Music Production PC Or Mac ??

[musicmad]

Hi to all musicians,

When purchasing a PC mainly for music production what platform would be best recommended to run a DAW on, Windows PC ? or Mac OSX ?

[Temple Cloud]

Hi to all musicians,

When purchasing a PC mainly for music production what platform would be best recommended to run a DAW on, Windows PC ? or Mac OSX ?

Gahhhhhhhhhhhhh!

I think that's about the most sensible advise you'll get if you start asking incendiary questions like that~|

Seriously, and I'm not attempting to be flippant here, it depends how rich you are. I use a PC, and I have recorded with a friend who has a mac. There is no difference in sound quality.
Mac Pros: They are slightly more stable. There is not much in it these days, if you set up and look after your PC carefully.
You can run Logic on a Mac. In terms of bang per Buck, Logic is very, very good. The set of plugins and stuff it comes with is pretty amazing.But that wil be easily offset by the amount of money you save buying a PC

PC pros: It's just cheaper! Cheaper cheaper cheaper. It does the same stuff in the same amount of time and you just have to spend a lot less money.


I can't see myself moving to mac. They're nice, though, and I wouldn't knock anyone who uses one. They just cost a lot more and don't do any more. You could say that about what I buy in terms of wine, cars or watches too.

Personally, the only reason I run windows is my DAW. I'm linux for everything else and I wish they would port all the good stuff over to the penguin.

[qbert]

Hi to all musicians,

When purchasing a PC mainly for music production what platform would be best recommended to run a DAW on, Windows PC ? or Mac OSX ?

If you're asking what platform is prevalent and most popular in today's professional music industry (hobbyists and weekend warriors aside), the answer is most definitely mac. Period.

What's best for you? That's like you asking me what kind of sandwich I should have for lunch without your knowing my personal tastes, how much time I have to eat, how much money I have to spend, food allergies, etc. etc...

:confused:

[keithjfuller]

i've used both, but now i'm with a mac. i switched because of my music software and i will never go back. this isn't too say that macs are just better than pc's, but for me they are.

i don't have to worry about what version of windows i need to get the best results. i don't have to worry about new drivers every five minutes. i don't have to worry about my soundcard settings. i don't have to worry about what hardware i need to make my computer perform great. with my mac, everything just works perfectly right out of the box.

i don't agree that they are more money. initially yes, but not in the long run. i bought my macbook pro like 4 years ago. i have never spent one penny on new hardware or repairs, and it still smokes 90% of other laptops out there. try keeping a pc laptop for that long with no work and still have it run perfectly. when i had pc's hardware would go bad, updates would render certain programs and hardware useless. i spent hours upon hours upon hours which totaled to months of my life troubleshooting on my pc's, and i think its ridiculous to waste your time doing that.

computers are probably some of the most important things people own. everyone spends hours on it every week. they use them for everything they do, so why not just fork out a little bit more for something nice. i don't even mean get a mac - if you want a pc spend a little more and get a nice one.

if you needed a new car you wouldn't buy a go-kart just because it was a lot cheaper. that's what buying a cheap pc is like - especially if you're buying it to run music software. it's just pointless.

that's my $0.02.

[Henry Buck]

Macs just work perfectly? Let's not get carried away. I've owned a MacBook Pro for two years, and it's had its fair share of problems. The greatest of these is that the motherboard has died three times. Yikes. But anyway, I've had to deal with my share of bugs. Notation showing up as plain text in Finale. Older versions of Kontakt Player not working with the new OS. That kind of thing. Finder (equivalent to Windows Explorer if you don't know) occasionally gets bugged or freezes up, and I've experienced many freezes in other programs. My fault? Yeah, probably, but the same could be said for Windows machines. In fact, I didn't want to pick and choose, so I just installed Windows on my Mac. (That's possible through Boot Camp, a very nice feature of OS X 10.5+.) I primarily use OS X for music production, but Windows sometimes picks up the slack (for example, when I need to use a sample library that Finale doesn't recognize on Intel Macs), and it's been very reliable; at least, no less reliable than OS X.

It's true that OS X is coded a bit more cleanly (in UNIX) and that this helps to protect against viruses and program incompatibilities. It's also true that a user with no idea what he is doing is less likely to damage a Mac than a Windows PC because of various safeguards. I think both operating systems have their strengths. OS X simplifies and elucidates many tasks that I find needlessly complicated in Windows. On the other hand, I'm often blown away by the absence of basic, needed features. Still no right click button on mouses and track pads? Seriously? The system utilizes just as much right clicking as Windows, so Apple evidently believes users would rather Ctrl + click than right click. Okay. The latest OS, Snow Leopard, finally allows users to restore deleted files from the Trash to their original locations. Windows has had that feature for, what, fifteen years?

If it wasn't for Boot Camp, I'd say go with a PC. However, you can have the best of both worlds on a Mac, if you can just afford it.

[LFO]

Macs just work perfectly? Let's not get carried away. I've owned a MacBook Pro for two years, and it's had its fair share of problems. The greatest of these is that the motherboard has died three times. Yikes. But anyway, I've had to deal with my share of bugs. Notation showing up as plain text in Finale. Older versions of Kontakt Player not working with the new OS. That kind of thing. Finder (equivalent to Windows Explorer if you don't know) occasionally gets bugged or freezes up, and I've experienced many freezes in other programs. My fault? Yeah, probably, but the same could be said for Windows machines. In fact, I didn't want to pick and choose, so I just installed Windows on my Mac. (That's possible through Boot Camp, a very nice feature of OS X 10.5+.) I primarily use OS X for music production, but Windows sometimes picks up the slack (for example, when I need to use a sample library that Finale doesn't recognize on Intel Macs), and it's been very reliable; at least, no less reliable than OS X.

It's true that OS X is coded a bit more cleanly (in UNIX) and that this helps to protect against viruses and program incompatibilities. It's also true that a user with no idea what he is doing is less likely to damage a Mac than a Windows PC because of various safeguards. I think both operating systems have their strengths. OS X simplifies and elucidates many tasks that I find needlessly complicated in Windows. On the other hand, I'm often blown away by the absence of basic, needed features. Still no right click button on mouses and track pads? Seriously? The system utilizes just as much right clicking as Windows, so Apple evidently believes users would rather Ctrl + click than right click. Okay. The latest OS, Snow Leopard, finally allows users to restore deleted files from the Trash to their original locations. Windows has had that feature for, what, fifteen years?

If it wasn't for Boot Camp, I'd say go with a PC. However, you can have the best of both worlds on a Mac, if you can just afford it.

Just to clarify, right clicking is 100% supported on OSX. Maybe this is a Macbook issue? I've never used a MacBook and am not familiar with the touchpad, etc. on it. On iMacs, Mac Minis and Mac Pros you can use a mighty mouse that supports right clicking or a 3rd party mouse (Logitech for example) and right click.

-Kevin

[LFO]

I think it is great that this has not devolved into a platform flame war! :)

I was on PC and my PC was rock solid stable using Windows XP. However, there are idiosyncrasies with Windows and Intel architecture that I just could not take anymore. This had to do with, amongst other things, drivers and hardware incompatibilities (UAD on Wintel is one example). Mac is more expensive at the initial cash outlay, but as Keith described the total cost of ownership over a 3 - 5 year period leans towards Mac, at least in my experience.

OSX is superior to Windows in a whole slew of ways. Better memory management, separation of user and application execution spaces, OS efficiency (especially with Snow Leopard. Apple just raised the bar a *huge* amount.) compatibility with hardware and so on. OSX is by no means perfect, but for me it was a great improvement over Windows.

That being said, Windows is obviously a valid choice. (I'm trying to keep this objective. ;) ) There is a wider range of software that runs on Windows than on Macs. I had to give up several programs I really liked when I made the switch to Mac.

I have not run into any issues where I've not been able to do something on a Mac that I could do on Windows. I'm not sure what the limitations are that people refer to, especially since none of the comments contain specifics other than the recycle bin issue, but that is fixed now. Overall I have found terminal to be very powerful and the same with AppleScript. I like how Mac applications feel and work together. Very different and more efficient than what I had on Windows. Like Henry said, if you need Windows it is only a Boot Camp away.

When it comes to the quality of music you can create, both platforms are equal. A deciding factor should be what DAW you want to use. If it is Windows only (Cakewalk) or OSX only (Logic, Digital Performer) then you don't have much of a choice. When you do choose you will find with the right attention to detail that both operating systems will provide you with a powerful platform to make music. That is what it is all about, right?

Good luck on your choice!

-Kevin

[efiebke]

I think it is great that this has not devolved into a platform flame war! :)

Just a quick aside. . .

One has to wonder how many PC verses MAC heated debates have presented themselves on this and other music/video related bulletin board. Lots, I'm sure! LOL! :p

It seems that each topic-focused bulletin board has its frequently debated topics. On the nursing-focused bulletin boards, the REALLY HEATED debate is usually the "RN verse LPN" topic. (One time there was a REALLY HEATED debate on the benefit and risks of breast feeding. Unbelievable!) On the news & politics bulletin boards, the heated debates are usually related to some kind of "Liberal verses Conservative" topic. As you know, currently in the U.S., the VERY FREQUENT heated debate topic is over healthcare (and, predictablely, it's along Democratic/Republican party lines).

And there are those musician/audio engineering/composer focused bulletin boards. "PC verses MAC" is probably the number 1 frequently debated topic. A close second would be those "Logic verses Cubase verses ProTools verses Sonar" debates.

Now, getting back on topic. . .

I have both PC and MAC computers in my happy studio. I also own the current version of Logic on the MAC side (and an old version of LAWP - Logic - on the PC side). On the PC side, I own older versions of Cubase and SONAR. I've had issues with both computer platforms. I've had issues with all of the above software programs. And, they all have done me good. For me, it comes down to preference. I really like the Logic Pro program which led me to the Macintosh computer platform 2 years ago. But I've done a fair amount of work on older versions of Cubase and SONAR. (I still have the floppy disks to Cakewalk when it was just a sequencing program.)

I am a software junky! LOL! :p (AND! FYI, I paid for each and every program and update! ;) )

Back to the debates. . .

Obviously, I get caught up in these debates sometimes. It's part of the fun of using these bulletin boards. It's also a nice way to exchange ideas and learn, provided that the debates & discussions are kept relatively civil.

By the way. . . I never got involved with the debate on breast feeding. I don't remember why it got so wildly heated. But, they had to lock the thread because it got so hot!

Cheers. . . and. . . Happy Composing! :)

Ted

[Henry Buck]

Just to clarify, right clicking is 100% supported on OSX. Maybe this is a Macbook issue? I've never used a MacBook and am not familiar with the touchpad, etc. on it. On iMacs, Mac Minis and Mac Pros you can use a mighty mouse that supports right clicking or a 3rd party mouse (Logitech for example) and right click.

-Kevin
Yup. What I meant is that it's odd that Apple itself does not make right-clicking mouses or track pads. If you're using those you have to Ctrl + click instead. Maybe the Mighty Mouse is just too iconic to change, hah...

[FLWrd]

I'm a happy mac user (since '87 or so), and Windows and Linux (and Solaris). The general user experience on a mac is superior, but you pay for that. If that's not that important to you (and let's face it, most people get along with their pc, as long as they use it sensibly), then your choice should be constrained only by the question how you want to use your computer.

You could start by trying to figure out what software (and possible hardware, such as graphic tablets or sound cards) you would like to use. If you find that the one you really like only runs on one platform, you've found your answer.

If you end up with a choice, look for support in your direct environment. If people around you use macs and can support you, a mac is a better choice than a pc (and vice versa).

One thing about Windows: it requires a lot of maintenance and careful use in comparison to Mac OSX. You definitely need to factor in a virus checker in your budget.

Once you're done choosing, take a look at free software for common tasks, such as Open Office for text editing, Picasa for photo management (Windows and Linux, OSX comes with a photo app), GIMP for picture editing, etc. That can save you a few bucks.

[musicmad]

Hi guys great responses thanks..

Ive already purchased M-Audios Audiophile 192 PCI card for my music rig, so i suppose going for a MAC over PC now leaves me only one option, which is to install the card in a Mac Pro, given it's a console with PCI slots. But for me this piece of technology is way advanced in terms of me just needing to run a DAW and plugins on, not to mention the price... So am i right in saying that if i wanted to stay with the Mac platform i would have to ditch the PCI soundcard? and go for a different Mac using an external audio interface :confused:

Apart from Mac Pro what other Mac would be best to run my studio on :confused:

[Michael_uk]

Just a quick aside. . .

One has to wonder how many PC verses MAC heated debates have presented themselves on this and other music/video related bulletin board. Lots, I'm sure! LOL! :p

Ted
Ohhhh ... absolutely.

musicmad, you would only have to try a Google search to discover just about every passionate debate for and against both platforms.

However, just for the fun of it, here's my take. I'm with the PC and one of my reasons is that I prefer to built my own DAWs from the ground up. as far as I know, this isn't possible with the Mac.

Apart from this, I find that my PCs give good service and work reliably. In my experiences my PCs have been no less reliable than friends and colleagues with their Macs. Also, I believe that now the PC offers just the same capability as the Mac regarding audio and music production

Good luck with your decision. :)

[Craig F]

So am i right in saying that if i wanted to stay with the Mac platform i would have to ditch the PCI soundcard?
Well, you have to ditch the PCI card anyway if you go for a Mac Pro as it only has PCI Express slots.

[FLWrd]

Apart from Mac Pro what other Mac would be best to run my studio on :confused:
Even the lowliest iMac (current model) is absolutely sufficient for running most software, unless you want to load several multi-gigabyte sample libraries. A mac laptop cuts it too (I'm getting 16 tracks GPO at about 20% to 30% CPU usage in Logic on an almost 2 year old MacBook Pro). I agree that a Mac Pro is most likely overkill.

[LFO]

Hi guy's great responses thanks..

Ive already purchased M-Audios Audiophile 192 PCI card for my music rig, so i suppose going for a MAC over PC now leaves me only one option, which is to install the card in a Mac Pro, given it's a console with PCI slots. But for me this piece of technology is way advanced in terms of me just needing to run a DAW and plugins on, not to mention the price... So am i right in saying that if i wanted to stay with the Mac platform i would have to ditch the PCI soundcard? and go for a different Mac using an external audio interface :confused:

Apart from Mac Pro what other Mac would be best to run my studio on :confused:

My take would be to ditch the PCI card. PCI is well on its way out the door and a firewire interface gives you portability between systems. There is also the game of playing with interrupts on a Wintel box to ensure the best performance and no conflicts with other PCI peripherals. Yuck.

You should check out iMacs and Mac Minis. I have an iMac and really like it. (I am going to upgrade to a Mac Pro, but that has to do with me wanting a UAD card, etc.) iMacs just came out with the option to install 8 gig of RAM and that is all kinds of goodness. Just don't buy the 8 gig from Apple, it is too expensive. Go to a source like OtherWorldComputing and get quality RAM at a much lower cost.

Mac Minis are the least powered alternative, but if you won't be doing anything large (> 20 tracks) then it is an option. Like the iMac it has a Firewire 800 port. A slight downer is that you can only upgrade to 4 gig of RAM, but again for some reason I'm thinking your projects won't be large (did you say something to that effect?) and thus 4 gig might be plenty. I've had over 24 tracks running in 4 gig of RAM without issue.

Like Michael said, you can build your own PC too. If you do just verify that the motherboard you purchase is `friendly' with your sound card and any other things like a UAD card that you might purchase. If you put in a little homework your system will be very stable for you.

-Kevin

[reberclark]

Back in ancient times (the 80's) my decision was made on purely economic grounds. I had an Apple IIe, which I loved for its expansion slots, and wanted a Mac but they were WAY too expensive for me. I went with PC and have never regretted it.

[KeithW]

Hi to all musicians,

When purchasing a PC mainly for music production what platform would be best recommended to run a DAW on, Windows PC ? or Mac OSX ?

If you want to do SONAR, your only choice is PC. If your S/W of choice is LOGIC, your only choice is Mac. Otherwise, everybody's software runs on both platforms. Also keep in mind that every current Mac, by virtue that they are Intel based, are also PCs. All you need is a copy of Windows and free disk space. So you can have both for the price of one...

As far as which platform is best, it's hard to say anymore. The current (or soon to be current) operating systems- Mac OS 10.6 and Windows 7- are state-of-the art, 64-bit OSes. I use both platforms, both for music and for other purposes.

I do recommend USB-based Audio Interfaces instead of PCI-based ones, since they will work on laptops, desktops, Macs, and PCs. For example, my Edirol UA-101 works with all of the above, and quite well.

Keith W.

[NeoDavinci]

If you want to do SONAR, your only choice is PC. If your S/W of choice is LOGIC, your only choice is Mac. Otherwise, everybody's software runs on both platforms.

Not quite. Digital Performer is also Mac only.

[Martin Ward]

From Michael-UK

However, just for the fun of it, here's my take. I'm with the PC and one of my reasons is that I prefer to built my own DAWs from the ground up. as far as I know, this isn't possible with the Mac.Sure it is. You get a full development system with your Mac OS disk, including everything needed to build apps, DAWs, AUs, software instruments etc etc. — big learning curve though.

[musicmad]

All your responses have been great guys, thanks! So much...

However after surfing over to the Mac website and doing a spot check research on each of the Mac models I have to admit the iMac 24inc is some piece of technology)(~ it has really caught my eye with it’s beautiful design and after reading it's specs I've already made my decision. I don't know what held me back for so long upon trying to decide between a Mac or PC for running my music system on.

I suppose it's because Windows was my very first introduction to the world of computers and as such didn't wish to begin a hole new learning curve with a different OS. But now after analyzing the true nature of a Mac I don't think anything else comes close to them. seeing I’ve now made my choice on the platform I'll now be looking for a quality USB audio interface with MIDI connections, also for the DAW what would be recommended, Logic or Cubase.:confused:

[LFO]

I'm a former Cubase (on Windows) user so I can't speak to Cubase on Mac. As with every other DAW I hear good and bad about it. Where is the truth? I don't know. I like Logic alot and use it for my anything-but-orchestra music. I've been using Digital Performer for all things orchestral. Coming from Cubase Logic is very easy to learn. DP takes more time, but is worth it. You could go with any of them and be a happy camper. :)

Remember to purchase any upgrades to the iMac from a 3rd party vendor and not Apple. There is no use spending the extra $$ on Apple pricing. OtherWorldComputing is a great place as they show you exactly what you need to purchase depending on your Mac model.

-Kevin


All your responses have been great guys, thanks! So much...

However after surfing over to the Mac website and doing a spot check research on each of the Mac models I have to admit the iMac 24inc is some piece of technology)(~ it has really caught my eye with it’s beautiful design and after reading it's specs I've already made my decision. I don't know what held me back for so long upon trying to decide between a Mac or PC for running my music system on.

I suppose it's because Windows was my very first introduction to the world of computers and as such didn't wish to begin a hole new learning curve with a different OS. But now after analyzing the true nature of a Mac I don't think anything else comes close to them. seeing I’ve now made my choice on the platform I'll now be looking for a quality USB audio interface with MIDI connections, also for the DAW what would be recommended, Logic or Cubase.:confused:

[keithjfuller]

why do people keep saying that mac doesn't support right clicking? you just use two fingers when you tap the mouse or trackpad instead of one and it reads it as a right click.

[Temple Cloud]

Only on the Garritan forum, only on Garritan, could someone post something like 'hmm which is best, Macs or Pcs?' and not have it turn into a flame war. This is without a doubt, by an order of magnitude, the most polite forum I have ever visited! Well done!)(~

I really don't buy the idea that Macs save you money in the long term. I bought a s/h P4 pc about 5 years ago and all I've had to do to keep it running the latest software is spend about £250 on a new MB with a bit of memory and a quad core processor. I think my budget for keeping my PC just behind the bleeding edge is about £50 a year maximum. You can't get anywhere near that on a mac. Can you?
Macs are great. But they cost a lot more for not much more. If I was starting from scratch with a PC, I'd have to spend about £400 now and then a further £300 over the next 5 years. If you can get me anywhere near that, I'm all ears, as I'd quite like a mac. My reckoning is that to do the same thing on a Mac it would cost between 2 and 3 times that amount.

[dominick]

Just curious -

I have only owned two PCs, which did appear to be less expensive than Macs at the time for CPU power. They have been my choice mainly because of availability of compatible programs. However, when Mac owners state their preference over the PC, I am wondering if this is from experience with both OSs. The one thing I would like to know if MAC owners (who have also used PCs) have less problems with odd ball behaviors, due to registry problems, and the like, which can require some hours of time to fix.

I have never needed to take a PC in for repair, as it is always a software conflict or strange behavior that crops up from time to time. For example, I could not get the audio files in GPO ARIA to be unzipped and recognized on my newer machine, but they were on the older one. So I had to copy them from the old machine to the new one. I guess some of these problems could be fixed by reinstalling WindowsXP, but that would be a hassle.

So what I am wondering is that despite the higher cost of a MAC, if you value you time, might this OS be worth it in the long run?

[FLWrd]

I'm pretty experienced in the major platforms, but I really prefer a mac over Windows. The annoyance of the pop ups, the virus scanners that cannot update until you switch accounts (one PC only, the others work fine), the WiFi that stops working from time to time, mysterious frantic disk activity that locks up the machine, difficulty uninstalling software, etc., it just makes me dislike Windows. The other day my wife's brand new Vista laptop just started acting weirder and weirder, and the whole thing had to be reinstalled. That's something I've never had with any of my macs. And I've never had problems with interrupts and audio cards, either... I'm not going to claim the mac has no problems, just less. Recently update to 10.6, no problem at all.

So, if you can afford it, get a mac. If you only browse and email, get a user-friendly Linux system. If you want something cheaper, or just like to live dangerously :n:, get Windows.

[LFO]

Hello Dominick,
I'll second what FLWrd has said. I've worked with Windows since 1985, building PCs for small and medium businesses (mostly engineering firms) to put myself through college. I'm not biased against Windows, but I'll tell you some of the things I don't miss when I'm on my Mac:

1) The registry. Cleaning an application off of a Mac is easy and there are no registry corruption, etc. issues to deal with.

2) If I switch a USB peripheral from USB slot 1 to 2 I don't have to reinstall the drivers. (I *hate* that!)

3) Wireless has never dropped on my Mac. Each one of my PCs (2 laptops, 2 home built boxes, one *ahem* Dell.) lose wireless connectivity now and then for whatever reason(s).

4) Hardware conflicts. Playing with IRQs. Annoyances like finding that my UAD card is incompatible with the Northbridge chipset used on the motherboard I purchased because it was `sanctioned' by Steinberg for Cubase.

5) The overhead Windows requires. This particular topic has been magnified since the new, lean, faster, more efficient Snow Leopard has come out.

There are some things I do miss when I'm on a Mac, especially in the audio realm. There are a ton of great programs and VIs that are not available on Mac. The Tones2 Firebird was especially painful. :(

Macs do cost more up front, but in the 3 - 5 year cost analysis I think they have a solid case for at least being the same cost wise as a Wintel box if not less. What justifies the cost? I love OSX, it is a great operating system. Given I don't have much time for making music I value not having to deal with operating system issues. (Macs aren't perfect, but in my almost 2 years of having my iMac I've had zero hardware or operating system issues. Not one. Woot!) My time saved is worth spending some additional up front cash.

I'm not a Mac zealot, you can (obviously) do great things with Windows boxes. However, they do take more tender loving care and can be a real pain in the buttocks. (Sounds like my kids!) So, for those who are happy with their Wintel boxes I say kudos to them! I'll stick with my Mac though. :)

-Kevin

6) No more disk defragmenting!

[musicmad]

LFO:
Coming from Cubase Logic is very easy to learn


So Cubase has a more steep learning curve then Logic, is there a lot in it ?

[LFO]

So Cubase has a more steep learning curve then Logic, is there a lot in it ?

Sorry, bad wording. I meant that since I had experience working in Cubase it was not difficult to move to Logic. I think learning from scratch they would be about equal.

-Kevin

[dominick]

Hello Dominick,
I'll second what FLWrd has said. I've worked with Windows since 1985, building PCs for small and medium businesses (mostly engineering firms) to put myself through college. I'm not biased against Windows, but I'll tell you some of the things I don't miss when I'm on my Mac:

1) The registry. Cleaning an application off of a Mac is easy and there are no registry corruption, etc. issues to deal with.

2) If I switch a USB peripheral from USB slot 1 to 2 I don't have to reinstall the drivers. (I *hate* that!)

3) Wireless has never dropped on my Mac. Each one of my PCs (2 laptops, 2 home built boxes, one *ahem* Dell.) lose wireless connectivity now and then for whatever reason(s).

4) Hardware conflicts. Playing with IRQs. Annoyances like finding that my UAD card is incompatible with the Northbridge chipset used on the motherboard I purchased because it was `sanctioned' by Steinberg for Cubase.

5) The overhead Windows requires. This particular topic has been magnified since the new, lean, faster, more efficient Snow Leopard has come out.

There are some things I do miss when I'm on a Mac, especially in the audio realm. There are a ton of great programs and VIs that are not available on Mac. The Tones2 Firebird was especially painful. :(

Macs do cost more up front, but in the 3 - 5 year cost analysis I think they have a solid case for at least being the same cost wise as a Wintel box if not less. What justifies the cost? I love OSX, it is a great operating system. Given I don't have much time for making music I value not having to deal with operating system issues. (Macs aren't perfect, but in my almost 2 years of having my iMac I've had zero hardware or operating system issues. Not one. Woot!) My time saved is worth spending some additional up front cash.

I'm not a Mac zealot, you can (obviously) do great things with Windows boxes. However, they do take more tender loving care and can be a real pain in the buttocks. (Sounds like my kids!) So, for those who are happy with their Wintel boxes I say kudos to them! I'll stick with my Mac though. :)

-Kevin

6) No more disk defragmenting!

You bring up some good points kevin. Registry cleaning is an ongoing task, especially when uninstalling something. Defrag and system clutter, as well as other issues need to be addressed with cleaning software from time to time. However, I still find that most of the software I personally download tends to be Windows only. I guess the best of both worlds would be to have both systems to play with!

Dominick

[LFO]

Only on the Garritan forum, only on Garritan, could someone post something like 'hmm which is best, Macs or Pcs?' and not have it turn into a flame war. This is without a doubt, by an order of magnitude, the most polite forum I have ever visited! Well done!)(~

I really don't buy the idea that Macs save you money in the long term. I bought a s/h P4 pc about 5 years ago and all I've had to do to keep it running the latest software is spend about £250 on a new MB with a bit of memory and a quad core processor. I think my budget for keeping my PC just behind the bleeding edge is about £50 a year maximum. You can't get anywhere near that on a mac. Can you?
Macs are great. But they cost a lot more for not much more. If I was starting from scratch with a PC, I'd have to spend about £400 now and then a further £300 over the next 5 years. If you can get me anywhere near that, I'm all ears, as I'd quite like a mac. My reckoning is that to do the same thing on a Mac it would cost between 2 and 3 times that amount.

I can see the case going either way depending on a host of factors. For instance, the argument could be made that £50 a year maximum is low. A motherboard (at least one that is current and not made out of cardboard) will cost you at least that much, probably more depending on your needs. Processors usually follow suit with motherboards and then RAM follows because your old RAM isn't compatible with the new boards. Its kind of a cascading cost case. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but I don't think the box would be a little behind the bleeding edge, it would be a lot. That being said, if the box has the horsepower you need then it doesn't really matter how far behind the curve it is.

We have another thread where I posted a small spreadsheet around the costs of Mac vs Windows when I was having my doubts. I got feedback and did some rethinking and found that the cost case was not as bad for Mac as I had envisioned. Make no mistake, Mac will always cost more than PC, but not 2 to 3 times.

There is no way the initial cost for a Mac will meet or beat the equivalent of a PC. What I found with PCs is that I would run into unexpected costs. For instance, I wanted a UAD-1 card. My motherboard chipset wasn't compatible, so I had to buy a new motherboard. Because my motherboard was almost two years old (*Gasp*) I could have either bought an old motherboard or get a current motherboard and a new processor. (Thankfully in this case my memory was safe.) The new processor required a new cooler, so there goes another 50 bucks. You get the idea. With Macs, you either add on extra parts or you don't. Because hardware is under such tight control you don't have to worry about this kind if issue. Powercore is another good example of an add on causing PC owners to go through upgrade hell.

Then there is the Windows issue. If you change the motherboard, you are going to have to install Windows from scratch and everything else that goes with it. Been there, done that over and over. I got to the point where I said my time was too valuable to spend dealing with those kinds of issues. I'm two years on a Mac and have not had a single problem. (Not that some people don't. I am now furiously knocking on wood. :) )

Long story short, there are ways, justifications and preferences to build a case for either side. Although my posts lately are more pro Mac, I am not anti Windows. Both can deliver the goods. Each has its strengths and weaknesses, you have to decide which set you would prefer to deal with.

I think people get so heated on the topic because they take the issue personally. Somehow they get it in their heads that if they don't `prove' their platform is the better they are admitting that they made a mistake or are dumb or something else silly. Back in the early 90s I worked for Lotus Development and I spent many hours at client sites arguing with Microsoft peers over who's software was better. It was such a huge waste of time! The fact is, no solution is the right solution for everyone. Each person should weigh what the best solution is for him/her and then do it. It's easy!

This post has become *much* too long. ~| I think there is a lot to agree with what your case is Temple. Mileage varies with each individual case. Macs are cool and if someday you think laying out the extra cash for one is worth it, go for it! You'll enjoy the platform. In the meantime, especially with Windows 7 on the horizon, enjoy your current platform. It can rock and roll too. :)

-Kevin

[CHudson]

From Michael-UK
Sure it is. You get a full development system with your Mac OS disk, including everything needed to build apps, DAWs, AUs, software instruments etc etc. — big learning curve though.

I think he meant build the hardware, not software development.

[CHudson]

Yup. What I meant is that it's odd that Apple itself does not make right-clicking mouses or track pads. If you're using those you have to Ctrl + click instead. Maybe the Mighty Mouse is just too iconic to change, hah...

Actually Mighty Mouse supports right clicking. HOWEVER.. Apple have it turned off by default. You have to go to system settings/mouse and change the right click to secondary function instead of primary. Not sure about macbooks trackpad, although I am sure it is similar.

[CHudson]

Just curious -

I have only owned two PCs, which did appear to be less expensive than Macs at the time for CPU power. They have been my choice mainly because of availability of compatible programs. However, when Mac owners state their preference over the PC, I am wondering if this is from experience with both OSs. The one thing I would like to know if MAC owners (who have also used PCs) have less problems with odd ball behaviors, due to registry problems, and the like, which can require some hours of time to fix.

I have never needed to take a PC in for repair, as it is always a software conflict or strange behavior that crops up from time to time. For example, I could not get the audio files in GPO ARIA to be unzipped and recognized on my newer machine, but they were on the older one. So I had to copy them from the old machine to the new one. I guess some of these problems could be fixed by reinstalling WindowsXP, but that would be a hassle.

So what I am wondering is that despite the higher cost of a MAC, if you value you time, might this OS be worth it in the long run?

I own both, My Mac crashes more than my PC FWIW, so that myth is lost on me. That said, I researched all components in my PC and built it myself. That's what Apple say they do as well, so go figure.
I think the Mac has some great features, and really I enjoy the UI better, but it does have some oddities. Copying a CD/DVD on Mac without 3rd party app is the biggest joke in the world. The whole, you have to open an App(finder) ,to launch an app seems odd to me when windows lets you launch apps in a folding menu available from anywhere(start button), That makes sense to me.
The Mac does seem harder to mess up from a "system files" stand point, no registry to screw with, dll's etc. And the GUI on Mac is just so darned pretty :)
Bottom line , personal preference. They both work fine, although in my case, My custom PC I find slightly more stable than my Mac. I just installed Snow Leopard though, so my opinions on stability might change, or not.

Good luck, can't go wrong either way.

[CHudson]

Good luck, can't go wrong either way.

I should add, you can't compare a Mac with a 299 Dell. You have to have the same quality components in the PC as the Mac to make a fair comparison.

[RichR]

I'm not interested in the Mac vs. PC Wars. Work with what you have to the best ability you can. They both offer enough "fire power" to get the job done. You need only understand your system and its assets and limitations and then work with your ASSETS and LIMITATIONS.

Enough said.....

[upsider]

I'm not interested in the Mac vs. PC Wars. Work with what you have to the best ability you can. They both offer enough "fire power" to get the job done. You need only understand your system and its assets and limitations and then work with your ASSETS and LIMITATIONS.

.....

Next time someone tells me their system is inherently better than mine because of the platform, can I borrow that? ;)