Maurice Jarre?

[Jake Johnson]

Reading some of the discussions about film scores, it occurs to me that I\'ve never seen Maurice Jarre mentioned in this forum. Is he no longer listened to, or is he just not mentioned because he came to his fore before sampling? (I don\'t compose for film, but seek good music where it is found.)

Is anyone familiar with Jarre\'s score for The Last Tycoon (an adaptation of the Fitzgerald novel)? A great, strange, some might argue slightly intrusive, but beautiful score.

I ran across these two sites today, the first for Film Score Monthly, the second about Jarre. My apologies if both are already well known to everyone here:
http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/features/ (\"http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/features/\") http://www.shef.ac.uk/~cm1jwb/jarre.htm (\"http://www.shef.ac.uk/~cm1jwb/jarre.htm\")

[Simon Ravn]

I always had a love-hate relationship to Jarre\'s music. Mostly \'hate\' lately. The scores by him I know best are \'Gorillas in the mist\', \'Witness\' and \'Dr. Zhivago\' I guess. And I dont think any of them are fantastic. He is an OK composer but many are a lot better, IMHO.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jake Johnson:
Reading some of the discussions about film scores, it occurs to me that I\'ve never seen Maurice Jarre mentioned in this forum. Is he no longer listened to, or is he just not mentioned because he came to his fore before sampling? (I don\'t compose for film, but seek good music where it is found.)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Bernard Herrmann rarely gets a mention either. But everyone can hum the trumpet parts from Chicken Run and Star Wars.

Go figure. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Jake Johnson]

Well, I don\'t want to sound as though I hum \"Laura\'s Theme\" in the morning. (Remember the Ray Conniff version? I remember it playing on my mother\'s radio, in between A Hundred and One Strings versions of \"Smoke Gets in Your Eyes\" and \"Sentimental Journey.\" No wonder no one listens to Jarre...)

On the other hand, watching Dr. Z. right now, (I saw it happened to be on television after I had made the first post above), I\'m struck by how the music suits the movie (which is not a good thing, admittedly): big Russian. Even \"Laura\'s Theme\" sounds more appealing if condidered in this light,as a big schmaltzy faux Rachmaninoff theme. (And there\'s a scene at a Rachmaninoff piano concert in the film.) And the movie builds the theme song very slowly: we get bits and pieces of it early on, so it doesn\'t seem to suddenly sweep done on us the way it does if we hear it alone, out of context. (But yes, it\'s still awful.)

Watching the movie, I\'m struck by how little music there is. Very restrained. Mostly it enters when there are real musicians playing at a party or club. Scences I assumed had music have none: the calvary attack on the marchers in the streets of Moscow, for example.

But I still want to hear from anyone who has impressions of the score for The Last Tycoon. Very different stuff. French and edgy.

[Maarten Spruijt]

It\'s just in what time you place this. People go with their time.

Composers like Hermann had a GREAT influence on scoring. Things certainly wouldn\'t have looked (read \"sounded\") the same without him.

There are lots of rel. young people on this forum and they just tend to listen more to composers from their time.

No use to criticize that.

[Z6]

Hey, let\'s not forget Lawrence of Arabia. A terrific score, that helped to inspire a whole generation of filmmakers.
Also, The Year of Living Dangerously is marvelous (marvelous film, great score).

I\'d also want to mention my personal favourite: Ennio Morricone, from Spaghetti to The Mission to some of the most sublime tunes in Cinema Paradiso. Cinema Paradiso is (for me) the most beautiful score ever written.

These guys could blend, it seems, with any theme or action, across many genres, and then layer deeper dimensions to the drama.

I wouldn\'t want to upset anyone:-) but I could never listen to John William\'s music outside of a movie or pageant (A Fanfare too Many). I also think his stuff is incredibly \'derivative\', I could hardly believe Thomas was wondering whether he should use an orchestration trick of Williams\'. William\'s, like Lloyd Weber and Barry Manilow (eek!) are The real Raiders.

Some of the \'old guys\' produced music that transcends the medium and lives apart from the original canvas for which they were designed.

Not trying to start an argument or offend, but I just don\'t see Williams\' music living outside the movies they were written for.

[MrArkadine]

Now that you mentioned Maurice Jarre, how about the score to No Way Out? I think that was him...It\'s the only major score I know that used FM (Yamaha\'s synthesis technology), so extensively. (Ok, Ryuichi Sakamoto and Wild Palms is pretty cool too, and I\'m sure I\'m missing a bunch of others)

Now that we\'re sharing guilty pleasures http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif, how about the score of Ennio Morricone for Days Of Heaven? (With Carnival des Animaux Aquarium included).

And, my favourite tear dropping sensitive score of all time...Sophie\'s Choice (Marvin Hamlich, which also did the score for The Sting if I remember well)

[Simon Ravn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Z6:

Not trying to start an argument or offend, but I just don\'t see Williams\' music living outside the movies they were written for. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny that his music IS used outside of his movies so much isnt it....

[Damon]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bruce A. Richardson:

Bernard Herrmann rarely gets a mention either. But everyone can hum the trumpet parts from Chicken Run and Star Wars.
Go figure.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Big Bernard Herrmann fan here http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif. I have his Twilight Zone scores on CD that were redone and highly recommend them for study purposes.
If it weren\'t for guys like Herrmann, soundtrack music might have stayed completely traditional and not quirky and weird http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif. Herrmann bent the rules and I LOVE him for that!
Bruce, ever hear the redone stuff of his Twilight Zone scores?


[This message has been edited by Damon (edited 02-18-2002).]

[Z6]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Simon Ravn:
Funny that his music IS used outside of his movies so much isnt it....

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, you\'re right. I suppose it is. I suppose that I don\'t think it \'lives\' too well outside of the movies or pageants; that\'s all.

Maybe his film music is \'too\' effective? I can\'t disassociate it, while I can listen to Jarre or Morricone without \'seeing\' the movie.

[Simon Ravn]

Funny, I have it the opposite way. Williams compositions are probably the most complex done in moviescoring these days so I find a lot of little interesting details, as well as the fantastic themes, to keep me coming back and listening to the same score again and again. Of course there are some tracks that I skip, especially if the movie is one with a lot of actions scenes - action cues are not always the most interesting thing to listen to outside a movie, although Williams has done a great deal that DO work outside the movie (Belly of the Steel Beast from Indy 3 springs to mind as one of my favourites).

Most other composers\' scores I simply dont find very interesting to listen to. Now, I realize I could start a war saying this, but I really don\'t understand the fuzz about Jerry Goldsmith. I think his orchestrations are often dull and his compositions terribly simple. He is best at thrillerstuff - his more romantic music is pretty bad.

Then there is Danny Elfman who on the other hand is very original and has his completely own style - he is very high on my list although some of his \'weird\' music works better in the movie than on a CD (To Die For for example).

[Z6]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Simon Ravn:

Then there is Danny Elfman who on the other hand is very original and has his completely own style - he is very high on my list although some of his \'weird\' music works better in the movie than on a CD (To Die For for example). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I absolutely agree about Elfman; he has such a huge imagination. I wonder if that has anything to do with his \'lack\' of \'formal\' training? His music seems completely free and without any affectation.

I read a great interview with Elfman on the EMU site. What amazes me about these guys is the time constraints they work under; often given just a few weeks to score a whole movie.


I\'m hoping that technologies such as Gigasampler will allow a lot more people to \'bubble up\'. Right now, it seems as if there is a handful of \'spots\' available. We keep seeing the same names over and over (much as I admire his music, it seems as if Zimmer gets about half of all hollywood production).

Elfman is also the final proof that great composers and orchestrators don\'t have to be \'literate\' (in the \'traditional\' sense). Modern tools allow composers to write what they want without necessarily having to learn to read music.

I\'ve seen some arguments about \'reading\' and \'literacy\' here but I think it\'s important to note that traditional notation is quite blunt and requires an enormous amount of \'shared\' knowledge, while midi allows an infinite variety of almost personal notations.

[Simon Ravn]

I don\'t like the whole MediaVenture way of doing music at all. The personal touch is gone. Everything coming out of there sounds about the same and you have no real clue who actually wrote what cues on a soundtrack. I think MV, if any, contribute to making filmmusic a less accepted artform than it should be. Imagine if everything was done by companies and not persons. Filmmusic would get about as high marks for personality and character as a donut bought in a 7-Eleven.