Battle of the Sequencers - AGAIN

[scores4film]

I\'ve been using Cubase VST for some time now. Initially on a PC then a Mac. The pc version worked great. The mac version is buggy in some really fundamental ways. I\'m looking at Digital Performer and Logic right now. Sonar is a distant 3rd (is that even available on MAC??)

What are my friends out there using and why??

Thanks

C

[donnie]

Well I never thought I would say this but I have made myself learn Logic and I am starting to really love it. It is WAY more powerful than Cubase. I still know DP better and would recommend it but Logic is very cool.

Donnie

[Joris de Man]

Yep, Logic is the one for me too, although they\'re VERY sloppy with deadlines. The upcoming Logic 5(which looks fab, btw) is about half a year late, but that\'s about most of the criticism I can give it.
It\'s really fast, and the abillity to mix and match different audiostandards together (ASIO, Direct I/O, TDM, Native) is great.
I like the fact that it\'s quite programmable (making your own screensets and transformsets, creating your own audiosetup in the Environment window etc.) and rocksteady.
I use it on the Mac though, and must admit I liked the Windows version a whole lot less (eventhough it\'s supposed to be the same).
There\'s a rumour that Logic 5 or an update coming soon after it will contain unlimited undo...yieah!!! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Cheerio,

Joe

[timzydee]

I don\'t hear much, if any, talk about Pro Tools on this forum. Isn\'t supposed to be like an industry standard? How does it compare?

[Simon Ravn]

ProTools really becomes great when you have a Mix24 or Mix24plus system - which means a system that costs maybe $20.000 - I guess not many people here offer that kind of cash \'just\' to get some DSP power. Also it works better on Mac than PC and is moer supported on Mac. I use it at work and it is rockstable. I think it has crashed twice in two years.

Never tried its MIDI features though.

[thesoundsmith]

Interesting you should mention ProTools, Simon. A client I worked with 30 years ago in LA just moved back into town and has been hiring me to do some keyboard work. He uses PT Digi001 on a new G4, and I use Digital Performer on an upgraded B&W Mac G4. He had been proud of his carefully engineered rig, and how stable it was-but yesterday it crashed 5 times in 4 hours!

I was going to buy a Digi rig so I could have him come to my studio and save him some money (and make me a little more!) but I won\'t run DP and PT on the same box (OMS vs FreeMIDI is a recipe for total disaster.

My Mac runs DP 2.7 on System 9.0.4 and works grat on everything but DP, which crashes sometimes not at all, sometimes every half hour! I have to do my audio work on my Mackie HDR24/96 instead!

To be fair, I have so many apps running on the Mac (not at the same time http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif ) that the OS has become destabilized (that and some leftover system files from upgrades since System 5...

But while I love Digital Performer (mainly because I know it quite well), I wonder about Logic, and it\'s stability/power etc.

I plan to create a Giga Gig box (laptop with GS160 and some PC sequencer for live gigs) and learning Logic could make for an easier transition between systems.)
Dasher

[Kobb]

I would imagine that most people around here are heavily interested in sequencing power as well as digital audio, and Pro Tools isn\'t really known for its MIDI capabilities. I believe that Logic, Cubase, Digital Performer, and Sonar (Cakewalk) all started off as sequencing programs that have grown digital audio appendages. Therefore it makes sense that folks who really took to MIDI sequencing and keyboards in the late 80s and early 90s would have a history with these products.

Just speculation from someone who hopes to join the fray. If all the financing works out I would like to turn Logic 5.0 and the Logic Control into the centerpiece of my studio. For what I would like to do, I think that sequencing is vital to getting the most out of my Gigastudio setup.

[timzydee]

I\'ve just started using Cubase VST myself. Can you tell me if the following is unusual?

I\'m using the program along with Gigastudio on the same PC. When I \"disable audio\", the midi end of things works just fine, but when I keep the audio enabled, I can barely play three midi tracks without it getting sluggish. The problem is that I need to record the midi tracks but can\'t without the audio enabled. Is the problem due to the fact that I\'m streaming samples and recording on the same disk? Are newer versions of the program better at this?

[timzydee]

Now that I think about it, the same disk thing doesn\'t matter, because it gets sluggish just playing back without recording.

[Bardstown Audio]

For sequencing, I never liked Pro Tools. I always use another sequencer on a different computer. For audio, Pro Tools has always been number one for me. Last month when Digidesign announced their new HD \"High Definition\" systems which do 96 and up to 192 k sample rates, I initially thought what a bunch of bull hype. I was always very content using my PT\'s Mix TDM system with Apogee converters on the front end.

It just so happens that my local area Digi dealer was by my studio this afternoon and evening and brought one of the new Pro Tools HD 192 systems along and set it up in my studio. He was here for over twelve hours and just left at 2:00 AM.....twenty minutes ago. I WAS ABSOLUTELY AMAZED as to how GREAT this new system sounds. Digi\'s new 192 audio interface and converter box sounds better than my Apogees. We spent several hours doing A/B comparisons with this new HD system and the Digi legacy TDM Mix system. At the lower sampler rates...44.1 and 48k, there was not much difference between my current system with Apogee converters, but at the higher sample rates of 96 and 192k, it was AWESOME!!! The difference was not at all subtle!

I do not want to imply that the older Digi Mix Plus systems with Apogee converters do not sound good, but this new 192 audio interface and converter box at the higher sample rates really is something else! There is much more definition, clarity, depth, smoothness, and stereo imaging.

Kip
Bardstown Audio
www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

[john g]

REal technopeasant that I am, I use Cakewalk Home Studio (69 bucks Can). Why this cheapo sequencer? Cake\'s tempo editor allows \"drawing\" in the tempo, and thus permits super subtle and precise tempo editing. Just out of curiosity, does Logic do that? I know Cubase doesn\'t.

J.G.

[thesoundsmith]

john g,

I am looking for a super basic low-overhead PC sequencer for running sequences created in my \'real\' sequencer, Digital Performer.

Can you give me a bit of detail on what Home Studio does NOT do? Specifically:

What is the resolution, i.e., clicks per beat-24? 96? 480?

Does it accept ALL midi controller numbers?

Does it support bank switching in patch changes, or just \"patch 33\"

How many tracks/midi ports?

Thanks.

RE ProTools - I hate Digidesign, for reasons unrelated to this discussion. But I have a client who will pay me a lot more than it will cost for a Digi001 package, if I don\'t have to have a separate dedicated box for it (there are already four computers active in my studio, I\'ll add one more for a GS rig (And save my 333 for email!) but there is no room for another.

PT does have a strong client base, and as much as I hate it, the other major studio in town just got the Digi001, so I\'ll need it to play keep-up http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/frown.gif

But I still vote for Digital Performer for #1, though I\'d like to get some time in playing around with Logic.

Dasher

[Robert Raguel]

At the risk of being Booed off of this forum, I use nTrack-Studio. It is excellent with all the basics and uses industry VST plugins like CUBASE.

It does everything I need it to do, and it\'s cheap ($42-64). It\'s from FaSoft, their web site is at www.fasoft.com. (\"http://www.fasoft.com.\")

Now I\'ll shut up and go away.

-- Robert

[JamesGrote]

As someone who is completely uninformed about other audio sequencers, what are the big advantages of something like DP over Cakewalk Sonar?

I\'ve used Cakewalk stuff forever, yet have always wondered if the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Are there significant features that Cakewalk lacks that maybe I just don\'t know about? Is DP just considered more stable?

Not to start a battle here, just curious as to what I might be missing using Sonar.

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James Grote
http://www.BrainFeverMusic.com

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JamesGrote:
As someone who is completely uninformed about other audio sequencers, what are the big advantages of something like DP over Cakewalk Sonar?

I\'ve used Cakewalk stuff forever, yet have always wondered if the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Are there significant features that Cakewalk lacks that maybe I just don\'t know about? Is DP just considered more stable?

Not to start a battle here, just curious as to what I might be missing using Sonar.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


What you\'re missing is about 90% of all the dxi and vst instruments and plug-ins that are not available for the Mac.

Max

[Z6]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robert Raguel:
At the risk of being Booed off of this forum, I use nTrack-Studio. It is excellent with all the basics and uses industry VST plugins like CUBASE.

It does everything I need it to do, and it\'s cheap ($42-64). It\'s from FaSoft, their web site is at www.fasoft.com. (\"http://www.fasoft.com.\")

Now I\'ll shut up and go away.

-- Robert<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I\'m not booing. I wasn\'t planning to buy a sequencer, but this seems cheap enough to get my feet wet.

I have a similar question to the others related to the expensive packages:

What are you missing if you use this software? I went to the website and it looks pretty good.

[JamesGrote]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maximus:

What you\'re missing is about 90% of all the dxi and vst instruments and plug-ins that are not available for the Mac.

Max

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don\'t understand what you mean. Or are you referring to what is missing in DP compared to Cakewalk Sonar? Sonar supports DXi and indirectly supports VST plugins with a VST/DXi converter.

Just want to minimize any confusion on my part.


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James Grote
http://www.BrainFeverMusic.com

[Timo Heil]

John G. asked:
>>Cake\'s tempo editor allows \"drawing\" in the tempo, and thus permits super subtle and precise tempo editing. Just out of curiosity, does Logic do that?<<<

Yes, Logic can do that. It offers several kinds of tempo editors: tempo list, graphic Tempo and tempo operations (can be used e.g. for ritardandos). I prepared a screenshot to show what it looks like: http://home.tiscalinet.de/timoheil2/daten/logictempo.jpg (\"http://home.tiscalinet.de/timoheil2/daten/logictempo.jpg\")

[This message has been edited by Timo Heil (edited 02-20-2002).]

[KingIdiot]

Cubase allows \"Drawing\" in tempo as well.


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Really...I am an Idiot

[Simon Ravn]

King: although it\'s a pain in the butt... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[KingIdiot]

really?

I always foundit pretty simple. Turn the snapping grid off and go to town

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Really...I am an Idiot