WILL THESE WORK TOGETHER??? (recording eq.)

[June-Bug-Dan]

Hi,

Ive been trying to get hold of decent yet affordable recording hardware so that i can add some live tracks to my compositions.
But heres the thing..... i have NO experience in recording (except using my PC's Mic input with a bad PC microphone)

(((I should make it clear that i will mainly be recording Brass instruments)))

So i've been looking and ive found some affordable hardware.

http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product~name~Yamaha-MW10C~ID~6421.asp

&

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/AKG-C-2000-BH100-Microphone-with-Shockmount?sku=271241#new



Heres a few questions:

1. Can these two items be used together?

2. Is there any additional hardware (cables ect.) that i need for these to work together?

3. Is the microphone suitable for brass instruments?

4. Could you explain 'Phantom power'? (i've never understood this)

If anyone can help or redirect me to somewhere that may be able to help then i will be very greatful.


Thanks,

Dan.;)

[RichR]

I am no studio engineer, but I have done some work in studios and have my own mini studio in my home.

You have picked a very nice condenser microphone which requires phantom power. However, the mixing board you have selected does not. You can get a phantom power supply to connect in-line between the microphone and the mixer but I have never done that.

Basically, here is my understanding of phantom power (and you can look it up in Wikipedia - they will probably explain in much more detail). Condenser mics require a power supply at usually around +48V to exite the element that picks up the sound waves. As the element vibrates it uses the electrical current to convert soundwaves to electrical energy. Condenser mics are very senstive and have a cover the complete range of pitches from 20 Hz to over 20 KHz. (sounds below to above the human hearing range - or at least below and above my hearing range :))

Dynamic mics do not need extra power added to make them work (like the old standard Shures SM57 and SM58). There are better ones than those today so I will leave that discussion to others.

The mixing board you have picked would work better with a dynamic mic than a condenser mic since the board has NO PreAmps of Phantom Power to supply to condenser mics.

Well, that was probably as clear as mud, but I at least tried to answer your question. I hope I didn't confuse you or mis-state any of the above material.

Good luck on your work in this area

[tradivoro]

I'll answer these by the numbers

1. Yes, if the mixer has phantom power, but I didn't read anything about phantom power. If no phantom power, I would suggest a dedicated sound card, and a dedicated mixer with phantom power...

2. You're going to need a cable to connect the microphone to the mixer and other cables for anything else

3. That's a toughie... Mics are funny creatures, some work better for some sources than others... However, generally speaking, make sure that where ever you buy this, they allow returns if you don't like the sound of the mic... There are some mics out there that generally sound good on a lot of stuff... From what I recall, I think this AKG model has a scoop at about 500 which makes it good for some vocals... I don't recall 100% if this was the model... I would also recommend the Shure KM27 which is also presently on sale... Also, distance from the mic during recording and the room you're recording in have a lot of influence on the quality sound of the recording... There are multiple parameters which affect the final sound of the recording, it's just not the mic...


http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Shure-KSM27-Studio-Microphone?sku=270278

4. Phantom power is electric power required to power the condenser microphone. In the old days, some condenser mics used batteries.. somebody got the bright idea that it would be better to just have a power source coming from board and thus boards with phantom power built in were born... You need phantom power only if you're using a condenser microphone... Most pro mics are condenser mics... The ones that you're looking at are condenser mics...

[Hannes_F]

Stop the press, the mixer has phantom power! I know this because I have it (but actually only used it two times).



Heres a few questions:

1. Can these two items be used together?

Technically yes. However I am not impressed by the fact that the mixer only records in 16 bit.

Also be aware that the AD/DA converter is trimmed to 0 dB analog for 0 dBFS (digital), and no chance to change that. To get a decent signal-to-noise ratio it would have been +3 or +6 dB analog to 0 dBFS. So overall I cannot really reccomend it too much.



2. Is there any additional hardware (cables ect.) that i need for these to work together?One XLR microphone cable and one stand



3. Is the microphone suitable for brass instruments?Not sure because this is a high sensitivity microphone. You should head over to the website of AKG and look up which mics they reccommend for brass.

BTW you should be aware that the mixer only records the stereo mix, not individual channels.

[RichR]

Hannes said:


Stop the press, the mixer has phantom power! I know this because I have it (but actually only used it two times).


Okay, I did check another web site and got the specs on the Yamaha mixing board and it DOES have +48V phantom power. Thanks for knowing that Hannes. :)

Hannes you are also right. the mic is probably is too sensitive for close in brass work. And it is also disappointing on the converters being trimmed to 0 dB analog for 0 dBFS digital. It was the hot signal of +3 or +6 dB analog that gave analog recordings the warmth we associate with analog.

[June-Bug-Dan]

Thank-you all!

The information you have given me is clear and very helpful.

I will consider the mic however i want the best 'board/recording deck' i can get for a low price. I do like the sound of the hardware i linked to this thread but the '16 bit' stated on the product site has made me consider my choice of hardware.

As i said in the original post, i know nothing about recording and the hardware needed to record quality tracks. And i certainly dont expect imensly high quality audio but i hope that i can find the hardware that has a 'quality sound' for 'home studio' work.

If anyone further knows of a similar recording mixer/ect. at a resonable price then any comments are helpful.


Thanks again for the info!

Dan.:p

[DPDAN]

A microphone that will perform even better than the C2000B, is an AKG Perception 220.
I have four of these 220 mics. I compared it side by side to a Neumann U87Ai.
The difference in fidelity, noise, warmth, depth, awesomeness, and all those other goofy
geek slang terms is virtually undectectable. An AKG Perception 220 will sound FANTASTIC
with brass instruments.

The Neumann is $3,000.00 USD, and the AKG 220 is $120.00.

Come on Dan, you're saying a 220 AKG sounds as good as a U87?

YEP, that's what I am saying!

Dan

http://mksmedia.net/media/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/79b73e2b9220155763a828a9b75b98c1.jpg

[June-Bug-Dan]

A microphone that will perform even better than the C2000B, is an AKG Perception 220. I have four of these 220 mics, and I also compared it side by side to a Neumann U87Ai. The difference in fidelity, noise, warmth, depth, awesomeness, and all those other goofy geek slang terms is virtually undectectable. An AKG Perception 220 will sound FANTASTIC with brass instruments.

The Neumann is $3,000.00 USD, and the AKG 220 is $120.00.

Come on Dan, you're saying a 220 AKG sounds just like a U87?

YES, that's what I am saying!

Dan


Hahhahaha...

This did make me laugh:p

I'll check out that mic...
It looks nice:p But thats just the picture! haha..

I dont supose you have any brass recordings using this mic do you?:p


Any thoughts about the actual recording side of things?

Dan.:)

[DPDAN]

Hi Dan,
Unfortunately I do not have any "recordings" of brass using the 220,
but I used a couple of them on a live concert in a local theater for sax and trumpet and it was just great!

That Yamaha mixer will work just fine with these mics.

Even though Hannes mentioned 16 bit, and some noise floor numbers,
the mixer will still provide great quality and years of trouble free use.
Yamaha makes some really great stuff.

You don't need a $4,000.00 tube mic preamp to get great sound.

As Hannes mentioned, this Yamaha mixer only puts out stereo sound via the USB, so the maximum amount of microphones that you could record into your computer (into discrete tracks) at one time would be two. One panned hard left, the other panned hard right.

Dan

[June-Bug-Dan]

Hi Dan,
Unfortunately I do not have any "recordings" of brass using the 220,
but I used a couple of them on a live concert in a local theater for sax and trumpet and it was just great!

That yamaha mixer will work just fine with these mics.

Even though Hannes mentioned 16 bit, and some noise floor numbers,
the mixer will still provide great quality and years of trouble free use.
yamaha makes some really great stuff.

You don't need a $4,000.00 tube mic preamp to get great sound.
Dan


Thats a shame but none the less thanks for your help!:p
I think i may have to make a few orders soon:)

Can i manage with just the one for now? Panned center to the instrument/'s?

For the mic.. Would you suggest any particular website to purchase the product? I was looking at a website but unfortunatly it only shipped to the United States (im in the United Kingdom) any ideas?

Dan. :)

[DPDAN]

You can indeed use just one mic with the pan knob set to center
and record that into a stereo audio track, via the USB.

Good question about where to purchase it, since you are in the UK,
I don't know what to suggest, but there should be many places.

Dan

[June-Bug-Dan]

You can indeed use just one mic with the pan knob set to center
and record that into a stereo audio track, via the USB.

Good question about where to purchase it, since you are in the UK,
I don't know what to suggest, but there should be many places.

Dan

Thats good news!

Thank you all again for the help! it has been valuable information that has certainly helped me in my new explorations into home recording:)

I think ive found one for £109.00 ! i just need to buy a tripod/stand and a cable and i should be fine!

Thanks again and take care..


Dan.:hp:

[DPDAN]

awesome Dan,
I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how good it sounds.
Dan

Glad to help.

[tradivoro]

awesome Dan,
I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how good it sounds.
Dan

Glad to help.

Hi Dan, thanks for the head's up on the akg 220's...

[LFO]

Since instruments like Trumpets are `mono' instruments you will be just fine. I'll second the 220 recommendation from Dan, they are a huge bang for the buck. I would just Google to see where you can pick them up as a UK customer.

-Kevin

[June-Bug-Dan]

Thanks for the info!

I think i've found an international based website to order one from.

Dan.:)

[Jerry W.]

Hey, Dan, how do the AKG 220's fare against the SuperLux CM-H8A? They are very similar in pricing. You've had both and used them in real recordings.

Thanks

Jerry

[DPDAN]

Hi Jerry, the AKG's are nice and silent, where your Superlux mics are not nearly as quiet, but your Superlux mics still sound great and the price... hey :)
I'm sorry I missed you on skype the other night...

The AKG 220 also comes with a very nice shock mount,
one that has a very decent build quality, much like the optional shock mount for the Neumann U87 which is $350.00,..... :eek: that's right....
just their shock mount is 350 bucks, gosh, there will always be people that demand a U87, but it is after all great quality, and people know exactly what to expect when they use it.

Wednesday evening, I will be using four AKG 220 microphones to record the choir for my selection on the 2009 Garritan Christmas CD called "O Come All Ye Faithful". It was originally arranged by Eugene Ormandy, and since I do virtually everything by ear, I modified it using GPO4 with the new Sam Brass instruments. I suppose we will have to wait till near Thanksgiving to hear the final mix, but I am excited to finally record the choir tracks, then go back home and mix them along with the Garritan "orchestra track".

Dan