CCs from Finale 2009 not making it to midi file

[RichR]

I had this in the tips and techniques section which is probably the wrong place. So, here it is again for anyone who can possibly help.

Okay, I know I have discussed this before with some of you. But I guess my age has gotten the best of me because I can't remember and I need help!

I want to save a piece written in Finale 2009 to a midi file so I can work on it in Sonar HS6. The notes, cc1 and cc7 save just as expected. What I am not getting (and Finale online manual says I should by default) is slurs cc64 (which I do change from Finales cc68 before I save the file) nor and of the tempo changes and human playback stuff. I would guess somewhere in my Finale setup a switch or tic box is not set up properly and for the life of me, I know not where!!!!

I have taken Jeff Turner's suggestion (which he so kindly gave when I posted in the other topic area) and went to Plug-ins/Playback/apply human playback. But that did not do anything related to the retention of the CCs (like slurs) not being carried over into the midi file.

Can anyone help? After all it doesn't make sense to re-enter something you already put into the score. I want to tweak other CCs and not redo ones I have already laboriously put into Finale.

[lunker]

Hello Rich,

I'm not entirely sure that this is the problem, but ...

Finale will not recognize the Garritan instruments (and thus will not send the appropriate Human Playback information, including CCs and such) unless the instruments have been loaded. Just opening the Finale file is not enough - you have to actually load the instruments.

The easiest way to do this is to play the piece. You don't have to play it all the way through -- just hit play, let the instrument load, and then click stop after a few notes.

After that, all the CCs and such should save correctly in the MIDI file.

[RichR]

Thanks, I will try your suggestion. However, I believe I have done the save midi both ways. Just to be sure (brain isn't what it used to be:)) I will try again!

[Jeff Turner]

Rich,

In addition to my suggest about running the plugin, once in Sonar, you'll need to load the notation version of the instruments into Sonar for the midi information to respond as it did in Finale.

Jeff

[RichR]

Jeff, I can understand that about using notation version of the instruments but are they the same high quality as the full GPO and JaBB version?
I had thought that at one time I did have at least the slurs in midi notated correctly in the piano roll view as with CC#64. I do get all my CC#1 correct and CC#7 as well as velocities, but the slurs do not get recorded into midi as CC#64 or even CC#68 as Finale would like it. I am obviuosly confused. I just don't want to re-do that which I have already done in Finale. (I'm getting lazy as I get older :).)

[swinkler]

Rich,

I just got back from vacation and I thought I should chime in on this. You and I sent some PM's about transferring Finale's midi data to Sonar and the answer to your slur controller question was answered by one of the MakeMusic technicians. Here's the quote you sent me:



The short answer to your question is yes. Here are the steps I used to produce the change.

1. With the file open, click the speaker icon in the Playback Controls to open the Playback settings dialog box. Make sure that the HP style is not chosen as None.
2. Click the HP Preferences button > Instrument Techniques > plus sign by General Controls
3. Double click the Legato technique and change the controller to CC 64. Click Save and Close
4. Under the MID/Audio menu, make sure that Play Finale through VST is checked, and that your samples are correctly loaded in your VST.
5. Click File Menu > Save As > change type to MIDI file and save.

When you open the file again, the Sustain data will be attached. I checked this by importing the MIDI file back into Finale, clicking the MIDI tool, Double click on a measure so the graph appears, then click the MIDI Tool menu, check Edit Continuous Data, double click on a measure and you will see the graph change to one like the PDF attached to this file.

I hope that helps. I would also advise you consult the MIDI Tool and Human Playback chapters of the user manual for more detailed information on using these features.


I don't have the pdf file referred to, but hopefully this helps you out.

Steve Winkler

[Nickie Fønshauge]

Rich, you shouldn't change the legato CC to CC#64. As Jeff pointed out you'll have to load the Notation set in Sonar due to its different KeySwitch layout. Finale saves all KSs as MIDI notes 0-11 and only the Notatin set will respond to these. Also, the Notation set's legato CC is CC#68, which is Finale's standard GPO legato CC.

[swinkler]

Finale saves all KSs as MIDI notes 0-11 and only the Notatin set will respond to these.

That's an excellent point I completely forgot about.

Steve Winkler

[RichR]

I really appreciate all this dialogue. But, I am still confused on how I can get a midi file that, when imported to Sonar (or any sequencer most likely) will have slurs marked with CC#64. This is the biggest pain to go back in sonar and re-mark all the slurs as CC#64 when I have already marked the slurs with notational slur marks in Finale.

Steve,

Thanks for reminding me of that post. I had lost it and forgotten the details. :( I will give that a try and see if that helps. :)

Nickie,

It is so kind of you to offer some of the details to keyswitches and the difference between Finale and sequencer programs. I don't mind putting in my own keyswitches as I like to get that detail placed exactly and use some of the breath keyswitches from the jazz instruments for some background reality. (Even if I am not using the jazz instrument but just the breath on a solo wind instrument :)).

Thanks for the help and details everyone!!! )(~

[Michael_uk]

Hello Rich,

First let me say that I use Finale to prepare my scores then inport the MIDI file into Sonar without any problems. All my markings including phrasing, dynamics, articulations are all carried across in the MIDI file intact.

I should add that I never have to adjust any of the CC data in Finale at all; I just prepare my scores, assign Garritan instruments then export as a MIDI file.


Jeff, I can understand that about using notation version of the instruments but are they the same high quality as the full GPO and JaBB version?

From your quote above I think there may be a misunderstanding. Just to clarify, we are talking about the 'Notation Folder' in the Full Garritan libraries in KP2 not the Finale set of Garritan instruments bundled with Finale. The actual samples contained in the 'Notation Folders' provided with the full Garritan Libraries are exactly the same as the other folders. The only difference, as Nickie says, is that Finale saves all Key Switches as MIDI notes 0-11 and the Notation set's legato CC is CC#68, which is Finale's standard GPO legato CC. Only the Notation set will respond to these.

Below is a screenshot showing the 'Notation Folder' in KP2 which has to be used both in Finale and Sonar for your Finale score performance markings to work in the MIDI file.

http://www.michaelsroom.co.uk/addons/finale_notation_folder.jpg

In the instruments loaded in the right hand side of the window, you can see the letter 'N' prefixed to the instrument name, ie 'N-Flute Solo KS' This shows that the 'Flute Solo KS' instrument has been loaded from the Finale Notation Folder and not the 'general' Woodwinds folder. As I mentioned earlier, the instrument sample itself is exactly the same, it is only the Key Switch and some CC mapping that has been programmed specifically for Finale.

If you were already familiar with this then please accept my apologies; I'm just trying to help and I have obviously misunderstood. :)

I would repeat that, having worked for years the Finale/Sonar way via a MIDI file I have never had to change any CC data or Key Switch mapping in Finale.

I hope this has been of some help.

[Nickie Fønshauge]

Rich, in the attached image I have highlighted the important items:

http://foenshauge.dk/images/temp/Finale - GPO - HP.jpg

This is from F07 - it will probably look slightly different in F09, but I imagine it is essentially the same picture.

This setup should produce CC#68 markings around legato passages.

[RichR]

Thanks everyone! :)
Michael, I was indeed using the notation intruments, but it helps with your picture to re-inforce that.

Nickie, thanks also for reassuring me that the notational instruments are the same as my GPO and JaBB instruments and yes I was using those and not the Finale version of GPO.

I successfully got all the CCs present in my score this last time. I used all the suggestions and found one thing from all the nice pictures you displayed. I believe my problem was in the preference set up in Human Playback. I had fiddled around in that area clicking on different default setups and must have gotten one that was not set up for Garritan instruments. This is a guess since there were no real red flags or stars flashing. But, when I set the prefs to default and saved the midi file, VOILA, all midi CCs were present in the midi file.

DOH! - Finale has a big learning curve and I don't have a written manual. The manual is online and unfortunately, I am old school and would prefer and can comprehend better with a paper manual in front of my face! Staring at a computer screen glaring at me and my brain and eyes do tire quickly.

I appreciate all the help and now I can get on with messaging and caressing the CCs and feeling out of my music.