Just joined

[cmore]

Hi all,

Was surfing around looking for a great place to hang and learn about arranging. This place is full of intellectuals and I'm looking forward to picking up a lot of tips.

I never took any formal classes on arranging. (wife, kids, college, broke) I've been self taught and do pretty well in the combo style. I wanted to undertake a larger project and hope to learn a lot by doing so.

I want to take a typical big band arrangement and convert it to concert band. I use Finale so cut and paste etc. is not a problem for various instruments.

I would like to first get some advice on which concert band instruments can duplicate the instrumentation of a big band arrangement. I would like to keep it as simple as possible to get it sounding good then I will start experimenting with re arranging and tweaking. But I would appreciate a jump start to get the best sound. I may never play it with a real band but this will be my first adventure in a larger project.

Perhaps this isn't something that can be done easily but any advice would be appreciated.

[Garritan]

Hi cmore and welcome to the forum!

Hope you enjoy it here and learn from t the knowledgeable people here. And good luck on your project.

Looking forward to your participation.

Best wishes,

Gary Garritan



Hi all,

Was surfing around looking for a great place to hang and learn about arranging. This place is full of intellectuals and I'm looking forward to picking up a lot of tips.

I never took any formal classes on arranging. (wife, kids, college, broke) I've been self taught and do pretty well in the combo style. I wanted to undertake a larger project and hope to learn a lot by doing so.

I want to take a typical big band arrangement and convert it to concert band. I use Finale so cut and paste etc. is not a problem for various instruments.

I would like to first get some advice on which concert band instruments can duplicate the instrumentation of a big band arrangement. I would like to keep it as simple as possible to get it sounding good then I will start experimenting with re arranging and tweaking. But I would appreciate a jump start to get the best sound. I may never play it with a real band but this will be my first adventure in a larger project.

Perhaps this isn't something that can be done easily but any advice would be appreciated.

[Rhap2]

cmore:

Welcome to the Garritan Forum. A place where people
help other people with their music and motivate them
to greater, futuristic achievement.

I think you need to look at "Concert and Marching Band"
as a source in order to succeed with your objective.

A good number of our Forum members have produced really
great work with this sampled library.

Hope to hear some of your music soon,

Jack

[schneb]

This place is full of intellectuals and I'm looking forward to picking up a lot of tips.

Yes, we be smart. ;)

[cmore]

I'm leanring already. Thanks for the advice.


cmore:

I think you need to look at "Concert and Marching Band"
as a source in order to succeed with your objective.


Jack

[rbowser-]

Welcome, Cmore!

Your first post was inspiring. I really enjoyed hearing about your relationship with music, and how you're eager to plunge into a bigger project - broadening horizons et al.

And you're right, there are definitely people here who will be able to help you out with things as you go along.

Be sure to use the navigation tool at the bottom of the page so you can access the other Garritan Forums - some for technical assistance, tips, tutes on composition - etc!

Most of us have a number of the Garritan Libraries, and so the advice you've already gotten is spot on - that the Marching Band Library is chock full of exactly the kind of instruments you need for what you're talking about.

I look forward to hearing more from you as time goes on.

Randy B.

[bmdaustin]

Hi all,

Was surfing around looking for a great place to hang and learn about arranging. This place is full of intellectuals and I'm looking forward to picking up a lot of tips.

Just keep in mind that free advice is often worth less than what you pay for it :)


I would like to first get some advice on which concert band instruments can duplicate the instrumentation of a big band arrangement. I would like to keep it as simple as possible to get it sounding good then I will start experimenting with re arranging and tweaking. But I would appreciate a jump start to get the best sound.

Perhaps this isn't something that can be done easily but any advice would be appreciated.

A standard big band is comprised of 2 alto saxes, 2 tenor saxes, and one baritone sax, along with 4-5 trumpets and 4-5 trombones, at least one of which is a bass trombone. Each of these instruments will have their own individual and unique parts. The rhythm section consists of piano, guitar, bass, and drum set.

The saxes and brass are all found in a concert band, so those parts will transfer directly. A quick and dirty method for the rest is as follows - copy trumpet parts to flutes and clarinets. Trombone parts will copy to french horns, baritones, and tuba. Sax parts will copy to bass clarinets and bassoon. How you divide the parts up is up to you to experiment with.

You're wise to start with something simple (Count Basie or Glenn Miller) because, in addition to this being a learning experience for you, school age musicians are not as capable as professionals and you must take into account the technical level of difficulty of each part as well as the note ranges. For example, trumpet players at that age can usually play up to a written G on top of the staff (middle school) or up to the written C or D above that (high school) where college and professional trumpet players can play up to the G above that. You'll also need to aware of how much of the time your brass players are playing. Younger players don't have the physical endurance of older, more physically mature, players. Rests are very important for all players.

I would recommend some book study first before diving into a piece - mainly because you can save yourself a lot of grief and prevent rewriting any more than you have to. There are several standard jazz arranging textbooks (Inside the Score - Rayburn Wright, Arranged by Nelson Riddle, Sounds and Scores, The Complete Arranger - Sammy Nestico) available in addition to the Chuck Israels arranging course offered for free on this website.http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=107. More books can be found at http://www.penders.com/penders/catalog/cat_jazz.php?cPath=695_1102.

Good luck with your project. I'm sure it will be the first of many.

[schneb]

I want to take a typical big band arrangement and convert it to concert band. I use Finale so cut and paste etc. is not a problem for various instruments.

I created the following using the JAZZ package.
http://schneb.googlepages.com/music8

Direct MP3 Link
http://schneb.googlepages.com/gb-08.m4a

The reason why I would suggest this package PLUS the Marching Band package is because you can add various mutes to the Brass instruments to make your marching band sound more Glen Miller-ish. Would love to hear a live recording of your results!

Schneb

[rbowser-]

Hello again, Cmore

See all the responses you're already getting? This Forum really is a helpful place. Activity ebbs and flows, but there's always action going on.

I just noticed that you've been given some advice from bmdaustin about keeping your project(s) simple enough for school age musicians to play. I don't think you said you're aiming to develop pieces for school though--? If not, I would encourage you to do whatever you want with your arrangements, even if they could only be played by top-flight pros - Because that's one of the joys of composing and arranging with virtual instruments on a computer - the sky is really the limit!

Randy B.

[Michael_uk]

Hello cmore and welcome to our forums.

You have already received some good advice and suggestions. I would add particularly that the Garritan Concert and Marching Band library, already suggested by Rhap2, would be a good choice for you. This sampled library will probably contain all the instruments you would need and a few more besides and the sampled instruments are very high quality.

Good luck with your music.

[etLux]

Welcome aboard, cmore!

My best,



David
-----
David Sosnowski
www.DavidSosnowski.com

[cmore]

This is exactly what I was looking for. Wasn't sure how I could double the parts. I suspect not to double the lead parts. Especially the lead trumpet. This should be fun. I've been using Finale for years and upgrade every year to the newest version just to write small combo charts. Makes no sense. ;)

I've chosen a pretty simple ballad that sounds really great in a big band with a lot of moving lines around the solo. If I can get something that sounds good, I might run it over to the local community band and try it out.

Thanks again to everyone for your responses. I didn't expect this much information. What a great forum.




Just keep in mind that free advice is often worth less than what you pay for it :)



The saxes and brass are all found in a concert band, so those parts will transfer directly. A quick and dirty method for the rest is as follows - copy trumpet parts to flutes and clarinets. Trombone parts will copy to french horns, baritones, and tuba. Sax parts will copy to bass clarinets and bassoon. How you divide the parts up is up to you to experiment with.

You're wise to start with something simple (Count Basie or Glenn Miller) because, in addition to this being a learning experience for you, school age musicians are not as capable as professionals and you must take into account the technical level of difficulty of each part as well as the note ranges. For example, trumpet players at that age can usually play up to a written G on top of the staff (middle school) or up to the written C or D above that (high school) where college and professional trumpet players can play up to the G above that. You'll also need to aware of how much of the time your brass players are playing. Younger players don't have the physical endurance of older, more physically mature, players. Rests are very important for all players.

I would recommend some book study first before diving into a piece - mainly because you can save yourself a lot of grief and prevent rewriting any more than you have to. There are several standard jazz arranging textbooks (Inside the Score - Rayburn Wright, Arranged by Nelson Riddle, Sounds and Scores, The Complete Arranger - Sammy Nestico) available in addition to the Chuck Israels arranging course offered for free on this website.http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=107. More books can be found at http://www.penders.com/penders/catalog/cat_jazz.php?cPath=695_1102.

Good luck with your project. I'm sure it will be the first of many.

[Tom_Davis]

Welcome! You will indeed find a wealth of information here.

[AlanPerkins]

Welcome cmore!

Spend some time in the Listening Room and feel free to share your stuff there as well.

[C J Pro]

Greeting, cmore!

[bmdaustin]

Hello again, Cmore

I just noticed that you've been given some advice from bmdaustin about keeping your project(s) simple enough for school age musicians to play. I don't think you said you're aiming to develop pieces for school though--? If not, I would encourage you to do whatever you want with your arrangements, even if they could only be played by top-flight pros - Because that's one of the joys of composing and arranging with virtual instruments on a computer - the sky is really the limit!

Randy B.

If Cmore is writing for pros, then, by definition, no direction needs to be given as to level of difficulty. Therefore, the only useful advice I could offer would be for school bands, which are many times more plentiful than community concert bands. However, it should be noted that most community bands have technique equal to a good high school band, so my advice would still apply. Usually, only professional players are big enough gluttons for punishment to push the limits of their abilities and their instruments. :)

Also, while I agree with your encouragement to explore and take advantage of virtual instruments, since the ultimate goal does appear to be live performance, I would strongly advise that Cmore have the score reviewed by a competent authority on live performance. In my playing career, especially over the last 10-15 years, I've seen more and more software-induced errors - notes out of range, passages in bad ranges and really awkward keys, poor orchestration, etc. - because the computer could "play" it just fine. The real world is a different story, however. For example, next week I'm rehearsing, as a member of the orchestra, a new piece for "pops" orchestra, written by an amateur composer, where a solo flute has the melody with a full string section and rhythm section as accompaniment. I'm sure it sounds great on his computer, but I have my doubts about creating a viable balance in the rehearsal hall.

[rolifer]

Cmore

Weelkome to dis place. we be lots of smart peoples here and will heps you a plunty.

All kidding aside, post your music in the listening area and you will get the help you need.

Ron

[Leaf]

Welcome Cmore! You have found the best site on the web.

David

[cmore]

Well Jon I'll stay until I know it all. Then there won't be any point being here. Can a person really live that long?



Welcome! :)

hope you'll stay a while!

Jon

[DPDAN]

welcome cmore !!

Dan