Help with Solo Strings

[runamuck]

Ive recently installed DD Solo Strings and also have loaded the updates for all instruments.
What am I missing. I cant figure out how to play a note with any velocity variation. Each note I hit plays back with the same intensity no matter how I strike the key.

Can anyone help?

Thanks in advance

Runamuck

[Hans-Josef]

Hello,
take a look at the Xsample Solo Strings:
Vol. 5, Vol. 10 & Vol. 11, great variety of playing styles, many velocities...

Ciao,

Hans-Josef

[Dis]

Hans-Josef: Xsample 10,11 are non-vibrato, it\'s a pity! I think they would be the best if they are vibrato! The only cello vibrato from older volume is great, but the sound of 10,11 is.. maybe a bit strange (good, but vibrato is vibrato)

[thesoundsmith]

Thanks, Dis!

you may have just sold a sample set for Hans! I need non-vibrato solo violin. (Please, mother, I\'d rather do it myself!) http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Vibrato is (or, IMHO, should be) dependent on tempo. Sampled vibrato doesn\'t give you that choice.

Dasher

[KingIdiot]

Yah but LFO vibrato\'s sound like poo poo http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Best solution is to have both http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

Plus you can time stretch samples with vibrato to get slower vibrato that still sounds natural.

And with the time stretching tools out there now its quite possible to get good results. I\'ve had some great results just fooling around with the demo of Melodyne (this is the way to go, IMHO for tempo control of vibrato....too bad its yet ANOTHER step, in building a realistic sound). It however is NOT the way to go in terms of adding vibrato to a non vibrato sample.

All that being said. The demo of the Xsample strings still blows me away.


BTW, runamuck. I think the DDsolo strings are sampled at one velocity in the current version. There is a planned \"upgrade\" or \"version 2.0\" if you will. Its supposed to be sampled similar to the DD solo Woodwind and Solo brass. Which will be a good thing http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

Also, Gary Garritan has a planned solo string library.

None of this probably helps in ficing the \"problem\" you have tho ; Is it that the sounds all play at the same volume or that they jsut all play the same sample at different volumes? I dont have the library so I\'m not sure how its set up.
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Really...I am an Idiot

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 01-04-2002).]

[Hans-Josef]

Hello,
we choosed non vibrato, because its much more flexible to use. Ok, you must work on the sound (with controllers).We hope that the LFO\'s in GigaStudio will be better in the future. We have very good vibrato results in our EMU-machine. The LFO\'s have random functions, you can add pink noise and you can change speed and others in realtime. If these things comes to GigaStudio a non vibrato set is the best choice.
Ciao,

Hans-Josef

[Dis]

runamuck: I know the problem you\'re talking about. It can be fixed this way:
In GSEdit select the whole instrument (all regions) which doesn\'t respond to velocity, then go to \"Response\" tab, select \"Velocity response Curve\" as \"Nonlinear\", \"Release Velocity response Curve\" as \"Linear\", set both Dynamic ranges to the middle (just between high and low) and Release trigger decay one point from the middle to the left (fast). Then click on Apply response (all regions of instrument must be selected of course). That\'s all, then save and the next time when you load it, the instrument is normal velocity-responsive.

[thesoundsmith]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>
Yah but LFO vibrato\'s sound like poo poo
Best solution is to have both
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree that the best solution is to have both, but I don\'t use LFO for vibrato on a solo (except deliberately electronic patches).

I usually play vibrato on solo instruments with the pitch controller, it\'s way more expressive and detailed.

Another option I used to love back when an Arp 2600 was my primary synth: There was a small board (made by PAIA, I think) that incorporated one of those cheap \'synth oscillator\' chips designed for really bottom end system. I designed an LFO (simultaneous triangle, sine, saw, pulse outs) and attached it to the 2600 behind the panel. Two knobs-speed and \"pulse width\", except pulse width also skewed the other waves! Sine looked like an ocean wave, triangle/sawtooth with separate slopes. At around 6 Hz it made a gorgeous vibrato.

Dasher

[KingIdiot]

If you were to compare real vibrato to any MIDI controlled vibrato...expecially on a solo string....you would hear the poo poo difference http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

even with random LFO (to pitch and volume) with speed and depth control, or real time pitch control.

Wihtout comparing to a real vibrato sample, of course MIDI vibrato can pass, but vibrato is such an \"art\" in the realm of string playing. There are much more intimate details and nuances that occur that simple volume and pitch data can not recreate. On a wid instrument, depending on the instrument and samples...perhaps, String instrument I dont think I\'d ever be happy with non vibrato only...even if it does give me more flexibility in tempo/depth it will destroy the sample\'s character and remind me its fake. For short ending note vibrato, I could possibly live with it, but for sustaining vibrato? I might as well use my Roland Orchestral board

No offense Hans, believe me I listened to all your new demos and I STILL want xsamples..in fact the whole set\'s moved up higher on my list, since I\'d be getting SO MANY instruments.



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Really...I am an Idiot

[thesoundsmith]

King, that\'s what I said at the top of the post!

I play vibrato with the pitch bender, or now on my Kurzweil 2500, with the ribbon controller. It\'s much more natural and expressive. If you use a Roland AX-1 and play it somewhat upright, the pitch ribbon is placed perfectly for string-style vibrato gestures. Feels very natural, and really works well, and sounds exactly like you want it to.

I only use LFO vibrato for sounds that I WANT to sound electronic. My old Arp 2600 had a center-zero area in the pitch bend knob so you couldn\'t sweep it properly, so I used that LFO kludge.

Dasher

[KingIdiot]

I know dash http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

I was commenting on the mention of the EMU that Hans made http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

i agree that ribbon controllers are the way to go for MIDI vibrato. For Glissandos, my Roland Gutiar synth is really nice...great for horn rips and falls. Breath controller, form what I hear, is the way to go for volume/expression.

I cant wait for my Ztar, it has a \"joystick\" that has 4 way control. I can assign volume/filter control to one direction and pitch to another. should be nice. It also has a neck strip that I can assign to pitch...still not sure how that works tho.

sigh.....possibly february sometime....If all goes well....too bad I\'m a Want it, have it now kind of guy!

Anyhow, I admit with the right amount of reverb and the right piece of music MIDI controlled vibrato isn\'t so bad.

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Really...I am an Idiot

[dandean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by runamuck:
Ive recently installed DD Solo Strings and also have loaded the updates for all instruments.
What am I missing. I cant figure out how to play a note with any velocity variation. Each note I hit plays back with the same intensity no matter how I strike the key.

Can anyone help?

Thanks in advance

Runamuck<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Go to the editor, select all and set the response to Non-linear. This should do the trick.

DD

[thesoundsmith]

King, I hope I didn;t come off sounding POed in that last post (the bang (!) came off a little over the top, sorry \'bout dat-really wasn\'t meant that way. OTOH, I had to trace half the thread to find Hans\' EMU comment... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif

I have to agree, no matter what you do with \'automated\' vibrato, it won\'t sound like a real player. For me, this is not ALWAYS a bad thing (though it usually gets between me and the feel.)

But my old phase-angleable (say what???) LFO really did have a unique character (take an analog LFO 5-6 Hz sine, run it thru a lag processor, to hear what I mean, but I did it for about $8!)

It\'s all music, tho. I just got Michiel\'s Prepared Piano, and thanks to a comment he made in another post (no, there\'s no intentional pun-Michiel, are you SURE you don\'t want to change your name to Smith or something???), I have a whole new way of thinking about prep piano (using a prep set midied.mixed with the piano part.) Not nearly \'music\' in the 12-tones, all together now, a-one and a-two way of thinking, but the result is really COOL http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/cool.gif

Dasher

[This message has been edited by thesoundsmith (edited 01-05-2002).]

[Dark Mercenary]

Does anyone know where I can get the sheetmusic for the song \'The Ring Goes South\' E-mail me if u do.