Windows 7

[raweber]

Anyone messed around with Windows 7, yet? I'm building a music computer and my current hangup is to OS. I need one, and haven't got a ton a money right now (read, I shot my wad on Garritan products without thinking about what I would run them on...)

Anyway, I can use Windows 7 Release Candidate for free until next March (so can you, if you like), and was wondering if anyone else is working with it, yet.

Tech specs - I'll be running Sonar 7, Finale 2007, and the various Garritan Libraries, both KP and Aria.

[Reegs]

Yep,

Seven is really nice. I got Sonar 7 PE running on it without many issues. Most came from driver support. Fortunately there are some legacy modes you can run most of your hardware in until W7 driver releases. No experience with Finale on it. Garritan plugins seemed to run OK too.

[Haydn]

I've been using Windows 7 RTM version for the past week on my non-music machine. I'm really liking it. It loads up much quicker and shuts down in a fraction of the time of Windows XP. Some of the issues I was having with XP have disappeared as well.

I'm going to wait until I upgrade my music computer before installing the x64 version of Windows 7. It is time consuming moving over everything to the new OS.

Jim

[Reegs]

Isn't the startup animation lovely?

[cellist]

Hi raweber,

I installed Windows 7 RC on my laptop to test, and I liked it so much [better than Vista] that I installed it on my main desktop. I've had minimal issues, and it seems the programs I've tried are actually more compatible with Windows 7 than they were with Vista. I've had no problems running Finale 09 with GPO 4, Adobe CS4, and several games.

If you do have a compatibility issue beyond changing the Windows compatibility settings, Microsoft also provides a Windows XP virtual machine you can download separately. It basically runs a full version of XP inside Windows 7, so it's slower, but does the job for really old software.

Even though I was able to install the upgrade on top of Vista, I would do a backed-up, clean install of Windows 7 for simplicity.

In summation, I think it's what Windows Vista should have been. I would highly recommend upgrading.

cellist

[etLux]

On the Windows XP emulation in Windows 7, I believe I
read that that's only available on Pro and Ultimate (not
Home) versions. Anyone know if that's correct?

Great to hear that things seem to be going relatively
smoothly for those of you running the RTM!

Best,



David
-----
David Sosnowski
www.DavidSosnowski.com

[cellist]

David, that's correct. XP Mode is available in Pro, Enterprise, and Ultimate editions of Windows 7. The Windows 7 Release Candidate is an Ultimate build, so it supports XP Mode.

As a side note to those who have XP/2000 and haven't upgraded to Vista yet, I'd wait to upgrade until Win7 or beyond. Vista has not been a pleasant experience.

[germancomponist]

I'm going to wait until I upgrade my music computer before installing the x64 version of Windows 7. It is time consuming moving over everything to the new OS.

Jim

Same here. I think when all runs fine and ram is cheaper we PC users will be in a wonderland! Whats a Mac? :D

[KeithW]

Windows 7 RTM seems to work fine, and the Vista drivers for my Edirol UA-101 installed with the compatibility trick (they haven't released the drivers for W7 yet.)

It seems a little more responsive on the same hardware.

Keith W.

[Haydn]

To use the XP Compatibility mode you must have a CPU that supports processor-based virtualization support (Intel and AMD). So you would need one of the newer CPU's installed. My older Core 2 Duo doesn't have this support so I'm not able to use this mode.

Jim

[cellist]

Thanks for mentioning that, Jim. I have a new Core 2 Duo, but when I installed the XP feature, I had to manually enable virtualization in the Task Manager.

[kitekrazy]

To use the XP Compatibility mode you must have a CPU that supports processor-based virtualization support (Intel and AMD). So you would need one of the newer CPU's installed. My older Core 2 Duo doesn't have this support so I'm not able to use this mode.

Jim

Are you 100% sure about that? I thought this was more dependent on the motherboard.

[Craig F]

Are you 100% sure about that? I thought this was more dependent on the motherboard.It's the CPU that needs the support. It can be disabled in the firmware if a company (Sony) cares to do this. Intel, very stupidly, disabled the Virtualization features in some lower end versions of the Core 2 CPUs.

[raweber]

Hey, guys,

What are you using for drivers on Windows 7? I finally got my computer working this weekend (bad memory chip) and I downloaded the latest build of Asio4All (doesn't say it's specifically for Windows 7). I'm getting all sorts of stuttering and dropouts.

Any advice for settings to help with this?

[cellist]

Hi raweber,

I'm using Vista drivers when I can't find W7 ones. But actually, I haven't been able to get ASIO4ALL working correctly, either. I don't have access to my main machine right now, but when I do, I'm going to run this debugger: http://tippach.business.t-online.de/asio4all/enum4ks.exe

Anyway, I've been using DirectX audio lately, and the latency is actually well-reduced from DirectX drivers in Vista.

You might also try giving the ASIO4ALL application administrator rights and putting it in Vista SP2 compatibility mode and see how it goes. I doubt that will do anything, but it's worth a shot.

[buckshead]

A word of warning for European users.

I understand that because of EU regulations regarding Internet Explorer not being part of the package, the option available will only be a complete install from scratch, not an update. This means that everything will need to be backed up and all settings, drivers, installed programs etc will be lost and will have to be re-intalled. I suppose this means that all software with registration will need to be unregistered and then re-registered, if possible.

As the computer magazine I read this in said : "WHAT FUN"

I suggest that you check this out before buying, it could be very expensive.

[keithjfuller]

Hey, guys,

What are you using for drivers on Windows 7?

i'm using my mac.

...sorry, i couldn't help myself.

[DPDAN]

i'm using my mac.

...sorry, i couldn't help myself.
me too, and I'm not sorry :p

[keithjfuller]

me too, and I'm not sorry :p

i wasn't either. i was just trying to be nice.

[Jerry W.]

While I certainly prefer my mac over PC, I use both in my studio. I am REALLY liking what I have seen about Win 7. I played around with it a lot earlier in the summer, but not with music stuff. If it actually lives up to the promise, I think MS finally got something right! Vista was not a happy experience for me. I couldn't BELIEVE how much of a resource hog that OS is.

Here's to hoping the best for Windows 7. It's the closest thing to Mac OS that MS has been able to produce. And that is a good thing.

:)

Jerry

[mixolydian]

As some of you mentioned Mac, what's the benefit using Mac over PC on a DAW? When it comes to Logic there's no choice. What else?

[Jerry W.]

As some of you mentioned Mac, what's the benefit using Mac over PC on a DAW? When it comes to Logic there's no choice. What else?
Digital Performer is also a Mac-Only DAW.

As to benefits, well... I say use whatever you like the most as long as it does what you need. Macs have the REPUTATION as being more stable, less prone to crashing, etc. (which, in my experience has been mostly true). But, as I say above, if Windows 7 lives up to the stability I have noticed, MS finally as an OS that is worth something.

Now, most people who have the wherewithall to have their DAW on a single PC and use it ONLY for music, will tell you that they are rock solid and stable. Most of the Windows machines I use at work are super reliable, but it is because they are only doing ONE thing. It's when you use it for email, internet, movies, games, music, homework, etc. (i.e. what most people use them for) THAT is when you usually start to experience instability, viruses, etc.

In that case, Macs are more reliable. Besides the fact that you have the same company creating both hardware AND software, you also have way less chances for getting impacted by viruses. Those two factors alone have a great deal to do with the reputation Apple has earned in the stability area. The OS experience is different as well. Can you do the same things with a PC, in most cases, YES. It's just the interface is different.

Just my two cents. I know there will always be macs vs pc wars. And while I very much love my mac, I am certainly not a windows hater.

Jerry

[mixolydian]

Thanks, Jerry. I know about the good ol' Mac vs. PC flame but I thought this is an old hat as XP is rock stable. :p

[CHudson]

Using win 7x64 here. Been very stable. FWIW, Vista was far more stable for me than XP was too. Go Figure..
My Mac goes into kernal panic ( same as win BSOD) and forces me to restart about once every 2 weeks or max 3.
My PC DAW ( XP, Vista, Win 7) has BSOD'd a max of about once a year.
In my experience, my PC platform is far more stable than my Mac( running Leopard and now snow leopard)
Since Intel design the CPU and Apple have to follow their specs for MOBO layout, as well as PCIex specs etc , the whole "Apple designed it" does not hold near the mystique as it used to. The pin outs on a mac MOBO are the same as a PC mobo, less the apple "dongle" chip. Same chips inside. The thing is, since Apple seriously limit hardware combinations, their hardware/software should be bullet proof when compared to a PC and the millions of combinations possible. Sadly this is not the case.
Anyways, as for pc vs Mac it comes down to , and always has, what software do you want to use. especially for DAW's as most are platform specific.





Digital Performer is also a Mac-Only DAW.

As to benefits, well... I say use whatever you like the most as long as it does what you need. Macs have the REPUTATION as being more stable, less prone to crashing, etc. (which, in my experience has been mostly true). But, as I say above, if Windows 7 lives up to the stability I have noticed, MS finally as an OS that is worth something.

Now, most people who have the wherewithall to have their DAW on a single PC and use it ONLY for music, will tell you that they are rock solid and stable. Most of the Windows machines I use at work are super reliable, but it is because they are only doing ONE thing. It's when you use it for email, internet, movies, games, music, homework, etc. (i.e. what most people use them for) THAT is when you usually start to experience instability, viruses, etc.

In that case, Macs are more reliable. Besides the fact that you have the same company creating both hardware AND software, you also have way less chances for getting impacted by viruses. Those two factors alone have a great deal to do with the reputation Apple has earned in the stability area. The OS experience is different as well. Can you do the same things with a PC, in most cases, YES. It's just the interface is different.

Just my two cents. I know there will always be macs vs pc wars. And while I very much love my mac, I am certainly not a windows hater.

Jerry

[Jerry W.]

Using win 7x64 here. Been very stable. FWIW, Vista was far more stable for me than XP was too. Go Figure..
My Mac goes into kernal panic ( same as win BSOD) and forces me to restart about once every 2 weeks or max 3.
My PC DAW ( XP, Vista, Win 7) has BSOD'd a max of about once a year.
In my experience, my PC platform is far more stable than my Mac( running Leopard and now snow leopard)
Since Intel design the CPU and Apple have to follow their specs for MOBO layout, as well as PCIex specs etc , the whole "Apple designed it" does not hold near the mystique as it used to. The pin outs on a mac MOBO are the same as a PC mobo, less the apple "dongle" chip. Same chips inside. The thing is, since Apple seriously limit hardware combinations, their hardware/software should be bullet proof when compared to a PC and the millions of combinations possible. Sadly this is not the case.
Anyways, as for pc vs Mac it comes down to , and always has, what software do you want to use. especially for DAW's as most are platform specific.

Hmmm. I have had the opposite experience with my PC and Macs. Although - i admit, I am not running either Leopard or Snow Leopard, but Tiger. (and I am not running any intel Macs yet - G4 and a G5 - so that is why I put in the "Apple designs hardware and software" comment - I haven't yet experienced Intel world of Mac yet) I had a TERRIBLE time with Vista, and XP has been pretty good. I Only have Kernel Panics maybe once or twice a year with my Macs. But I will probably get the BSOD once a month (max) with XP. I am not sure which of our experiences is the most common, but I totally agree with you about the software.
There are only a handful of single platform-only DAWs out there. I know Logic and DP are totally mac-only, and Sonar and FL Studio are PC only, (sure there are more) but I know there are versions for both Mac and PC for Cubase, Tracktion, Ableton Live, Reason, Reaper, ProTools, etc. Seems like a lot more DAW developers are allowing us to stick with our preferred platform than they used to.

It would be nice to see some study with real world results of users of both PCs and Macs and how many times crashes, bsod's and kernel panics really happen. But I suspect that would also have a lot to do with software used and conditions.

Jerry