Reverb for Orchestral

[Francis Belardino]

Has anyone nailed a custom tweak within NFX Reverb/Multi-Effects for orchestral. I still
have not found the right setting.

I do send midi to audio and use plug ins but ...

Thanks



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Francis Belardino
Sound Designer
Audio Visions, LTD.
Wilmington, DE.
www.audiovisionsonline.com

[rediesisminore]

I do not have my own Gigastudio system yet, but I\'ve built one for a friend (who is an orchestra conductor, BTW) and tried it out a little bit. We both think that NFX reverb is not acceptable in quality with orchestral sounds and we\'re looking for a better solution.
I\'ve posted a topic yesterday about this (Lexicon vs TC reverb).
Many people here use orchestral samples and in my opinion good reverb unit and setup are essential to realistic results.
It\'s an interesting subject, I hope other will bring their opinions.

rediesisminore

[Simon Ravn]

I prefer my Lexicon MPX1 for orchestral reverb. It is more \'muddy\' than TC - TC can be too clean for this kind of stuff. I have a TC M-One which I occasionally use for brass, but I find it more useful for loooooooong, clean verbs a la Mike Oldfield. Software verbs - the best I heard so far is the Waves RVerb. It is actually very good! Sometimes I add that on top of a mix in the end to give it even more \'hall feel\'.

[rediesisminore]

Simon, I agree with you that TC are too clean, but, on the other hand Lexicon sounds too \'boxy\' (if you see what I mean) to my hears. I talk about the MPX1 which I tried last year in a studio before buying it and... I ended up in not buying it because it lacked the deepness and spaceness of the M3000 I tried the day before. Actually the M-One is far away in quality from the M3000 and is not suitable to orchestral sounds.
It would be interesting to listen to a high end Lexicon!
My only fear is that I\'m too much used to the acoustic of concert halls to find an acceptable reverb unit!
I\'ve also asked for a demo of the Sony sample reverb, very expensive but maybe...another world! who knows ?!

[Avar]

Try Altiverb, a plug-in for Mac only. You have to hear these classical hall emulations to believe it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rediesisminore:
Simon, I agree with you that TC are too clean, but, on the other hand Lexicon sounds too \'boxy\' (if you see what I mean) to my hears. I talk about the MPX1 which I tried last year in a studio before buying it and... I ended up in not buying it because it lacked the deepness and spaceness of the M3000 I tried the day before. Actually the M-One is far away in quality from the M3000 and is not suitable to orchestral sounds.
It would be interesting to listen to a high end Lexicon!
My only fear is that I\'m too much used to the acoustic of concert halls to find an acceptable reverb unit!
I\'ve also asked for a demo of the Sony sample reverb, very expensive but maybe...another world! who knows ?!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[KingIdiot]

i\'m finding a combination of reverbs is workign well. I like Acoustic Modeler alot but, it tens to soudn too thin at times. Its great for space...but then I have to EQ again. I also like my Reverb from the VS1680...which I\'m planning on getting rid of soon...sooo I may look at the Roland Reverb unit they have..forget what its called. using them in conjunction can soudn good. I still ahven\'t figured the best way yet tho. I used to get great sounds from jsut the VS reverbs..btu i want to use a little bit of acoustic modeler for the \"air\" you can get

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Damon]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Avar:
Try Altiverb, a plug-in for Mac only. You have to hear these classical hall emulations to believe it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I sure do wish Altiverb would come out with a PC version http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/frown.gifbecause it does sound very good for orchestral stuff.

[Bardstown Audio]

The Quantec \"Yard Stick\" is worth considering for orchestral reverb. I have not personally used this reverb device, but many who are into classical music room simulation are very impressed with the Quantec. www.quantec.com (\"http://www.quantec.com\")

Kip
Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

[dafrica]

What are some of other hardware reverb units that the rest of you use for Movie Scoring/Orchestral music?

[LHong]

One of those is Lexicon.

[Simon Ravn]

Quantec have the worlds ugliest homepage, I certainly hope their \"room simulation\" skills are better than their webdesign ones.

[Simon Ravn]

... but after listening to their demos I am not so sure?!?! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Are anyone actually using this for professional use?

[dafrica]

Anyone heard of or used the Lexicon MPX500
OR.... the Roland . Roland SRV-3030? and how about software version of Sonic Timeworks Reverb X. Anyone have reviews or personal info on these above products with Orchestral samples?

Dafrica




[This message has been edited by dafrica (edited 10-21-2001).]

[Robert Kral]

Lexicon PCM90 is great. I use the Concert Hall, and the Gothic Hall. The Gothic Hall casts a very professional quality sound over the mix, very smooth and rich. From what I heard of the older Lexicon 300L, though, the 300L has a very beautiful, pro quality sound. It\'s simlar to the Gothic Hall on PCM 90. But VERY expensive!

[JG]

The quantec and m3000 are cards, I take it? (Not independent boxes like the Lexicon.) I can\'t tell from their sites. Speaking of cards and reverb, has anyone heard of universal audio\'s effects card w/ reverb? Any good?

The best plugin may be Waves Rverb, as suggested above. Better than TC Works or Timeworks, in my view. But hard on the memory, and it can\'t be used realtime. I assume that the card verbs are ALWAYS better than than soft plugins. Any comment on this?

Also, are all effects cards easily recordable with GS? SbLive, for example, allows reverb to be recorded exactly as heard. Unfortunately, it\'s not the greatest reverb, although I think it may be as good as the Rverb plugin.

John Grant

[This message has been edited by JG (edited 10-22-2001).]

[Bardstown Audio]

Quote:
The quantec and m3000 are cards, I take it?
End of quote:

The Quantec is not a card. It is an outboard reverb unit.

Kip
Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")



[This message has been edited by Bardstown Audio (edited 10-22-2001).]

[JG]

Yes, Quantec\'s a box. Technopeasant that I am, I figured that out. For others like me, peasants, I mean, I figured out that there seems to be 3 main types of artificial verb:

1. Plugins (software);
2. Cards (which go in your computer);
3. \"Boxes,\" which are the things we used to use 10 years ago, and which still give the best reverb.

With any box you want to make sure you can record the result, without loss of quality, to hard drive and in the end to CD. And boxes are pretty expensive. Good ones I mean. I\'m not sure I want to spend that kind of money.

Plugin reverbs just don\'t cut it, in my experience.

That leaves cards (for me, anyway). Are there ANY cards out there that are competative with the boxes?

P.S. Reverb is definitely the weakest link in my setup. I\'m stuck with SbLive, timeworks and Rverb, and I\'m not happy. Sblive still seems the best of the lot, but it\'s not really satisfactory.

Since I\'m basically into solo piano, I\'m looking for something that will give me the kind of verb that Jarrett used in his recording of the Handel Suites on ECM. Totally real, beautiful verb. Maybe it\'s a real hall. The liner notes don\'t say. I suspect it was done in the studio, though, after the initial recording. Probably a top-of-the-line Lex.

John Grant

[dafrica]

Any comments on Mpx 500?
Any comments on Roland SV 3030?

[Joris de Man]

At a classical recording studio I\'ve used the Quantec a few times, and think it\'s a great reverb; better than the 480L IMHO. To me, the Lex tends to collapse the stereo image somewhat because of it\'s early reflections when you mix it in fairly wet. The Yardstick is more friendly to your mix when you pour on a lot of it. Nothing comes close to the new Sony Convolution reverb though http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif
Anyway, Lexicon\'s are great for a rich lush sound, if that\'s what you want. I also own an MPX-1 and it does nice reverb, and seems to work great with orchestral samples. The Waves Renaissance can be used realtime, and I think it is one of the best software verbs around, IMHO. Very suitable for classical stuff, but tough on your processor! TC sounds slightly clinical and cold to me, but then again I haven\'t used their higher end stuff like the M5000.
If you\'re curious, check out Monsterrack at www.Harmonycentral.com, (\"http://www.Harmonycentral.com,\") there you can access a Lexicon PCM91 and also a TC verb, I believe.
As far as Roland goes, you might want to pick up a secondhand SRV-330; a vastly underrated but truly excellent reverb. No digital out, unfortunately, but a rich and extremely smooth reverb, some nice non-linear and ambience programs and RSS thrown in to boot. It also has a very good midispec.

just my 2 cents,

Joe

[dafrica]

Thanks Joe

Anyone else\'s 2 cents on Reverb

What is the difference between the Lexicon PCM80 and the older PCM 41/42 series.

Also has anyone used the older LExicon lxp1

Dafrica

[Freya]

Folks,

I\'ve posted this pointer before but it seems relevant to the current discussion. FIReverb Suite at www.catt.se (\"http://www.catt.se\") is a fantastic reverb tool. You design the hall (rectangular unfortunately for the intro level product), set the surface reflectivity (on a per suface basis), locate the sound sources, chose the mic\'s and their locations and then let the program \"do its thing\". Not a plugin but a real simulator - if your machine is fast its not much different than real time. It\'s all a bit complex to set and get going the first time but after you have a few halls built and some good mic setups, it\'s relatively painless. I believe you can also import impulse responses from other sources but haven\'t tried this for a while so I forget the details. @$295 I found the price a bit steep but I\'ll never use a reverb \"box\" again for final product.

[JG]

FIReverb? Visited their site. Looks very interesting. I wonder how Deutsche Grammophon employed the system? I\'m downloading the demo at this moment. I will report, assuming I can get the demo to work!

J.Grant

[Bardstown Audio]

Jim Roseberry at Studio Cat www.studiocat.com (\"http://www.studiocat.com\") has some nice acoustic impulses available at a very reasonable price, which were produced from some high-end outboard reverb boxes, such as a Lexicon 480L and TC M5000.

Kip
Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

[JG]

Yup, Freya, this looks VERY promising. Perhaps you could help us, a bit, though... Say I\'m just dialing in the con hall preset, and I have a dry wav. file ready to go. How do I reproduce the verb?

Thanks,

J.G.

[Freya]

JG -

Unfortunately I\'m on the road for the week or so and can\'t provide much detailed guidance. Spend some time working through the provided tutorial. I originally tried to dive right in and reverb a file without reading the manual and the tutorial. This software is too complex just to dive into like that. Once I read everything it still took a while to get things working but after I understood the conventions it got very easy.