchase based on name to keep clients?

Dont get me wrong I think Protools Mix|24 is an awesome rig, and the software is more than capable of doing VO work. It just doesn\'t make it the rig that everyone needs.

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Timo Heil]

>>>We would lose $$$ prospects/clients if I said to them, \" Yea, we edit with Veags, Sonar, oh yea and Sound Forge too.\"<<<

Is that because the industry expects you to use Protools (for whatever reason...probably just another elitist attitude?!) or could that work really _not_ be done with another software? Here in Germany more and more professionals (and I really mean professionals!) switch to native solutions, such as Steinbergs Nuendo, which give you much more flexibilty for less money (if you can live with a latency of let\'s say 3 ms). Protools (the hardware) is totally overpriced in my eyes. That is also one of the reasons why many doubt the need of Protools. It seems that many PT users just want justify the need of PT because they spent loads of money on it. No offence intended, but there seems to be a clear tendency towards native solutions over here.

[Francis Belardino]

Hey guys.

I forgot about Steinberg Nuendo. That is a monster system as well. Also, I don\'t want to sound as if I hold stock in digidesign but Yes, there many things that can be done out side of Pro Tools but not with the same level of intelligence in the operating system.

Unless you have used Pro Tools, I cannot begin to explain.

In addition, I was speaking about the way the PT interface deals with splicing and dicing audio and the way it manages audio files and fade files.

And I do not believe that Pro Tools is being used form NY to LA and beyond in many, many, many MAJOR post houses just because they want to protect their investment.

I bored of this topic. This started out as a simple,\" what is best to editor for audio/music/dialogue\" to Pro Tools is all hype and we don\'t use it and if you do its because you paid too much for it.

Please.



[This message has been edited by Francis Belardino (edited 02-20-2002).]

[KingIdiot]

Well...

I actually used ProTools, and got rid of it http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

mind you it was before Mix 24, but I feel that it is more the way you use the software than anything.

and yes I know many guys that do use Protools and two reasons keep popping up. They are \"used to it\" and that they ARE protecting their investment because clients like the name.

Its not a boring topic http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif It jsut shouldn\'t be in this forum http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Anyhow, Zack is looking for options, sometimes in the less $$$ range, so jsut saying you\'re not gonna get the best if you dont get PT isn\'t really making him feel good http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

Seriously.

You can do jsut about anything with all the different software options. PTLE isn\'t really my first option for SFX and VO work. Jsut because I dont think its worth it. If however you have the budget and are looking at PT Mix|24, go for it.


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Really...I am an Idiot

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 02-20-2002).]

[Francis Belardino]

Das cool http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

To be honest. Im just in a mood. I had an 8 hour session today... and now, I see wav files when I close my eyes.


ooooh, look at all the colors http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[Simon Ravn]

King, ProTools is brilliant. Extremely fast to work in and you only use maybe 4 function keys and your mouse to control \'everything\'. I wish Cubase had such an intuitive and fast audio-implementation.

[KingIdiot]

Simon.


Cubase sucks for audio...we all know that http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Its setup like a \"real studio\" and while that seemed really intuitive at first, its freaking limiting and stupid in the end.. Who the hell wants to wwade through allthose freaking windows to adjsut EQ?

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Joris de Man]

I personally couldn\'t live without Protools; I use it a lot for soundfx editing (for games, among other things) and mix and master my music in it once I\'ve recorded and sequenced everything in Logic. Protools does have midi but it is very basic and not particularly useful.
Somebody mentioned only getting 8 tracks with a Digi001? You\'re doing something wrong; you should be able to get 24 mono tracks!!! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif
Good things about Protools are:
-Editing..I don\'t know anything like it that edits this quick and easy..then again, I have been using it for quite a while. Tried Nuendo, couldn\'t get into it, although I liked its fast waveform zooming better.
-Plugins; there are some amazing plugins out there that sound great; bombfactory (emulations of old favourites such as 1176, Fairchild compressor, Sansamp, Joemeek), McDsp (Analog Channel, EQ, Compressor, great sound&performance), Lexiverb (lexicon reverb), TCtools..ah..the list goes on. Most of these are available for RTAS (host processing) too.
-Excellent automation including all paramaters of the plugins.

I recently switched to TDM and use it as a mixer now as well (synths and giga coming in directly on 3 interfaces into protools), and it works well with Logic too. This means you can apply plugins on your synthchannels, and record multiple synths at the same time (32 channels, to be exact)

Then again, I work on a Mac, so who knows what I\'d use if I worked on a PC....

If you need to edit lots of audio or do soundfx editing, this is definitely one way to go. No SMPTE on the LE version isn\'t a huge problem, if you work with quicktime or avis. You can import the movie and sync to that (in some cases I had a gfx artist burn a SMPTE counter on the movie).

Just my two cents.........


Joe

[zquarles]

Well this is just a classic case of \"different strokes for different folks\" I wanted to hear from all sides regarding and boy did I get \'em!!
http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif
I reeeeeeeeally appreciate the comments for both sides of this issue. Thanks guys!

I guess I\'m just in a state of flux right now, because there are several things that I need to purchase to get my studio where I would like it to be and since I\'m on a limited budget, I just don\'t know what I should get first. I have a lot of software (giga, sonar, soundforge, translator, etc, etc) but only a few sample libraries and plugins, so I\'ve just been going back and forth about what to update.
I *wish* Digi would support WIN2k with Protools FREE, that way I could get an idea if I like the interface and so forth...but from my previous experience (which is limited) it seemed to be fairly intuitive if you\'ve ever had any aural experience at all.
I guess on paper I\'m considered a \"professional\" since I do this for a living, but there is so, so much I feel I need to learn to make any kind of an impact if and when I decide to go freelance. I guess that\'s the perfectionist in me...always thinking what I do is crap and everyone else kicks my *** ! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Sorry this update is a bit...discombobulated, I\'m just kind of \"brain-dumping\".

I just need to buy everything I want and have it only cost $5.00. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

[Timo Heil]

>>>>And I do not believe that Pro Tools is being used form NY to LA and beyond in many, many, many MAJOR post houses just because they want to protect their investment.

I bored of this topic. This started out as a simple,\" what is best to editor for audio/music/dialogue\" to Pro Tools is all hype and we don\'t use it and if you do its because you paid too much for it.
<<<<<

The point I was trying to make is that many studio nowadays ask themselves if Protools is really worth the investment, i.e. why should you buy it if there are other solutions that do the same job - maybe even better - for less money (hint: Nuendo). Don\'t get me wrong: it\'s not me saying this full of envy because I cannot afford a PT system anyway. I\'m more or less quoting many professional engineers who more and more seem to doubt the necessity of buying a PT system. If a loss of clients is a point for you, then this is of course an important issue. But one cannot base a technological discussion on that.

[Simon Ravn]

Timo, no offence, but I would never trust to work in an environment like Cubase or Nuendo for crucial, customer-based, tough deadline-dependent work. I tried Nuendo, couldnt get the hang of it, didn\'t like the layout - looked too Cubasish. There\'s a reason why people use ProTools, I can see that myself. It has no comparison to other programs, which is a shame since I dont really understand how hard it can be to implement its intuitive way of working in programs like Cubase and Logic. But I guess Steinberg and Emagic dare not change the GUI too much with the userbase and all. I should point out that when I talk about ProTools here I mean ProTools on a Mac - I am not sure how great it is on PC. And I am talking a TDM system. It is rockstable. I had never had to ask anybody for help except once, when I had accidentally plugged a superclock into a wordclock connecter http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Which caused the system to halt. So that was my fault. Apart from that, I have been working on it for a couple of years now, with 4 hours of introduction and that\'s it. It\'s so easy and, dare I say, bug-less... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[Francis Belardino]

Simon,

All the points you made about Pro Tools are dead on. I was just to exhausted to say it that well. Long day. Could you imagine a world without SHUFFLE MODE? If you edit dialogue, like I do - it would be very scary.
------

One of our clients is, MBNA Bank of America. We do all of their in house, sent global, message audio. The record about 60 minutes of audio per session. They request that all breaths between words are omitted ... that cannot be done, and done on a time schedule of one day, without Pro Tools.

Not to mention script changes flying off a fax machine all day long.

Pro Tools wins.

Lets not forget about sound design and efx editing. Just the fact PT uses a region list makes this so much better then any other program. Ever try to deal with 800 wav files in one session ... say in Sonar?

It\'s certain death. Sonar names files by code ... good luck finding them. When you are doing sound design for a client and he wants to pull up (car door slam version 6) that was recorded yesterday...just pull it out of the region list or do a key search.

As all PT users know...Pro Tools is almost instrument like in nature. The feature and power are endless.

Last. The studio I am employed by for 3 years now uses Pro Tools on 4 macs. In the 3 years I have been there, PT\'s running a sold 40 hours a week, not one crash!!

Thanks all. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

BTW, SOV will be at the studio waiting for me http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif tomorrow morning http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Francis Belardino (edited 02-20-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Francis Belardino (edited 02-20-2002).]

[zquarles]

What\'s SHUFFLE MODE?

[KingIdiot]

Zack

Shiffle mode is like cutting and splicing in one movement.

It allows one to globably affect tracks with an insertion or a cut.

In vegas its similar to ripple edit where you insert audio at a given point and the track moves all its data over in the timeline. Where as with Ripple edit off you paste over existing audio.

The one thing missing with vegas, atleast I haven\'t cehcked it may be in there is that Its more difficult to get the tracks to be affected globably when pasting in one track. Its easy to do it on one track, but multiples, while it can be done, isnt\' as easy as it is in protools (thats not to say its difficult).

however region lists, nope, I can get that going.

I agree with all thats been said about Protools in how easy it is and how it works, however I DO NOT think its the only option. I\'ve always heard the same thing from all PT users about \"imagine life without....so and so\" like its the equivilent of Imagining sampling without hard disk based Streaming..... but its not. Its about learning to use the software you have.

now, I\'m talking with software like Vegas and Samplitude

not Sequencers with audio support...like Cubase and Logic.

I know some people using Nuendo, but I haven\'t really checked it out enough myself to know what it can and can\'t do.

I\'ve used PT and it is a great system, but not worth the money if you have other options and need to budget.

BTw why I mean its not worth the moeny is that I always consider PT as the Mix|24 system and not 001, Also I only consider it a MAC option. Just a bad habit I guess. I guess I think there are so many more cheaper and viable options on the PC, but on the Mac , since there aren\'t any, you must go PT for multitrack audio editing. Bias Peak for two track edits. how anyone can get by on small sample editing without Peak I\'m not sure. Its the equiv of Soundforge/Wavelab on the Mac, while PT is more like Vegas/Samplitude. They are two different types of animals, but both equally needed IMO.

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Really...I am an Idiot

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 02-20-2002).]

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 02-20-2002).]

[KingIdiot]

Aha...

It can be done!

I was using basic CRTL-V for pasting which is why tracks weren\'t being globably affected. Using the hot key for Paste Insert (CRTL-Shift-V) makes it all happen.

So YAY! It is easy

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Really...I am an Idiot

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 02-20-2002).]

[Francis Belardino]

Well said! BTW, There is a reason why it\'s called Pro Tools http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Haha,sorry just trying to get in yer face a bit. I thnk we all need sleep http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Back to the samples.

King, I know you work like a dog and we love ya for it...so, when is GOS update 3 coming out?

hehehehe, agian just messin wit ya http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Good night all.

[This message has been edited by Francis Belardino (edited 02-20-2002).]

[zquarles]

AHA! Okay I gotcha.
thanks!
I haven\'t used my copy of Vegas for awhile, I\'ve been so wrapped up in SONAR...I guess I better get back into it...

[zquarles]

Francis-
YES WE NEED SLEEP - I\'m still at work, testing this @#$@#!@#$ game!!!!!!!
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[donnie]

I\'ve been up and down this road MANY times and to me the best bang for the buck would be to go with Logic 5, a Logic Control Master Pack, and a Logic Control XT. The whole thing would set you back around $2200 tops. Sure beats $22,000!!

Donnie

[KingIdiot]

Zack

heres a review with alot to be said about PT 5

I remember this one from a while ago

check out this place for lots of info on PT.

I wonder if there is a\"power user\" book for vegas. I know there is one for Acid and SoundForge, but hmmm.. could be a good thing to look into.


More than anything. LEARN THE SOFTWARE YOU HAVE. I spent alot of time over the past couple of years realizing I spent more money for features in different software that I really didn\'t need, or could have done in the other software.

Dont buy PT or Vegas or Logic because people like them, buy them if you need them.

If you plan to base your recording around voice Over work, then yah I\'d say go out and get a PT rig. It will save you some time because its got some features that are tailored to that type of work.

If you aren\'t then look at getting other software that might give you more flexibilty and options and is less money.

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Really...I am an Idiot

[zquarles]

Well, I\'ve used Vegas on and off for about two or three years now. I\'ve used Sound Forge solidly for longer than that and I\'ve been a cakewalk guy since version 3.0. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

I have thought about picking up those \"power\" books just to give me a few more pointers about the programs, because I\'m sure there\'s a ton of features in SONAR that I haven\'t touched yet.
Let me know what you think about Vegas 3.0, I\'ve been thinking about upgrading...might have to break down and do it.

[Francis Belardino]

Again, well said. Now, Im going to sleep http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

BTW, I use Vegas and Sonar for Giga scoring... Sonar for the MIDI power and Vegas, for the sound designer approach to it all. Plus, is it just me or does vegas never seem to run out of tracks http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

peace

Oh yea, Sound Stage, Accustic Mirror and Waves for plug ins. When will Gstudio support WDM so we can use real time plug ins with giga? I will find, SOV and the answer to that in the morning http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Later guys

[zquarles]

btw; where\'s that review at?

[zquarles]

Nite Francis, keep me posted on how you like SOV!!
http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[KingIdiot]

HOLY CRAP!

Thank the internet god for this discusion

I spent a few more minutes delving into parts of Vegas i didnt\' know existed.

I can safely say that I will now not be afraid of doing a 3000 line of dialogue video game again! I could do the whole thing in a day! WOOHOO A combination of Wavelab and Vegas is going to be my saviour http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif


Zack sorry
http://www.harmony-central.com/Reviews/ProTools5.0MIDI/00index.html (\"http://www.harmony-central.com/Reviews/ProTools5.0MIDI/00index.html\")
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Really...I am an Idiot

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 02-20-2002).]

[zquarles]

King-
Thanks for the review!
DO TELL about this vegas experiment you are working on. I\'m wrapping up a project that had about that many lines in it (along with several in different languages) and I don\'t want to do it through Sound Forge ever again.
Perhaps whip up small tutorial?
http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[KingIdiot]

hmmm

Well.

The technique is very simple in Wavelab and Vegas. Its hard to explain but a simple process.

Especially if you\'re given a Word Document with file names and dialog.

I think the only way to go through it is in tutorial form. No time to do that yet http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

just got off the phone with Gary about all kinds of editing techniques.

I think I should offer my services as an audio editor/wave splitter to sample library developers http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif In exchange for free libraries or something!

It really depends on how the dialog\'s been recorded, and what the application of it will be.

If it were for a video game that didn\'t have any sync to picture dialog I could do it all in wavelab very quickly. i\'d use its montage window to monitor playback and continuity.

bah I tried explaining it to Gary over the phone, and I jsut kept talking more and more and I think I jsut realized that its all in my head and I cant put it on paper/explain it. not because its difficult, but because its such a brainstorm since one event branches into multiple things that can be done. trying to explain every option in a linear way just seems useless.

I\'ve just crossed over into something that \"*I*\" consider power user territory. I give up...i\'m gonna have some Chimmay and try and turn my brain off from this damn audio crap.


BTW, the new thing I found was Vegas\' Event list and the fact aht I could paste event names from a Text file....but thats useless sicne it doesn\'t auto region on its own

However in combination with Wavelab and auto splitting and some hot key learning in vegas it changes into something very useful..

but still I would be able to do the type of work I need to do in Wavelab. Soundforge if I needed to but I hate its auto region set up

I\'ve created a really neat little trick in Wavelab today tho. because it means no extra render.....thought at 24 bit and 32 bit floating point.....whos gonna notice?

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Really...I am an Idiot

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 02-21-2002).]

[Timo Heil]

KingIdiot wrote:
>>>now, I\'m talking with software like Vegas and Samplitude<<<

Your are definitely right. Especially Samplitude is widely used in the broadcasting business here in Germany.

BTW: I\'m also I huge fan of Vegas. Does PT really offer a better GUI for splitting/fadin/crossfading files? It\'s hard for me to imagine that it can be done in an easier way. In my eyes Vegas has the most intuitive GUI of all audio-programs I\'ve seen (regarding Protools I\'ve only seen Protools Free so far. But if the GUI of the \"higher\" versions is basically the same then I did not like it at all. No comparison to Vegas. Samplitude is also more difficult to use than Vegas.

[KingIdiot]

Timo

Its really what you learn

PT is VERY easy once you figure out all the hot keys and option clicks.

Vegas is great for PC-Philes. There is a keyboard command for jsut about everything and mouse wheel commands which I used to use alot. Still I didn\'t take any time to learn the keyboard shortcuts and to fully realize how the app worked. Recently I got a little deeper into it and found all kinds of cool things. I\'ve heard lots of complaints about the windows and how cluttered it gets, and I can agree with them to a point. The fact that one can completely customize their window set blows me away. Keyboard shortcuts to close and open sections you aren\'t using is also cool. What needs to be done (if it isn\'t already haven\'t checked) is the option of saving pre configured windows sets and bringing them up via keyboard shortcuts.

EX. Alt-6= jsut audio and video for synching
Alt-7= just audio window for editing


one other thing thats missing is shortcuts for solo/mute tracks.

I used to love vegas because it was the only app that could use Acoustic Mirror as a Buss FX. But the that sort of mixing is Tedious.

What I love about PT is the DSP farm. better latency FX http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif. Then again DX plugs can have lower latency its all based on your audio buffer....still...

Anyhow the more and more I use vegas the more I realize how powerful it actually is.

Thats the same with PT, the more you use it the more you realize how powerful it is.

Again it all comes down to two things,

one being Are you coming in from being used to another system? If so then thats a major factor in determining how you\'ll use or how you\'ll like another piece of software.

the second being, how well you learn the software. One needs to dig in to find out how cool somethings actually are.

Sound Forge becomes more and more frustrating to me because of simple thigns that aren\'t implimented.

Wavelab suprises me at how little is actually \"in\" the program compared to SoundForge, but I always tend to use Wavelab for alto of the cool things it does much better than SoundForge.


------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[tomhartman]

The 001 system is capable of 24 tracks, not 8. It\'s a killer system, and if are that picky about stuff no one will EVER hear,get an outboard A-D. It\'s a great system, with 90 percent of the editing features of the full blown Pro Tools systems. I did a lot of difficult music jobs on my trusty 001. Deal of the century.

I now use a full blown rig...Mix Plus. I have used Digital Performer, Studio Vision, Logic, and Cubase, and none come even close to the ease and slickness of the Pro Tools interface. It\'s not that you can\'t do the work on many different systems. It\'s a question of interface design, stability, and using something that is universally accepted as the standard. Yes, it became the standard because it was first out there....and that should tell you something. Digi has been a forward thinking company for a long time. All you have to do is look at the mess of windows and ugly interface decisions the others have made, then open Pro Tools, and see the ease of which the workspace is defined. Time is money. Pro Tools is fast.

Sorry for the rant, but you couldn\'t find a bigger fan of Pro Tools. I could not have made the music and sound projects I\'ve done professionally over the last 10 years without it. I started with it when it first came out, and have watched it grow.

I am a Mac user. I have no idea what the 001 system is like on the PC, but if it\'s as stable as the Mac version, it is a no brainer. JMHO.

[tomhartman]

\"BTW: I\'m also I huge fan of Vegas. Does PT really offer a better GUI for splitting/fadin/crossfading files? It\'s hard for me to imagine that it can be done in an easier way. In my eyes Vegas has the most intuitive GUI of all audio-programs I\'ve seen (regarding Protools I\'ve only seen Protools Free so far. But if the GUI of the \"higher\" versions is basically the same then I did not like it at all. No comparison to Vegas. Samplitude is also more difficult to use than Vegas.\"


Don\'t know Vegas. But you will always be able to find some feature in another program that is cooler than what you\'re working with. You have to look at the overall picture. The GUI of Pro Tools is the same on all versions. It\'s about as easy to use as things get.

[Francis Belardino]

Hey there. Just for the record; when I mentioned 8 tracks only...I was refering too Pro Tools free http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

So there http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

BTW, Got SOV. Very pad like in many patches but clean and pretty. There is a TON of sound
living on those 5 CD\'s. Yikes!

PS. Tom. Pro Tools is my only choice. I cannot agree with you more. You nailed it. It\'s not what it does but how it does it.

I can\'t begin to reflect how many times Pro Tools has saved me countless hours in the editing suite. When you work in Post production, things always change. Most session have multi versions and scripts/scens are always changing. \"Stick in that B roll stuff, could ya?\"

Peace

[This message has been edited by Francis Belardino (edited 02-22-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Francis Belardino (edited 02-22-2002).]