Advice wanted on recording musicians to be added to sampled production...

[Maarten Spruijt]

Who would like to give me some personal and practical advice on the following:

A small ensemble needs to be recorded (6-8 players), that will be part of a sampled orchestration/production (movie score I\'m doing). I\'d say it\'s going to be about 50% real players and 50% samples. The recording and midi studio are in different places.

What way would you record the ensemble, regarding keeping the timing (later on) with the sampled part:

1. Use clicktracks in the ears of the musicians (and conductor)

2. Use clicktrack (or light) in the ear (eye) of the conductor only

3. Let the musicians play with the sampled part on headphones

4. \"Loose\" recording, and adjusting the sampled part TO the live recording afterwards


Thanks for the insight,

Maarten

[This message has been edited by Maarten Spruijt (edited 10-16-2001).]

[TJ]

\"3. Let the musicians play with the sampled part on headphones\"

Not this!!. The others I\'ve used at various times depending on the sort of music. If it has a rigid rhythm then click tracks for performer and conductor are good. If its rubato then a visual aid is usually better

[Bruce A. Richardson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TJ:
\"3. Let the musicians play with the sampled part on headphones\"

Not this!!. The others I\'ve used at various times depending on the sort of music. If it has a rigid rhythm then click tracks for performer and conductor are good. If its rubato then a visual aid is usually better

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would recommend all of the above, which is what any typical session would entail. Of course the musicians should hear the track in the headphones!! They need to react to it and be conscious of the overall piece, not just their parts.

Play the sampled parts as you have them, put players and conductor in headphones, put enough click in the headphones so it can be heard, and track to as many discrete channels with as much isolation as you can get in your facility. Use gobos to separate players and sections.

This gets you an \"integrated\" performance in the context of your sampled track, keeps the tempo honest all the way around, and the good isolation gives you the best possible chance at making radical changes in timing should you need to do it. If gobos or iso booths are not available, then use the \"voids\" in the microphone patterns to place loud instruments out of prime pickup range.

Hope that helps.

Bruce

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Another thing you might want to consider is recording one instrument/section at a time. Since you\'re already using samples and already have click/rhythm available, this may afford better isolation, and allow you maximum impact from your best mics.

These days I hardly ever record an \"ensemble\" at once, since most of the overdubbing I do is the solo work that can\'t be knocked off well. As such, there\'s not that much to be gained by having the entire ensemble sitting in one place at one time.

[TJ]

\"I would recommend all of the above, which is what any typical session would entail. Of course the musicians should hear the track in the headphones!!

Adding sampled parts after definitely leads to better results in my experience. Too much at once in players headphones can lead to poor performance, and I speak from experience as session musician and conductor. Its pretty common now to record sections seperately without any hearing the others.

[ondrej]

Hello!
You might want to read John Rowcroft\'s article \"Shoestring Orchestra\" which appeared in the Sound On Sound magazine April 2000 and which deals precisely with this subject.
You might find the article on the SOS webpage www.sospubs.co.uk (\"http://www.sospubs.co.uk\") .
Greetings.
Ondrej

[This message has been edited by ondrej (edited 10-17-2001).]