Is GPO ARIA Being Worked On?

[yairhol]

Hi,
Can anyone confirm if the GPO ARIA (GPO4?) is even being worked on and if it will eventually be released?
No updates since the new policy so it's impossible to know what's happening. Will it be out this year? How high is it on the priority list of the Garritan company?

Thanks.

[LFO]

Yes, it is currently being beta tested. It will be released when it is ready. :) I don't think it will be too far off. :)

-Kevin

[NeoDavinci]

I completely agree with Gary's new policy, but it only works when there are no statements as opposed to a sudden cessation of statements regarding a product that was supposedly imminent.

Going forward, great policy. For now, actual information please. :)

[DPDAN]

the manual is being proofed and edited,
so that tells us that the software is just
about ready for replication....

Dan

[AlanPerkins]

Yes it is certainly under vigorous beta scrutiny, and the manual is being developed, but I must warn everybody (And I hope this isn't giving anything away)...

It still doesn't make coffee.

Wait - I don't drink coffee...

[mixolydian]

Is there a single note demo ready yet?

[serenitymusician]

Wow, I've never seen so many moderators chiming in at the same time. This is way Cool! That's what's great about moderators...next best thing to Gary. And none of you are subject to the NEWT syndrome! Which means you can tell us all kinds of stuff. See, Kevin tells us it's being beta tested, which means it's no longer just a figment of me own wicked and insane imagination. And Dan...well, Dan you are as close to God in the mastering world so we know you wouldn't succumb to those wicked NEWT critters. Manuals are being proofed...way cool!)(~ And Dear Alan....it doesn't make coffee!!! How cool is that? No, wait a minute. I drink coffee!!! You mean to tell me the new GPO4 won't make coffee?!? Damn! You have no idea how much I was looking forward to sampling some Garritan coffee brew on ARIA! AAAAHHHHH!!!!!!


http://www.balloons.net/images/Inflatable_Cans_and_Bottles/big/Coffee%20Cup%20Inflatable%20-%20L.jpg

[Reegs]

It still doesn't make coffee.



But it does do Earl Grey )(~

[AlanPerkins]

What have I DONE???

:)

[AlanPerkins]

In all seriousness, I think I can safely tell you that there has been a lot of meticulous attention to detail - the beta process has been robust and has made sure that the initial release is as fine a product as anyone could hope for, living up to the standards we have come to trust from Gary and his team.

I can assure you the beta team has been working hard and these dedicated people have been pouring their passion for these fine instruments and related tools into GPO Aria to make it worth the wait.

[yairhol]

That's great to hear.
Thank you.

[bosone]

what about posting some images and some mp3 with the new samples!?!?

[Jaybee]

what about posting some images and some mp3 with the new samples!?!?

My guess is that would violate the NDA signed by the testers.

[serenitymusician]

But it does do Earl Grey )(~

Ah, that's just fine! I love Earl Grey. Can't wait until ARIA comes out and I can just look at my computer and say, "Tea. Earl Grey. Hot." Thanks for the heads up, Reegs!:)

[qccowboy]

Ah, that's just fine! I love Earl Grey. Can't wait until ARIA comes out and I can just look at my computer and say, "Tea. Earl Grey. Hot." Thanks for the heads up, Reegs!:)

can't you picture Gary saying "Make it so"?

[mixolydian]

What about a sneak preview? :)

[rbowser-]

What about a sneak preview? :)
Here ya go - A visualized sneak preview of what GPO4 is like:
http://www.petswelcome.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/fireworks.jpg

Randy

[mixolydian]

With such a great fireworks what demo are you referring to?

[rbowser-]

Hi, mixolydian - I meant the fireworks as a visual way of saying that the only "sneak preview" available is to tell you that the new GPO4 is a WOW! Demos will be available once the new Aria and GPO4 are released.

As Jerry said in a post a little earlier, the team of Beta testers need to hold to the Non Disclosure Agreement which Plogue and Garritan asked them to abide by. We aren't free to talk about details.

I'll just repeat what other Beta testers have said on this thread - that we're now working on the manual, which is one of the final steps before release of the package. SO - it'll all come out soon!

Randy

[Raymond62]

Answer: Händels Royal Fireworks.

OK, when it is released can anyone or everybody in some sort of a contest make an aria for those nerds at Orcas Island? Thus, no orchestration contest, but a real ARIA contest, with lyrics, music, male or female voice. Idea?!?!? Any language will do.

Raymond

[Raymond62]

What have I DONE???

:)

Are you doing something? ~|~|

Raymond

[mixolydian]

Hi, mixolydian - I meant the fireworks as a visual way [...]
Randy, I didn't knew you're beta tester, the fireworks has another meaning now. :p

[rbowser-]

Randy, I didn't knew you're beta tester, the fireworks has another meaning now. :p
I was being too low-profile on that - of course my fireworks reply makes more sense now, I was being too obscure.

But things are as indicated on this thread - The manual is getting a thorough going over, and Gary told us that working on the manual is always the final step. So - no way of knowing for sure when it'll all get wrapped up, but indications are that it really could be finishing up soon.

I gotta say - GPO in all its incarnations, from the first version to this new one, is just so darned great, isn't it though? Yeah!

Randy

[Raymond62]

The manual is getting a thorough going over, and Gary told us that working on the manual is always the final step.

Will this be a multilingual manual? :p


I gotta say - GPO in all its incarnations, from the first version to this new one, is just so darned great, isn't it though? Yeah!

....can't confirm, but does that mean that the sound of the new version is much better than the previous one? How about the solo instruments, e.g. solo violins?

Raymond
[who still can't get along with the STRAD (Serious Trouble Rendering Audio Data)]

[qccowboy]

so, any news on what the manual sounds like?

will we have as much depth of sound with page turns?

is there a staccato attack for when you slam the manual closed while rushing to try new features in GPO-4?

[rbowser-]

so, any news on what the manual sounds like?

will we have as much depth of sound with page turns?

is there a staccato attack for when you slam the manual closed while rushing to try new features in GPO-4?

:):) hehehe, funny, Michel--AND your post prompts me to say that the sound of the manual may be - Silent, or at the most, the sound your mouse makes when you click to turn PDF pages, because---

My understanding is that the manual is going to remain electronic, so that it can be a dynamically changing document, updated and/or clarified as needed.

But none of us on the Beta testing team are authorities on Any details concerning Aria and GPO4. We are simply end-user representatives, reporting to the developers how things go for us when we test the package, and we're also contributing ideas for the manual based on our experiences.

So, not being able to speak authoritatively on any issues, and also being bound by a non disclosure agreement, there's nothing else we can say really.

I know people are anxious to get the upgrade and are curious about what the new set-up is like. But questions have already been answered as thoroughly as they can be right now. We all need patience - everyone will be soon be seeing for themselves what the whole package is like.

Do keep in mind that the main thrust of this upgrade has been to develop Aria, so that Gary can be in control of his own sample playback engine. I think it's safe to say he'll be happiest when all of the Garritan libraries have been adapted to the new player. That means that much of the current work has been re-programming the GPO sample pool so that it functions properly in Aria. Then, there will be the big projects of adapting JABB and CMB to Aria.

Raymond, when you think about it, I'm sure that you actually Can confirm that GPO has worked very well for you as a library. I know you've been very dedicated to using it in your projects for a long time now, like many of us here.

Keep your eyes open - the development team is running down the final stretch.

Randy B.

[mixolydian]

We all need patience
Keep in mind that GPOA is announced to leap-frog existing libraries - with that in mind patience isn't really happen here. And we have to stay patience since ... uhh years? :D

[serenitymusician]

The new manual:

http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/0/P/1/1/ag_07ms6_shifter.jpg

[Chalfant]

Yes it is certainly under vigorous beta scrutiny, and the manual is being developed, but I must warn everybody (And I hope this isn't giving anything away)...

It still doesn't make coffee.

Wait - I don't drink coffee...

You live in a city with the best food and coffee anywhere in the world and you don't induldge!!!

Alan, how can this be? :confused: :)

[Garritan]

What about a sneak preview? :)Oh...If you insist... :p :D :p

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UuJrg_U8SNY&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UuJrg_U8SNY&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


John Williams Shreds. Link from Alan Belkin

[wrayer]

Great Gary, I didn't know the Aria engine could also mimick junior high bands - I can hardly wait....~|

[Garritan]

Keep in mind that GPOA is announced to leap-frog existing libraries - with that in mind patience isn't really happen here. And we have to stay patience since ... uhh years? :D Leap frog existing libraries?


http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:Qiu9EeCTvimggM:http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2JHys_wfwQ4/SbI4ZuKNxHI/AAAAAAAACt0/4PNTuCkaSY4/s400/ist2_5186722-leap-frog-cartoon%255B1%255D.jpg


Years - Only on a leap year :D

[trentpmcd]

Oh...If you insist... :p :D :p


John Williams Shreds. Link from Alan Belkin



What a fantastic example of micro-tonal music! ;):p

[rbowser-]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And GPO really CAN sound that realistic--if you study and emulate enough bad recordings!

NOTE TO GARY: Since we can't embed You Tube vids here, the only code really needed is the short version, like the below for this one you posted:

http://www.youtube.com/v/UuJrg_U8SNY&hl=en&fs=1&

Thanks for the huge laugh--that is HYSTERICAL!
Randy

[AlanPerkins]

Painfully funny.

[Josh]

oh man, the biggest laugh i've had in a long time :D :D :D...thanks Gary!! haven't commented here in a while (but i've been lurking), but that vid prompted a response

[GrahamKeitch]

Confirms what I always; JW is highly over-rated - but the samples sound like they're coming on just fine! Good luck Gary, LOL!

Regards, Graham

[reberclark]

incredibly realistic!

[Haydn]

Oops, someone found my recording of that piece with real instruments! Now I remember why I use samples.

Jim

[mixolydian]

Leap frog existing libraries?


http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:Qiu9EeCTvimggM:http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2JHys_wfwQ4/SbI4ZuKNxHI/AAAAAAAACt0/4PNTuCkaSY4/s400/ist2_5186722-leap-frog-cartoon%255B1%255D.jpg


Years - Only on a leap year :D

:p I like to come up with a quote from '05 to see why I'm a little anxious about GPOA:

As far as GPO Advanced. We are in no rush. We are developing new technologies that will again redefine sampling. These things take time. We just may leap frog anything else that's been done to date. (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?p=355455&highlight=leap+frog#post355455)

Add that to the other announcements and you know why I sometimes doublecheck your homepage. :p

[Garritan]

:p I like to come up with a quote from '05 to see why I'm a little anxious about GPOA:

As far as GPO Advanced. We are in no rush. We are developing new technologies that will again redefine sampling. These things take time. We just may leap frog anything else that's been done to date. (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?p=355455&highlight=leap+frog#post355455)

Add that to the other announcements and you know why I sometimes doublecheck your homepage. :pSince '05, the Strad and Cello were developed. They were innovative and did go beyond anything done before. That was what I was referring to and these libraries did redefine sampling. After Strad and Gofriller the hope was to extend to the other instruments. But since then, other things happened. We developed the ARIA player and acquired the Giga assets. We also developed newer and better technologies in instrument modeling. The best laid plans of mice and men.... To deflate further anticipation, realize it just may take another four years and if it is sooner that will be better. We'll see what happens.

Best,

Gary

[mixolydian]

Thanks, Gary. I'll shut up and see what happen in a few weeks or so. :)

Best regards

[Garritan]

Thanks, Gary. I'll shut up and see what happen in a few weeks or so. :)

Best regardsMixolydian,

Although GPO 4 is expected soon, don't expect the full GPOA anytime soon

Best,

Gary.

[mixolydian]

O.k., I got it, thanks so much.

[Garritan]

Thanks for understanding.

Gary
Recovering NEWT-aholic ;)

[NDEE]

Mixolydian,

Although GPO 4 is expected soon, don't expect the full GPOA anytime soon

Best,

Gary.

Does this refer to GOS2?

What about the NAMM announcement of GOS2?

I'm confuzzzzzzed...

NDEE

[kanazo]

Is this concerning GPO ARIA as stand-alone or as an upgrade to GPO?

[AlanPerkins]

It is all quite simple.

Forget about GPOA (GPO Advanced).
Forget about GOS2 (Advanced strings).

GPO Aria is the only product currently in the final stages of being tested. Gary is right to not say anything further about the other products.

A lot has happened since NAMM.

I am sure Gary will make an announcement about GPOA and GOS2, and the other products he has previously discussed, when they are ready to be released or are no longer on his roadmap.

The transition from sample developer to software developer is a difficult one and Gary and his team have done an excellent job at making that transition. Some lessons have been learned about how long these new processes can take and about managing public expectations around.

Managing expectations can be difficult, especially with as passionate an audience as this one.

For now, everyone will do themselves a service by focusing on making use of the excellent tools available to us all today.

[yairhol]

What's GPO Advanced?

[Raymond62]

What's GPO Advanced?

I think it is The Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra....LOL

Raymond

[AlanPerkins]

What's GPO Advanced?

GPO Advanced doesn't exist.

It is a concept for a new version of the orchestra with more articulations, better solo strings etc.

There had been talk in the past of it being in production, but we need to recognize the reality that the world has changed and if there is ever to be a GPO Advanced it will be announced when it is ready.

[lintweaker]

Very good to hear GPO4 is really progressing nicely!
But the manual, who ever reads these things? If something does not work we just complain here :D just kidding of course

[qccowboy]

GPO Advanced doesn't exist.

It is a concept for a new version of the orchestra with more articulations, better solo strings etc.



I'm a tiny bit confused.
Doesn't the new version of GPO (announced as "imminent release") contain "more articulations"?

I'd be terribly upset if all that happened to GPO was the same sounds, the same samples, but a new player.

If all I am getting for my upgrade price is a new player (Aria), then I see no real reason to upgrade. If the player is all that is changing, then if anything, the "upgrade" should be a free download.

I am having trouble imagining that I will have to wait years to have a GPO with real string harmonics and col legno samples.

The Strad and Gofriller were both recently discontinued... I presumed (after spending good dollars on them mere weeks before they disappeared) that this was because the new version of GPO would include better solo strings?

[efiebke]

I'm a tiny bit confused.
Doesn't the new version of GPO (announced as "imminent release") contain "more articulations"?



Hi -

I know for sure that the newer version of GPO contains brass sounds from ProjectSAMM. This is worth the upgrade for me, to be honest. I'm not sure about the GPO Aria containing any newer articulations, though.

Also, if memory serves me correctly, I believe that the new GPO Aria player will have better usage of RAM.

I know that there's been a few threads about the new GPO Aria player that's come and gone over the past several months here. I believe that Mr. Gary pretty much outlined what will be included in the new GPO Aria player. A simple search might help answer some of your questions, hopefully.

And. . . like everyone else. . . I'm patiently waiting. I'm of the "All Good Things Come in Good Time" camp. To be honest, I'm happy with the Kontakt 2 Player version of GPO (and JABB and the rest). Even if the GPO Aria player never gets released (which, to be clear, is only a hypothetical situation), I'm a happy camper with the current player with the current set of instrumental sound libraries. But having those ProjectSAMM brass sounds would be very nice. :)

Ted

[Garritan]

I'm a tiny bit confused. Me too! :mad:

Doesn't the new version of GPO (announced as "imminent release") contain "more articulations"?

I'd be terribly upset if all that happened to GPO was the same sounds, the same samples, but a new player.

If all I am getting for my upgrade price is a new player (Aria), then I see no real reason to upgrade. If the player is all that is changing, then if anything, the "upgrade" should be a free download.

I am having trouble imagining that I will have to wait years to have a GPO with real string harmonics and col legno samples.

The Strad and Gofriller were both recently discontinued... I presumed (after spending good dollars on them mere weeks before they disappeared) that this was because the new version of GPO would include better solo strings?We never planned advanced string techniques for GPO. Although the player alone is worth the $49 upgrade. Better functionality, effects, very quick loading and better sound IMHO; there will be some additional instruments. We will include more brass (SAM brass), some choir sounds, more programming, extended ranges, etc.

GPO will not include string harmonics and col legno. Those techniques were in GOS and the upcoming GOS2 is expected to include them. GOS2 is expected to have advanced string techniques and better solo strings.

Best,

Gary

[qccowboy]

you know, I gotta take exception with one comment here: the concept of "advanced string technique". harmonics, col legno and bartok pizz. are far from being "advanced" techniques. they are about as standard as it gets, unless someone is writing only baroque pastiche.

[karvasika]

But they are advanced sample-library-wise. Most of the sample libraries only include arco, pizz. and some harmonics - if any.

[Garritan]

you know, I gotta take exception with one comment here: the concept of "advanced string technique". harmonics, col legno and bartok pizz. are far from being "advanced" techniques. they are about as standard as it gets, unless someone is writing only baroque pastiche.GOS2 is expected to include harmonics and col legno. GOS2 will also include advanced techniques and better solo strings. "Advanced" will depend on your experience and perspective.

GPO too was never intended to be a detailed library of every technique imaginable.

There's no end to techniques for every instrument. And it would be a slippery lope going there. Someone is always going to want some additional technique or effect. GPO is intended to give a good cross section of instruments and techniques, but not be overly detailed. There are many other orchestral libraries (over 25 of them) to chose from if more is needed.

Please note this is GPO 4th Edition. It is not GPOA. It is not GOS2.

Best,

Gary

[Garritan]

But they are advanced sample-library-wise. Most of the sample libraries only include arco, pizz. and some harmonics - if any.That's true. Many libraries only include bread and butter techniques. When we came out with GOS in 2001 we were the very first to include many string techniques that were never sampled before. It set the standard back then.


Best,

Gary

[Wheat Williams]

we need to recognize the reality that the world has changed

So the world revolves around Garritan?

[AlanPerkins]

So the world revolves around Garritan?

I thought the comment was clear. The world has changed. I wasn't for one moment thinking of Garritan as the world.

[yairhol]

How's the manual coming along?
Should I start a thread "Is the GPO ARIA manual being worked on?" :p

I've given up on the Komplete deal which comes with a reduced VSL orchestral library because I didn't want to miss out on the new GPO. Expectations are high on this hot part of the world.

[PenguiN42]

Just to clarify, will the GPO4 upgrade include vibrato control for the solo strings, at least? Because honestly this was the #1 feature to keep me waiting, and was mentioned in the initial email I got in December. Sorry if this is an obvious question, but all this talk about "this is not GPOA and not GOS2" is making me nervous.

Will this vibrato control be of similar quality to the Gofriller vibrato, with smooth realistic blending between various intensities and speeds? Or will it be a bit downgraded from that?

[Henry Buck]

There will be controllable vibrato of some sort.

[robh]

How's the manual coming along?


Hey Gary,

Stuff the manual!! Men don't read those things anyways!!:) Let us download the product now!!! We can always download the manual later. I still have birthday money from February held out for this upgrade!! ARRRRGGGH!!!

Rob

[NeoDavinci]

Hey Gary,

Stuff the manual!! Men don't read those things anyways!!:) Let us download the product now!!! We can always download the manual later. I still have birthday money from February held out for this upgrade!! ARRRRGGGH!!!

Rob

Agreed! I'm even willing to purchase with robh's money. :)

[robh]

Agreed! I'm even willing to purchase with robh's money. :)Hey. Wait a minute. . . :)

Rob

[Garritan]

There will be controllable vibrato of some sort.There will be controllable vibrato on some of the winds. As far as solo strings they will not be offered in the initial release of GPO4. We ran across some unacceptable problems and we need to redo the vibrato-controlled solo string patches. Rather than hold up GPO4 any further we decided that it may be best to omit them from the initial release and offer them in an update.

Best,

Gary

[earl j macey]

Gary, I think that is a sensible decision..

No matter how careful you, are some things are likely to require updates. Best wishes Earl

[PenguiN42]

As far as solo strings they will not be offered in the initial release of GPO4.

Well I must say this is disappointing. Effectively I've been waiting 7 months for a feature that's not even going to be included. Instead I have to wait longer for some future "update" or GOS2, whichever comes first. I have projects on hold right now waiting for a new solo string library, and they're getting restless.

I understand that some times things just take time and that unexpected problems can change the path of a project. I also understand that Gary has admitted his fault in talking about unreleased products too early. However, what really makes this a problem in my opinion was the discontinuing of the Solo Gofriller and Stradivari libraries last year, with a web site saying "a new string library will be available soon." I literally had my wallet out several months ago ready to buy them when I discovered they were no longer available. Due to the various announcements via email and in this forum, I decided to wait it out.

At this point however my patience is running thin. May I respectfully suggest putting the Gofriller and Stradivari back on the market, and offering an upgrade path to GOS2? Because as much as I respect the work Garritan has done, I'm ready to look into competing products at this point. I just can't wait any more.

[Garritan]

Penguin,

I can understand your disappointment and thanks for the way you expressed it.

We discussed at length whether to add the vibrato-controlled solo strings with the beta team. While there was great promise, they simply were not good enough and we decided to wait rather than release. Either way, we knew people would be disappointed.

I am unaware of any other string libraries offering vibrato-controlled solo strings, but if there is one now, it may be worth looking into. Still, the other features of GPO4 (the cool ARIA engine :cool:, ProjectSAM brass, etc) make it a compelling $49 upgrade.

As I posted on previous occasions, being a software company (ARIA,Giga, DSP, convolution, etc) is vastly different than being simply a sample company. It seems we should multiply time estimates by a factor of ten, or better yet, not make any estimates in the future. This is why we changed our policy of just announcing when ready. Although, I miss the periodic updates and letting people join me through the journey, I can see expectations being raised and unexpected delays being counterproductive, despite best intentions.

It seems there have been several more string libraries announced in recent weeks (one of them just released). With all the fine string libraries coming to market, it may be time to rethink our position and consider other avenues.

Penguin, it would be a good idea to look to another string library if they have that feature you want and if you need it now. I appreciate your patience and sorry to disappoint. It is my hope that when the strings do come out it will be worth the wait.

Best,

Gary

[PenguiN42]

Gary,

Thanks for your reply. I'm still puzzled as to why the Cello and Violin solo libraries were discontinued and continue to be discontinued. From my perspective, they fill a pretty sizable hole in the market (you're right about controllable vibrato being a unique feature) and you guys probably could have been making good money off of them during the wait for GPO4/GOS2.

Is it really a marketing decision to not compete with future products? Or was there something else going on like licensing issues?

[qbert]

I don't have the patience for programming a lot of "detail" MIDI strings (and thus have no interest in buying a "strings" library), but I have to say the only shortcoming I ever thought GPO had was in the string vibrato. I've always reeeeaaly wished I could control it. Count me in as disappointed as well. :(

Oh, well. Still looking to see what this Aria player is all about. Hope the copy-protection scheme isn't too burdensome! Having just gone through some hardware failure, I've decided to shed any software which is a PITA to reinstall. The Native Instruments scheme seems to be the smoothest way to recover from hardware failure IMO. Having just had a new logic board installed, it was very easy to go online and remove the "old" computer and authorize the "new" repaired computer. Took 2 minutes, tops. (And the 2 computer license is important to me too!)

[sakari.lindhen]

I posted this comment earlier, but dont remember getting an 'offical' answer, only someone agreeing with me, but I (once again) find myself in financial difficulties (cant stop buying musical instruments *()and books)..so i hope that when GPO4 comes out for download, we have a longer grace period to upgrade that for example EastWest allowed us with their Player upgrades (less than a month).

Concretely, I won't be able to afford the upgrade until after the first thurseday in September,:( so I hope that if it is released in the next few weeks we have until at least then to upgrade.

If this is NOT possible, would anyone like to buy a kidney?

[yairhol]

I'll buy your liver %-

[karvasika]

Gary,

Thanks for your reply. I'm still puzzled as to why the Cello and Violin solo libraries were discontinued and continue to be discontinued. From my perspective, they fill a pretty sizable hole in the market (you're right about controllable vibrato being a unique feature) and you guys probably could have been making good money off of them during the wait for GPO4/GOS2.

Is it really a marketing decision to not compete with future products? Or was there something else going on like licensing issues?

I can just guess, but I remember reading something on this forum earlier that Garritan didn't own the software patent (or some part of it) to the technique that was used in Gofriller and Stradivari to produce the morph between straight sound and vibrato ("sample alignment" or something). After they stopped working with the guy that owned it, maybe this the reason they don't sell it anymore? So maybe it was licensing issues?

Anyway, I'm basing this guess on old posts that may not apply anymore and maybe the reason is something else, too.

[Garritan]

So maybe it was licensing issues?
.... maybe the reason is something else, too.No. Licensing was not the reason and there are other reasons.

A few years ago we discontinued GOS for Giga when we made a commitment to Kontakt. Now we are now committing to the ARIA player and hope to release our strings for our new platform. It has just taken much longer than we imagined, but we'll get there.

Best,

Gary

[Raymond62]

.............With all the fine string libraries coming to market, it may be time to rethink our position and consider other avenues. Don't !!! I personally come to Orcas to make you change your mind the hard way. E.g. bottles of beer, a good Single Malt, Cubans.....:(


This is why we changed our policy of just announcing when ready. Although, I miss the periodic updates and letting people join me through the journey, I can see expectations being raised and unexpected delays being counterproductive, despite best intentions. Finally, good senses. Please, never launch and sell a product that isn't completely developed, like the Steinway. I still have some troubles with a lot of "tunky" notes - this word is not mine, I've read it somewhere in another thread. That's why I decided to buy another library, waiting for your Steinway to be "at the top".

But, there is only one Garritan company who sells complete orchestras at a reasonable price.

Go on with the good work,

Raymond

[serenitymusician]

Don't !!! I personally come to Orcas to make you change your mind the hard way. E.g. bottles of beer, a good Single Malt, Cubans.....:(
But, there is only one Garritan company who sells complete orchestras at a reasonable price.

Go on with the good work,

Raymond

Here! Here! I'll second that Raymond! I think back to the days when the only sounds I had to work with were out of a Radio Shack Color Computer! Yuck! But, hey, it was all I had! Then there came the Roland Sound Canvas. What a big change that was! There were a lot of usable sounds. Then I started using soundfonts and found a host of different sounds that I had been waiting to hear for a long time, like a much more authentic sounding oboe. Sure, there were other libraries around instead of soundfonts, but there was no way I could afford any of them, not at over $1000 a crack (or more). Then I got the first GPO library. What a huge difference! With GPO I've been able to create music I never would have dreamed of! I have written more music (and had it performed) since receiving that first copy of GPO than I ever did before.
Yep, I can't wait for the new GPO4. I can't wait for the new brass sounds. If I have any concern about the update it's how long it may take me to learn and utilize the new Aria player after spending so much time with Kontakt, but then again that's probably my own impatience.
So Gary, here's one on me (and if you come to Milwaukee it won't be just a picture):
http://www.golfportugal.co.uk/golfing-news/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/beer.jpg

Gary A.

[rbowser-]

Hi, Gary A.

"...If I have any concern about the update it's how long it may take me to learn and utilize the new Aria player after spending so much time with Kontak..."

As a Beta tester of GPO4 who's had the opportunity to try it all out - I can say with complete confidence that you're going to find using Aria 1000% more intuitive and easy-to-use than the convoluted and dense KP2.

I'm betting you'll open it up, take a quick look around, and be making music practically instantly. Really.

I'm excited and looking forward to seeing the inspiration you and the other users are going to get with it all.

Randy

[Raymond62]

....As a Beta tester of GPO4 who's had the opportunity to try it all out - I can say with complete confidence that you're going to find using Aria 1000% more intuitive and easy-to-use than the convoluted and dense KP2.

I'm betting you'll open it up, take a quick look around, and be making music practically instantly. Really.

I'm excited and looking forward to seeing the inspiration you and the other users are going to get with it all.

Randy )(~)(~)(~)(~)(~)(~)(~

The New Era is coming to reality, in other words I'll bless the day when we users don't have to read manuals anymore. That everything is really intuitive to users, I emphasize "USERS" because many programs/utils are purely written in a "programmers" way of thinking.

Raymond

[Wheat Williams]

The New Era is coming to reality, in other words I'll bless the day when we users don't have to read manuals anymore. That everything is really intuitive to users, I emphasize "USERS" because many programs/utils are purely written in a "programmers" way of thinking.
Warning. Rant ensues:

As a professional technical writer and non-programmer who has written user manuals, I get depressed when I read comments like this. Of course computer programs should always be designed to be easily grasped by end-users. This is where usability testing comes into play during the development process. That's the developer's responsibility. Of course there are poorly-written manuals that could be improved. The developers should be responsible for that too.

But the users have a responsibility also. There will always be a need for well-written manuals--as long as computer programs perform sophisticated functions that the user hasn't thought of. There will always be a need for users to read manuals in order to educate themselves.

A significant part of the problem is users who resent the idea of learning new things and solving problems by reading about them. Why did you become literate in the first place? Why did you graduate school? Is it so that you can disdain and refrain from reading instructions? Did you only learn to read so that you could read newspapers and novels (or post in discussion forums)? Are you going to encourage your kids to learn to read, while you yourself set a bad example by avoiding reading stuff that makes you think? The ability to understand written instructions is an essential skill in any job or endeavor. So RTFM (Read The *Fabulous* Manual). It's an important life skill.

Most programs could use better-written manuals. But when the users turn up their nose at the whole idea of reading a manual, the developer's task becomes hopeless, and users remain ignorant and frustrated.

Rant over.

[RichR]

Most programs could use better-written manuals. But when the users turn up their nose at the whole idea of reading a manual, the developer's task becomes hopeless, and users remain ignorant and frustrated.
As a side note, if all users read their manuals, my consulting sessions for home owners and small businesses would cease to be needed. :)

RTFM is important! The well written ones can help you in so many ways you didn't know the software could function.

[jmpaquette]

Warning. Rant ensues:

As a professional technical writer and non-programmer who has written user manuals, I get depressed when I read comments like this. Of course computer programs should always be designed to be easily grasped by end-users. This is where usability testing comes into play during the development process. That's the developer's responsibility. Of course there are poorly-written manuals that could be improved. The developers should be responsible for that too.

But the users have a responsibility also. There will always be a need for well-written manuals--as long as computer programs perform sophisticated functions that the user hasn't thought of. There will always be a need for users to read manuals in order to educate themselves.

A significant part of the problem is users who resent the idea of learning new things and solving problems by reading about them. Why did you become literate in the first place? Why did you graduate school? Is it so that you can disdain and refrain from reading instructions? Did you only learn to read so that you could read newspapers and novels (or post in discussion forums)? Are you going to encourage your kids to learn to read, while you yourself set a bad example by avoiding reading stuff that makes you think? The ability to understand written instructions is an essential skill in any job or endeavor. So RTFM (Read The *Fabulous* Manual). It's an important life skill.

Most programs could use better-written manuals. But when the users turn up their nose at the whole idea of reading a manual, the developer's task becomes hopeless, and users remain ignorant and frustrated.

Rant over.



What he said!

My view: Manuals should have two sections--Explicatory, and Advanced. The explicatory should clearly outline the basic operation of the program; the advanced should be a guide to the less obvious features, or "hints and shortcuts" or some such.

Unfortunately, developers know that many readers don't want to take the time to read the manual, and so they rely on "Help" files or all-too-brief user manuals.

To the topic of this thread: onward with ARIA.

RANDY: I'm glad you're having fun with ARIA. I'm underwhelmed with what I have: the limited edition that came with the EWI. After waiting anxiously for weeks, all day long, after NAMM, I bought the EWI so that I could find out what the fuss was about. It ain't nuttin', bro. Nor is the version that came with Songsmith. Work harder, give Gary more feedback, and just know inside yourself that your efforts as a Beta tester will be appreciated in the long run.


Joe

[Raymond62]

Warning. Rant ensues:

As a professional technical writer and non-programmer who has written user manuals, I get depressed when I read comments like this. Of course computer programs should always be designed to be easily grasped by end-users. ............

and the programs should be designed with the help of end-users and preferably by end-users.


........ But when the users turn up their nose at the whole idea of reading a manual, the developer's task becomes hopeless, and users remain ignorant and frustrated.
OK, I surrender. I also used the term RT?M. during my life in ICT. You and RichR, are right about that. Let us say this:

- I am a violinist. I want a legato, a pizzicato, a bouncing bow. In most manuals I have to go thru all pages to find out how to accomplish these. As if the writer AND programmer are saying by accident: if you add CC#x then it sounds as a spiccato, together with CC#y it suddenly is a spiccato followed by a legato. How on earth can anyone bake a cake from that?

- I am a pianist. I want legato without the sustain pedal. Again I have to go thru most pages to find out how to do that.

Make a manual short: e.g.

legato, see page 10
staccato, see page 12
pizzicato, see page 13
bouncing bows, see page 15
aggressive bowing, see page 17


and all further variations. And the programming should be in WORDS not in CC's! I never will have a discussion with a fellow musician like the text in manuals. I am talking about CC#'s and he is talking about that beautiful legato morphing into a fast marcato.

Raymond

[rbowser-]

Wheat and Rich - Those are really good posts that bulletin boards like this can't have too many of. Software users who refuse to look into the manuals that come with programs can lose out on so much and cause themselves a lot of grief and make them waste precious time.

All of us here who have been at the Garritan Forum for any amount of time have seen posts from newcomers who can't figure out why they can't get any sound out of GPO. Those folks never cracked the manual which plainly states over and over as that MIDI Controller #1 is the volume control for GPO, and that without using it, they won't get very far.

lol--Raymond, my humorous friend in The Netherlands. When I said to Gary A. that I can safely predict that he'll find Aria much easier to use than KP2, and that he'll be getting music out of it quickly and easily - I was speaking to him and everyone here who is not a newbie and already has mastered GPO to a good degree. All experienced users will be able to understand in short time how GPO and Aria work together. A newbie who still wonders what MIDI is, or what equipment he needs to make GPO work - those neophytes of course will need to do a lot more studying.

And ALL of us, experienced users and newbies, will benefit from reading this newly re-written manual for GPO. There are handy MIDI implementation charts, explanations of the new features etc - As Always, the manual will be an important tool.

The team of Beta testers wasn't given any special instructions on how to use Aria and this new version of GPO. I would say that we are a good representative of experienced GPO users - we understand more than just the basics, and that's true of most people here. None of us had problems working with what was given to us. It was all familiar enough that we could get going quickly and on our own discover what the new features and differences are.

And that's why I can say that experienced users will also have no problem understanding this new package.

But as Wheat said, it's childish to think good software will ever be created that doesn't require instructions. Truly instant-gratification plug-n-play tools which are supposed to do as much as music software does would have to be grossly simplified to not require a manual.

Just wait and see - As I said in the earlier post, I know from experience that Aria is much more self explanatory than KP2 ever was.

Randy

[qccowboy]

Actually, I spent years and years learning how to WRITE MUSIC.
I don't want to spend years learning how to master sound engineering to get that music to sound right.

What I love about using Finale and GPO RIGHT NOW is that I can use my life-time's training and apply it directly to doing WHAT IT IS I AM TRAINED TO DO.

I don't mind looking for SOME information in a manual, but if GPO Aria doesn't play the score I just spent months working on without my needing to "Read the Finale Manual", then it is no better than GPO-KP2.

The real issue here is that you are creating software for people who have ALREADY spent years getting Master's degrees and Doctorates in music. We don't want to have to get graduate degrees in computer-stuff too.

I agree that the manual should include descriptions with REAL musical terms, NOT words that sound like they were drawn from some William Gibson novel.

Don't treat musicians like idiots and talk down to them. Some of us have spent more time doing what we're doing than anyone else around. But don't talk in some foreign language either.

Technobable may sound cool to programmer types, but it means nothing to musicians.

[indianamusic]

I would add though, that sequencing music with VIs is a separate skill from composing. So is mixing and mastering. It might be a little naive (don't intend to sound rude here please know that) to expect GPO or any VI to just automatically work, without any investing of time to learn a completely different skill set. It would be nice, but is not really reasonable to expect.

My .02.

[rbowser-]

Hi, Michel

It sounds like you aren't believing me that Aria is much easier to use than KP2, but that's OK, you'll soon see for yourself that it is. You already know how to use GPO and KP2, as evidenced by your excellent recordings. I'm sure you'll be just as clever as the Beta team was - we opened up Aria and could see what to do. The greater clarity is apparent immediately on opening the interface. There you have all 16 channels laid out for you, unlike KP2 which began with just a few channels, and it wasn't immediately clear that you were supposed to construct your own custom mixer. In Aria, there are the slots already set up for you, and it's obvious how to load instruments and use the rest of the easy-to-use controls however you want.

Your premise isn't correct though, that music software is designed for people who have spent years in studying music composition. A huge percentage of music software users are hobbyists, or self trained people, many with no academic musical training. To have a level playing field, I think software needs to do the best possible job it can - and to make it an instant plug-n-play no muss no fuss thing would be to reduce it to the simplicity of programs like Garage Band, and that would be too limiting.

We Need tools which are as flexible and customizable as possible--and that automatically makes them more complex. I understand some people don't want to learn the most they can to make good recordings in their home studios, but it will always be the case that to get the most out of their tools, people Will have to either delve into the tech side of things, or not--in which case they can't expect software to do all the work for them and miraculously produce sophisticated results. To me that's like expecting to buy a canvas and a box of paints and expect the canvas to paint itself.

That's why manuals DO need to talk about how things really work - It can't all be expressed in musical theory terms. Without explaining what MIDI controllers to use, how to work with virtual mixers etc, then things are left vague and incomplete. Rebel as we may against the complexity of what we're doing - making recordings at home with our computers, it's living in Fantasyland to think we shouldn't have to learn anything.

All of this is theoretical debate. The only thing I'm saying on this thread is that Aria is a vast improvement over KP2 - it's much more user-friendly, and people with experience will find it an easy transition to make. Newbies will have more to learn of course, but there will be fewer obstacles for them than there were previously.

Good post, Charles - You put your reply up while I was writing a draft of this. I agree completely.

Randy

[Raymond62]

Actually, I spent years and years learning how to WRITE MUSIC. I don't want to spend years learning how to master sound engineering to get that music to sound right.

What I love about using Finale and GPO RIGHT NOW is that I can use my life-time's training and apply it directly to doing WHAT IT IS I AM TRAINED TO DO.

I don't mind looking for SOME information in a manual, but if GPO Aria doesn't play the score I just spent months working on without my needing to "Read the Finale Manual", then it is no better than GPO-KP2.

The real issue here is that you are creating software for people who have ALREADY spent years getting Master's degrees and Doctorates in music. We don't want to have to get graduate degrees in computer-stuff too.

I agree that the manual should include descriptions with REAL musical terms, NOT words that sound like they were drawn from some William Gibson novel.

Don't treat musicians like idiots and talk down to them. Some of us have spent more time doing what we're doing than anyone else around. But don't talk in some foreign language either.

Technobable may sound cool to programmer types, but it means nothing to musicians.

AMEN, which means "solemn affirmation".

Raymond

[qccowboy]

I would add though, that sequencing music with VIs is a separate skill from composing. So is mixing and mastering. It might be a little naive (don't intend to sound rude here please know that) to expect GPO or any VI to just automatically work, without any investing of time to learn a completely different skill set. It would be nice, but is not really reasonable to expect.

My .02.


I don't "mix and master".
I compose.
I prepare my score in Finale, add a few little invisible articulations and expressions to get it to sound the way I want (and yes, those actually use all-musical terminology, or at least terminology that is readily understandable by a musician).
Press "record to audio".
And voilà, rendering of the piece I have been working my buns off for the last three months.

THAT is what I am expecting of the sample libraries I have now spent over a thousand dollars on.

I want to spend my productive time composing.
So far, "Garritan products + Finale" has been good to me.

I can get a very good demo recording at the same time as I prepare the musical materials for the orchestra/musicians who will actually perform my work. This is always a plus.

As for "investment of time" to learn new technology, I don't mind a LITTLE learning curve. But to be perfectly frank, a product aimed at musicians (and Randy, there are a LOT of professionally trained musicians as well out there who use these products) needs to take into account that they already DO spend a great deal of time perfecting the compositional side of what they are doing.

If I could toss off a new piece in 15 minutes, then I guess I wouldn't mind spending some days or weeks learning a new software package. But I can't do that. I already spend lots of time, often months, on very brief passages, getting them just right. And I don't want to spend further months getting the demo to sound "just right".

Composition IS a full-time job for me. And I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
I also have no interest what so ever in becoming a recording engineer or sound mixer. The more is done "under the hood" for me, the more productive I can be. I happen to think that any product that is specifically AIMED at musicians (in this case, composers) SHOULD have as much stuff "just working". And I don't believe that's too much to ask.

As a quick note, I'd like to point out that right now, Finale + my Garritan products ARE fulfilling this role. They DO "just work". Simple as that. My renderings are my scores.

Honestly, I so rarely go into the Kontakt Player (I just load the instruments I want, all of one minute of set-up time) that I don't even realize it's there most of the time.

So basically, I don't care how much easier the Aria player is compared to the Kontakt Player. I am keeping my fingers crossed that the END RESULT, the demo I create, will sound BETTER with the new player. That is the only thing I am interested in. Not the bells and whistles that I don't want to know about.

[rbowser-]

Michel, my friend -

http://dysfun.files.wordpress.com/2006/09/chillpill.jpg

Randy

[indianamusic]

I too, get very nice renderings straight from Finale using GPO.
And I am grateful. Now and then though, I need to
"play" it myself in a sequencer to get just the right feel.
So we actually agree for the most part - we want GPO to work as well or better with Aria, and it sounds like it will do just that.

Charles

[Garritan]

We have been working closely together with MakeMusic to make sure GPO4 is working well. We are the folks largely responsible for playback in notation programs. Before then, notation was ignored by the sample industry. We have been working very hard together with Finale (and Sibelius and Overture) for five years in pioneering sample playback.

Our sounds have been included in Finale for the past four years. The ARIA engine itself is included in Finale 2009 and 2010. There will even be a special Finale 2009 upgrade to make sure those users can work with GPO4. The beta testers who have been using GPO4 in Finale 2010 are having a good experience.

We want to make sure that notation users have a good experience. But knowledge is still an important part of getting good results. Hope this helps those who are concerned.

Best,

Gary


http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr303/woodparrot/Dont_Worry_Be_Happy.jpg

[reberclark]

I compose fulltime as well. After composition I have found the challenges of a the new disciplines of recording and mastering what I have produced very interesting and enlightening. When I have a piece of mine recorded by a real world ensemble now, I can help produce the final product and communicate effectively and efficiently with the recording guys, which gets me a better recording and saves time and money.

I treat this phase as another tool in the arsenal. The skills I use in this "other dimension" of my music transfer to better and more efficient communication. It is somewhat akin to communicating with my publishers.

I published my own stuff for a long time and was happy to let someone else take it over! It was a discipline I was not interested in. Now I am learning another aspect of my craft - audio production. As I see it all it can do is strengthen and expand my skills.

I believe learning new things always helps me to remain fresh and helps keep my mind open. This is a fascinating multi-faceted art and the crafts that go with it are deep and satisfying. Explore! Delve! Create! Wonder! Be joyful!

[PenguiN42]

Well this conversation got a little derailed. I'll add my 2 cents anyway:

I'm a big fan of intuitive software that doesn't get in the way of the creative process. It's only natural that creative people want to get down to what they love to do rather than dealing with technical problems all the time.

That said, is there any difference between these two statements:

"I spent years mastering composition. Why can't I make my music sound good on this software without having to learn it first?"

"I spent years mastering the piano. Why can't I make my music sound good on this cello without having to learn it first?"

Software is a tool. Some tools require some training and study to get the most out of them. Sometimes, there are no short-cuts.

[DPDAN]

I don't want to spend years learning how to master sound engineering to get that music to sound right.


there it is right there!

Sorry to burst your bubble cowboy,
but if you don't understand, or even care to learn some of the important things about sound engineering, then your music is always going to sound like it was made with a computer.




The real issue here is that you are creating software for people who have ALREADY spent years getting Master's degrees and Doctorates in music. We don't want to have to get graduate degrees in computer-stuff too.

Face it, you are using a computer to make music, if you were using a computer to make a word document no big deal, but we are attempting to make MUSIC with a computer, and just because you know how to type, doesn't mean you can produce a nice Microsoft WORD document.

Dan

[qccowboy]

there it is right there!

Sorry to burst your bubble cowboy,
but if you don't understand, or even care to learn some of the important things about sound engineering, then your music is always going to sound like it was made with a computer.



Face it, you are using a computer to make music, if you were using a computer to make a word document no big deal, but we are attempting to make MUSIC with a computer and just because you know how to type, doesn't mean you can produce a nice WORD document.

Dan

no, actually, I write music that is to be performed by real live performers.

the "demos" I create with Finale and GPO are exactly that: demos.

I have no bubble to burst.

I'm happy when the demos sound convincing, but I'm certainly not going to spend months doing audio tweaking for a demo to sound better than the live performance.

And no matter how much engineering and tweaking you do with sample libraries, it WILL always sound like exactly that: a sample library. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[DPDAN]

tell us how you really feel, geez

[qccowboy]

tell us how you really feel, geez

you're absolutely right.
all the people who have chimed in with their condescending comments to me can say what they will, but you feel offended because I'm perfectly happy with GPO sounding like a sample library and have no illusions that it will ever sound like anything OTHER than that?

If GPO is marketed only to hobbyists, then that's one thing.
I'd love for it to be a tool for professionals as well.
And I would also love for it to continue being a tool that functions well within the context of a notation program.

There is FAR too much sneering going on in this thread by people who use DAWs and feel that somehow, that makes their approach superior. I think a bit of turn-around is fair play.

[Raymond62]

lol--Raymond, my humorous friend in The Netherlands. When I said to Gary A. that I can safely predict that he'll find Aria much easier to use than KP2, and that he'll be getting music out of it quickly and easily - I was speaking to him and everyone here who is not a newbie and already has mastered GPO to a good degree.

Me too, after having tried the demo version of something sinnfull.

Raymond

[Jeff Turner]

I agree with QcCowboy. I just want something that works. And the Finale/GPO combination does. Honestly, I'm skeptical about the Aria player. Right now I just load the samples into the Kontakt player and forget about them. How much easier can it be?

I also agree that sample libraries sound like sample libraries. When GPO was first introduced it was advertised as a musical sketchbook I believe. It does that wonderfully. It's convenient and a great tool to use, but once you hear your music performed by live musicians, you quickly hear the difference.

JT

[Henry Buck]

I agree with QcCowboy. I just want something that works. And the Finale/GPO combination does. Honestly, I'm skeptical about the Aria player. Right now I just load the samples into the Kontakt player and forget about them. How much easier can it be?
Not much easier. I think for users that just want to hear Finale play back their stuff, ARIA won't make much of a difference. The new samples are something to keep in mind though: there's brass from the ProjectSAM library, choir, and I think some other additions.

[swinkler]

Honestly, I'm skeptical about the Aria player. Right now I just load the samples into the Kontakt player and forget about them. How much easier can it be?

I have Finale2009 and I have to say the Aria player is much less taxing on my system than the Kontakt players. That is to say I get no hiccups in playback when using the Aria player. The only downsides with the bundled Aria player of course are the number of samples and some of the features I've started experimenting with like using aux sends to mimic instrument resonance and that sort of thing.

So I'm anticipating a victory with the Aria player in combination with Finale which is what I use too (and love by the way).

Steve Winkler

[AlanPerkins]

This thread is a demonstration of just HOW COOL this technology is!

Guys, get over the religious war for a moment and take a pause to pay homage to VISION!

As Gary subtly reminded us, Notation playback was nothing more than a thought experiment not that long ago.

From the various perspectives here, I think everybody is right, it's just that the combination of tools we use is different and the expected product at the end is different: I don't mean a difference in expectation of quality, I mean the fundamental product we are trying to produce is different.

The fact that Michel produces kick-butt music that is played by real musicians, and is honoured is really cool! And the fact that he uses Garritan's Personal Orchestra to help him achieve that is really cool too.

The fact that Dan uses the same orchestra amidst a tangentially related set of tools, (with a high degree of overlap), to produce kick-butt renderings, using his awesomely tuned ears, is also really cool!

The fact that Randy can produce a kick-butt musical theatrical performance that is noticed and picked up in a country with which America has traditionally had troubled relations is really cool!

The THING that they each produce is totally different - not the style, not the quality but the actual expected END PRODUCT.

The fact that The Garritan Personal Orchestra (and related technologies) allows them (and everyone else here) to realise their personal vision is something that even a decade ago would be considered miraculous.

I actually agree with Raymond that we shouldn't have to read a manual. Right now where technology is at, we should be reading them. But why can't we think the music and have it rendered perfectly from our thoughts??

One day... But only if we CHALLENGE what we have today, as Gary Garritan and others once did.

Cheers everyone!

[rbowser-]

That's a wonderful post, Alan - Thank you for it!

I didn't understand how this thread somehow became some kind of sequencer vs. notation debate. I think we all know that's an endless circular tangent that never gets anywhere when it comes up.

It was excellent that you gave several examples of the technology being used with different approaches by different people, and that the wonderful thing is that we're able to do these kinds of things at all - things that wouldn't have been possible 10 years ago.

And of course the list of Forum members who creatively use Garritan Libraries and other computer software in their own unique way to create projects that are important to them is a list that is very long and inspiring to contemplate.

I'm rather a rather old school MIDI keyboardist, and that means there's a particular paradigm that makes sense to me - I think of my keyboard tied into hardware and soft synths as one gigantic instrument. And so sequencing is where I started and is still what makes the most sense to me. Others have adapted technology for their own needs, writing scores for live orchestras, producing pop music, creating music simply to express themselves - it's an ever flowing river of different approaches and reasons depending on each person's vision and personality.

I for one hope we never have something I just Think into to produce the music I want. That one giant instrument concept is important to me - I want to feel it and put in sweat and effort to play it. Maybe I'll be a very old man who still bangs on keys while younger people put on some kind of helmet and Think their music - but I'll be happy to be doing things the way I want.

Thanks again, Alan, and everyone on this thread.

Randy B.

[reberclark]

http://www.highlightskids.com/Stories/Fiction/images/F1097_bubbles.jpg

[reberclark]

http://leafandlime.hobix.com/pic/Ellen-Allien-and-Apparat-Orchestra-of-Bubbles.jpg

[etLux]

There is an ancient Polish proverb that I believe aptly applies to this
thread:

He who tosses dogs in the air should not complain about pigeons.

Best,



David
-----
David Sosnowski
www.DavidSosnowski.com

[Tom_Davis]

Let me simplify this question up front - this is about point and click entry, not using a musical keyboard for entry and keying.

Okay, allow me to throw this one out:

For the many composers who, for whatever reason (injury, lack of technique, genuine interest in the fun of notation) are not interested in sequencing as an art and want the best software for point and click composing to produce excellent renderings; what notation and sampling software would you advise?

[Raymond62]

Let me simplify this question up front - this is about point and click entry, not using a musical keyboard for entry and keying.

Okay, allow me to throw this one out:

For the many composers who, for whatever reason (injury, lack of technique, genuine interest in the fun of notation) are not interested in sequencing as an art and want the best software for point and click composing to produce excellent renderings; what notation and sampling software would you advise?

I have no notion.

Raymond

[reberclark]

I have long experience with Finale and recommend it. My main efforts are using sequencers and notation programs in the service of live written music for living and breathing musicians - so I print ALOT of stuff and use only Finale for printing and publishing. I can only speak to Finale, I've never used Sibelius, et al.

I don't use Finale solely however (I sequence in SONAR) and find all aspects of music technology, including recording and sequencing, fascinating and enlightening.

Finale is so flexible and deep that one can adapt it to practically any musical use. So for my money - go with Finale.

Pencils are good too (no sneering or condescension intended :)).

[efiebke]

There is an ancient Polish proverb that I believe aptly applies to this
thread:

He who tosses dogs in the air should not complain about pigeons.

Best,

David
-----
David Sosnowski
www.DavidSosnowski.com


ROFLMAO!!!!

I've been following this thread (and other similar threads) since it began. I simply want to know when GPO4 will be available and figure mention of it will appear here at sometime. What's cool about this particular thread is the variety of topics found here. It's an "evolving" or "morphing" thread. It's one of my favorites!

Heck! Even the topic of "Dogs and Pigeons" might even be found here!

Wait. . . It is!!! :D

LOL!! :)

[Garritan]

Heck! Even the topic of "Dogs and Pigeons" might even be found here!
Wise observation by etLux who knows a thing or two about our fine feathered friends. Please note: No animals were harmed in the making of this thread ;)

[reberclark]

http://keithdevens.com/images/weblog/beagle4rm.jpeg

[Hippie]

WINDEX!!!!!!!!

I need to clean the Coke off my monitor.


I'm startin to worry about you children being left alone in here with out proper supervision. :p

[reberclark]

Message deleted by user for tackiness and mean spiritedness.;)

[DPDAN]

possibly, I was the pigeon pooping on the parade,
oh well,,

http://www.pointinggundogs.com/httpdocs/picture_files/AceBirdIntro.jpg

[Raymond62]

http://www.projex.com/files/raining%20cats%20and%20dogs.jpg

Raymond

[Raymond62]

A new gadget, sold together with...... or.....

http://www.luxury-insider.com/blog/content/binary/steinway_watch2.jpg

Raymond

[reberclark]

DOG PIGEON DOG!
http://eclectech.co.uk/b3ta/pigeondog-wallpaper.jpg

[robh]

Uh Oh. I smell another "Delete This" thread in the making!

Rob

[efiebke]

Uh Oh. I smell another "Delete This" thread in the making!

Rob

Oh gosh. . . . YES!!!
)(~ )(~ )(~:D :D :D )(~)(~)(~

Do you think it'll get to 1000+ posts????

[keithjfuller]

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/sundaysun/mar2009/5/6/gonzo-the-pigeon-and-shetland-sheepdog-jester-733448860.jpg

[etLux]

Uh Oh. I smell another "Delete This" thread in the making!

Rob

I hereby deny having said anything I said.

[reberclark]

I hereby deny having said anything I said.
http://rlv.zcache.com/admit_nothing_deny_everything_make_counter_accu_ts hirt-p235873736410467963u3vh_400.jpg

[reberclark]

Ern Lives!!

[trentpmcd]

Well David, anything I post in this thread is false.

[etLux]

Well David, anything I post in this thread is false.

I agree with you, Trent; though nothing I say in this thread is true.

[rbowser-]

ooOOOooooo nooooo---Another "Delete This Thread" thread? I never understood the first one--It was all some maniacal in-joke that started before I joined here and when I saw it I felt all left out and skeeeered that I'd joined up with a bunch of whackos---Not agaaaaaain--oooooh nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Skeered Randy

[etLux]

This would be the ideal thread in which to propound my
Kansas Theory of modern physics.

The Kansas Theory refutes current views by conclusively
proving there are only two dimensions, not three (or more).

One dimension begins in Kansas, the other ends there; hence
the name.

David
www.DavidSosnowski.com

[rbowser-]

This would be the ideal thread in which to propound my
Kansas Theory of modern physics.

The Kansas Theory refutes current views by conclusively
proving there are only two dimensions, not three (or more).

One dimension begins in Kansas, the other ends there; hence
the name.

David
------now I'm really Really skeeeered------
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews18/a%20Victor%20Fleming%20The%20Wizard%20of%20Oz%20DV D%20Review%20Judy%20Garland/2%20Victor%20Fleming%20The%20Wizard%20of%20Oz%20DV D%20Review%20Judy%20Garland%20PDVD_009.jpg
Randy

[serenitymusician]

------now I'm really Really skeeeered------
Randy

But Randy, David brings up a perfectly logical point. It begs the question:

If a chicken and a half lays an egg and a half in a day and a half, then how long does it take for a grasshopper to kick all the seeds out of a dill pickle?

Gary A.

Now where is my ARIA crystal ball? I left it here somewhere.

[etLux]

But Randy, David brings up a perfectly logical point. It begs the question:

If a chicken and a half lays an egg and a half in a day and a half, then how long does it take for a grasshopper to kick all the seeds out of a dill pickle?

Gary A.



Oh c'mon, Gary, at least you could give us a hard one...

Seven minutes, 32 seconds.

[AlanPerkins]

And here I was thinking the answer was pigeon pie.

[reberclark]

If a chicken and a half lays an egg and a half in a day and a half, then how long does it take for a grasshopper to kick all the seeds out of a dill pickle?

Everybody knows the answer is a train whistle. Duh.

[qccowboy]

if a centipede a pint,
how much would a precipice?

a sheer drop, of course.

[reberclark]

Q: How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb?

A: A cup of fur.

[trentpmcd]

http://media2.moma.org/collection_images/resized/266/w500h420/CRI_2266.jpg

(link if no image http://media2.moma.org/collection_images/resized/266/w500h420/CRI_2266.jpg) (Meret Oppenheim from the MoMA collection)

[reberclark]

Amazingly cool! )(~:wow::)

[Tom_Davis]

Q. If you're going down the road in your canoe and one of the wheels comes off, how many pancakes will it take to roof a dog house?

A. Seventeen, because you can't sew buttons on ice cream.

[serenitymusician]

Q. If you're going down the road in your canoe and one of the wheels comes off, how many pancakes will it take to roof a dog house?

A. Seventeen, because you can't sew buttons on ice cream.

Ah, but Tom, if you're going down the road on a Tuesday while taking a shower and mowing the lawn, there is the slight possibility that the ice cream might have enough staying power to not only hold the buttons, but actually reproduce them. Of course, that all depends on when the sign wave of ARIA is subtracted by the inforce caused by putting too much mustard into a jar of abstract. Afterall, have you ever seen a toilet bowl or a coffee pot? Let me pull out my Garritan crystal ball and see what it has to say.:confused:

[reberclark]

“But that is the bitterness of arts; you see a good effect, and some nonsense about sense continually intervenes.” – Robert Louis Stevenson, Epilogue of the Cigar Divan

[Fabio]

oh My Gosh! I see....

I will never make my next Christmas song arrangement with Aria GPO.

After Gary had read that, he will start thinking that as long it takes as funny is the forum...and won't finish it for the next 20 or 25 years...

[NeoDavinci]

We may as well laugh as cry.

[libitina]

Hi All,

I've just joined today and am thinking of purchasing GPO for my IMac, and have just spotted this thread. So a Question if I may.

I've seen GPO listed and read about GOS but cant see that anywhere the same as GPO ARIA cant see that either. What is GPO ARIA is it a new version of GPO and if I were to purchase GPO now would i automatically get a free upgrade to GPO ARIA what ever that is, if it is a new version to GPO, and will it be usable with Sibelius 6

Thanks

Lib


the manual is being proofed and edited,
so that tells us that the software is just
about ready for replication....

Dan

[rbowser-]

Omigosh! An On Topic post!!



I've seen GPO listed and read about GOS but cant see that anywhere the same as GPO ARIA cant see that either. What is GPO ARIA is it a new version of GPO and if I were to purchase GPO now would i automatically get a free upgrade to GPO ARIA what ever that is, if it is a new version to GPO, and will it be usable with Sibelius 6

Hello, Libitina

GOS stands for Garritan Orchestral Strings, and is an out moded library which hasn't been sold for a long time. Some people still have and use it. Updating it to GOS2 is one of the Garritan projects to be developed in the future.

The very soon-to-be-release GPO4 is the upgrade of GPO which has been re-programmed to work inside the Aria player which replaces Native Instruments' Kontackt 2 Player which currently is the engine for playing all of the Garritan Libraries.

A number of big improvements over KP2 have been implemented and there are several new instruments, such as selections from the SAM Brass Library, and a light Choir collection.

The biggest advance for the Garritan company is that the Aria player is under its direct control, so compatibility between the Library sounds and the player can be controlled and maintained. Having to work with an outside company, Native Instruments, has caused numerous problems, unexpected delays and derailments of plans.

I am rather sure I read on a thread that people who buy GPO now will have a grace period during which they can upgrade to the new version. Those of us who have had GPO longer will be able to upgrade for $49.

Randy

[raweber]

Hey, Randy,

One of the early mentions of GPO4 was that the solo strings would have more expressive control - nothing approaching the Strad or Goff, but a step up from GPO3.

Can you confirm this?

[libitina]

Omigosh! An On Topic post!!

Hello, Libitina

GOS stands for Garritan Orchestral Strings, and is an out moded library which hasn't been sold for a long time. Some people still have and use it. Updating it to GOS2 is one of the Garritan projects to be developed in the future.

The very soon-to-be-release GPO4 is the upgrade of GPO which has been re-programmed to work inside the Aria player which replaces Native Instruments' Kontackt 2 Player which currently is the engine for playing all of the Garritan Libraries.

A number of big improvements over KP2 have been implemented and there are several new instruments, such as selections from the SAM Brass Library, and a light Choir collection.

The biggest advance for the Garritan company is that the Aria player is under its direct control, so compatibility between the Library sounds and the player can be controlled and maintained. Having to work with an outside company, Native Instruments, has caused numerous problems, unexpected delays and derailments of plans.

I am rather sure I read on a thread that people who buy GPO now will have a grace period during which they can upgrade to the new version. Those of us who have had GPO longer will be able to upgrade for $49.

Randy

I like that Omigosh LOL, Hehehehehe.

Mide a few more questions

1. will GPO run on an IMac Intel.
2. will GPO or GPO ARIA run inside Sibelius 6, tutorials only cover version 3 so no help there.
3. On reading the tutorials for GPO in sibelius extra text has to be placed after expressions for changes in volume, so with regard to something like Cres. will GPO automaticall increase volume or will i need to make multiple inserts up/down to the volume required, so for example if pieces is play in "P and need to go to PPP" will it do it gradually or would I put to more volume setting in the middle of the two expressions.
4. Is the GOS product still available as i can see it anywhere on the site and how does it compare to GPO

I'm not sure if your a moderator, if you are can you delete my previous new thread as this is a copy if you can answer the parts that hadn't been answered please.

thanks for you info, great help :)

[rbowser-]

One of the early mentions of GPO4 was that the solo strings would have more expressive control - nothing approaching the Strad or Goff, but a step up from GPO3.
Hi, Rob

Now semi-obscured in this Huge thread are several posts from Gary Garritan. Here are quotes from him on that topic:

"...controllable vibrato on...solo strings...will not be offered in the initial release of GPO4. We ran across some unacceptable problems and we need to redo...Rather than hold up GPO4 any further we decided that it may be best to omit them from the initial release and offer them in an update...."

"...We discussed at length whether to add the vibrato-controlled solo strings with the beta team. While there was great promise, they simply were not good enough and we decided to wait rather than release..."

Randy

[rbowser-]

Hi, libitina

We'll leave your other thread where your questions are the main topic. People won't see your post hidden on this thread, so it's good to leave that other post on its own.

Randy

[NDEE]

Ah, but Tom, if you're going down the road on a Tuesday while taking a shower and mowing the lawn, there is the slight possibility that the ice cream might have enough staying power to not only hold the buttons, but actually reproduce them. Of course, that all depends on when the sign wave of ARIA is subtracted by the inforce caused by putting too much mustard into a jar of abstract. Afterall, have you ever seen a toilet bowl or a coffee pot? Let me pull out my Garritan crystal ball and see what it has to say.:confused:

Man O man, this gives us a glimpse of the POWER of GPO 4 and it's ARIA player...

First, it's not out yet and it has already redefined the word EMINENT.

Secondly, It has shown us how efficient the ARIA engine can be at processing and modifying data remotely, (like our sanity...)

However, despite all this, one question still remains:

Will it include the keyswitching function on the pigeons and dogs samples???


...and still paaaaatiently waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ZEN-fully...

NDEE

[Jon Bryson]

Man O man, this gives us a glimpse of the POWER of GPO 4 and it's ARIA player...

First, it's not out yet and it has already redefined the word EMINENT.

Secondly, It has shown us how efficient the ARIA engine can be at processing and modifying data remotely, (like our sanity...)

However, despite all this, one question still remains:

Will it include the keyswitching function on the pigeons and dogs samples???


...and still paaaaatiently waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ZEN-fully...

NDEE

Dogs switch keys pretty easily. I've thrown all kinds of changes at my black lab and he gets them without a hiccup. Pigeons on the other hand... once switched one from Bb Major to G minor, he got pretty cranky. Man, it was even the relative minor, but pigeons apparently hate key switching. ;)

Jon

[reberclark]

Dogs switch keys pretty easily. I've thrown all kinds of changes at my black lab and he gets them without a hiccup. Pigeons on the other hand... once switched one from Bb Major to G minor, he got pretty cranky. Man, it was even the relative minor, but pigeons apparently hate key switching. ;)

Jon
Jon, Wow! Are you ever right! Pigeons suck at keyswitching. We have two doves, however, that live in our backyard and do okay - except when we're using the Garritan harp KS samples. Must be the whole genus "pigeon" or something because they are worse than any other animal I have ever seen.

One remedy that we tried involved duct tape and a vat of hydrogen peroxide - this was recommended on "another" forum - with disastrous results. I highly recommend the dog for keyswitching, leaving the pigeons free for other tasks!

[Jon Bryson]

One remedy that we tried involved duct tape and a vat of hydrogen peroxide - this was recommended on "another" forum - with disastrous results. I highly recommend the dog for keyswitching, leaving the pigeons free for other tasks!

Funny, I was reading that wondering what on earth you could have tried. Then my black lab who was reading this over my shoulder starting giggling uncontrollably. Guess he's seen it too, but he's not telling!

[pjGtr]

I think the above examples clearly demonstrate the validity of my theory.

This concludes my presentation on "Software-Delay-Induced Psychosis"

Thank you ladies and gentlemen.

[Jon Bryson]

I think the above examples clearly demonstrate the validity of my theory.

This concludes my presentation on "Software-Delay-Induced Psychosis"

Thank you ladies and gentlemen.

Yes, I also like the ones with big chunks of potatoes. ;)

Jon

PS Some say you dream in black in white, some in color. I've been dreaming in Aria - not a good sign.

[efiebke]

Ahhhhh. . . . reading the last several pages of this particular thread reminds me of reading the Eugene Ionesco play, "The Bald Soprano". So, in contributing to this discussion, I quote from The Bald Soprano: "A-E-I-O-U. A-E-I-O-U. . . "

Thank you. . .

Ted

(. . . and sometimes Y. . . . . }

[reberclark]

(. . . and sometimes Y. . . . . }

Who, What, When, Where and sometimes...Why?

SDIP (Software Delay Induced Psychosis) is rampant here. We've tried electro-shock, cold showers, rain delays, buttercream, envelope stuffing, fish oil, eraser chewing, marking time, ladling soup, folding paper, unfolding paper, lounging, ruminating and sponging - all to no avail.

"Hey, did you hear there's a million bucks hidden in the house next door?"
"But, there is no house next door!"
"Let's go build one!"
- Marx (Bros)

[NDEE]

OK, here's the deal: Concerto for Pigeons and Dogs anyone???

C'mon, be creative!

It'll keep us busy until IMMINENCE shows up.

Who knows, it might even bring our collective sanity back.

Or maybe not...

NDEE