Question about LOP

[Neal Acree]

As an owner of Ultimate Orchestral Percussion, I\'ve been considering upgrading to LOP. The one question I have is, how is the micing and room ambience reflected in the samples? Despite being advertised as not close-mic\'d, 90% of UOP sounded very close. Don\'t get me wrong, the sound quality is great, but I was expecting something a little different. Earlier talk about an upgrade to UOP mentioned being able to control the amount of room ambience with the mod wheel which is a great idea. So again the question is, how does the micing sound on LOP (yes I\'ve heard the demo but I couldn\'t really tell). Please help!

[KingIdiot]

The Room control in LOP is more like Room Decay control rather than actual Room Control

I dont have UOP but with LOP dont expect aht \"WAAAAAAY BAAAACK\" hall sound. The impact of the imtrumets sound dry, but the decay of the hall is there.

I like htese sounds. The timps sound really powerful, but not Boomy and muddy. Of course I would have rather the library be more like Real Giga Drums where you have complete control of the room mic volume and complete control of the dry mic volume. This however isn\'t the case....


Convolution here I come....again http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Haydn]

I really like the sound of LOP. I don\'t know if I would want percussion put back much more in the room as it may add mud to fast passages. I have not had a chance to play through all of the samples. This is library is a nice add-on to UOP. Much more control over snares, timps, cymbals plus it has many percussion instruments missing in UOP.

[Neal Acree]

Thanks for your help. I\'d really like to see an orchestral perc library that had adjustable close and far(decca tree) mic levels via controllers so you can have the best of both worlds, but until then I think I\'ll get the LOP.

[donnie]

Why would anyone want close recordings of orchestral percussion? Other types of percussion I could understand but orch. perc. I can\'t.

Donnie

[KingIdiot]

hmmm

really close militiristic snares, FX, Creating FX by moving the faders of each mic while its being played. Dry for piano, far for FF.
Any how, when I say Dry and Far, I mean the \"closer\" mic and a mic with a \"deep\" sound without as much impact.

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Robert Kral]

Sorry if this has been covered, but, DONNIE, what is the upgrade price/ procedure from UOP to LOP? Last time I looked at the bigfish site it doesn\'t mention it.

[donnie]

Robert,

No problem at all....this is how it works...if you send in UOP, AO perc, or Miroslav perc, you get $150 off the price of LOP. It\'s as simple as that! Hope you enjoy! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Donnie

[PeterRoos]

huh? This is getting interesting...

Donnie, do you mean that owners of the Advanced Orchestra CD 5 (Percussion) also apply for this \"cross-grade\"? I have the entire AO set for GS. Could I also make use of this?

Will you be posting the exact conditions for updates and special offers?

TIA!

Peter

[Simon Ravn]

Donnie, so this means you can now longer use UOP I presume?????

[donnie]

No not at all....The only reason for sending the discs back is just for a way of varification. I would encourage anyone who owns UOP and wants to do the upgrade to make backups of UOP. I have no problem with that at all. The more percussion the better!!! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Donnie

[This message has been edited by donnie (edited 02-06-2002).]

[Mel Tron]

Re: LOP Upgrade

They keep the disks and do not return them. That is unfortunate. It is NOT just for verification.

[donnie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mel Tron:
Re: LOP Upgrade

They keep the disks and do not return them. That is unfortunate. It is NOT just for verification.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like I always say...\"you will never please the spoiled\"

Name me one other library that let\'s you take money off on a competitive upgrade? Can\'t you just be happy with that?????

Geez........

[Robert Kral]

Donnie:

So long as this procedure is spelled out for all customers, especially the unusual fact that we can return the CD but KEEP USING A BACK-UP, this is indeed a very good deal, and highly unusual.

Of course, if the sample police ever came by my studio and saw I only had UOP on a bootleg looking CD I\'d have to explain it to them too.

Whatever, thanks for making this deal for us!! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[Neal Acree]

Donnie, I know the topic has changed by this point but to clarify what I said earlier about \"close mic\'ed\" orchestral percussion, I meant as close as the mics were on UOP. The distant mic would be 30-35 feet away above the podium (assuming this was in a decent sized hall) and the user could use a controller to adjust the mix. Plus, the combination of a close and distant mic would create a subtle \"flam\" from their distance apart, making a big sound when you wanted to feature it. I just thought it would be cool, that\'s all.

[donnie]

Robert,

No problem man....if they (sample police) ever do come by though just tell them to give me a call and I\'ll handle it http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

The reason for not returning the discs is because if we returned them then potentionally someone could give them to their friend and let them get the same discount. Thats really the only reason.

Donnie

[KingIdiot]

Neal thats eactly what I\'m looking for.

LOP does have a lot of hall in the decay. The bass drum has a decay that goes on and on that I love. but I the \"hit\" is pretty prominent. I\'d love to have the choice of moving the sound with mixing mic placements.


Anyhow. there is a pretty easy way to get this. Jsut expost all the samples and throw them through a convolver, then replace the samples in a copy of hte instrument....boom \"far mics\". http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Its not \"out of the box\" and not \"perfect\", but its works well with percusion.

other instruments however...... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Anyhow. The distance is pretty good on LOp, there are only a few instances where I would have liked more control over mic placement....thats jsut because I\'m a control freak! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Simon Ravn]

King, now I want to know. WTF is a \'convolver\'. Is that an impulse?

[donnie]

Robert,

No problem man....if they (sample police) ever do come by though just tell them to give me a call and I\'ll handle it http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

The reason for not returning the discs is because if we returned them then potentionally someone could give them to their friend and let them get the same discount. Thats really the only reason.

Donnie

[Mel Tron]

Donnie: Spoiled? As in worthless, ruined, unfixable? Ok, lets talk about being spoiled; I don’t know about you but I paid my way through College by tuning and moving pianos. Also I wrote Lead sheets for publishers and played in piano bars at night. Now that’s work.

Yes, I paid hard earned cash for both the Ultimate Percussion and Ultimate Tympani, but I suppose that doesn’t matter to you.

If these Percussion Libraries were indeed “Ultimate” as the name suggests then there would be no need for any upgrade. It should be my decision as the original owner to keep the disks if I decide to upgrade.

The real problem in this business is that you don’t know what you’re buying until you install it in your hard drive. And by then, if you don’t like it you had better be prepared for an onslaught of negativity from the Sample Developers if you even dare post a criticism of their work.

[KingIdiot]

Simon,
Yah. Acoustic Modelor is a convolver, altiVerb the same, same with The Sony Unit I believe. They all do the process a little differently, probably with their own algorithm variations, but I believe they are all based off the same process.
Cool Edit also has a convolution process.

BTW I could be wrong about all this http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Wouldn\'t be the first time.


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Really...I am an Idiot

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 02-06-2002).]

[jubal]

Thanks for the info Donnie...I am enjoying UOP and look forward to LOP.

Come to think of it I am also enjoying GOS, SoV, DDSB, DDWW and VotA. Anymore acronyms and my head is going to explode.

Anyway solid work...what\'s next?

[Simon Ravn]

Donnie, do you know if I have to order directly from Big Fish to get this upgrade path from UOP to LOP, or will this work through all distributors around the world? If I have to order from Big Fish I might as well scrap the whole upgrade thing... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[Haydn]

Mell tron,

You can keep the your disc but you don\'t get the $150 dollars off. Donnie assured me that it is okay to make a backup copy of UOP for the upgrade. Since his company published UOP, I think that answers the copyright issues. Darned technology keeps marching on and keeps making the ultimate (at the time it was published) libraries not ultimate in a couple years. This is always going to be an issue with computers, software and sample libraries.

This library is well worth the money at the upgrade cost and it is all new instruments to add to the other 2 titles. BTW, the snares are awesome!

[timzydee]

If I send in the original disks can I hang on to the double sided jewel case to put my back-up in?

[Z6]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by donnie:
Robert,

The reason for not returning the discs is because if we returned them then potentionally someone could give them to their friend and let them get the same discount. Thats really the only reason.

Donnie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But wouldn\'t the same person just copy the new disks anyway?

What if some of the other \'cross-libraries\' do their own upgrades and the user is left without the original disks? You might end up getting a lot of phone calls. How is your telephone number and voice to be verified way down the line? What if you walk in front of a bus tomorrow and two years from now one of the other developers offers an upgrade? Is it time for a seance?

Seriously, couldn\'t you guys just build a registration database? Again, it looks as if the bona-fide user has to keep proving his \'innocence\'. Laying out the cash in the first place should be enough. You really can\'t expect customers to keep bending over backwards to do your work for you - regardless of whether this is an offer or not.

I know. Shutup Z6. Who rattled your cage anyway? We\'ll throw you a bun when we want to hear from you.

Get with it guys. How about seamless customer service? You can\'t go on forever trying to make money from a hobby.

Invest in a customer tracking system. Do the work for the customer and everyone will gain.

Sending back the CDs is just the usual \'going through the motions\' that simply will not achieve what it sets out to. It\'s a nice idea - think it through!

If you keep track of your customers then they can at least find out about this offer. It\'s not as if all of your customers come to this forum, do they? That way, you can also snag customers for life.

I know everyone wants to keep it all happy and creative with everyone running about in pink tutus, but these are important issues for consumers.

If people can \'just call you\' in the future, then why not right now? (and they get to hold on to their CDs.)