Melodyne

[Michiel Post]

Dear friends,
Want to change your life?
Click below and experience something you never have believed possible...

http://www.celemony.com/melodyne/demodownloadingWindows.html (\"http://www.celemony.com/melodyne/demodownloadingWindows.html\")

[PeterRoos]

Ssounds really revolutionairy!

Check all the demos at http://www.celemony.com/melodyne/Demos.html (\"http://www.celemony.com/melodyne/Demos.html\") and read the notes

FUN!!!

This must be a great tool for editing sample libraries as well.

King, jump in!

[KingIdiot]

Actually I\'ve been a fan of Melodyne for a while. i had the demo version on the Mac and did alot of cool things with it. Tho it was kind of buggy and not perfected yet.

Also its like freaking 900 bucks. I\'m waiting for the VSTi version to comeout that will be amazing.

Anyhow, yeah Melodyne is pretty sweet. Its old news to me ;P MWAHAHAHA

seriously tho. What I want to see is a good formant Shifting NFX plug in that reacts to Pitch Wheel information! Imagine realtime bends that stay in formant.

Melodyne will read Midi info soon tho and I\'ll be able to devise a way to process files after the fact http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif


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Really...I am an Idiot

[Michiel Post]

Hi King
I spoke with the author of Melodyne and I\'m afraid the VST version will take another year or so.
I have the Mac version of Meldoyne and it\'s rock steady - never crashed my Mac! It is a kind of a processor eater (and memory!). But the results are incredible: your pitch bend with real-time shifting formants is no point in Melodyne. You can even correct the tempo, formants and pitch in real-time. This is only true for recorded monophonic lines, but then again...it sounds really amazing.
I did some sweet tricks with piano and organ samples (making a piano sustain for 3 minutes...)and I\'m sold.

Michiel

[KingIdiot]

Michiel. I found melodyne just felt really slow, not so much that it crashed. It is a very cool app

the formant shift thing is something I\'d want done while I play. Not something I maually adjust in a file. Melodyne doesn\'t accept MIDI...or does it? I might have missed it on the MAC. didn\'t use it everyday during the demo period and lost out on some time to fiddle.

I REALLY like the software but also find new limitations. I think I\'ve just gotten to far ahead in the \"I want this\" category. I think I will be happy in another 3-4 years when there is more going on in the frequency domain

Anyhow, this demo wont load on my laptop... grrr

how stable is the beta? I want to install it on my desktop tomorrow but I\'m not really into putting something that may dump it. Especially since I\'m working on a project at the mo\'

I really dug the stretching too. It works extremely well on sustaining instruments. Vibrato instruments can get quirky it really depends on the instrument and the response curve. I dont think I would have used it to do the Grand Detache edits. Maybe a little for the piano files. Which was somehting i was thiking of doing.... maybe I will now.
what it will be fantastic for is to get multiple variations of staccatto notes and the like. Alsoi for my work I need to build VERY VERY VERY small loops and using melodyne to stretch out stuff to REALLY long samples will give me more looping options since the tones will be more consistant. I\'m sure I can get into single digit cycles on any instrument loop with Melodyne, that are TINY http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Michiel Post]

You need DirectX 8 to run the demo. Apart from the problems that DX8 may bring to your soundcard the demo is stable. It lacks the export function (so you can just use it to play and perhaps capture the output). Stable? I\'m running it without crashes.
It has a strange feel when editing; it takes a little time to respond to certain instructions. But all in all it works smooth (but not fast).
I agree that this program will be a diamond when it\'s a available as a plug-in for real-time playing.
I\'ll suggest your midi inputs for adjusting real-time changes to the developers.

[KingIdiot]

Michiel I\'ll pop onto the Beta Mailing list.

I am running DX8 on this laptop. Had to install it for SF5 and Acid 3.0 AND Vegas Video. Maybe its a newr version I\'ll check it out and cross my fingers that It doesn\'t screw up the laps performance. Damn Microsoft.

If I ever pick up the actual software, I wonder if I should get it on Mac or PC. I hate transfering files back and forth, but I wonder which one will perform better in the long run.

I\'ve been a fan of formant shifting ever since I got my VS 880 HD recorder and then when I moved up to the 1680 even more so. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Melodyne has, by far, the best algorithms I\'ve played with. I haven\'t played with the VariPhrase setup from roland, but it its based on their VS formant shifting then I lliked Melodynes better. I still find that other plug ins are very usefull as shifters. However Melodyne has that great timee stretching as well. It is by far the best app out there for this kind of stuff and I hope it gets more attention and grows to be more than a multitrack mixer the way it is. Its very possible that it could become a main part of a DAW. POssibly when processers can keep up with it.

If you do speak with the developer regularly ask if, when and how MIDI will be implimented. I know they want to be able to export MIDI data similar to what \"digital Ear\" does. however if they could get Melodyne to respond to a MIDI file thats related to an audio file thats beeen rendered from the MIDI, they could automatically adjust formants http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

or better yet. Play back the MIDI with using one \"sample\" of a note

think about that for a second...

grab a solo performance audio file. Use Melodyne to get the pitch and volume data, then have melodyne reproduce it with a sample full with Formant shifts and its \"mock\" vibrato. (Tremelo and pitch and formant still wont recreate vibrato IMO....but its much better than all so far and would probably get by...if the vibrato is already in the sample thats even better http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif) As you can see I\'ve been very excited about this apps prospects for some time http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Michiel Post]

Hi King,
The vibrato issue is not quite solved in Melodyne in my opinion. Melodyne enables you to amplify or attenuate the existing vibrato. But when you time stretch a sample very long the vibrato becomes useless (artificial as it\'s no longer time-related to the original performance). You then would want to add new vibrato, right? Melodyne let\'s you remove the existing vibrato, but the creation of new vibrato isn\'t implemented. I guess this is a small step for the programmers as the transition for tone to tone (between the pitches) can be influenced at will. So the vibrato must be a similar process.
Mac or PC? Why not both! I use Melodyne on a Mac and work with samples on my network drives (both PC and Mac). This is no problem. My Mac is older than my PC\'s so it\'s slower. Then I use ProTools Mix+ on the mAc so I can easily transfer takes from ProTools to Melodyne and vice versa. When you\'re multi-track editor is on different machine the transfers take longer (network). But for the rest I see no advantages in any of the two platforms.
Midi is implemented. You can export your melodies as midi files. Export them in a sequencer and build controller data on that.
The midi data isn\'t always exacly what the melody is, there are some musical differences. Obviously Peter is using a musical interpreter for the midi data.

When you bounce the Melodyne soundfile to your sequencer you can use all sorts of VST2 plug-ins and VSTi\'s to fiddle with the new melody.
But real-time!!! That would make you a super magician with sounds! I will talk to Peter soon and talk about this. They are working very hard on the Windows version. I know they focus on performing artists who want to use samples life. When the program runs under VST2 that will be a big step forwards.
Cheers,
Michiel

[fmfgs]

Hey King - are you serious?
A software that takes a polyphonic audio file and generates a midi file with pitch and volume data for the voices? If thats true I look like a idiot - I keep on saying this comes ways after decent speech recognition...
I\'m following the development of melodyne since the first announcement and still wait for stereo. but polyphonic?
fmfgs

[KingIdiot]

Yup polyphonic.

Its now way perfect. Still its pretty amazing for what it does.

http://www.intelliscore.net (\"http://www.intelliscore.net\")


Also
http://www.digital-ear.com/ (\"http://www.digital-ear.com/\")

does monophonic lines pretty well.

I only have the demos of both, and am considering picking up both soon. I like Digital ears CC capture better than Intelliscore so far. but Intelli score will do poly.

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Really...I am an Idiot

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 02-11-2002).]

[PeterRoos]

nice gadget to get that HP tune right

(sorry King, couldn\'t resist, haaha!)

[KingIdiot]

http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/tongue.gif

yah now I need to go buy the damn CD http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Haydn]

KingIdiot,

How accurate have you found these programs (Intelliscore) to be - 90%? I wrote a bunch of music where the original scores got lost and I\'d hate to spend the time to pickoff the notes. I have the original multitracks for the recordings so I can isolate each part on most of the recordings.

[Robert Kral]

Michiel Post & King:

This thing sounds amazing!! Ptiy about the price but it does sound very useful and lots of fun.

You need Direct X 8 to run it? What\'s Direct X 8?

[KingIdiot]

HA!

It cant really be determined in percentage Haydn. It really depends on the music. Intelliscore respondsw pretty well to poly music of one instrument. Start throing in more and it gets hectic. Also it only spits out the MIDi data to one channel. So you\'ll have to pick apart the midi anyway. However for a starting point its pretty good.

Now about monophionic instruments I\'m pretty impressed with Digital Ear. Again its not perfect, but its a really good start.

Robert, Melodyne is pretty damned cool. I first heard about it from this board no less. Somewhere around a year or so ago before even the Mac version was released.

Direct X is part of Microsoft\'s Direct Media set up (I believe). Its part of Windows, but gets broken....er... revised every year or so.

If you use a PC for anytype of Audio you should be familiar with the term Direct X plug Ins.

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Really...I am an Idiot

[KingIdiot]

Michiel,

About vibrato. The fact that Melodyne changes the time related value of Vibrato can be used to ones advantage. you can use it as a form of expression. Somewhat the same way one can use a rate control on an lfo, only you use a real vibrato and adjust its time related value. You cant ever go back to a full non vibrato sample with Melodyne. But there is enough room for some good expressions http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif.

About both platforms. I\'ll be fine with getting both so long as I dont have to spend 900 dollars on both. If I purchase it and get both versions or get a second liscence for a small price then its not an issue. but 900 is a large amount of money to spend twice on the \"same thing\".

does it export Controller data as well? I believe the demo version I had could export the melody to MIDI (tho disabled), but it would not recognize/export continuous pitch data and continuous volume data.

I found other software that will (even one that can somewhat recognize POLYphonic data in an audio file), but it would be nice if Melodyne did.

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Michiel Post]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robert Kral:
Michiel Post & King:
This thing sounds amazing!! Ptiy about the price but it does sound very useful and lots of fun.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Robert,
The price is relative to the expected sales. They\'re not likely to sell this program to 10.000\'s of users. They did invest years of programming in it.
On the other hand, how much did you pay for a good reverb unit? Likely more than $ 1.000.
Consider the costs when you need to re-do a melody line or vocal take just because the melody was just 5% wrong. Or harmony parts. How much does a backing vocalist cost per hour? When this tool can solve such problems for you you\'ll have it back in no time.

[thesoundsmith]

Michiel,

While I don\'t disagree in concept, my CLIENTS pay for the poor backing tracks! (Assuming I never make a misteak, which I NEVR DEW!) http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif

But seriously, if the real version works as well as the demos, it certainly IS worth the price. Beats the heck out of Antares!

Dasher

[Deep White]

Hi Guys,

I just did a little test on the Melodyne PC beta. I loaded a vocal track, \"define melody\" to find out its pitch and then transpose the whole track up 1 key.

The result: ok, but not \"great\" to me, at least not surpassing Waves\' UltraPitch. What was bad was that the result had serious problem at the end of certain \"clips\" and all vibrato parts. These things make it totally unusable to me. Was there anything I did wrong? since you guys got great result with it?

p.s.: It took me awhile to find out that the demo version cannot process 24bit audio....

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Arys Chien
Composer & Musician
Deep White Studio
Taipei, Taiwan, R.O.C.

[Michiel Post]

Hi Arys,
It\'s a beta, give the beta its time. I use the final Mac version and it beats any software in any aspect!

[This message has been edited by Michiel Post (edited 03-03-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Michiel Post (edited 03-03-2002).]

[KingIdiot]

Waves ultrapithc is one not a formant shifter I like much.

It filters out alot of the high end to keep the formant shifting steady. A simple crossover and mix back in would have made the sound much better to my ears.

Ultravox is really good, but suffers from glitches in breathy sounds and samples with constant high frequency content/noise. Again a crossover and mixback setup helps this one out. I personally like Ultravox\'s sound better than Waves...but waves is pretty consistent due to the filter.

Melodyne, atleast what I fooled with on theMAC, was the best sounding Formant shifter I\'d played with. Even above the Roland Variphrase which I actually got a chance to fool with lately.

I think it really depends on the algorithm you use. Which is why I like Melodyne, you can choose the best one. It takes to instruments with high frequency noise well as well... I think once the app gets its tweaks all out on the PC its going to be well worth while to check out and even have if you\'re a tweaker like me.

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Deep White]

STUPID ME!!!

When I exported the vocal track out of SONAR, I didn\'t notice that I exported it as a STEREO track....

I tried again today, with a mono vocal track, and it\'s much better now. The pitch shifting is more steady than Waves\' UltraPitch, which tends to \"ignore\" the pitch shifting of those long and steady notes in the end of a line, which is quite bothering.

Yet about the \"filtering out highend\" part, it is also noticable in Melodyne, as much as in UltraPitch. Is there any tweak to reduce this side effect?

Thanks for the input guys! and the introduction to this amazing product.

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Arys Chien
Composer & Musician
Deep White Studio
Taipei, Taiwan, R.O.C.

[KingIdiot]

hmm I haven\'t used melodyne in a while (still ahven\'t put the PC one on my DAW...always uncomfortable with beta software when I\'m in the middlw of a gig.)

I dont remember it being \"filtered sounding\". Maybe it was a bit but to my ears no where near as much as Waves.


There are a couple of tricks to get around filtering.

you could mix back the original file with a high pass filter popped in with the Ultri highs mixed back in (hopefully enough of the fundamental is gone and it doens\'t sound bad)

or you could use a plug in that adds brightness back. I found Hyperprisms Spectral enhancer or whatever its called. With jsut the right amount of tweaking, depending on the file, it has worked for me without sounding harsh.

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Really...I am an Idiot