Cage listening test

[donnie]

Here is an excerpt of Cage\'s 4:33 for piano and violin. Is it sampled or real?
http://www.dssoundware.com/sounds/CAGE.mp3 (\"http://www.dssoundware.com/sounds/CAGE.mp3\")

Donnie

[This message has been edited by donnie (edited 09-20-2001).]

[nicholash]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by donnie:
Here is an excerpt of Cage\'s 4:33 for piano and violin. Is it sampled or real?
http://www.dssoundware.com/sounds/CAGE.mp3 (\"http://www.dssoundware.com/sounds/CAGE.mp3\")

Donnie

[This message has been edited by donnie (edited 09-20-2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I\'ll have a go, but please don\'t laugh at me if I get it wrong (because my ego might kill me!). Besides, it is difficult to tell over this crappy one inch speaker that came out of my old telephone set. Anyway, I think the piano is fake but the violin has too much expression to be anything but the real McCoy. Donnie, you owe us an answer soon.

Nicholas

[Robert Kral]

Hi Donnie,

After repeated listenings, in mono and stereo, I\'ve come to the conclusion that the above example of yours is sampled. Plenty of realism, don\'t get me wrong (you\'ve obviously been practising).

Actually it\'s extremely convincing. The only way I know it\'s sampled is the fact that you\'ve put it up on the internet, therefore you must have sampled it at some point, even if that does mean its a sample of a performance as opposed to a sequence of more traditional samples.

I\'ve always thought sampled performances were the way to go, I think this just proves it.

Then again I suppose I could be wrong.

How many responses to this thread before you tell us?

[dandean]

I actually went to a John Cage concert at the Cornish Institute a number of years ago, where I was actually introduced to Mr. Cage by one of my professors. This was one of the selections on that evening\'s program amongst other solo and ensemble compositions. I\'ll have to say, I think I felt more \"pathos\" and \"introspection\" in the rendition that evening than is evidenced here in this sampled work. I certainly wish you would stop quantizing everything to 100%. It makes the result sound stiff and unconvincing.

DD

[This message has been edited by dandean (edited 09-21-2001).]

[ursatz]

Sampled or real, it\'s a superb performance of one of the high points in 20th century music.

[Z6]

Z6Stunning! Beyond anything I\'ve ever heard. But while I was building a shrine to you, I suddenly smelled a rat.

I have a live recording of the original (the famous Greenwich Village recording where Cage scratched his gonads at 2.57-3.19; to rapturous applause), which I compared to your rendition, and the pointy bits in the waveformwere exactly the same.

I\'ve listened to it on $12,000 pair of Zanwigger Headphones and a couple of baked bean tins, and you sir, are a fraud!

I believe you used four separate 1 minute samples followed by 33 seconds of heavy breathing. Adding the extra 10 seconds was the real giveway. I have informed the FBI so you can expect a visit from Mr. Cage\'s grandson, Gummo (who could lose his inheritance if your \'bootleg\' hits the market).

I think you should lose this pathetic \'quantized\' version and put a bit of elbow grease into future efforts, otherwise the rest of us will learn nothing.

I was introduced to Mr. Cage by my psychiatrist and he pinched my arse.

[This message has been edited by Z6 (edited 09-21-2001).]

[Thomas_J]

I can\'t seem to be able to download the file. It turns out to be 32 bytes only.

Thomas

[Chadwick]

I also have Thomas\' problem, whether I just double click or \'save target as\'.

[Bill]

Tacit

[Z6]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thomas_J:
I can\'t seem to be able to download the file. It turns out to be 32 bytes only.

Thomas<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Click harder guys. Click harder.

[dandean]

Hi Donnie,

I kept hearing something I wasn\'t sure about, so I checked the score at bar 104 beat 4...I show it as a quarter rest. Is this what you have?

Hope this helps,
DD

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Hahahaha...rather like \"the players\" in Hamlet. Bravo. Some ideas are best spoken in code.

Right on, Donnie. I think I\'ll print and frame this thread.

[killerbobjr]

Oooo -- I can\'t stand to see them suffer anymore. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif For those of you who are wondering what this listening test is all about, check out this: http://allclassical.com/cg/acg.dll?p=acg&sql=1:1037~C (\"http://allclassical.com/cg/acg.dll?p=acg&sql=1:1037~C\")

[donnie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thomas_J:
I can\'t seem to be able to download the file. It turns out to be 32 bytes only.

Thomas<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That being said I would strongly recommed you take a class on orchestral literature before shooting off at the mouth anymore! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Donnie

[dandean]

Killer,

You could erase your post ASAP and maybe someday redeem yourself...

DD

[Chadwick]

Thanks Killer (I could have remained confused for months), but I think Donnie\'s MP3 was a cop out anyway. I\'m sure it was too short by about 4:32.8\".

Now that I know which articulations to look for, I have to say that both the violin and piano parts seem a little \'static\' to me. My guess is it\'s sampled. Real players would never play with such lack of animation http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

[killerbobjr]

Sorry Dan, I get distressed watching fish flop around out of water. It\'s either toss \'em back in, or club \'em on the head and put them out of their misery. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif

[Chadwick]

swim swim swim \'Oh look! - a castle.\'
swim swim swim \'Oh look! - a castle.\'
swim swim swim...

[PaPa Chalk]

WOW
http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif

thats funny http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif

lets all be nice to each other now http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif

[This message has been edited by PaPa Chalk (edited 09-22-2001).]

[MidiDimwit]

I want my silence and I want it now!

Hey, if you\'re gonna make a joke at least do it right and give us the 4:33 of silence. The file gave me a mediaplayer error, so you only succeeded in getting about 3 seconds of silence. 2 to get the mediaplayer error, and 1 for me to say WTF!

[dandean]

I don\'t know what gives you guys, it worked for me...

DD

[Synth2k]

If you listen closely, you can almost hear a pin drop...

Ryan.

------------------
Sonic Control
www..com (\"http://www..com\")
Giga Users Network at
www..com/gigasampler/ (\"http://www..com/gigasampler/\")

[Chadwick]

Yeah, but getting back to the point of the thread - do you think that the pin you almost hear drop is sample playback, a live performance, or a sample of a live performance (which I\'ve always felt was kind of cheating)?

[MidiDimwit]

I wish I could just delete this whole thread http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...

[Munsie]

As a semi-pro lurker, I found this thread to be totally confusing and void of any point. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[nicholash]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Munsie:
As a semi-pro lurker, I found this thread to be totally confusing and void of any point. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Munsie,

I believe, as Bruce Richardson pointed out, that Donnie initiated this thread to make a point using ideas expressed in \'coded\' terms.




[This message has been edited by nicholash (edited 09-24-2001).]

[Robert Kral]

hmmm, I just thought it was FUN.

[dandean]

I think this thread should have been entitled the \"Cage Litmus Test\".

DD

[Z6]

Donnie may have had his reasons for the thread, but what he gave the rest of us was a lot of fun. No point to it (just like music) other than pointless humor. Nobody was hurt (but maybe one or two people extracted a black eye for themselves) and it was in pretty good taste.

Thanks, Donnie. And thanks Dan (for adding some \'weight\' - not to mention a fine analysis - to the joke).

[This message has been edited by Z6 (edited 09-24-2001).]

[ryounger]

You know, if you cup your hand around the speaker and put your ear right up to it, you just might hear the ocean.

Maybe instead of 4\'33, the piece should have been named 32 bytes :-)

Ok, (sniff sniff.)

What a funny thread.

Russ

[nicholash]

Donnie,

When are you going to reveal whether your 4\'33\" excerpt is real or sampled?: If it is sampled, I hope you provide us with the midi file, because I find it hard to believe that you used samples!

Nicholas
p.s. I think I\'m starting to learn how to talk in \'code\'! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif