Stradivari Violin Issues

[illustrationism]

Hey.

I'm looking for how to turn on the "Note-On Velocity", and I'm having the hardest time finding it... I must have played around for about 2 hours the other night. Haha...

I'm on a Mac using Kontakt 3.

Thanks,
David

[rbowser-]

Hello, illustrationism
I'm not sure what you mean by turning on "note on velocity." With a velocity sensitive keyboard, which most are, you automatically get a constantly changing range of velocity values.

Maybe you're asking how to get volume variations? If so - note that The Strad has its volume controlled by MIDI Controller #11. That's the CC value out put from an Expression pedal. It can also be drawn in via the Piano Roll View of a sequencer.

Randy B.

[illustrationism]

Hi.

I do not have an expression pedal, unfortunately. I am using a velocity-sensitive keyboard, and it's just not working like it does with other sounds I have. With the Stradivari Solo Violin, it seems to ignore the velocity.

As far as the "Note-On Velocity", I'm talking about the one referenced in this video around 1:28 -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-m6dv98uqY

Unless it's something strange that Kontakt is doing... Though I've used Kontakt with other instruments and the velocity worked just fine.

Any help would be great.

Thanks,
David

[rbowser-]

Hi, Good to hear from you again, David.

To be more precise, I understand the term "note on velocity," I just wasn't sure what about it wasn't working for you.

You have a velocity sensitive keyboard, so that is how you'll be controlling the articulations of the Violin, but not the volume.

You said this isn't working like your other instruments. That's correct. Most instruments use velocity for volume, but The Strad does not. It's not "ignoring" velocity though - in The Strad, velocity determines the nature of the note's attack, slow bow to fast.

I'm glad you found the You Tube demo - In it, you see everything you need for controlling the instrument. That coupled with the manual that comes with The Strad, you really should be getting it figured out.

Notice in the video, there's an inserted PIP showing the use of the Expression Pedal. That's the only way to get variations of volume with The Strad. Watching the PIP, you can see how the characteristic volume swells on every note are controlled that way.

I don't have an Expression Pedal either. I program my keyboard's wheel fo CC11 when I want to play The Strad. Then, in the MIDI editing window of Sonar (Piano Roll View) I can fine tune the resulting CC11 data.

You probably have something of the sort, so that you can get the instrument playing the way you want.

Randy B.

[illustrationism]

Hi rbowser.

You mentioned the expression pedal and Mod wheel. I have neither. My keyboard doesn't even have the jack for an expression pedal.

In the video, I can see that he's able to control the volume using his velocity-sensitive keyboard. I want to know how to accomplish that, as it's not doing that by default.

Thanks,
David

[rbowser-]

Hello again - OK, here's some things you really need to do:

--Listen to what I'm saying. This will be the third time I've explained to you that VELOCITY DOES NOT CONTROL VOLUME in The Strad.

--Look at the video more closely. The insert shot is showing that it is his FOOT controlling the volume via his Expression pedal.

--Read the manual that came with the instrument. If you don't have the manual, then it can't be a bonafide copy of the instrument. The manual explains everything I've mentioned in thorough detail.

Without doing the above, you won't get anywhere with the library, because you're insisting that it work in a way that it doesn't.

Apparently you don't work with a Sequencer, like Sonar? With software like that, you can fill in all the gaps you may have in your hardware keyboard. Like I mentioned I don't have an Expression Pedal either, but I can program my keyboard's wheel to send the NECESSARY CC11.

If you're trying to play The Strad in real time like in the video demo---that's a very lofty goal. And the first thing you'll need to do is get a keyboard like what you're seeing in the video. WIthout such a keyboard, you will never get a proper sound out of The Strad.

I guarantee you, 100% of what I've told you is correct.

Randy B.

[illustrationism]

Hey, no need to be a jerk. You obviously did not watch the part of the video I'm referring to, ergo you are misunderstanding. It's ok, I'll explain again for you.

Since you seem to think I'm an idiot and are quite capable of expressing yourself in those terms, I'll try an dumb things down on a step-by-step basis, so listen carefully to what I'm saying.

- Go to this video and fast-forward to 1:28 (1:26 is the closest). The screen will go black and read "Control: Note-On Velocity"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-m6dv98uqY

- Watch the clip for about 10 seconds (1:28 - 1:38) as it previews the use of this guy's touch-sensitive keyboard and its effect on the velocity.

- Note that there is no implication that he is using the expression pedal during that sequence. You were watching the wrong sequence.


If you don't know how he's doing that other than saying "He must be using the expression pedal", then just say so, there's no reason to be hostile. By the way, I'm using Logic Pro, but I'm new to it and to Kontakt.

[Nickie Fønshauge]

Hey, hey, hey. You're the one who is hostile. You are the one calling people "jerk". So ease off and read Randy's messages carefully. Afterall, he is the one who knows the Stradivari, not you.

CC#11 does control volume/timbre. If you don't have an expression pedal you can either draw the controller data in your sequencer's piano roll editor or maybe program one of your keyboard's sliders/knobs to send CC#11 data, if it has this feature.

Note ON velocity controls attack strength (legato/portamento strength, when two notes overlap) and that is what you see/hear in the clip, you refer to.

[illustrationism]

I called him a jerk because he was being a jerk. He can call me one right back if he wants. lol

Listen, no hard feelings here. All I'm saying is that what's being shown in the video between 1:28 and 1:38 does not happen for me, and I want to know how to have it happen. What rbowser is saying is that the expression pedal controls volume. Yes, I understand that, and that's not my question.

He is misunderstanding what I want to accomplish and getting frustrated at what is basically his lack of understanding about what my real issue is. The problem is a very simple one, which for some reason is not being communicated upon very well.

Since the Note-On Velocity controls attack strength (as is demonstrated) then I want to know how to activate / use that feature. Please remember that this is not happening for me automatically. The Strad Violin may not use velocity to control volume, but what I want to know is how to achieve what is shown in that small segment of the video. That's it.

You can flaunt your superior knowledge of the Strad all day, but if you can't tell me something that the manual doesn't already tell me, it's not helpful.

[illustrationism]

Ok, I figured it out...

In Kontakt, you have to add a modulator (or edit a modulator) for "velocity", and have it effect "volume". Right now, many of the modulators have MIDI CC 11 controlling volume, if you change them to "velocity" instead of MIDI CC, then you'll be able to adjust the volume using the velocity.

I ordered one of these, which should help tremendously with timbre (since the touch-sensitive velocity obviously isn't the best way):
http://www.zzounds.com/item--KORNANOKONTROL

Thanks for the help you guys offered. I hope someone, someday benefits from this little bit of information on Kontakt. :P

[Nickie Fønshauge]

If you change any of the internal modulators (or add new ones) you will not be able to reproduce the video.

To reproduce the Note ON velocity clip, you refered to, issue 1 CC#11 MIDI message - say CC#11 = 80 - and start playing. You will then play with a constant volume, but varying attack (determined by velocity). That's what happens in the video.

If you have no other way to issue a C#11 message, you can use my MIDI Control Panel (http://foenshauge.dk/software/musik/MIDI Control Panel.exe) for it (Windows only).

[rbowser-]

Hello again, illustrationism- It's unfortunate you felt I was "hostile" in my reply. When I was writing for the third time to say that you're trying to make The Strad function in a way it wasn't designed, I felt like I was in a "Twilight Zone" moments --calling into black space and not being heard. No hostility was intended - I was simply trying to get you to hear me.

Nickie is one of the most knowledgeable, helpful people on the Garritan Forum. Thanks for trying to help out here, Nickie.

illustrationism, what both of us are trying to explain is that The Strad was programmed in a particular way. Re-routing Velocity to control its volume will not get you the kind of results you hear in that video. You are mistaking a variety of note-on attacks as volume change.

You have not "figured it out" with that approach.

To play a passage pp, for instance, you need to use a combination of very low velocity (engaging a slow attack envelope) and a low CC11 value. There you'll have a bow slowly attacking the string, coupled with a low, soft volume. Then, to emulate what a Violinist does, you will want to vary the CC11 value continuously during the sustained note.

The only way to engage the cross-morphing of samples is to play The Strad as it was designed. To force it to play differently would be like turning a volume knob up and down, not at all the same continuous change of timbre this instrument is capable of.

You don't have the minimum requirements for playing the instrument. I again strongly recommend that you spend $50 on a used MIDI keyboard equipped with a programmable wheel. I also suggest that you use a sequencer.

If you have a legitimate copy of The Strad, it comes with a detailed manual which has all of this information in it. There's no way you could read the manual and still be as in the dark as you are about how the instrument works.

But there are probably people all over the country using soft synths improperly, and wondering why the heck they can't get them to sound like in the demos.

You can lead a horse to water, but sometimes the horse doesn't even know when it's thirsty.

Randy B.

[illustrationism]

Nickie: Thanks. You're right, and that helped. I misunderstood a little bit what the video was showing. But because I am currently lacking a mod wheel and expression pedal, and I want to play around with the Strad, what I did is an acceptable alternative for now.

rbowser: You're right, I did not read the manual front to back. I bought it from someone used and it did come with the manual. However, that's just now how I work - I prefer a hands-on approach and referring to the manual as needed. The manual didn't mention anything on the note-on velocity. If I missed it, then I missed it, and I'd like to know what page it's on.

Of course I want to use the instrument as it's intended - that's why I bought the Korg nanoKONTROL USB MIDI Controller. It has 9 programmable MIDI nobs and sliders. Granted, it's not as elegant as a wheel, but it'll still function like one.

I could only suppose that it makes you feel superior to talk down to me by repeating quippy sayings (even though you quoted it wrong), but that's OK with me, honestly. I've been writing music for about a decade and I'm familiar with a myriad of software. I recently switched to Mac, so there's obviously a lot of new software to learn, including Kontakt and the Strad. I'm certain that I'll learn a great deal about the Strad and Kontakt, and this has been yet another learning experience, thanks to both of you. My hobby continues to provide me entertainment. =P

You could say that any way to make music, whether you're using instruments "as they were meant to be used" or not, is still legitimately making music. You could also say that the Strad software is not how the violin was meant to be played. But I'm not saying that. Music is not about technical prowess; music comes from the soul. I suppose this is getting off-topic though.

Thanks, both of you, and I really mean that. When I've learned to use the Strad well and started writing music with it, I'll post something here for you.

-David