KP2 GPO - selecting only one velocity layer?

[Sonare Coeli]

I've been working with the GPO Steinway and I have two quick questions regarding velocity layers:

1. How do I get GPO KP2 to play back only one velocity layer, regardless of the velocity level? In other words, how do I get GPO KP2 to still play on of the the round, less aggressive velocity layers when my velocity level is above the normal threshold, or vice versa?

2. At what velocity levels does the Steinway switch between the different velocity layers? From a post a made from way back, Haydn said there were 5 total velocity layers made from 2 recorded layers; the extra 3 being made from the original 2 using filters and some other edits.


Thanks so much in advance.



Tyler

[rbowser-]

Interesting request, Tyler.

I don't know off hand where the break is, but some experimenting would reveal the split point.

And I don't know if this applies to your situation, but in Sonar, using the MIDI FX utility for Velocity, one of the things that can be done is limit the top ceiling of velocities in a selection--which could be an entire track or piece. This is applied after the fact, but that doesn't matter for a recording situation. Record the track--decide what the top value should be - use the Velocity filter, and in a twinkling, none of the velocities go beyond that ceiling.

More often I scale velocities up or down by a percentage so that the intricate variety is retained, just on a different scale.

If you use Sonar, that's available. If you use notation - I haven't a clue. Other sequencer programs must have a similar velocity scaling feature.

Randy

[Haydn]

You would have to have the full version of Kontakt 2 or 3 to reprogram the patch to have just one velocity layer.

Jim

[Sonare Coeli]

You would have to have the full version of Kontakt 2 or 3 to reprogram the patch to have just one velocity layer.

Jim

Do you know where the breaks are for each velocity layer so I can restrict my velocity level to stay within the bounds of whatever level I want to work within?

Although I suppose I can just use my ears and find out myself... ;)



Thanks Randy and Jim,

Tyler

[rbowser-]

Tyler, I take it that you need this effect for live playback, or you aren't using software with a facility like the one I described? It just popped in my head that somewhere I've seen a MIDI FX plugin which acts as a MIDI limiter - lowering the ceiling of velocity data. Hmmm--where did I see that? Maybe something like that would help you, since all you really need is to avoid velocities that go into the loudest samples.

Randy

[Sonare Coeli]

Tyler, I take it that you need this effect for live playback, or you aren't using software with a facility like the one I described? It just popped in my head that somewhere I've seen a MIDI FX plugin which acts as a MIDI limiter - lowering the ceiling of velocity data. Hmmm--where did I see that? Maybe something like that would help you, since all you really need is to avoid velocities that go into the loudest samples.

Randy



I'm using Finale 2008. I just need to know the maximum and minimum velocity of each layer.

A midi limiter is a good idea, but I need a full dynamic range - unfortunately a midi limiter only flattens out the top (or bottom) end by bringing all velocities above the limit down to the limit. Since one of the pieces goes from 40 to 100 or so (ballpark), I'd need something more like a midi scaler, that adjusts all of the velocity data to fit proportionally within a smaller range. (i.e. something that takes that same range of 40 to 100, and then scales it to bounds of 10 to 30 - all of the velocity levels would have the same proportional relationship to each other within the smaller dynamic range.)

However, if I just had the break points for each layer, I wouldn't need any software to do it - I could just write my velocity natively and then bump the volume up later.


It would be great if I had full KP2 or KP3 - then I could, as Jim said, select only certainly velocity layers so that the volume level would change as I got louder, but the samples would stay the same, or stay within the three layers or so that I had selected.


The GPO Steinway is really excellent and it can be very realistic with some work, but the top velocity layer always seems to pop out a bit too much for my tastes. Personally, I need to learn to keep the range more narrow because massive volume fluctuations don't come across realistically or even pleasantly in a recording. Hence, it would be great if someone could tell me exactly where the break points are for each layer so I can better restrict my range.

Thanks so much for your help guys,

Tyler

[bigears]

Hi Tyler, I'm pretty sure you can do what you desire with the midi tool in Finale 2008. What you should try is this:
Select the MIDI tool.
Select the measures that contain the notes you want to alter. (drag select)
Select "Key Velocities" from the MIDI tool menu.
Select "Percent Alter" from the MIDI tool menu.
A dialog box will pop up and you can select the percentage of the original velocities you would like.
Hope this helps! John

[Sonare Coeli]

Hi Tyler, I'm pretty sure you can do what you desire with the midi tool in Finale 2008. What you should try is this:
Select the MIDI tool.
Select the measures that contain the notes you want to alter. (drag select)
Select "Key Velocities" from the MIDI tool menu.
Select "Percent Alter" from the MIDI tool menu.
A dialog box will pop up and you can select the percentage of the original velocities you would like.
Hope this helps! John

Thanks so much, that'll do it! Man, I've been using Finale for years and still learn something new every week, haha.

Now does anyone have the official verdict on the velocity levels for each layer? Or must I go fishing? ;)


Tyler

[rbowser-]

RIGHT on, John "BigEars"--That's the tool I was hoping he'd find. Exactly like the velocity MIDI FX tool in Sonar which I usually use to scale up or down by a percentage.

Great!---There ya go, Tyler.

Randy

[Sonare Coeli]

Now I'm off to find the break points between the velocity layers... :n:

[P.T.]

I've come up against this many times.

Play a slightly louder (higher velocity) note and it plays a different sample that doesn't fit in.

Some instruments that don't have enough layers will have a big change in the sound from layer to layer.

The options are to restrict the playing dynamics or find a way to shut off the velocity layers. Or go back and put in cc data for dynamics which is difficult to get to sound natural the way a player would just play instinctively.

If there are only going to be a few layers I would rather have them as separate instruments or key switched or else the option to choose which layer it will play.
This way I can get the full range of volume dynamics which I find more important that different velocity layers. Especially when they give us pseudo velocity layers using filtering. I'd rather have no layers than that.

Round Robin is also often a similar problem with samples that sound too different and make the performance sound like a poor player.

I'm finding more and more that I am gravitating towards smaller sample sets without a lot of bells and whistles.