PMI Grandioso STEINWAY D, new demo material

[Michiel Post]

We uploaded new demo material from Chris Nicolaides, Axiamusic (a nice quiet piece for solo piano that shows expressiveness)and 3 pieces from Bruce Mitchell, SOCAN, 2 pieces for solo piano and one for piano and orchestra (GOS, Dean, Vitous & percussion).
http://www.postaudiomedia.com/demo.html (\"http://www.postaudiomedia.com/demo.html\")

Hope you enjoy listening to their music!

[Damon]

The piano sounds great Michiel! All of the demos are very nice as well http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif.
This might have been discussed before, but how much will the piano sell for?

[Michiel Post]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Damon:
The piano sounds great Michiel! All of the demos are very nice as well http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thank you! It actually their musical work!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>This might have been discussed before, but how much will the piano sell for?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The price is not fixed yet, but I think the library will be in the $300 region.
Michiel

[LHong]

I just listened to the POSTDEMO MP3. This piano sample seems be captured very rich, dark and natural compressed sounding! It would be a beautiful piano-sample in classical arrangement as ever needed!
Nice works, Michiel.
Long

[Michiel Post]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LHong:
It would be a beautiful piano-sample in classical arrangement as ever needed!
Nice works, Michiel.
Long
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks, Long,
We figured it was essential to get the best piano technician, sound technician and musician that we could get for this recording. The piano technician took care each note was perfectly tuned (he was working all the time) and sounded right.
This way I hope we get the final Steinway D sample set that can be used for any kind of music.
Michiel

[sjduck]

Hi Michiel

The demos make for facinating listening. This piano and your micing of it sound so different from the Bardstown Audio instrument (as you would expect). This is a good thing as it means I\'ll be able to justify having both in my collection.

One request, however - would you be able to post a version/versions of the same demos without the Altiverb processing? I personally prefer dryer recordings and it would really help when trying to critique the samples.

Kind regards,
Stephen.

[sjduck]

Hi Michiel,

One additional question -

$300 is equivalent to £208 UK money. Do you know if your distributor will play fair and do a straight conversion, or if they\'re likely to ramp up the price by invoking the annoying 1$ = £1 formula?

If that\'s the case, will I be able to buy direct from you?

Regards,
Stephen.

[Michiel Post]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sjduck:
This is a good thing as it means I\'ll be able to justify having both in my collection.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Stephen,
I agree. The different pianos on the market all have their own value and sound.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sjduck:
One request, however - would you be able to post a version/versions of the same demos without the Altiverb processing? I personally prefer dryer recordings and it would really help when trying to critique the samples.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand you need these demo\'s real bad to get to know the quality of the library.
Here is what I did:
I\'ve made higher quality MP3\'s from the same midi files.
You will find on the update demo page:
the Wanderer, (by Bruce Mitchell) once played on the \"PMI STeinway D CLASSIC\" patch and once on the \"16 layers PMI Steinway D\" patch.
The demo by Axia music (Chris) is now played once on the \"PMI STeinway D CLASSIC\" and once

on the \"\"PMI STeinway D 8 layers Virtuoso sustain\"\".
All new MP3\'s are totally unprocessed and encoded to 256 bps MP3.

The demo\'s are now added to the page at: www.postaudiomedia.com/demo.html (\"http://www.postaudiomedia.com/demo.html\")


Best,
Michiel Post

[ChrisAxia]

Hi All,

Just to clarify, my original demo does NOT use Altiverb. It uses the Piano Hall setting on the Lexicon MPX1.

I thought Michiel had Altiverb and he thought I had it! Just a silly misunderstanding, but it still sounds pretty good to my ears!!

Chris

[Sapkiller]

Hi Michael
I just want to join the chorus -
Congrats - You\'ve set a new standard for
Piano libraries.
As I heard those demo\'s I just kept saying to myself: Yes - the sound is right, yes -its so real you can almost feel the piano, listen to the delicate notes at the beginning of AXIA\'s piece and the sustained bass note at the end - right on ( great expressive playing by the way ), that dramatic chord in the middle of the orchestra piece - right on, the mystical pattern at end of the same piece - right on ( too bad about the Glockenspiel though - it obscures the beauty of the piano a bit)

Sorry for getting carried away... :-)

Where and when can I buy this?
Will it be available in Europe? Worra?

Bjk

[Michiel Post]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Deep White:
Hi Michael,

Can you tell me if these demo were done with the released version or still in beta version? cause I think I heard strange noises at the attack of some notes.


Arys Chien<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The demo is done with a demo/beta version. The last changes will have repairs for the small details like the clicks at some sample starts and some excesive noise in a few samples here and there.




[This message has been edited by Michiel Post (edited 01-23-2002).]

[Michiel Post]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sjduck:
Michiel,

Thank you very much for posting the additional demos. I\'m a little worried about the amount of noise reduction you\'ve had to use on the samples. It would appear that some samples are still quite noisy and the ones that are not have quite obviously had some serious eq applied (not unlike a dolby system).

In its present state the piano whilst sounding utterly beautiful, is to my ear very muffled by the noise reduction.

If you would prefer to continue this discussion via private email, please let me know and I\'ll write to you direct.

Regards,
Stephen.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi STephen,
Rest assured that noise will be eliminated in the final release. The guy doing the noise reduction has SonicSolutions No-Noise. He was doing other (more important?) things and will have the files ready by next week.
In fact there is almost no noise reduction or eq used do far. The microphones were dead-quiet and so was the recording studio. The samples have gained alittle noise caused by normalisation.
Anyway these demos don\'t sound muffled to my ears!

Best,
Michiel

[john g]

The Chris Nicolaides demo puts the sample to the test. His demo material is in the difficult range an octave above and below mid c. And the demo uses slow tempi and long sustained notes. Sue me folks, you just can\'t evaluate a sample without THIS kind of demo.

Based on the demo, this sample is top notch, absolutely first rate. I guess I\'ll be forced to anti-up those tinnie-winnie Canuck bucks for this one, becuase I\'ve never been so impressed by a demo.

BTW, could the illustrious originator of this sample tell us what distinguishes each of the patches for the demos: the \"classic\" Steinway D, and the other two Steinway D formulations? I don\'t see this info on the site.

John Grant

WTC Book 1 part 1: http://www.mp3.com/stations/bach_wtc_1_part1 (\"http://www.mp3.com/stations/bach_wtc_1_part1\")
part 2: http://www.mp3.com/stations/wtc2 (\"http://www.mp3.com/stations/wtc2\")



[This message has been edited by john g (edited 01-23-2002).]

[Bardstown Audio]

As a sampled instrument developer, I would like to make a few comments about sample recording nine foot concert grand pianos, and Steinway Model D\'s in particular. A Steinway Model D is the most difficult of all concert grand pianos to sample record, and for several reasons. First of all, I will say that I sample recorded a Steinway Model D over a year ago. After editing many notes of this Steinway Model D that I sample recorded and making gig files with just a single velocity layer of this instrument, I found it to be unusable because of excessive mechanical noise in the action of the Steinway Model D that I sample recorded. This is not to say that a Steinway Model D is anything less than a \"world class\" concert grand piano. Personally, I am very extremely fond of Steinway Model D\'s. A Bosendorfer Imperial is a quieter instrument mechanically than a Steinway, which makes for a much easier piano to sample record and produce. Any attempt to produce a sampled Steinway Model D is most commendable. Michiel\'s Steinway Model D is probably as good as it is going to get with any Steinway Model D, and he has my sincere respect as a quality developer.

The mechanical noise in the action, which is more characteristic in a Steinway Model D than other concert grand pianos in general, is not noticeable so much when you are playing the real Steinway Model D. These mechanical noises also are not noticeable when you record a pianist playing a real Steinway Model D. However, when you sample record this piano, or any other piano as well, one single note at a time, you will definitely capture all of the characteristics of each individual note, and more especially the sound of the action and hammers. These mechanical sounds are totally unavoidable.

In general, a seven foot Steinway Model B has a quieter action than the nine foot Model D, and for several reasons. The longer strings on a Model D, along with a completely different design, wider bridge position, longer hammer shanks in order to strike the strings in the right position which is further out from the pin block because of a longer piano, necessitates the need for an action with a completely different design. With bigger hammers, longer hammer shanks, and a different keyboard action design, all of these things make for more mechanical noise than the Steinway Model B. However, I much prefer a beautiful Steinway Model D anytime over a Steinway Model B, and I am therefore willing to go along with any slight sacrifices in order to have a world class sampled Model D, such as the one that Michiel will be releasing.

I realize that many like the sound of a distant miked piano. This is all very well and good. Distant miking a piano performer playing a real piano is a completely different ballgame than distant miking a piano for sample recording one note at a time. It is totally impossible to distant mic a piano for sample recording one note at a time without introducing signal noise, even with the very best equipment and in world class state of the art recording studios. When an attempt such as this is made, there has to be some noise reduction techniques utilized, and this is where the developer has to make decisions as to how much noise reduction to apply. There is a trade off in this procedure. The more noise you eliminate, the more you end up taking away from the character of the piano. Therefore, the developer has to decide in his professional opinion as to where the best \"break-even\" point is in conducting this procedure. The professional developer also has to decide where to place the mic\'s for the best sound. You get cleaner sounding samples with very little noise when you close mic a piano, but there again, you do not have the distant ambient sound of the piano when you do this. There are high quality reverb and performance hall emulations which can compensate to a fairly good degree, in order to capture distant performance hall ambience on close miked pianos.

As sampled instrument sound developers, we have to do the very best we can with what we have to work with. There is no such thing as the perfect piano to sample record. It is my strong opinion that Michiel has done an excellent job with his Steinway Model D, and I very highly recommend that people who are wanting high quality sampled pianos to give his Steinway Model D serious consideration, because it is definitely worth it. I personally want all of the best sampled pianos in my collection, including Michiel\'s Steinway Model D, in order to have high quality variety and versatility, depending on my music and mood.

Kip
Bardstown Audio
www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")



[This message has been edited by Bardstown Audio (edited 01-23-2002).]

[Bruce Mitchell]

Sapkiller: that\'s a Celeste! not a Glock. And yes it\'s a little loud. I\'ll remix it.

Chris: I love your piano playing, very nice. What Keyboard are you using? I have a roland A-90, not enough velocity control for this piano.

[Deep White]

Hi Michael,

Can you tell me if these demo were done with the released version or still in beta version? cause I think I heard strange noises at the attack of some notes.

This is very strange. The Malmsjo Acoustic Grand also had this problem at Ver 1.0. I reported it to Hans and he removed most of the attack noise in Ver 1.5. Now I heard the same attack noise again in your demo, and I\'m very curious just where those noises derive from?

Besides that, this is a great sample and one of what I need.

Best Regards,

Arys Chien

[Bardstown Audio]

Hello Michiel,

Very nice sampled Steinway Model D. Sounds superb!

I consider Michiel\'s Steinway Model D piano to make a very nice addition to a sampled piano collection.

Kip
Bardstown Audio
www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")



[This message has been edited by Bardstown Audio (edited 01-23-2002).]

[sjduck]

Michiel,

Thank you very much for posting the additional demos. I\'m a little worried about the amount of noise reduction you\'ve had to use on the samples. It would appear that some samples are still quite noisy and the ones that are not have quite obviously had some serious eq applied (not unlike a dolby system).

In its present state the piano whilst sounding utterly beautiful, is to my ear very muffled by the noise reduction.

If you would prefer to continue this discussion via private email, please let me know and I\'ll write to you direct.

Regards,
Stephen.

[Michiel Post]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sapkiller:

Where and when can I buy this?
Will it be available in Europe? Worra?

Bjk

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thanks for the nice words.
The library is distributed world wide by Tascam, and they have their distributers all around the world.
When? February.

[ChrisAxia]

Hi Bruce & All,

Thank you all for your complimentary posts about my piano playing! Bruce, your stuff is excellent. I\'m planning on mocking up one of the simple cues from the film I scored a few bits for. Just piano, strings and vibes. It will be interesting to compare with the real thing! Unfortunately, I won\'t be able to post the real recording for you guys to compare as I obviously do not own the rights to the score recording (you\'ll just have to see the film this summer!). The piano used BTW in Sony\'s studio here in London was a Fazioli (I think 9\'6\"?). It was miced inside with the lid closed, even for the intimate pieces and there is one note that just jumps out everytime, and is actually painful to listen to. I was very surprised when I heard the final mixes! I think the Post version I\'m gonna do will sound better!!

This piano has re-kindled my passion for playing. No joke! I thought so when I first got the Gigapiano, but it didn\'t last long, then again with the Trachtman, which I still enjoy and can work well in Pop stuff too. But with Michiel\'s Steinway, I really feel for the first time that I am sitting AT a beautiful sounding piano.

Bruce, I have a friend with an A90 and he reckons it\'s got one of the best Midi note ranges, so I\'m sure you\'ll be fine. I use an Alesis QS8, which I like very much, but I\'m sure you\'ll get great results with your A90.

Best Wishes,

Chris



[This message has been edited by ChrisAxia (edited 01-24-2002).]

[Michiel Post]

In reply to John Grants question about the patches, here is the info:

PMI Classic Steinway D (2.1 GB)
This instrument must be considered the main instrument of this set and is best suited for any musical context. It has more character and realism than any other sampled piano we\'ve heard. The recording was left without any processing other than level optimisation and a little eq to remove unwanted frequencies, (no limiting, no compression or expansion) to ensure the purest piano sound possible. The samples have no loops, they have rich resonant pedal down samples, release-triggered soundboard resonance and an amazing wide dynamic range. Listen to the rich world of overtones beautifully captured in these recordings.
The Programs

PMI Steinway D Classic: This is the basic patch, that will be further referred to as the “Classic” patch. This patch has 4 velocity groups (P, MF, F and FF) for sustain up, 4 velocity groups for sustain down samples and 4 velocity groups for release triggered samples. This patch offers additional control over the release triggered samples by the modulation wheel. Actually, the modulation wheel gives offer the choice to hear less release triggered note-off samples and increase the normal EG release time a little. With the modulation wheel all the way up, you get to hear no more release triggered samples, but hear the prolonged release time of the normal samples. NOTE: When the release time with the modulation wheel up is too long you are advised to open the file in the giga editor and change the EG setting
16 Layers PMI Steinway D Classic; This patch has 16 velocity groups. It uses all the sample layers (PPP, PP, P, MF, F, FF, FFF) and has additional layers to create smoother transitions between the layers. You hear the sustain pedal down samples only for a rich ‘warm’ sound. The velocity ranges are chosen to allow smoother transitions between sample layers. Filters are used where needed to make the transitions between the pseudo layers even smoother.
8 Layers with release PMI Steinway D Classic: this patch uses 8 velocity groups (with the PPP, PP, P, MF, F, FF and FFF samples) and uses 4 dimensions for the release triggered soundboard resonance samples. The samples used are the sustain pedal down samples as they have more character and warmth.
8 Layer with sustain PMI Steinway D Classic: This patch uses 8 velocity groups (with the PPP, PP, P, MF, F, FF and FFF samples) and has both sustain pedal up and pedal down samples. The sustain pedal switches between them in the normal way (it chooses the sample after pressing the pedal). This patch lacks the release triggered samples to allow for realistic sustain pedal playing.
PMI Steinway D soft: this patch is based on the “Classic”patch but uses different velocity settings, so that it will always sound soft, mellow, no matter how loud you play the keyboard. This should be used when a piece asks for a soft to medium sound.
PMI Steinway D : this patch is based on the “Classic”patch but uses different velocity settings, so that it will always sound loud, no matter how soft you play the keyboard. This should be used when a piece asks for a loud sound.
* the next two patches work with VIRTUOSO TM
PMI Steinway D Classic Virtuoso sustain pedal: This patch is the basic “classic” patch but the switching between the sustain and non-sustain samples is performed by a real-time cross fade between the two samples. The samples are layered and the sustain pedal switches in real-time between the layers.
8 Layers with release PMI Steinway D Classic Virtuoso sustain pedal
This patch is the “8 Layers” patch but the switching between the sustain and non-sustain samples is performed by a real-time crossfade between the two samples. The samples are layered and the sustain pedal switches in real-time between the layers.

This info is also at: http://www.postmusicalinstruments.com/CD/Patches.htm (\"http://www.postmusicalinstruments.com/CD/Patches.htm\")
Michiel Post

[Michiel Post]

Bruce just added another one of his great piano + orchestral demos for the GRANDIOSO PMI Steinway D.
Check the demo page for the latest composition, simply called ‘Piano & Orch II-ISD2”. I love this one! Thanx Bruce.
http://www.postaudiomedia.com/demo.html (\"http://www.postaudiomedia.com/demo.html\")

[Michiel Post]

I would like to thank Kip from Bardstown Audio for his kind words and sharing of his vision on the sampling process. I agree totally with him that the Steinway is the worst kind of instrument to sample. The instrument we worked with was in absolute top/condition. The piano technician responsible for this did an amazing job during the whole recording process. Apart from taking care that each and every note was tuned right, so that the strings sing as one note instead of a bunch of strings each with slightly different tuning, he also managed to reduce the artefacts while striking notes. He adjusted the intonation when a note didn’t quite match the criteria of PPP, PP, P, MF, F, FF or FFF as intended. This alone was an incredible effort. Sometime we recorded more than 20 strikes before the end take was successful. The work that goes into this kind of procedures and attention is easily rewarded by the improvement of the resulting samples. When you listen to the samples you can actually hear an instrument instead of listening to a ´reasonable´ recording of the instrument. We managed to make the instrument come to life. When you listen to the samples and you are not in the direct sound field of the loudspeakers it’s presence in the room is incredible. You actually believe the instrument is playing in the room where the speakers are! I think that is the best proof of its quality. I have fooled people and, I heard this comment from beta users also, who didn’t believe these were sampled piano pieces. The matter of noise and noise reduction should be seen in this light. When you normally record a Steinway in a studio you may be forced to place the microphones inside the lid and even close the lid or put a blanket over the whole piano to avoid noise and rumble. When a classical recording of a piano takes place you’ll see the engineer always keeps a 2 meters distance from the strings no matter what the noise and room implications are. This choice is purely based on the nature of the sound that a piano note produces. Each note is generating waves that are two times longer that the length of the strings. In the case of the 2-meter bass strings the waves have a length of 4 meters. When placing microphones inside the piano, close to the strings, you will end up with a nice clean sound without too much noise but you’ll lose the fundamental frequencies of the largest part of the strings in the piano. When I first listened to the Truan and Gigapiano recordings it seemed better to try to record the piano in the classic setting, with enough distance to enable the true sound to be recorded, not just a small part of it. The downside, noise, must be considered. We solved the noise problem by using the best possible microphones, conversion etc. The noise that is there does not disturb the overall impression of a true piano being reproduced.

Michiel

[UKSimon]

Question for Michiel.

The demos sound fab BTW.
When you were recording, were you using a person to play the keys?. If so, how did you measure the velocity of the key strikes in order to generate the number of layers and also, how did you manage to ensure that the same velocity played for the PP layer (for example) for one note is the same as another note.
Did that made sense?
Just interested

Cheers
Simon

[Bruce A. Richardson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by UKSimon:
Question for Michiel.

The demos sound fab BTW.
When you were recording, were you using a person to play the keys?. If so, how did you measure the velocity of the key strikes in order to generate the number of layers and also, how did you manage to ensure that the same velocity played for the PP layer (for example) for one note is the same as another note.
Did that made sense?
Just interested

Cheers
Simon <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I\'m not Michiel, but I think the process is actually a lot more organic than that.

Since an acoustic piano will never play the same way from key to key, even if it is perfectly maintained, likewise it is difficult to say that \"a certain keyforce equals a certain velocity\" in the sampled instrument.

I have done quite a few non-commercial multisamples of various instruments for my own private library. The way I have solved this problem is to record MANY alternate strikes for each note. Then, when constructing the layers, I use whatever sample works best.

For instance, I recently re-sampled my conga drums. For each articulation on each drum, I recorded probably 50-60 separate strikes. After trimming all of them, I placed all the samples of each type on the screen (in sound forge), then saved them one by one, using filenames like \"hi tone -14.3 dB.wav,\" \"hi slap -4.6 dB.wav,\" \"mid tone -3.0 dB.wav,\" etc.

When I built the actual sample in GigaStudio, I simply mapped the \"best sounding\" strikes of each type from the bottom up according to their recorded levels.

A piano is a slightly different application, since it must play well from note to note melodically, but it really follows the same rules. In the end, it doesn\'t really matter how you struck the original instrument (within reason, of course) as long as the timbre of the final mapped instrument stays consistent from note to note within its dynamic range. There are times when seemingly mismatched samples will provide a better instrument than closer matches. Matter of fact, one can do a LOT of smoothing out between the various layers within the GigaStudio editor. Sometimes with a problem layer, it actually sounds better to eliminate the layer and stretch the surrounding areas to cover it. It\'s a very subjective science. But all in all, it\'s the end result that matters. If it sounds good, it IS good.

Despite the fact that they seem rather inert, pianos are horribly difficult to sample. The recording session is absolutely critical, because a piano is an ever changing entity. It is made up of thousands of very organic, interrelated parts, each of which changes constantly and affects the overall tone of the instrument. Even if one were able to perfectly reproduce the mic\'ing and tuning, the same piano is a different sounding instrument from week to week. It will respond differently, and have a completely different overtone balance. Even the humidity in the air can change the tone enough to make it sound different from one day to the next. It\'s not something you would notice in a standard recording session, but in a microscopic multi-sampling, the difference can be enough to destroy the project. For this reason, piano libraries require a very well conceived plan. A person must be able to sample the instrument completely and quickly without missing anything, because there is simply no going back. The piano that existed last week no longer exists--it has become a different instrument.

Anyone who makes a great sounding sampled piano has accomplished a challenging and difficult task. Much respect to Michel, Kip, Hans, Warren, and all the people who have done this difficult work. It is truly a labor of love with a great time investment required...an investment that might take years of sales to repay.

Best regards,
Bruce

[UKSimon]

Thanks Bruce.
It\'s obviously not a job for the faint hearted.

Cheers

Simon

[Michiel Post]

Hi Bruce,
Thank you for your kind words.
The way you describe is more or less how we recorded the library. We had days with up to 20 takes for each note (!!) untill everybody was absolutely satisfied that we had the intended articulations (PPP, PP, P, MF, F, FF and FFF). During editing I found that only 5 velocity layers were possible due to space limitations. So we switched to use PP, P, MF, F, FF and only took the ultra PPP and ultra FFF when they were needed. This way the whole fits in the 2 GB limit for each Gig and still has the best connecting articulations.
Best,
Michiel Post


[This message has been edited by Michiel Post (edited 01-24-2002).]

[john g]

\"A labour of love,\" and \"not for the faint hearted\": but the end result of sampling must provide huge satisfaction when it \"works.\" Because when everything works out the results can be stunningingly accurate, as we have seen. When things don\'t work out, on the other hand, the results can be unlistenable. The piano\'s got to be a fickle friend to the sample makers.

None of the piano samples for GS are \"unlistenable.\" But I\'ve heard some synth pianos that, compared with the latest GS piano samples, fit the bill. Even the best in the business, Roland, Yamaha, General Music, et. al., must be looking over their shoulders.

[Duncan Brinsmead]

I\'m wondering if there is a good way to get the full piano with all dynamic layers, including release and sustain in a sequencer playback. One could load two gigaPianos.. one with the soft layers and one with the loud. The notes would get sent to one track or the other based on the velocity level. This would also require that the two piano patches be exactly callibrated to match, such that they were smooth across the transition velocity.

Or perhaps one could have a release trigger only patch. One would play a track with the max layers and sustain, then copy the track to a second that played only the release triggers. This might be easier to set up.

I\'m curious just how much smoother the velocity transitions are when playing with more layers.

Duncan

[Michiel Post]

Hi John,
I listened to all major digital piano\'s from the big companies you just mentioned at NAMM last week. Believe me, they are way behind anything like Gigastudio\'s performance. The best in my ears is Yamaha with several instruments that have a remarkable sound considering they use only 89 MB of memory for the 5 layers of samples. Nevertheless, their basic principle, working with RAM based samples, and deriving notes from the source samples is old-fahioned and should be considered a dead end street. Period. Gigasampler technology offers us (both the developers and the musicians) new pespectives to get a \"natural\" sounding digital grand piano. My company, PMI, is working on a prototype that will be presented at Frankfurt Musicmesse in two months that is based on the Giga technolgy and my piano samples. I can assure you this instrument performs better on all aspects that matter to a professional musician than any of the existing digital pianos out there.

Best,

Michiel Post

[Michiel Post]

Hi Duncan,
Your idea is not new. Warren did his 8 layer piano in such a way but abandoned this path as he found there are not enough dimensions available in GST right now. Splitting 8 or 16 layers over several gig\'s and having a smart plug-in decide which layer (=gig) to play is a difficult task from the developers point. You have to be able to make live updates on all the gig\'s that are involved to match cross-gig parameters and such. This is just not practical at this point.
In my new library I tried to do this by combining 16 layers of velocity with a seperate Gig for the release triggered layer as you suggest. I believe Warren did the same with his library.
For the ideal situation I hope for the next big update of GigaStudio to find a workable solution to the multiple gig set-up issue.
I spoke with TASCAM developers at the NAMM convention and I\'m very very confident they will come up with amazing new features that will help us to get even better results.
I can\'t go in details here but consider the Giga platform as getting better and better thanks to the huge efforts from the TASCAM people.
Michiel

[Franky]

Well i have to say Michiel, your piano sounds gorgeous, i just received Kip\'s Imperial Bosendorfer today and i must say the quality and care put into these new libraries is quite incredible, Michiel your demos sound really awesome, good luck with the library, a new standard in Piano sampling for sure.

Kind Regards,
Franky
Vintaudio Prod. www.vintaudio.com (\"http://www.vintaudio.com\")

[This message has been edited by Franky (edited 01-25-2002).]