Independent Film

[Francis Belardino]

Any one composing for Indy Films?

Are you using samples? (GOS, VotA, AO, etc.)

Can you share some insight on the process?

I was made an offer. A bit nervous. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

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Francis Belardino
fbelardino@audiovisionsonline.com (\"fbelardino@audiovisionsonline.com\")

Sound Designer
Audio Visions, LTD.
Wilmington, DE.

www.audiovisionsonline.com (\"http://www.audiovisionsonline.com\")

[Damon]

Go for it Francis! A relationship starts with the director and composer. Who knows, this guy could be the next up and coming director. Even if it\'s for free, do it.
Talk about music with him, see what he\'s into.
He\'s gonna be telling you what he wants most likely in the scenes, so sometimes things you write and think are good, he might not like (which can be annoying). That\'s part of the job though. Fight out your ideas with him if you stand behind them strongly since you are the composer and he\'s the director. You might not always get what you want, but remember it\'s your name that goes on the credits for \'Music by.....\'
Use the best samples you own and do the best mock-ups you can.
I\'ve done some cues for very small films on the east coast (mostly film school student stuff), but only through the internet. So I have just sent music to directors hoping they like it and they edit the cues themselves.
I did work with a guy here in my town on a surfing video for a major surf company that turned out pretty cool.
He wanted an opening to the video with ethnic voices singing and a dark drone with strings and bells underneath to portray the spirituality of some of the different lands he went to all over the world like Indonesia, Austrailia, etc. Kind of like the song \"Passion\" in Peter Gabriels soundtrack to \"The Last Temptation of Christ\"
Can you tell us what the film is about?
Good Luck! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif



[This message has been edited by Damon (edited 01-07-2002).]

[Francis Belardino]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Damon:
Can you tell us what the film is about?

Thanks for your reply.

The Underground Railroad and the Delaware connection to it. Also, as I am sure you know, this thing may never even get off the gound http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Anyway, so do you feel it can be pulled off with samples. I would think so... movie budget dictates samples or real, ya know.

Are there composers out there using the samples we all have?

[jubal]

Francis,

I am working on one now. He is a good friend so the relationship helps out in the process. It\'s a horror/suspense film that takes place in an old house. The primary libraries are GOS, SoV, TotalPiano, Drone Archeology, DD Woods and Brass, Vocal Planet (there is a flashback scene to an archeological dig in the Middle East...I just got this library and it rocks), and AO Brass/Effects for the cool orchestral effects.

The director is still in storyboard mode, but he has filmed some experimental footage. I am actually early in the process. I am currently working on two themes for the film that revolve around the two main charaters, a boy that lives in the home and an old man who lives next to him.

Is it possible. Have you rented any movies at Blockbuster that went straight to video? Man, some of the music in those are terrible. That\'s what got me interested in doing this in the first place. A resounding YES, it\'s possible!! Go for it Francis.

[Francis Belardino]

Excellent! Horror flick http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Sounds cool.

Let me ask this. I may be moving into a stronger role as a composer, as opposed to a sound designer, in the future.

In fact, I am working on the website now.

What level of time constraints do you see with this type of project and how much music do you create for it?

Also, what is a good fee to charge, if any? Like Damon said, \"Do it for free\"... just to get the credits, you know?

Thanks in advance for all of your help?



[This message has been edited by Francis Belardino (edited 01-08-2002).]

[Francis Belardino]

Any additional input we be a huge help.

Thanks all.

http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[Damon]

How big of an independent movie is it Francis? What kind of budget do they have for music?
Take these into consideration when talking money with them. Is the budget big enough to hire real players or just use samples?
Do some mockups for them and if they think that the samples aren\'t cutting it, then you will have to ask them to maybe add a few \'real\' players or entirely all real players.
Also, take into account that you need to make some money also.
I guess it really comes down to how big their budget is for music and what they want.
Hope that helps a little.

[gkmarino007]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Francis Belardino:
[B
What level of time constraints do you see with this type of project and how much music do you create for it?

Also, what is a good fee to charge, if any? Like Damon said, \"Do it for free\"... just to get the credits, you know?
[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How many minutes of music are needed by the film? How long does it take you to write and produce a minute of music? Multiply one by the other and decide what that amount of your time is worth. Dont forget you will have to re-write and/or revise alot of music.

If you are new to scoring you may not be able to command alot of money, but you should try anyway. You need the experience, but the film needs music...and if the film has distribution then someone is making money and it would be unconscionable not to be paid SOMETHING.

A rate survey done by the Film Music Network says the composer fee range on \"guerrila\" indie features in 2000 was $5000 for low budget, $20000 for medium, and $30000 to $50000 for high. (these are package deals, including all costs for musicians, transfers, studio time, etc). If you do it for less then you should try to retain ownership of the music (hell, you should try anyway). At the very worst, you should work on deferred payment, not free. If they ultimately make money, so should you.

Hope this helps.

Gerard Marino

[gkmarino007]

Oh yeah...no matter what you ultimately agree on...PUT IT IN WRITING. That way there are no misconceptions.

If you want to be a film composer then you should just take a deep breath and score this thing like it was your last act on earth.

GKM

[Francis Belardino]

Bravo!! Well put!

I am not new to scoring/composing. I work in Post Production as a Sound Designer/Composer.

I am always asked for 30: 60: 3:00 minute spots/stingers... 1-3 version of.
I have not composed 60 or even 30 minutes straight. This is why I am asking. This is why I ask myself if I am up to it.

It\'s a leaning curve.



------------------
Francis Belardino
fbelardino@audiovisionsonline.com (\"fbelardino@audiovisionsonline.com\")

Sound Designer
Audio Visions, LTD.
Wilmington, DE.

www.audiovisionsonline.com (\"http://www.audiovisionsonline.com\")

[fmfgs]

hi Francis
One of the most important factors in doing film music is the quality of communication between composer and director / producer. There are so many things you have to agree on:
- do you have to establish a certain time (historical)
- is there any music / sound on screen you have to integrate
- should the music speed up / slow down a sequence
- do you need a theme for the main characters
- what kind of space should your music create
- what music the director would choose if he had no composer
that list can go on and on.
Since you hardly ever have more than a month to finish the music, every misunderstanding in communication at the beginning will lead to big stress in the end. If ever I have some time of, I would like to develop sort of a specification sheet to improve the communication process...
God luck ... and keep it simple!
fmfgs

[Francis Belardino]

I couldn\'t agree with you more. Even in post scoring (stingers/production elements) communication is king.

I will never forget a project we had done here at the studio. One guy handled the sound design and I did the music. All they told us was, \"make it sound like 2001 A Space Odyssey but not like that beacuse we dont care for it\" http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

I love my job! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[noenoeil]

Hi all
I write scores for french movies and the process seems to be exactly the same as indicated above in the USA.
The first thing I do when I\'m hired is to understand perfectly the musical tastes of the director. Then I take a black large pencil and I write \"No Problem\" on my forehead, then I quit the political/marketing domain and I do exactly what I want, as long as it stays near of what I understood of the director\'s taste. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif
I won\'t talk about money here because of the differences between countries (copyrights mostly).
Back to the topic : I began scoring short movies (a lot), for free, it\'s the best \"school\" ever...
In fact I just post this message to quote Danny Elfman (extract from one of his interviews with the EMU team), what he said here is very helpful :

1- \"If you just wrote the best bars of your life, and if you are not prepared to see them cut in the final mix, don\'t plan to score films\".
2- \"4 weeks to score a major movie is not enough? Don\'t plan to score films\". http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

My memory is weak with english language, so here is the link to the complete interview : http://www.emu.com/artist/d_elfman/interview.html (\"http://www.emu.com/artist/d_elfman/interview.html\")

Greetings from Paris
noenoeil

[This message has been edited by noenoeil (edited 01-15-2002).]

[fmfgs]

hi noenoeil
since I am in Paris right now, why not go for a demi pression together? If you are interested, leave your phone number at 01 530 99 151 and I call you back
Rene
fmfgs

[noenoeil]

Sure Rene !
I just called but there\'s nobody home right now, I\'ll try later. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif