Use of the title "Maestro"

[donnie]

I really hope that this doesn\'t start a flame war and this post is not meant to hurt anyone either but I feel this must be said.

As someone who makes a living playing in an orchestra I feel that we are using the word \"Maestro\" inappropriately. Maestro is title given with highest regards to the main conductor of a symphony and is not to be taken lightly. In Memphis we don\'t even call the assistant conductor Maestro.

Again, I don\'t mean any harm by this but I do want to make sure people understand that this title is not to be thrown around loosely. After all we don\'t use titles like \"Bishop\" or \"CEO\" loosely.

Sincerely,

Donnie

[Lance_M]

There are very, very, very few sacred words these days... and I personally don\'t consider \"Maestro\" one of them. Remember, these are the days when a \"queen\" can often simply be a guy in drag...

Besides, actions speak louder than words.

[donnie]

Hey King! Gotcha on the dumb a thing! Thats me all the way...

Well I guess I\'m just being a snobby stuffed shirt on this then. Are there any other symphony guys out there that think like me???

Donnie

[Simon Ravn]

Donnie - probably - but this has to be one of the most ridiculous threads ever to be started http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[Gav]

I have to admit, I often have a difficult time figuring out where exactly donnie is coming from. (and I don\'t mean geographically)

Gav http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif

[donnie]

Oh, come on now....surely there\'s someone out there who knows where I\'m coming from. And again, I not trying to be mean spirited about this to anyone it\'s just something that honestly bothers me some.

I guess it\'s just one of those things were you have to be in the business for it to really effect you.

Donnie

[Thomas_J]

Funny topic Donnie! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif I think this irritation moment belongs to you and only you, though. I\'m a professional pianist and I\'ve got my masters degree in orchestration. I guess that makes me \"a guy in the biz\". Funny, though. Here in norway we just refer to the conductor as \"man.\"

\"Hey man, could you give me a little point when my part comes in.. I\'ve got like 64 rest bars here and I keep forgetting where I was.\"

Thomas

[Z6]

It just means \'master\'. If you want to call someone \'master\' because he holds a little stick; go right ahead. In fact, if you went to England and made that crack about the Memphis Symphony Orchestra, most of the people who think \'Maestro\' belongs to the chosen few would be rolling their eyes around in embarrassment and you\'d get some bad jokes about Elvis flung at you to boot.
:-)

There are Maestros in every walk of life and we get to decide for ourselves who they are - as long as i don\'t HAVE to call someone Maestro, I\'m OK.

I agree with lance_m, only upper-class dim-bulbs born with diamond-encrusted spoons poking from every orafice should be called queens.

In fact, the gay community\'s hijacking of the word \'queen\' helps to break down ludicrous artificial status-spheres (by helping us appreciate that we\'re all equal - or at least we\'re all of equal value).

If you want a word that has really suffered, try \'awesome\'. Time was, you had to be visited by angels (or some such hallucination) before you were officially allowed to use the word. Now it\'s:
\"Got a pen?\"
\"Sure.\"
\"Awsome.\"

I think you should start calling the assistant conductor at the Memphis Symphony \'Maestro\' and see what happens. If you don\'t get a reaction, tell him he\'s as talented as a queen.

Thanks for giving me five minutes off my mind-numbingly boring work to talk absolute drivel :-)

[Thomas_J]

Hahaha Z6 http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif You really crack me up sometimes !! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif

Thomas

[donnie]

Ok, this is turning from funny to insulting.

First off, Thomas J just last year you said you were starting college and now a year later you have your Masters??? Guess I should have went to school in Norway, it would have saved me about 6 years of school loan bills.

Like I said before, I tried to make this lighthearted but certain peoples ignorances are a little to hard to swallow. Its just that to me, as a professional musician, who makes my living by playing in an orchestra, throwing around that title is insulting. It\'s no different than a doctor being upset if everyone in the room started calling themselves doctors. The real doctor has spent long hard years earning that title and to him, as it is to me, the title means something and should be respected more.

Donnie

[This message has been edited by donnie (edited 01-31-2002).]

[This message has been edited by donnie (edited 01-31-2002).]

[Nick Phoenix]

I\'ve fallen and I can\'t get up! Thats funny sh*t! Donnie, you have a point. By the way, your London Percussion rocks. Where\'s my disk #5?

[This message has been edited by Nick Phoenix (edited 01-31-2002).]

[Thomas_J]

Come on there Donnie, I didn\'t mean to insult you! You take things too personally http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif I was merely making a \"humurous\" remark. No offence intented whatsoever!

I\'m completing my fourth year at the music conservatory. Before that I attended the university of technology - music science. That\'s where I studied orchestration. Last year I was accepted in to the music conservatory straight in to the 3rd year based on my qualifications. I\'m studying composition right now. Done this summer.

Looking forward to start a career!


Thomas

[This message has been edited by Thomas_J (edited 01-31-2002).]

[donnie]

Hey Nick! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

email your address again....we just got moved into our new house today so I\'ll get one out to you tom.

Donnie

[Z6]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by donnie:
Ok, this is turning from funny to insulting.

First off, Thomas J just last year you said you were starting college and now a year later you have your Masters??? Guess I should have went to school in Norway, it would have saved me about 6 years of school loan bills.

Like I said before, I tried to make this lighthearted but certain peoples ignorances are a little to hard to swallow. Its just that to me, as a professional musician, who makes my living by playing in an orchestra, throwing around that title is insulting. It\'s no different than a doctor being upset if everyone in the room started calling themselves doctors. The real doctor has spent long hard years earning that title and to him, as it is to me, the title means something and should be respected more.

Donnie

[This message has been edited by donnie (edited 01-31-2002).]

[This message has been edited by donnie (edited 01-31-2002).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Donnie. Chill out. Read the first paragraph again. These \'honorary\' titles give rise to all sorts of strange behavior.

When I was at music college, I got a lift in in a convertible one day. When I got there, everyone was calling me Maestro.

Now I\'ve got a Master\'s degree but nobody calls me Maestro anymore - even in high winds.

In the UK when a doctor becomes very, very advanced, he gets called \'Mr.\' (believe it or not - go look it up if you like).

I was in a room full of doctors once and everyone was calling me mister - I felt so good.

And tell me why didn\'t you go to school in Norway anyway? What are you insinuating? Look, this getting insulting, some of my best friends are Norwegian and they\'ll be round at your house tonight.

This has gone from funny to insulting and back to funny - or is it the other way round?

Anyway Donnie, I went to Norway once and it was bloody cold I can tell you.

Are you trying to insinuate that Elvis wasn\'t a master of rock and roll? I\'m sending some old geezers with slick comb-over around to your house with the Norwegians.

You\'re in trouble now.

Is there a doctor in the house?
:-)
P.S. It\'s your own fault for starting me up on this Maestro stuff. I used to have a dog called Maestro and he got a big carbunkle on his neck and died. You just have no feelings at all; please be more attentive to the feelings of others in future.

[A_Sapp]

DIE THREAD DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Z6]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by A_Sapp:
DIE THREAD DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How dare you! I think Donnie is correct. Principal conductors should be called \'Maestro\' and assistants called \'Mini Maestro\' or possibly \'Mickey Maestro\'. Whatever it is that matters most to people actually IN the industry is the most important thing.

I love this thread; even though i still can\'t figure nick\'s post or how come every time I see someone complain in this group about insults they seem to spend the whole post insulting the person who apparently insulted them. How can it be funny to accuse someone of pretending to have a master\'s degree? Nastee.

I promise never to call anyone Maestro again except incredibly talented musicians who are IN the industry and deserve respect.

Please snd me your e-mail address so i can spam you.

Hey, Sapp have I taken up too much acreage with these ridiculous posts? Yes.

Hey Thomas you big faker. I don\'t know. You fake trombones. You fake degrees. Stop taping those orchestras and kidding on it\'s sampled will you? It makes people angry.

By the way, when is the Memphis Percussion coming out? (or is that an insult as well?)

[Robert Kral]

http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

(Please don\'t read too much into that! It\'s just that this thread is too funny!!).

[KingIdiot]

Have to admit Z6 is pretty witty

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Mel Tron]

If I have to read one more Totally Stupid topic like this I will forever not browse this Forum again.

What the hell does this have to do with Digital Sample Libraries?

[Z6]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mel Tron:
If I have to read one more Totally Stupid topic like this I will forever not browse this Forum again.

What the hell does this have to do with Digital Sample Libraries?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don\'t believe you. Someone take that gun from Mel\'s head. He doesn\'t want to read, do you hear!

It\'s just a wee bit of fun. Cool your pants.

[KingIdiot]

ever think about the term Sample library?

I wonder if there is a library of all the sample packets and teasers that people send to you in the mail.

Or if there are buildings partly built with a section of books, so that someone could sample a library.

hmmmm.....

what if Dog was really spelled C A T...

Woah....thats deep Ogre.....as the pipe gets passed

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Really...I am an Idiot

[donnie]

Please forgive me if I am showing respect for the business that I am in. It\'s comments like Z6\'s that make me realize just how amature some people really are. Making light of a profession which and so many other professional musicans hold so dear is unfortunate.

As I\'ve said many times now I was merely speaking up for the field that I am in. The fact that so many can\'t get what I\'m trying to say speaks for itself.

Donnie

[donnie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Z6:

Hey Thomas you big faker. I don\'t know. You fake trombones. You fake degrees. Stop taping those orchestras and kidding on it\'s sampled will you? It makes people angry.
[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry but in America you don\'t start school one year and have a Masters the next. It just doesn\'t work that way........anywhere.


Donnie

[KingIdiot]

Hey Donnie where the heck is my LOP Disk #22?

I need a bowed timpani

wen are you doing you junk percussion library? I\'m gonna head out to the junkyard when it warms up a bit, with a DAT and some stuff to bang and bow with http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Robert Kral]

KingIdiot:

Really, you are an idiot.

well, you\'re not really, but I\'ve always wanted to say that.

[A_Sapp]

Whoa... excuse me while I polish my gun. (kidding, in case anyone takes it seriously, psh...)

[Lance_M]

Donnie, I\'m sure many people \"get\" what you\'re saying, they just don\'t particularly agree that it\'s important to tip-toe around the word. There\'s a difference.

[RobertKooijman]

Donnie:

\"And tell me why didn\'t you go to school in Norway anyway?\"

Just read you bought a new house. Congratulations!

It would have been an enormous achievement if you would be able to do that and keep on purchasing these lovely libraries if you studied and went on living in Norway http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

That country is so dammmm expensive!!!
Recently, Oslo had the \'honour\' of being voted the worlds most expensive city apart from some places in Asia.

I once made the terrible mistake of walking in Oslo with a can of beer in my hand. Guess my surprise when people told me that was NOT allowed and I could get a high fee for it.
And just the can of beer already costed a fortune http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

Getting to the original topic: here in India we talk of a \"Pandit\" when refering to someone that has achieved a very high level of musical skill. There are not that many.

Thomas: don\'t worry, Norway is a beautiful country. It\'s just that there are way too many police officers (including ordinary people that act like them probably out of some kind of frustration with the system) http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Cheers, Robert

[Tokyo Joe]

C\'mon, this is getting silly. I don\'t think anyone is walking around calling themselves \"Maestro\" just because they own GOS.

[KingIdiot]

HAHA,

Hi Maestro, Yo Maestro \'sup http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

you dumbass ;P

CEO is used VERY loosely from where I can see http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Seems everone has a \"buisness\" and likes to call themselves a CEO of it.

In Fact The term Maestro is used pretty loosely in some cases \"Maestro please\" is something, for some reason, I hear at a lot of Karaoke Bars.......if thats not loose enough....I dont knwo what is

Bishop on the other hand.......

I Think it is not used lightly and that your description of what its reserved for is perfect for how its being used. *WE* are the main conductors of *OUR* symphony so in a sense it works perfectly.

I dont believe its being thrown around loosely. Its not like anyone here is going \"Hey, I know this guy he\'s a Maestro!!\"


BTW

DIE THREAD DIE!!!
http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

just incase it gets heated
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Really...I am an Idiot

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 01-31-2002).]

[JWink]

Has anyone seen Muppets From Space? There is a scene where Kermit and company are infiltrating a secret government lab (cleverly disguised as a cement factory! heh heh heh!), and they are disguised in white lab coats. When someone walks by, they start saying to each other and to the passerby:

\"Doctor?\"
\"Doctor!\"
\"Doctor,\"
\"Doctor.\"

It is hysterical. Anyhoo, I am a conducting student, and all us little kiddie conductors call each other \"Maestro.\" It is mostly as a joke, and it always ends up sounding like that Muppets bit. Interestingly, however, this began not with one of the students, but with our teacher. Now this is a man who has had a long career with major orchestras throughout Europe and the United States. When we call him \"Maestro,\" we mean it with the deepest respect and admiration. When we call each other \"Maestro,\" or when he uses it with us, it is still s sign of respect... but it is also very playful. I think the difference is how it is intended. I do understand where Donnie is coming from, but I also agree that he is taking it far too personally.

And really, this is an entertaining topic. Thank you all for making me smile!

[donnie]

I got an email from someone on this forum last night that made me realize something. The unfortunate fact is that we live in time where respect for other people is really low. People use tiltles and terms reserved for others who deserve it without regard or care. The use of Maestro may not be big deal to any of you but it is to me. Even though you might not be able to understand why it is so important you should respect that it is. It just so happens that this is my business and it\'s very important and special to me.

This has gone way off the mark of my original lighthearted opening post but so be it. The fact is that I think we should ALL be a little more respectful of whats important to each of us no matter if we understand all of it or not.

Donnie

[Thomas_J]

I second that, Donnie. I think that we are very fortunate to be in such a great business as this. We are more respected amongst \"commoners\" than one should think. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Having said that, there\'ll always be people who don\'t agree with you. That doesn\'t necessarily mean they don\'t have respect for you.

Thomas

[sgarsson]

\"Few men desire freedom, what most want is a just master\"

-- Author unknown

Donnie, I believe I fully appreciate your values and philosophies. However, I agree with one of the earlier posts, in our own way we each are own \"Maestros\". The moment we uniformly equate labels with the underlying greatness we begin to belittle ourselves. That is not to say we don\'t respect others. I am sure your Maestro in Memphis knows how much he/she means to you when you refer to them as \"Maestro\". It probably would mean a lot less to him/her coming from me. Your \"powerful\" and real conversations with him/her includes that label to convey respect, admiration, etc. At the end of the day, however, you are as much a Maestro as your \"Maestro\". Just ask any of the many on this forum using your libraries!

I think this thread is asking you to capture the spirit of various communication styles while knowing that to respect each other can be universal (and demonstrated in countless ways regardless of the language chosen).

The quote above is to remind you of your \"Maestro-ness\".

Scott

[KingIdiot]

I agree with Thomas J, donnie.

Aggreeing and respecting are two different things.

*I Feel* that one really needs to understand that words are really trivial since anyone can really \"say\" them, and that the things that matter (like respect towards someone) come from the heart of an individual. While we use words to convey these feelings and importances, its really whats behind them when its said that matters. To me there lies the difference.

I can understand where you come from, but I dont believe that respect in this world is as low as you think. It may not be as high as people think as well. Also Respoect shouldn\'t be reserved just for a person given a \"title\"

there is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more disrespect going on in this forum nearly everyday. Half hearted comments, sly hidden meanings, inside \"jokes\", suspicious undetones, innuendo, lies, insinuations. Its like the news...er i mean a Soap Opera.

You are all Drama Queens!!! hmmm and I\'m King ... dont like where thats going...


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Really...I am an Idiot

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 02-01-2002).]

[Aaron Levitz]

Back in highschool, some guys I knew used to show up every day dressed head to toe in military gear. They meant this as a sign of respect and admiration for the enlisted men and women of our country\'s armed forces. But the military personnel they ran into one day saw things differently. They announced in no uncertain terms that this was a mockery, that letting kids who hadn\'t even been through basic training wear the uniform diminished the accomplishments that had earned them theirs. I\'d like to say my schoolmates took this to heart and went back to civilian clothes, but their outlook changed to reflect this confrontation. From that moment on, they dressed in military gear to deliberately piss off any ungrateful soldiers who don\'t appreciate a show of affection when they see one.

We live in a very strange culture, where expressing sensitivity is seen as an open invitation to attack you in that area. \"Please don\'t do that\" translates into \"Repeat incessantly.\"

We\'re taught not to kick a man when he\'s down, but this somehow gets subverted when we realize we don\'t get to kick them when they\'re up either, and suddenly an action which would otherwise never have occurred to us becomes a driving force in our daily social interactions.

Well, okay, maybe not. But I liked the imagery.

Still, when a good natured ribbing fails to produce the desired bonding-as-equals, our usual response is to up the pressure and try again. Either we drag the guy down to our level and everything\'s good, or we make him inferior and everything\'s better. It\'s a sad way to live.

So, without going into the whole \"music lifts our spirits\" speech, you\'ll know what I\'m talking about when I say we should all be above that?

[Lance_M]

I... I love you, King.

[KingIdiot]

I know Lance... I know

Its just something I have to deal with.

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Lance_M]

Here\'s what I\'m trying to say...

If I was in his symphony, of course I would say \"Maestro\", and treat him with as much respect as I would any human being. Just as if I were to meet George W. Bush (who holds a MUCH more important title than \"Maestro\"), I\'d show some respect and call him \"Mr. President\", or something to that effect.

But that\'s the thing... it\'s not a direct, close part of my everyday life, so I\'m just fine referring to him as \"George Bush\". I\'m sure most of you do as well, perhaps even Donnie, and I\'m sure ol\' George doesn\'t mind one bit.

[This message has been edited by Lance_M (edited 02-01-2002).]