more horn Talk - beep beep

[KingIdiot]

Ok yah its a bad subject line but anyway

I fiddled with combining and tweaking my horn patches a little bit today. I\'ve been promising myself I\'d do something like this to save on the poly count and have a \"prebuilt\" sound that I can dump out to my mixers and reverb
http://www.musicyouneed.com/stuff/HPhorn.mp3 (\"http://www.musicyouneed.com/stuff/HPhorn.mp3\")

wonder what you guys think so far. Its avery simple patch. I was planning on adding more to it and tweaking but I think for a basic, which is what I wanted it for, It works.

the patch istelf doesn\'t have the reverb. Its actually fairly dry sounding.

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Really...I am an Idiot

[thesoundsmith]

King, I think it sounds quite useable-can you play a sustained crescendo and get the flare? It seems to lack a bit of detail, but overall, would work well in a mix.
Dasher

[KingIdiot]

hey dash,

The instrument is majorly filtered. There is only one sample per note only Forte. Thats why there is so much loss in detail in the softer dynamics. I think I\'ll add the Piano samples in. Originally I had planed to make it 2 velocity and 2 layers, so I actually recorded the files, I jsut ahve to put them in. Right now since the filter is controlled by the mod wheel I can crecendo to sustain notes. When I add the Pianos it should much better. I can probably build multiple versions of crossfades for different types of crecendos. There might be some phasing issues that I\'ll have to take care of which is why I didn\'t want to deal with it right now.

I\'ve been working today, but I realised I have a reverb setting I kind of like so I grabbed it to an Impulse to have for batches or tests. Then while doing that I wanted to combine two impulses to see what it would do., and see if I could get that sound out of jsut QLB (the patch I built is a combination of QLB, AO, DD:SB, and a modified on the sample level QLB horn patch)

anyhow the results of the impulse test are as follows

heres the original file, jsut QLB out of giga. some noise, sorry:
http://www.musicyouneed.com/qlb/QLBbasic.mp3 (\"http://www.musicyouneed.com/qlb/QLBbasic.mp3\")

next up the same file processed with the impulse (some mix of dry and wet)
http://www.musicyouneed.com/qlb/QLBFX.mp3 (\"http://www.musicyouneed.com/qlb/QLBFX.mp3\")

and lastly is the impulse in Wave format if anyone liked the results or wants to try it on other things instead of QLB
http://www.musicyouneed.com/qlb/QLBHornImpulse.wav (\"http://www.musicyouneed.com/qlb/QLBHornImpulse.wav\")


I really enjoy this impulse builder http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

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Really...I am an Idiot

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 02-11-2002).]

[Thomas_J]

You\'re getting closer http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif It still sounds like a filtered miroslav FF horn ensemble patch. Oh and you got the Harry Potter theme wrong! (THE BLASPHEMY!!! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif For starters it\'s a diminished fifth (F, not E) at 00:06 :=)

Keep posting, it\'s interesting to hear how you come up with these patches, getting by with the limitations of the various libraries you use.

Cheers!
Thomas

[This message has been edited by Thomas_J (edited 02-11-2002).]

[KingIdiot]

hehheh

dammit Thomas J, you and Simon both pointed that out! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

Actually the real blasphemy is that I dont own the Harry Potter Score yet. I was going off of memory.

I think one more trip in with Dan dean Processed would bring out the FFF sound. Dan Dean\'s library has it, but I hid it a little back in that Harry Potter thing. It was just forcing the sound up too close.

I think he\'s gonna nail it with his Ensemble library, if not it will get me that much closer. As well We Have Maarten, and if he doesn\'t do it, maybe Gary.. I jsut want to stop buying all these damn libraries.

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Really...I am an Idiot

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 02-11-2002).]

[PeterRoos]

and for a bit more \'context\' please add some of those nice HP string lines (hehe!)

[PeterRoos]

oops, split reply...

anywayz, King, Thomas, I like these studies.

I think one the obvious problems single lines like this suffer from, is that all notes are from the same attack \'class\'. IMO one should use at least two sequencer tracks and build the line with at least two playing styles. In this case I\'d try DD FH Portato and Legato; the typical tweaking approach.

In this example this single line playing is rather exposed. Mixed with other intruments French Horns can easily get away with it, as opposed to trumpets and trombones.

In the soundtrack the theme is often played by the horns with some woodwinds on top, which is also a good approach in mockups to soften the horn attacks.

Peter

[KingIdiot]

Heh. Oh believe me Peter. I\'ll be getting to the strings again soon. I still need to finish tweaking the GR detaches. This horn thing only took a little bit and was going on while I was doing soem work anyways.

Expect MY ET demo at some point that will blow away everyone elses http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif MWAHAHAHAHAHA ...seriously tho I will be doing one. I started on one during the beta testing of GOS for the hell of it jsut to test short bows. Now that I\'ve some new tweaks of interest for GOS I\'ll be using ET as the \"goal\" for calibrating the tweaks.

but back to horns.. I agree that popping in different attacks from different libraries is going to help. In fact what I originally wanted to do was, instead of gigaport layering. Actually build a chromatic Sequencer map for waht I call \"the dump\" to a recorded file. Each track would be for the horns, but I would record multiple versions the notes with each horn\'s attack time adjsuted. Then I could build one patch with \"up/down\" type alternate notes. Also I could use a combination of layering and filtering to get some more attacks out of realtime Mod wheel control or breath controller. but this starts to get in the way of having a \"basic\" patch http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

I think like you said I could get away with it used in an actual orchestration, then layer in some portatos and stacattos to liven it up. Dan dean is pretty awesome for this. I mean really 8 velocity levels? there should be enough attacks in there http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Not to mention when you add my \"Mr TWEAK\" alterations in the mix http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

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Really...I am an Idiot

[PeterRoos]

Cool, King!

I agree that the \"dump\" concept could lead to very realistic and time-saving libraries! Haven\'t tried it yet myself, but definitely will try it as well!

BTW, love the notion of a French Horns library with Up/Down articulations! New Olympic category, I guess.

Off topic, on E.T.:
I was in the cinema with my 9 year old daughter watching the Dutch film that Maarten did some assistance work for. Very nice to hear the music if you know most of it is done with samplers (Maarten: where does the bass clarinet come from?).

Anyway, I saw an announcement for the revamped re-release of E.T.! I actually never saw it, so I\'m in for a nice JW treat, especially as the soundtrack seems to be re-mastered.

Cheers!

PR

[Maarten Spruijt]

Peter, I\'m not 100% sure but I think it was Vitous, the bass clarinet.

[Thomas_J]

Heheh a bowed horn patch http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif with left & right strikes and up & down bowing http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif
Sounds like a job for Donnie & co (No offense donnie, don\'t jump at me!)

Thomas

[KingIdiot]

actually I could build the patches to have slight Pitch slurs up to the note and down to the note.... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

If I set the pitchbend to a slightly different bend on each sample I could get a pretty nice portamento effect http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif I know people like to use the pitch bend wheel inbetween notes but it drives me suts drawing all those curves inbetween notes and they have to be perfectly placed unlike CC11 Fades. Pitch bend too early and you\'ve got total synth. Also if you have a long release, you\'re screwed. Not to mention release triggers and stuff.....blah blah blah blah blah blah

anyhow, then dimension switch to alternate versions of up and down notes via GPC. I could have four of them on different dimensions and then use two velocity levels and two layers for \"color\" fades. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Actually the more efficient way to do it would be to have one (or two) sustain with a slow attack (or controllable via GPC)and then make a seperate gigaport layered instrument with the portamentos. It would save alot of space rather than sampling the sustains over and over and over.

Man if I only had the money to sample my own horns I\'d be able to create a pretty killer library http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif....atleast I think it would be http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif


anyhow. NEVER SAW ET!!!! you\'re in for a treat http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Someone here needs to go to the premiere/special show where John Williams will be conducting a REAL FREAKING OCHESTRA DURING THE MOVIE!!!! I So want to go!! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif


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Really...I am an Idiot

[PeterRoos]

Sjeesh, King, 14 more to go and you hit 1000!
What\'s that about JW doing a live performance? Is that scheduled for the new ET premiere?

[KingIdiot]

Yes I am very addicted to this site.

There are people with over a thousand posts tho.

Like Simon, I believe hes up there. I can\'t remember who else but there are a couple.

And yeah Its a special screening of the ET re-release where John Williams will be conducting a live orchestra (dont think it will be a huge one...but you never know).

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Simon Ravn]

-- Universal Pictures and
Amblin Entertainment will unveil the 20th anniversary version of Steven
Spielberg\'s masterpiece \"E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial\" at a once-in-a-lifetime
premiere event on Saturday, March 16, 2002 at the Shrine Auditorium in Los
Angeles with five-time Academy Award(R)-
winning composer John Williams
conducting a 100-piece orchestra in a live score-to-film performance of his
Grammy and Oscar(R)-winning score.

So King, is 100 not enough? You want 200? 300???? http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by Simon Ravn (edited 02-11-2002).]

[Thomas_J]

Hehe 100 isn\'t much when you think about what we\'re used to with ensemble samples:

8-10 notes in a string tutti =

basses=2*5
celli=2*10
violas=2*10
1st violins=1*11
2nd violins=2*11

= 83 http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Add a w-wind tutti to that and you get something like:

oboe=3*1
flutes=3*2
clarinets=3*2
bassoons=2*1

= 17

Add brass:

horns=4*3
trumpet=3*3
trombone=3*3
bass trombone=1
tuba=1

= 32

Then you got your average sized kitchen:

snares, timpani, cymbal, gran cassa (all in tutti)

= 4

Sum = 136 virtual musicians http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Just a thought as usual http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif


Thomas

[KingIdiot]

ok ok ok.. a hundered. fine with me. I dont care I want to go http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

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Really...I am an Idiot