No response to CC#01

[Larry G. Alexander]

I can't get the Garritan Authorized Steinway to respond to CC#01 when I use it with Sonar 8. Also, the proportional sustain does not work at all. It's either full off or full on with no in-between.

Are these known issues or am I the only one who is having these problems?

Thanks and regards.

[Jeff Hurchalla]

Hi Larry
If I recall correctly, you've got the Steinway Basic, which by design doesn't make any change of release sample volume in response to CC01 - simply because Basic doesn't use release samples. This may change in the future, but for the moment release samples are a Standard or Pro feature.
The proportional pedal does function somewhat right now, but the original implementation doesn't address some of the most important things about proportional pedaling, and so it's something I've been working on fixing, probably for v1.05. Fyi, the sooner release v1.04 will fix problems some people have had under certain configurations/sequencers with sustain resonance.

[Larry G. Alexander]

If that is the case, then this is useless to me! This shortcoming wasn't brought to anyone's attention as far as I know.

How is it possible to put any expression into renderings without the use of CC#01? If I had known about this, I wouldn't have bought it.

Will this be corrected in the future or am I just stuck with it?

[DPDAN]

How is it possible to put any expression into renderings without the use of CC#01? If I had known about this, I wouldn't have bought it.

Hi Larry, I know you already know this, but since a piano is a velocity triggered (percussion) instrument, there was never a need to control modwheel for natural sound.

The velocities determine the sample triggered in all version of the Garritan Steinway.

Jeff decided it would be a nice feature for Standard and Pro version users to be able to control the "release samples" with the mod wheel. Ideally, this ability to control the release triggered samples, is used properly when the modwheel is set to a desired level and left there for the entire performance.
Even though CC1 mod wheel is continuously variable, this is not something that should change during a performance.

Since release samples are the samples that contain most of the room ambience, some users complained that the hall it was recorded in was too evident, even in the "under lid" samples.

By setting the modwheel to a position that eliminates the release samples, it also eliminates the room's reverb.

There is a big difference between the Standard and Pro versions compared to the "basic", hence the additional cost.

I still believe the Garritan Steinway is miles ahead of any other sampled piano.

Maybe Jeff can further address your question.
Dan

[Jeff Hurchalla]

I think you might mean cc07 or cc11? cc01 is mod wheel, which is currently used in pro and standard versions for controlling the release sample volume, and the mod wheel control of release sample volume is new as of v1.03.
If you meant cc07 or cc11, it's likely to be a fairly easy item that I most likely can add for v1.04, which will be out in a few weeks.

[Larry G. Alexander]

I think you might mean cc07 or cc11? cc01 is mod wheel, which is currently used in pro and standard versions for controlling the release sample volume, and the mod wheel control of release sample volume is new as of v1.03.
If you meant cc07 or cc11, it's likely to be a fairly easy item that I most likely can add for v1.04, which will be out in a few weeks.

I'm talking about CC#01. With almost every sampled instrument that I own, I use it for note attack. Are you saying that I could use CC#11 for the same purpose?

I don't use a music keyboard for entering notes, therefore I don't use a modwheel, of course.

[Larry G. Alexander]

Thanks, Mr. Dan, for your message.

Best,

[rbowser-]

Is this all straightened out now? - Larry, you've used the Pianos in GPO and JABB, and like all percussion instruments except some recorded drum rolls, those have always had their expression volume controlled only by velocity. So what you have working in the basic Steinway is just as in the Pianos you've already used in the other Libraries.

Mod wheel controlling the release samples has been explained here on the thread - a new addition to the other versions of the Steinway.

Randy

[Larry G. Alexander]

Is this all straightened out now? - Larry, you've used the Pianos in GPO and JABB, and like all percussion instruments except some recorded drum rolls, those have always had their expression volume controlled only by velocity. So what you have working in the basic Steinway is just as in the Pianos you've already used in the other Libraries.

Mod wheel controlling the release samples has been explained here on the thread - a new addition to the other versions of the Steinway.

Randy

The velocity DOES NOT WORK with the new Steinway in Sonar 8. At least for me it doesn't. I always tweak everything I write in the piano roll view of Sonar by changing the velocity of notes. That function does not work with the new Steinway as it does with all of the other sampled instruments that I own.

[rbowser-]

Larry, this thread has been about CC1 and the Steinway. Now you're saying the Velocity doesn't work. - Did you mean to be talking about velocity from the start?

Randy

[Larry G. Alexander]

Both of them.

[rbowser-]

Hello again, Larry

OK, it's been established that cc1 has never controlled the volume dynamics of any Garritan Pianos, or any other percussion instrument except the drum rolls. So that's not an issue. It's been explained on this thread that the other two versions of the Garritan Steinway do use cc1 to control the level of the release samples, but that's a different matter.

You work with velocities in the PRV, but of course with the rest of the Garritan instruments, changing their velocities doesn't change their volume, it changes the attack of the notes, from soft and slow to hard and fast. And then cc1 controls the actual volume.

But to not have your Steinway responding to velocity - now that's peculiar, because velocity is the only parameter controlling expression in the instrument.

I noticed in your piece, "Pianetta" in the Listening Room, that the Piano seemed to be at one constant dynamic level - this is exactly what you're talking about it would seem.

Something is amiss here. There are a few different velocity curves in the Steinway, and I think it's best to keep that flat - The problem has to be elsewhere.

It's certainly the first report I've seen of someone having trouble with the Steinway Basic in this way - We have to get to the heart of this!

Randy

[Larry G. Alexander]

I appreciate your offer of help. Thanks.

Sincerefully,

[Haydn]

Velocity should definitely be working for the Steinway in Sonar 8. I'm using both and it's working properly on my system. Not quite sure what would cause it to not work off hand.

Jim

[Larry G. Alexander]

Velocity should definitely be working for the Steinway in Sonar 8. I'm using both and it's working properly on my system. Not quite sure what would cause it to not work off hand.

Jim

I am puzzled too. :confused:

Thanks for your message.

Regards,

[fred Holmes]

Hi Larry
I'm running the Version 1.03 Steinway Standard version with only the "Classic" samples available - Not really sure if that's the "BASIC" version you have.
Anyway
Try it in standalone mode and using the mouse, trigger a note from the "Front" (nearest the player's position)of the key and then trigger at various points as you move back towards the keyboard cover. This emulates different striking velocities and should sound very different as you move from the key front to the key back.

If that's OK then it seems that the Steinway and samples are loaded OK and the problem may be elsewhere. (in Sonar ?)

Fred

[Larry G. Alexander]

Hi Larry
I'm running the Version 1.03 Steinway Standard version with only the "Classic" samples available - Not really sure if that's the "BASIC" version you have.
Anyway
Try it in standalone mode and using the mouse, trigger a note from the "Front" (nearest the player's position)of the key and then trigger at various points as you move back towards the keyboard cover. This emulates different striking velocities and should sound very different as you move from the key front to the key back.

If that's OK then it seems that the Steinway and samples are loaded OK and the problem may be elsewhere. (in Sonar ?)

Fred

I have already tried that velocity feature and it works OK. I also discovered that the velocity works in some of my piano works that feature the Garritan Authorized Steinway and doesn't work in others, even though all involve Sonar 8. (?)

The Basic version that I have features only one perspective.

Thanks for your message.

[rbowser-]

Larry, I'm in the process of trying to get some info that might straighten things out for you.

In the meantime, could you possibly do a screen shot for us to see? Piano Roll View, with a Piano track loaded, controller pane open below it with velocity being displayed? As much of the screen so all tabs and text can be seen? On my Vista laptop, there's a very snazzy tool called "Snipping Tool" which makes doing screen shots easier than ever.

I know you use the PRV all the time, so its not as if you're a stranger to it --But there's a remote possibility that with fresh eyes, maybe something will be seen which could reveal a problem.

Randy

[fred Holmes]

Hi Larry,
Just a thought...
Are the pieces that don't work earlier compositions originally using some other piano samples then converted to the Steinway or is there any other connecting links that would make some sense to clump the non working ones together?
Fred

[Larry G. Alexander]

Larry, I'm in the process of trying to get some info that might straighten things out for you.

In the meantime, could you possibly do a screen shot for us to see? Piano Roll View, with a Piano track loaded, controller pane open below it with velocity being displayed? As much of the screen so all tabs and text can be seen? On my Vista laptop, there's a very snazzy tool called "Snipping Tool" which makes doing screen shots easier than ever.

I know you use the PRV all the time, so its not as if you're a stranger to it --But there's a remote possibility that with fresh eyes, maybe something will be seen which could reveal a problem.

Randy

If I can figure out how to do this I certainly will. Stand by, please.

[Larry G. Alexander]

Hi Larry,
Just a thought...
Are the pieces that don't work earlier compositions originally using some other piano samples then converted to the Steinway or is there any other connecting links that would make some sense to clump the non working ones together?
Fred

Yes, I believe that some of them fit that description. I will go through them and check. Thanks.

[rbowser-]

Larry, as I recall you have a spiffy new computer. Windows I think? If so, click "Start" and type in "Snipping Tool," and you'll see where it is. For some reason it's something that one has to seek out, it's not readily apparent. But it's super easy to use, dragging across any part of the screen you want to capture, and then you save where you want. To post a picture on the Forum, you do need to upload it online and then link to it.

Meanwhile, I think Fred may be on to something there. Maybe something got screwy when you loaded in projects previously done with other soft synths?

Randy

[Larry G. Alexander]

Larry, as I recall you have a spiffy new computer. Windows I think? If so, click "Start" and type in "Snipping Tool," and you'll see where it is. For some reason it's something that one has to seek out, it's not readily apparent. But it's super easy to use, dragging across any part of the screen you want to capture, and then you save where you want. To post a picture on the Forum, you do need to upload it online and then link to it.

Meanwhile, I think Fred may be on to something there. Maybe something got screwy when you loaded in projects previously done with other soft synths?

Randy

Unfortunately, my computer is quite old. All of the panes in Windows are broken. :p Typing in "Snipping Tool" brings this response from the computer: "What the hell are you talking about? Why you...I oughta..." :)

[rbowser-]

AH, my mistake, Larry ---I guess I was thinking of how you've kept up with the Sonar releases, all the Garritan releases, and things like that, so I thought you had a newer computer.

So I made your computer do a 3 Stooges routine! "Why you...I oughta..!" hehe--Sorry 'bout that. The Snipping Tool was new with Vista I think.

BUT, screenshots have always been possible. Before Vista, it was a matter of clicking Alt and Print Screen - then using whatever image app you want to fix it up and save it. Like anything you copy, it's temporary in your clipboard, for you to do with as you wish.

In case you want this for reference, to use now, whatever--here's what I Googled up for you on doing a screenshot with pre-Vista Windows:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/tips/screenshot.mspx

It's a long shot--MAybe we could see something haywire if we could see your screen, maybe not, impossible to tell. But Something is goofy, that's for sure--Makes the 3 Stooges apropos to the situation!

Randy

[Larry G. Alexander]

Thanks for the info and link. I appreciate the help.

Best,

[fred Holmes]

Larry,
Here's another option.
email me the .CWP file of 2 of your projects (piano only if possiblr)
Clearly indicate which one is good and which one is bad.
I can't do anything this week but next week i'm headed for a cabin in the woods with plenty of time to investigate.
I have Sonar 8.3.1.372 (the latest AGAIK).
However I will only have dialup for that week so no long up/down loads.

Fred

[Larry G. Alexander]

Larry,
Here's another option.
email me the .CWP file of 2 of your projects (piano only if possiblr)
Clearly indicate which one is good and which one is bad.
I can't do anything this week but next week i'm headed for a cabin in the woods with plenty of time to investigate.
I have Sonar 8.3.1.372 (the latest AGAIK).
However I will only have dialup for that week so no long up/down loads.

Fred

I will certainly consider your kind offer and I thank you for it.

Regards,