Garritan Brass in GPO4

[Jnday]

Hi everyone,

Just downloaded GPO4 and I love the powerful sound of the Project SAM Brass! Both simulated and sampled brass instruments have always suffered in MIDI over the years, in my opinion, being a trumpet player myself. The GPO sound set is leaps and bounds beyond anything I have ever used to represent the bold horn sections in my mixes.

However, I still have a bit of a gripe. The tounging on all the brass instruments is more of a "Fwa" than a nice sharp "Ta". This works well when I do some legato stuff, but I can never use these for bright staccato passages. I'll have to overlay a synth trumpet or an actual recording of myself paying the real thing.

Does anyone else feel this way, or am I missing some setting or keyswitch that would allow me to get a sharper attack on the brass?

Thanks!

[rbowser-]

Hi, Jnday

I'm glad you're enjoying the brass in GPO4. It works especially well to layer the SAM samples with the other GPO brass. You can weave in and out with the best of both worlds - the original GPO samples and these SAM samples. On their own, the old GPO brass can be too tame, and on their own, I find the SAM samples too constantly forte, and even a bit too wobbly on their pitch.

"Fwa" versus "Ta"--that's it exactly. There aren't separate staccato articulations, and it can be a limitation. You probably understand that the hardest attack possible comes with the highest velocity values - I mean full throttle values of 127. Used in combination with CC1 for volume, those are the max values you can get for fast staccato passages.

That's why a few days ago I was looking into editing the SFZ text files, to see if I could somehow trick the samples into getting a sharper attack - but that didn't work, and when I posted my thread about doing this work, nobody stepped forward with ideas of how to do more. Gunther suggested recording passages to audio, then shortening the file so the attack passage plays faster - but my goodness, that would be difficult to do and make sense out of a score. Lots and lots of editing involved.

Layering sharp synth attacks is a good idea if this more aggressive attack is something you're really needing for a piece.

Randy

[AlanPerkins]

Would upgrading to the full SAM brass library solve this?

[rbowser-]

Would upgrading to the full SAM brass library solve this?
Hi, Alan - Considering both the price and the reputed sophistication of the full SAM brass library, you probably do get multiple articulations in the full version, including "Ta" staccato attacks.

To date, however, the special upgrade price doesn't seem to be settled on - and it was explained recently that the full SAM requires Kontakt - it wouldn't be a library that works in Aria.

Randy

[reberclark]

Hi all - FYI the full projectSAM brass requires Kontakt Player only (included) - not the full Kontakt version. :)

Cheers.

[rbowser-]

Rightio, Reber--thanks for making that clear. I meant Kontakt Player, and like all libraries that work with KP2, it's included with the library.

Randy

[Tom Hopkins]

The full SAM brass includes many extra features including separate staccatos. Keep in mind that if we gave you everything you could ever want in SAM brass there would be no incentive to upgrade to their full package. The SAM Project people wouldn't think that was such a terrific thing, I suspect. ;)

Tom

[KeithW]

The full SAM brass includes many extra features including separate staccatos. Keep in mind that if we gave you everything you could ever want in SAM brass there would be no incentive to upgrade to their full package. The SAM Project people wouldn't think that was such a terrific thing, I suspect. ;)

Tom
Now if only the full SAM Brass worked with Aria instead of Kontakt...

Keith W.

[rbowser-]

Now if only the full SAM Brass worked with Aria instead of Kontakt...

Keith W.
That would be cool, Keith - but most of us will have KP2 around for quite awhile at least to use JABB, CMB, The Strad and The Gofriller. So...

Randy

[germancomponist]

...Gunther suggested recording passages to audio, then shortening the file so the attack passage plays faster - but my goodness, that would be difficult to do and make sense out of a score. Lots and lots of editing involved. ...

Randy

Randy, shortening the samples with a good time-stretch plug works very well, and you have to do it only once.

Save your results as new instruments and you can use them on all your new compositions! ;)

Gunther

PS. I am not sure where I had read it, but there are some free samplers aviable.

[rbowser-]

Ah, that's right--Thanks for explaining the idea again, Gunther. My problem is that I don't have a way to save create instruments like that since I don't have a sampler to edit them in. "Good time-stretch plugin" is another problem. Oh well!

Randy

[germancomponist]

Ah, that's right--Thanks for explaining the idea again, Gunther. My problem is that I don't have a way to save create instruments like that since I don't have a sampler to edit them in. "Good time-stretch plugin" is another problem. Oh well!

Randy

Cubase and a free sampler could help. ;)

But without joking, there are much plugs what you can download as a demo.

[P.T.]

I know that developers don't want to give us access to the samples because of theft.
A possible solution would be to give us a knob that would vary the start time of the sample and an ADSR that would let us shape the sound a bit.
This way we could have a fast attack or a slow attack.

This is also why I like sample that have a quik attack. You can play fast lines that work fairly well and then if you want to do a line where all of the notes have a slow atack you can just turn the attack knob until you get what you want.

[Haydn]

The full SAM brass has all sorts of articulations including sustained, staccato with round robin, crescendos, etc. They also have multiple mic positions. The new version comes with the Kontakt Player 2 which can be upgraded for free to the new 3.5 version. I use this along with GPO4 and it works great.

Jim

[Jnday]

Thanks, everyone, for all the discussion. I wouldn't, of course, expect GPO to incorporate all of Project SAM, but the omission of hard tonguing brass seems a little odd for a full orchestra library. It keeps us John Williams fans pretty boxed in a corner. I haven't really composed much of anything outside of it being just for kicks, but when I do make a fast piece, I really want to add some kickin' orchestral brass! Not only would it be great to be able to have some sharp attacks, but it would also be pretty amazing to simulate double tonguing by making another short attack when you release the key.. just like the hand bells do for their rolls.

[germancomponist]

Hm, I have an idea.... . ;)

[marce]

I found this trick, using ARIA, can help someone:

If you "power on" the Legato switch, the fade-in of the attack is removed when you play overlapping the notes. If you want all the notes sound without with this fade-in -like they have faster attacks- mantain pressed some note out of the normal range of the instruments (the greyed ones in the keyboard) all the time. Now, even if you dont play legatos, the attacks will sound faster.
Hope i expressed myself in an understable way.

[Jnday]

Marce, thanks for the tip. I'll try that next time I fire up the sound system.

[marce]

Marce, thanks for the tip. I'll try that next time I fire up the sound system.

Well, i see now what kind of "attack of the sound" you was looking for....:p ;)

Edit: Sorry... in my poor english i related "fire up" with "flames" more than "power on" understanding you had some shortcircuit with your sound system...:wow: