Help with WXP 64 bit

[Marko]

I posted this on the Vienna site, but the suggestions I received have not yet worked.

I'm having great difficulty running Vienna Ensemble on a WXP 64 bit platform. The sound is distorted when I trigger a note and the cpu goes all the way to 60 or 70 %. The CPU even surges high when I trigger the sound right from the virtual keyboard inside VE.

I'm using VE in standalone mode. VE runs well on my 32 bit WXP which I have on a separate partition. My sequencer is on a separate computer.

I have the latest 7.3 drivers for my Echo card set up in my 64 bit application and the settings are identical to the 32 bit application of VE. As far as I can tell I have VE set up the same with the soundcard in the 64 and 32 bit platforms. Same drivers, same latency, same WDM settings for my Echo card.

In 64 bit, Vinenna Instruments initially works, but the task manager indicates cpu activity around 20% and even higher when a I play one instrument. VE plays two instruments decently but as soon as I play a third track it is highly distorted. In VE the CPU indicates 60 to 70% and it never falls below 30% even when it is just standing idle.

Audio cds play fine through the media player with no distortion. I disabled all the WXP sounds.

.
I have a Core 2, 6420. 2.13 GHz,. 6 gigabytes of ram, dual boot WXp/WXp 64, Service Pack 2) Echo Mia card, 40 gigabyte SATA drive for programs, two 500 for audio files (Vienna Winds, Chamber Strings, Percussion, Harps, Special Edition)

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Marko

[Haydn]

Which version of VE are you using? Is this the x64 version?

I've been running 2.0 version for quite awhile in WXP x64 without these problems. Sonar 8.3.1 is my host. CPU usage is usually no more than a few percent CPU when idle with 2 instances of VE loaded with almost 16 instruments in each.

I've noticed that in my 64 bit partition that latency has to be set a bit higher with my soundcard compared to my 32 bit partition. So you may want to try raising it. Also, I haven't had much luck running with multiprocessor support enabled in Sonar but that is usually caused by Kontakt 2.

Jim

[Marko]

Jim,

Do you have an Echo Mia card in your rig? If not, what do you have?

I tried switching the MIA card with a Hammerfall (VSL tech support suggested this) but I cannot finish installing it. My computer won't run a flash program for the drivers.Something about a password and administrator's permission. I've never run into this before. I set up Windows so that no password is required and I have never had a problem like this before.

Any ideas?

Marko

[Haydn]

I'm using an EMU 1212M card.

Do you have the exact wording for the error message your getting? Are you running as administrator?

Jim

[Marko]

Jim,

I finally installed the card with the updated 64 bit drivers. The card is a Hammerfall 9652, the cpu level is still ridiculously high. When VE sits idle the cpu is registering about 10 to 15 %.

I've experimented with various buffer settings too. The performance bar on the task manager goes up to 30 to 50% when I play one note. When I run a few tracks it goes to 90 to 100%.

Swapping the soundcard did not do the trick.

What else could it be? The only thing I have on this computer is VI. and VE which I run in standalone. My sequencer is on another computer.


Marko

[Chalfant]

Could be a number of things but what's this 40 gig drive you speak of?
Is that what you have your O/S on AND Cubase?
Sounds like it as you say the other two drives are 500GB for audio.

Have you done a RAM check?
What motherboard do you use and exactly what RAM is it and what incriments are the DIMMS?

[Haydn]

How are the 2 computers communicating? What programs are you using?

Jim

[Marko]

Chalfant,

I think my main drive is a Western Digital (80 gig). I have it partitioned with WXP on C: and XP64 on D (dual boot). I don't have Cubase. I use V Ensemble in standalone. My sequencer (Home Studio) is on a separate computer running MOL.

The motherboard is an Intel D965 (Core 2, 6420, 2.13 GHz). The ram modules are the same speed. I have it set up in dual memory mode. I haven't run any test, but I've never had any problem with the RAM in WXP 32 (with a 3 gig switch)

At this point, I think I can rule out the soundcard. In fact I went back to the Echo. The RME didn't work any better.

I don't think it's a MIDI thing because the cpu spikes when I trigger sounds from the virtual keyboard inside VE. Even sitting idle, VE seems to run at 7 to 10%.

Jim,

I use MOL for my MIDI connections.

Marko

[Haydn]

What kind of idle CPU usage do you get with MOL disabled?

Jim

[Marko]

From what I can tell, there is no difference with MOL disabled.

I went on a disabling spree yesterday afternoon to see if there are any conflicts. I disabled all audio on the motherboard, disabled the network and firewire--still no effect. I may still find something else to disable in device manager.

Any suggestions on sorts of things to disable?

[Chalfant]

Sorry, don't know why I thought you were using Cubase.
Anyway...
My machines are not connected to the internet and have NO software installed other than music apps. Well, my XP32 bit machine does.

One thing I've learnt is to have a clean mean machine.
You probably know all this but try hitting cnt-alt-del and list what is running in the background.
Firstly I would check this and stop any non essential apps.
What does it say under the performance tab for PF and memory usage?

It could just be the settings are amuk somewhere in your audio and yes, related to your interface AND your sequencer.
I have to say it usually is about 80% of the time.

Have you called tech support for your interface?

Let us know

[Marko]

Chalfant,

Thanks.

My machine is not connected to the internet.

Task manager shows that programs running in the background of XP64 seem to be much the same for my WXP platform. I can't find any non-essential stuff. My machine is a pretty barebones set up and dedicated to music exclusively.

I even uninstalled all the other 64 bit drivers associated with Stormdrum2 and my ILOK key. I thought possibly it was interfering with the VE 64, but it had no effect.

The amount of memory used seems to accurately reflect the amount of samples I load. It's the cpu that spikes when there's several notes being played and even when VE idles the cpu goes up to 40 or 50% in the task manager indicator. Even higher on the VE gauge.

I've been communicating with VSL tech and they're stumped too.

Marko

[Haydn]

This is a weird one as I've been running the VE 64 since it first came out on WXP x64 and it has always had very low CPU usage.

Have you tried uninstalling the VE and cleaning all traces, then downloading and reinstalling?

Is it possible you may have a problem with the CPU? Do you have the latest motherboard BIOS and cpu updates?

Jim

[Marko]

Jim,

I uninstalled VE and VI and installed them again, but there was no difference. Perhaps I did not clean all traces. What would I do in addition to running the uninstall program to clean all traces?

The CPU seems fine with VE in WinXp32.

I tried another music program, a small trial version of EastWest sounds that launches with a Kompact player and it played with no problem. It's not a 64 bit program but it played and launched on XP64 with no problems. I loaded up about 4 instruments, there was no audio distortion and the cpu level remained low. It was close to zero while the player was idle.The Kompact player used the same Asio Echo PCI driver that VE uses.

I tried previous versions of the Echo driver from 7.3 to 7.02 and there was no significant difference.

I swapped the Echo Mia with an RME HDP9652 card, but there was no difference. CPU still went too high and the audio distorts.

I have not yet tried updating the BIOS. or CPU updates. I'm worried that it may affect the way VE operates in WIN32, which currently runs smoothly. I'll check the Intel site.

What about memory allocation? I have plenty of ram, but do I need to set anything in virtual memory or the paging file? I don't understand how that works and I think I'm using default XP64 settings.

Marko

[Haydn]

Marko,

You shouldn't need to play around with any memory settings, at least I haven't. I just loaded it up and it's worked fine.

Have you posted on the Vienna forums about your issues? Maybe other users have run into this.

Jim

[Marko]

Jim,

I posted this problem on their site a while back and I just bumped it back to the top. I've been in contact with VSL tech support by email. They've been troubleshooting it for about a week or two now.

What do you think about this behavior (which I just noticed in the Windows task manager): when I start W32 my system uses about 140 megabytes of memory and when I start VE in W32 my sytem uses about 331 megs--no samples loaded; just an empty frame. By contrast, when I start W64 my system uses 200 megabytes of memory and when I launch VE it uses about 1 gigabyte of memory (no samples loaded just an empty frame.

Why would VE in W64 absorb so much memory? Something is wrong there. What do you think?

Marko

[Haydn]

1 Gig without anything loaded is definitely not right. I just looked at my current sequence that's loaded. I have 2 instances with both almost totally loaded with 16 instruments in the first and 14 in the other. Total memory I'm using is 823 MB. CPU usage is 4% and that's with a Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHz. I have 6 GB of memory in my machine.

Jim

[Marko]

I cannot figure this out. I formatted the partition with W64 on it, made a fresh install of W64 on that partition and still have the same problem.

VE on the W32 platform works well, and even with Vienna Suite convolution reverb running the cpu in VE doesn't exceed 8% and the taskmanager gauge is even lower.

I'm stumped.

My W64 came with service pack 2. I don't think there's any other service pack for W64 that I need. Is there?

Any other ideas?

Marko

[Marko]

Well, I installed a new western digital SATA drive (7200), formatted it, installed W64 and all the programs loaded up, but it is just as bad as before. The CPU spikes. It takes very long to load a basic matrix and VE idles at bout 25%. The cpu goes way up when I play a note. Adding a convolution reverb brings the whole browser to a halt and everything is delayed by about 10 seconds. Pretty much same as before.

So I don't think it is a hard drive problem, but at this point I don't know I've narrowed down the range of causes or perhaps missed something else.

Any other ideas?

Marko

[Marko]

Late breaking news:

I think a BIOS upgrade did the trick.

I'll report more later. I just want to see if this stability remains.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Marko

[Haydn]

There was an issue with one of the GigaByte motherboards having a high latency. A BIOS upgrade ended up fixing the issue.

Here's a link to the DPC Latency Checker: http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

Jim

[Marko]

Yes. It was the BIOS upgrade that fixed it. W64 boots faster too.

My computer is about two years old and the motherboard upgrades for it are already hidden deep in the recesses of Intel's legacy section.

The real treat is having Vienna Suite open so smoothly inside VE. Before I fixed the Bios, this was not working properly in W64. I want to compare Vienna Suite to Altiverb on my W32 platform. I like Altiverb, but it does not run on aW64 system.

Thanks again everyone for your help. It was a matter of narrowing it down.

Marko

[Haydn]

Marko,

I'm glad it's finally working properly. BIOS updates are always one of the first things I do when troubleshooting problems. WXP x64 is using the full 64 bit capabilities of the computer which is why you can run 32 bit and not run into problems.

Altiverb needs a x64 version. I would really like to purchase it but won't until they finally move into the 64 bit world.

Jim