Garritan Movie Challenge #6

[RustyCrook]

Hi Everyone,

I apologize for taking so long to get the next Movie Challenge going -- I've been swamped recently. The good news is that I've got a clip I'd like to propose. It's short -- being just over a minute, silent, and is likely to be in the public domain.

The clip I've selected is the trailer for "Clothes Make the Pirate" and is available on the Internet Archive:

http://www.archive.org/details/clothes_make_the_pirate

On the left hand side of the page one can download reasonably small versions (4MB). Perhaps someone can remind us all what the specs and format we need for the final product? Do we need to convert the original clip to other working formats? Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated.

On the topic of copyright, the company which releases the trailer offers the following advice:
http://www.sabucat.com/?pg=copyright (http://www.sabucat.com/?pg=copyright)
Is there a definitive way to look up if the trailer is in the public domain?

For a deadline, I'll propose end of day on Monday, June 22nd (time zone of your choice).

How does this sound to everyone?

Ken

[rbowser-]

Fun clip, Ken! In its brief span there are opportunities for quite a few different themes. I think it'll be great for folks to work with.

Here are the video project format specs we settled on last round:

Format: .mov or .wmv
Resolution: 320 x 240
Video Bitrate: 256 kbps
Framerate: 30 fps
Audio: 192 kbps Constant Bitrate 44.1 kHz Mp3

And at the site you posted, it says definitively that movie trailers of this age were never protected by copyright, so we're fine.

Thanks for getting this event going again!
Randy

[wrayer]

This looks great Ken - 'matey - Arghh!' This should bring out a lot of prate wannabe's!

best,
Bill

[reberclark]

ARRR! Ok so would anyone be willing to share their workflow in SONAR with a video file? I have converted the downloaded file to AVI and imported it into SONAR. SO far so good! I've identified and marked "hit points" on the timeline. Advice on establishing tempos, writing to picture (MIDI to picture) or any processes you might go thru would be invaluable to me in making my own workflow more efficient. I know I will learn something new from the wonderful folks on this forum!

[wrayer]

reberclark - Well, you ask a difficult question. There are many ways to 'sync' music to a video. I believe that is what you are asking. I use Finale which has a 'sync' option. I write a passage and then sync it to a portion of the movie. I believe this can also be done in Sonar, but have not done it. Tempos should be a result of the portion of the movie you are writing for, then in using the 'sync' feature you can get an exact match to the video segment. I know this sounds vague, but is a matter of practice and trial and error. I will try to codify this better with better instructions when I get a chance. Others here may have better suggestions and insights. Glad to have you onboard! Now don't walk the plank!

Bill

[reberclark]

wrayer - thanks for the insight! I also have Finale and will explore that option. Minimizing the "trial and error" part of it is what I'm trying to do now.

I am trying click tracks and timings to lay out a score and it's getting messy. If that's the nature of the beast then I will deal with it :). Most scoring I've done so far has been "wild sync" with no actual hard and fast "hits" to nail.

In the selected clip it seems to me that it goes back and forth from fantasy to reality and from "announcement cards" to action - trying to nail the timing of those cuts, then translating that to music timing, is a bear for me. I feel like I'm missing some essential information on this! Any info will help. Thanks again.

[rbowser-]

Well, Reeb - The little bit of scoring I've done so far (like the "Cyrano" clip) I've done in Sonar, not Finale. So, I don't think I'd be much help.

In Sonar, I just watched the vid and started playing. Adjusting clips to start when I wanted was fairly straight forward - right click adjusting the start time. I can't imagine trying to sync things up with stiff notation, but Bill somehow worked it out. All I can contribute is that if you have a way of improvising on a keyboard while watching the clip, then organizing your output - that, in a nutshell, is what I've done via sequencing.

Randy

[reberclark]

Well, Reeb - The little bit of scoring I've done so far (like the "Cyrano" clip) I've done in Sonar, not Finale. So, I don't think I'd be much help.

In Sonar, I just watched the vid and started playing. Adjusting clips to start when I wanted was fairly straight forward - right click adjusting the start time. I can't imagine trying to sync things up with stiff notation, but Bill somehow worked it out. All I can contribute is that if you have a way of improvising on a keyboard while watching the clip, then organizing your output - that, in a nutshell, is what I've done via sequencing.

Randy

Randy, I have both SONAR 7 and Finale - I can use either or both, so your SONAR insight will be invaluable to me.

I have converted the clip to .AVI (using Sony Vegas) and imported it into SONAR. It works great and I can improv to it. Things like "right click to adjust start time" are a little vague for me. Do you mean the start time of the video clip or the music? I cannot seem to slide the video on the timeline in SONAR.

Once I get oriented I think it will all be apparent to me, but right now coordinating all the variables has me at a loss. To be honest I tried to do this in Finale and it was just unwieldy for me. SONAR seems a better bet.

Please fill me on on your workflow etc. I have done "wild sync" projects in the past which worked well, but some advice on nailing some hits down on this one would be great.

Please don't assume I know anything - I sometimes will miss a fundamental that way!

[rbowser-]

H'lo again - Currently, my little studio is down for awhile, I'm not working on anything and I can't check on things with Sonar open - hence my vagueness earlier.

But it's good that you have Sonar to work in and can see how it's possible to improvise with the video playing to get your first ideas.

I do remember that you right click on the video pane - I nested it in the lower right via Tab view, so I could see the Track View above. Anyway, right click the video to program where you want it to start. That way you can have it starting in synch with the start of a measure. You can establish your opening meter, then leave 1 or 2 measures blank for counting in - and have the picture start exactly at the start of a measure. See? Then you're off to a clean start.

Otherwise, no you can't move the video in the timeline, and of course you can't edit the video in Sonar.

If you work in clips - those can be dragged in the timeline to match any hit points that are crucial. You need to be adaptive if the hits you're really wanting to get are just not making musical sense with the tempo and meter you've chosen.

My computer's acting up - related to studio down time--Gotta cut this short. Hopefully something in this is helpful!

Randy

[RustyCrook]

ARRR! Ok so would anyone be willing to share their workflow in SONAR with a video file? I have converted the downloaded file to AVI and imported it into SONAR. SO far so good! I've identified and marked "hit points" on the timeline. Advice on establishing tempos, writing to picture (MIDI to picture) or any processes you might go thru would be invaluable to me in making my own workflow more efficient. I know I will learn something new from the wonderful folks on this forum!

I've not worked with the following feature yet, but some versions of Sonar allow one to stretch a passage to a given time period, i.e. keeping pitch the same but changing tempo to fit the time period. I imagine that might come in useful if one needs music to align to a particular frame in the video.

Another technique one might consider is to have a general fade between two musical tracks as a way of easing into an abrupt video/musical theme change.

I've only used Finale2009 for scoring so far. I've found that by selecting a passage, one can drag it to align on any beat of the measure (up to the resolution set by your quantization setting). For large passages, I found that if the preceding bars were silent, I'd just alter the tempo or adjust the meter to help with the transition, i.e. a 4/4 --> 1/4 --> 4/4.

Ken

[reberclark]

Thanks guys, I think I have more of a handle on it. Randy, the advice on adjusting the video start time (and trim time) was very valuable. I was trying to find a way to accomplish that by "sliding" the video but this does that in a different way - with an offset. I can now start from with the first frame on a downbeat. It will make selecting a tempo and meter that line up on or near my identified "hits" much easier! Thanks.

[rbowser-]

"...I've only used Finale2009 for scoring so far. I've found that by selecting a passage, one can drag it to align on any beat of the measure (up to the resolution set by your quantization setting). For large passages, I found that if the preceding bars were silent, I'd just alter the tempo or adjust the meter to help with the transition, i.e. a 4/4 --> 1/4 --> 4/4..."

Good stuff, Ken. And all of those techniques work in Sonar also. So far in my limited scoring to video experience, there have also been a few instances when I've turned snap-to-grid features off so I could get a hit precisely on cue rather than a bit off, which can happen when sticking with strict time.

A technique you'll often hear in pro scoring work is that there will be a bed, maybe chord pad, or a rhythm track, which is continuous during a given section and the hits are added on top of that. It works to keep the mix continuous but with synched up special hits.

Also, one more item re: my vague "right click" message earlier - when you right click any MIDI or Audio click in Sonar's time line, you get precise information about where it starts and ends. You can use those display windows to change those parameters in teeny amounts, more accurately than dragging a clip with the grid turned off.

Randy

[reberclark]

Ahoy mateys! I be ready t' upload me scribblin's of noise on this here fillum projekt.

Do i need t' upload it t' me own holdin' cell an' then provide ye swabs with a link or what?

Arrrrr!

[reberclark]

Is the Movie Challenge still a go for June 22? :wow:~|

[Sonare Coeli]

Is the Movie Challenge still a go for June 22? :wow:~|

I would hope so! I'm excited to jump in again. I've been on a long break after the college semester ended for some rest and relaxation - now it's time to get back into some serious music work! (even though I suppose that's fun and relaxing too ;))

Maybe there will be an extension for more people to participate? I'd be just fine with the current date, but if there are more requests I'm sure Bill and Ken would allow some more time for more people to submit an entry.

Good luck and have fun!

Tyler

[wrayer]

We will post an upload address soon!

[reberclark]

We will post an upload address soon!

Yippee!)(~

[wrayer]

Ok and a big thanks to Sean Hannifin for offering us his site. Please send me (Bill) your entry for this contest and I will transfer them to WizardWalk hosted by Sean Hannifin.

I can accept large files at my email address which is:

wfrayer@centurytel.net (wfrayer@centurytel.net)

I will then use my file transfer protocol to upload them to the Wizardwalk site.

Deadline is June 22nd unless I hear outcries for more time.

Best of luck to all
And Thanks again, Sean)(~

Bill

[reberclark]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_8fu8R9rVIRg/SKC0fjlHOrI/AAAAAAAAAEM/dLUECsYlZOY/s320/TisMusicPirateFlag.jpg

ARRRR! On with the show!

[wrayer]

4 days to get your Pirate video sent in - Can't wait to see what you all came up with.

Bill

[RustyCrook]

Ok and a big thanks to Sean Hannifin for offering us his site. Please send me (Bill) your entry for this contest and I will transfer them to WizardWalk hosted by Sean Hannifin. --- Bill

Excellent! Thanks to Sean and Bill for handling the files and administering the challenge!

Just a reminder that in recognition of the international constituency of our forum, all time zones will be honored for the 11:59PM Monday, June 22nd deadline.

I'm looking forward to seeing the entries!

-- Ken

[wrayer]

Thanks Rustycrook, only two (or three days depending on timezone) to get your entry to me... Let's go - we got pirates to entertain...

Bill

[wrayer]

Tick,,,,Tock,,,,Tick,,,,Tock,,,

One day to go...

[wrayer]

The entries have been sent to Gary to set up as a poll. Hopefully that will be done shortly. Good luck to all.

Best regards,
Bill

[RichR]

You know the saying? "Where's the beef?"

Where's the vote? Just wnat to do my part since I didn't participate this time. :)

[wrayer]

Mr. Garritan has the ball. We are awaiting his posting. Patients is a virtue I don't have so I blindly do things before I think. I guess that makes me an oxymoron.

[reberclark]

Maybe Gary has his hands full with GIGA and the launch of the new GPO and it will take some time to get this poll rolling. Any chance of knowing when it might be up?

[wrayer]

You're right, reberclark, Gary must be busy. He has all the stuff, he just needs time. I'll let the forum know when it's up and running.

Bill