Accordion listening exercise [Archive]

nicholash

09-16-2001, 08:03 PM

Hi,

Having done pipe organs, and received interesting responses (including one from a developer of sample CD-ROMs featuring pipe organs), I thought I\'d try accordions this time, especially as the \"MP3 Demos of Archtop Guitars, Tenor Banjos, and Accordions\" thread was popular.

This listening exercise is definately easier than the pipe organ one, and I hope Michiel Post from Post Audio Media and Kip from Bardstown Audio to have a go! (since both have developed sample CD-ROMs featuring accordions).

There are five excerpts (128 kbps encoded mp3s) featuring live performances (i.e. no sequencing) including accordion sounds:
http://www.btinternet.com/~veridical.sounds/acc1.mp3 (\"http://www.btinternet.com/~veridical.sounds/acc1.mp3\") http://www.btinternet.com/~veridical.sounds/acc2.mp3 (\"http://www.btinternet.com/~veridical.sounds/acc2.mp3\") http://www.btinternet.com/~veridical.sounds/acc3.mp3 (\"http://www.btinternet.com/~veridical.sounds/acc3.mp3\") http://www.btinternet.com/~veridical.sounds/acc4.mp3 (\"http://www.btinternet.com/~veridical.sounds/acc4.mp3\") http://www.btinternet.com/~veridical.sounds/acc5.mp3 (\"http://www.btinternet.com/~veridical.sounds/acc5.mp3\")

Which excerpts contain real and which contain sampled accordions?
Please give reasons for your choices and try not to be fooled by the artificial reverb included in some of the excerpts.

Best regards
Nicholas
p.s. These \'listening exercises\' are meant to be fun and interesting, so please have a go.
So far, I\'ve had few responses to the one titled \"Listening exercise containing electronic organ\" (which is actually more about brass sounds than organs), and I have received no responses to the one titled \"Fun listening exercise\".
It really doesn\'t matter if you get the answers wrong. Please just try and get some discussion going.

esperlad

09-16-2001, 08:57 PM

Well....here is my guess. 3 and 5 sound like they came from a keyboard. They sounded organ like. 2 was good, but I am sure about that one....

The rest sound liked like real players. I only hope the person playing the music did not have that silly like one always sees on Lawrence Welk...

nicholash

09-16-2001, 09:13 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by esperlad:
Well....here is my guess. 3 and 5 sound like they came from a keyboard. They sounded organ like. 2 was good, but I am sure about that one....

The rest sound liked like real players. I only hope the person playing the music did not have that silly like one always sees on Lawrence Welk...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi esperlad,

Thanks very much for being the first to respond. I\'m not going to reveal the answers just yet; I\'ll wait for some more replies first.

Lawrence Welk does not feature in any of those excerpts http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif but I believe all the accordion players on those recordings are regarded as top-class professional musicians in their field.

Best regards
Nicholas

Precison

09-17-2001, 05:13 AM

I\'m guessing that all are real, except 5, sounds like a 2080 expansion card to me. Plus all the other ones sound as if I can hear keys being clicked and the nuances of number 4 really sound authentic. That\'s my 2 cents.

Bardstown Audio

09-17-2001, 05:42 AM

Hi Nicholas,

If I get a chance, I will gladly check out these demos. My situation is that I have two Mac\'s and two PC\'s in the studio with one of the PC\'s as a dedicated internet PC, which has no audio capabilities considering I do not have any sound card installed on that particular PC. In order for me to check out demos, MP3\'s, etc., I have to download them on my internet PC, burn them to a CD, and then load them onto one of my other computers which do have full audio capabilities.

At the moment I have several things I am trying to finish up, but hopefully in the next day or so I can try to check them out.

I will be putting up a couple of more demos on my MP3 page of a another accordion, which is not featured on my MP3 page, but is one of the instruments on the \"Classic Accordions\" CD. I will also be putting up a different electric archtop jazz guitar demo, which is not yet featured on the MP3 page as well. I will make an announcement as soon as I upload them to my site.

Thanks,

Kip
Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

nicholash

09-17-2001, 06:32 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Precison:
I\'m guessing that all are real, except 5, sounds like a 2080 expansion card to me. Plus all the other ones sound as if I can hear keys being clicked and the nuances of number 4 really sound authentic. That\'s my 2 cents.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Precision,

Thank you very much for responding. I agree that occasionally hearing the keys being clicked makes the overall sound seem more \'real\', especially when the instrument sounds fairly close up. I have encountered sample sets that include separate samples of key clicks for the instrument being sampled. I think it is often that these \'little\' details really do help \'realism\'. I notice an increasing (& welcome IMHO) trend for sampled instruments to include release samples that are triggered to sound when the (midi) keys are released. An obvious use for this is for harpsichords, but in fact many instruments can benefit from carefully crafted and implemented release samples.

Best regards
Nicholas

nicholash

09-17-2001, 06:44 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bardstown Audio:
Hi Nicholas,

If I get a chance, I will gladly check out these demos. My situation is that I have two Mac\'s and two PC\'s in the studio with one of the PC\'s as a dedicated internet PC, which has no audio capabilities considering I do not have any sound card installed on that particular PC. In order for me to check out demos, MP3\'s, etc., I have to download them on my internet PC, burn them to a CD, and then load them onto one of my other computers which do have full audio capabilities.

At the moment I have several things I am trying to finish up, but hopefully in the next day or so I can try to check them out.

I will be putting up a couple of more demos on my MP3 page of a another accordion, which is not featured on my MP3 page, but is one of the instruments on the \"Classic Accordions\" CD. I will also be putting up a different electric archtop jazz guitar demo, which is not yet featured on the MP3 page as well. I will make an announcement as soon as I upload them to my site.

Thanks,

Kip
Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Kip,

I do hope you have the time to listen to the mp3 excerpts. Maybe now is the time to invest in an inexpensive soundcard for your internet pc. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif (In fact, after the old Intel 486 pcs of six or so years ago, I\'ve found it hard to find a fairly modern pc that doesn\'t already come with a soundcard or on-board audio of some sort).

Best regards
Nicholas
p.s. Are you still intending to send me an mp3 of your new sampled concert grand piano for my Veridical Sounds sampled piano comparison web page?

csduke

09-17-2001, 06:58 AM

You gotta love the homey sound of an accordion. Reminds me of my youth in southern Wisconsin (the \"Dairy State\" to those not familiar). There was a polka band with accordion on every street corner (well in every bar anyway).

Anyway, I would say 3 and 5 are sampled. 3 because there is not as much variation in timber. 5 simple because I assume there is more than one sampled example here and it would be the easiest to \"fake.\" They all sound great though.

Craig Duke

nicholash

09-17-2001, 07:08 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by csduke:
You gotta love the homey sound of an accordion. Reminds me of my youth in southern Wisconsin (the \"Dairy State\" to those not familiar). There was a polka band with accordion on every street corner (well in every bar anyway).

Anyway, I would say 3 and 5 are sampled. 3 because there is not as much variation in timber. 5 simple because I assume there is more than one sampled example here and it would be the easiest to \"fake.\" They all sound great though.

Craig Duke <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Craig.

We don\'t get many accordions round here in London these days. I wonder why? http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

I agree that there\'s great playing in those mp3 excerpts, including the one(s) using sampled instrumemnts.

Best regards
Nicholas

Michiel Post

09-17-2001, 10:46 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bardstown Audio:
Hi Nicholas,
My situation is that I have two Mac\'s and two PC\'s in the studio with one of the PC\'s as a dedicated internet PC, which has no audio capabilities considering I do not have any sound card installed on that particular PC. In order for me to check out demos, MP3\'s, etc., I have to download them on my internet PC, burn them to a CD, and then load them onto one of my other computers which do have full audio capabilities.

Kip
Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Kip
I had the same problem 2 years ago. I have 2 Mac\'s and 3 PC\'s in the studio and only 3 machines with high quality audio cards. The internet computer has low budget multimedia speakers (so you can hear the windows bleep when making errors). I invested $ 50 in 3 network cards and several cables and now I have all 5 computers working as a network. I can download files, MP3\'s and updates on the dumb PC and them use these files on the computer that needs them.
Could be a good alternative for your situation.

Kind regards,

Michiel Post

Michiel Post

09-17-2001, 10:47 AM

Hi Nicolas
You\'re really having fun there with these listening exercises!
I\'ll listen to these files tomorrow, don\'t take them away from your server yet.
Hope these are a little bit easier, as you kind of fooled us on the pipe organ by saying some had real organ pipes and some used samples. It turned out none of the organs used samples, they rather used oscillators. Are the fake accordion files using samples or oscillators? Well, I\'ll try to find out for myself...
Michiel Post

noenoeil

09-17-2001, 12:25 PM

Hi all!
Since Accordion is one of the easyest instruments to fake, it\'s almost impossible to hear the differences... Also, I heard some of our \"musette\" drummers here, they can sound like a rythm box in an old Farfisa without problems...

-There\'s two guys playing \"les feuilles mortes\". If not, it\'s fake, because it\'s hard to have a vibrato on right hand and no vib on left hand. >Sounds real.
-The second waltz seems real too, but in the end we have a trill and the lower note sounds \"repeated\", like a sampler sounds. Nor the guy is really a good technician or it\'s a sampler, I will not bet my ugly english accent on this. > Real for me.
-If the third is sampled, the guy who adds some \"cough,cough\" samples in the end is a vicious little swindler. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif. >Sounds real.
-4) I worked with accordionists who have MIDIfied their instruments, like Francis LAI or Philippe SERVAIN here in France. It\'s possible to mix synth B3 and natural sound. >Real
-5) I never heard this kind of \"jeu\" in any accordion that I know, but I\'m not an accordion specialist. >Real but...

I really give my highest respect to the programmers if some or all of the tracks are fake. My ego will kill me in this case. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

Please guys forgive my english writing (all frenchies always say this), I hope I made myself understandable. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

I take one more line here to send my deepest thoughts to the american people...

noenoeil

[This message has been edited by noenoeil (edited 09-17-2001).]

noenoeil

09-17-2001, 12:36 PM

Héhé I just heard the Bardstown Classic accordions MP3 demos, that\'s what I call Fake.

Bardstown Audio

09-17-2001, 01:06 PM

Noenoeil,

It is quiet obvious that you have no idea what high quality professional accordions sound like.

Kip
Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

nicholash

09-17-2001, 01:14 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by noenoeil:
Hi all!
Since Accordion is one of the easyest instruments to fake, it\'s almost impossible to hear the differences... Also, I heard some of our \"musette\" drummers here, they can sound like a rythm box in an old Farfisa without problems...

-There\'s two guys playing \"les feuilles mortes\". If not, it\'s fake, because it\'s hard to have a vibrato on right hand and no vib on left hand. >Sounds real.
-The second waltz seems real too, but in the end we have a trill and the lower note sounds \"repeated\", like a sampler sounds. Nor the guy is really a good technician or it\'s a sampler, I will not bet my ugly english accent on this. > Real for me.
-If the third is sampled, the guy who adds some \"cough,cough\" samples in the end is a vicious little swindler. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif. >Sounds real.
-4) I worked with accordionists who have MIDIfied their instruments, like Francis LAI or Philippe SERVAIN here in France. It\'s possible to mix synth B3 and natural sound. >Real
-5) I never heard this kind of \"jeu\" in any accordion that I know, but I\'m not an accordion specialist. >Real but...

I really give my highest respect to the programmers if some or all of the tracks are fake. My ego will kill me in this case. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

Please guys forgive my english writing (all frenchies always say this), I hope I made myself understandable. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

I take one more line here to send my deepest thoughts to the american people...

noenoeil

[This message has been edited by noenoeil (edited 09-17-2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks noenoeil for your detailed response.

You are correct that there are two different accordion sounds playing together in the first excerpt.

Also, you are correct about being able to mix synth \'B3\' organ and natural sound using accordions with midi.

I\'ll reveal the answers after some more responses, but please don\'t let your ego kill you if you get any wrong. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

Best regards
Nicholas

Bardstown Audio

09-17-2001, 01:14 PM

Originally quoted by Nicholas:

<<<<<<<\"I\'ve found it hard to find a fairly modern pc that doesn\'t already come with a soundcard or on-board audio of some sort)\".>>>>>>

Hi Nicholas,

You are absolutely right about new consumer computers, which are available, fully assembled, and on the shelf at various retail store outlets. Personally, I do not buy PC computers which are already assembled off of the shelf. Though, Macintosh is a different situation. I assemble my own PC computers with the highest quality parts available.

I do have my other audio computers in the studio networked, but for safety reasons I do not like to have an internet computer as part of the network.

You are also right about the fact that I should have a sound card on my internet computer, so I am going out to purchase one right now. I will be setup with internet audio capabilities within the next few hours and check out these MP3\'s.

Thanks,

Kip
Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

nicholash

09-17-2001, 01:52 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bardstown Audio:
Originally quoted by Nicholas:

<<<<<<<\"I\'ve found it hard to find a fairly modern pc that doesn\'t already come with a soundcard or on-board audio of some sort)\".>>>>>>

Hi Nicholas,

You are absolutely right about new consumer computers, which are available, fully assembled, and on the shelf at various retail store outlets. Personally, I do not buy PC computers which are already assembled off of the shelf. Though, Macintosh is a different situation. I assemble my own PC computers with the highest quality parts available.

I do have my other audio computers in the studio networked, but for safety reasons I do not like to have an internet computer as part of the network.

You are also right about the fact that I should have a sound card on my internet computer, so I am going out to purchase one right now. I will be setup with internet audio capabilities within the next few hours and check out these MP3\'s.

Thanks,

Kip
Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks very much Kip.

I have five non-networked pcs:

1) Word Processing pc. 486 DX2 66 MHz 16 MB RAM; Windows 3.11; no soundcard (!); used also as fax machine with external modem (and as emergency backup internet pc).

2) Synth Patch Editor pc. 486 DX2 66 MHz 16 MB RAM; Windows 95; no soundcard; Yamaha VL70m or MU128 provides the midi interface.

3) Internet pc. Pentium II 350 MHz; Windows 98; Yamaha SW1000XG soundcard.

4) Primary Music pc. Pentium III 1.0 GHz 512 MB RAM; 98lite Professional; Yamaha SW1000XG and Creamware Powersampler soundcards; Cubase 5 sequencer.

5) Secondary Music pc. Pentium II 350 MHz 256 MB RAM; Windows ME; SoundBlaster Live! soundcard (for soundfont playback).

Best regards
Nicholas

noenoeil

09-17-2001, 07:19 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bardstown Audio:
Noenoeil,

It is quiet obvious that you have no idea what high quality professional accordions sound like.

Kip
Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kip,

I\'m sorry if I was rude in my last post, really. I meant the programming sounds fake, your sounds are great and I\'m looking forward to test your CD!

Sorry again, my mistake.

And yes, I have a very good idea about how a high quality accordion sounds, believe me (even if I\'m partially or totally wrong at Nicholas\'s quizz. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

noenoeil

[This message has been edited by noenoeil (edited 09-17-2001).]

nicholash

09-17-2001, 07:30 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by noenoeil:

Kip,

I\'m sorry if I was rude in my last post, really. I meant the programming sounds fake, your sounds are great and I\'m looking forward to test your CD!

Sorry again, my mistake.

And yes, I have a very good idea about how a high quality accordion sounds, believe me (even if I\'m partially or totally wrong at Nicholas\'s quizz. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

noenoeil

[This message has been edited by noenoeil (edited 09-17-2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi again noenoeil,

I get the impression that you know quite a lot about accordions. Am I right?

Again, please don\'t worry if you get any of the answers to my \'listening exercise\' wrong. I\'m just glad that you took the time and trouble to have a go and respond (which is more than can be said of a lot of contributors to this forum).

Best regards
Nicholas

noenoeil

09-17-2001, 09:38 PM

:::>Nicolash
Maybe I missed the point here :
In your accordion mp3\'s, are you talking about total programming (separates accordion sounds played and/or sequenced) or is there a possibility that programmers, if fake, used entire sampled phrases? It changes everything...
And no, as I said before, I\'m not an accordion specialist but I often wrote music for accordeonists, I had luck to work with great accordéon players.
I really love this instrument, especially in a \"modern\" context or in an orchestra.
There\'s not a lot of \"modern\" accordion lovers here in France, because accordion is too often associated with musette, wich is not a music considered as \"hype\" among pre-senior people. (just half-kidding, it\'s very late here) http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

Bardstown Audio

09-17-2001, 10:52 PM

Quoted by Noenoeil:

<<<<<Kip,

I\'m sorry if I was rude in my last post, really. I meant the programming sounds fake, your sounds are great and I\'m looking forward to test your CD!>>>>>

No problem. Sorry I misunderstood you. A lot of the accordion and guitar solos were sequenced, for the sake of getting MP3\'s together quickly.

Thank you,

Kip
Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

[This message has been edited by Bardstown Audio (edited 09-17-2001).]

Bardstown Audio

09-17-2001, 10:55 PM

Hi Nicholas,

I will have the pianos ready before too long. Things always take longer than what I originally anticipate. When I announce their completion, please contact me at that time about your midi sequences.

Thanks,

Kip
Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

nicholash

09-17-2001, 11:42 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Michiel Post:
Hi Nicolas
You\'re really having fun there with these listening exercises!
I\'ll listen to these files tomorrow, don\'t take them away from your server yet.
Hope these are a little bit easier, as you kind of fooled us on the pipe organ by saying some had real organ pipes and some used samples. It turned out none of the organs used samples, they rather used oscillators. Are the fake accordion files using samples or oscillators? Well, I\'ll try to find out for myself...
Michiel Post<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Michiel,

I\'ll keep the accordion excerpts on my web space at least until the end of tomorrow. (It\'s amazing how quickly I\'ve run out of web space already).

I believe the Allen classical and theatre organs used in the excerpts employed samples rather than oscillators. It was the Rodgers organ that used a combination of real pipes and oscillators.

Best regards
Nicholas
p.s. If you have a little spare time, might you also try the other recent \'listening exercises\'?

Bardstown Audio

09-18-2001, 12:15 AM

Hi Nicholas,

The Autumn Leaves is two accordions.....both straight box accordions. The melody is French musette sound with two middle reeds with a thirty point spread in the tuning on a straight box accordion. The comping is being done on a straight box instrument as well.....possibly the same accordion with a single middle reed set. (Clarinet sound)

The second MP3 accordion waltz is a straight box accordion with French musette tuning with three middle reeds sets being used....maximum tuning spread of forty points, with a third set tuned somewhere close in the middle of the other two reed sets.

The third MP3 is another straight box accordion with two middle reed sets tuned Continental musette, with a tuning spread between 15 points to a maximum of 20 points.

The forth MP3 is an \"Art Van Damm\" style tone chamber accordion, using the low bassoon reed sets on the majority of the MP3, but on the tail end, there is a \"bandoneon\" sound with one low bassoon reed set in the tone chamber and a middle reed set outside of the tone chamber being played together in unison. Near the end, there is also a second accordion playing \"fill,\" using a single middle \"clarinet\" reed set.

I believe the fifth MP3 is probably a midi accordion or a Farfisa Syntacordion, with a full master accordion with all reed sets playing.... two fairly dry tuned middle reed sets with a maximum of a five point tuning spread. There is some sort of a light synth sound mixed in with either the acoustic accordion reeds on either a midi accordion or Farfisa Syntacordion. Definitely not a Cordovox.

The accordion musician playing these tunes is a well developed accomplished musician. I would give him or her an A+

Kip
Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

Chadwick

09-18-2001, 12:42 AM

I\'ll guess 3 & 5 as fakes, mainly because they seem to have the least accordion-like articulation.

Michiel Post

09-18-2001, 01:50 AM

Hi Nicolas,
Very nice pieces again, and fun to listen to!
Will you do a piano listening exercise next?
Here is my guess.

no. 1 Sounds very real in my ears, the expression, the dynamics, the articulation...everything is real and the sad/melancholic emotion expressed by the musician is very very well done. I never heard a sampled instrument \'sing\' as this beauty does.

no 2. it seems real to me. Beautifull musette sound.

no 3. electronic. there is no expression, no natural swells, no true articulation. The piece is a little short but it lacks dynamics in my view.

no 4. sounds like a sampled instrument to me. Mainly because the way it\'s played. It is played by a keyboard player not an accordionist. But on the other hand it\'s probably a midi-fied accordion playing its own sound plus several synth sounds.

no 5 sounds absolutely electronic to me. There is no \"life\" accordion sound in this performance. I miss the breathing and the typical intonation: samples!

Kindly
Michiel Post
www.postaudiomedia.com (\"http://www.postaudiomedia.com\")

PS. This reminds me I must make demo files of my Accordion library. Maybe someone who follows this post has a good midi file or other suggestions (Kip?).

[This message has been edited by Michiel Post (edited 09-18-2001).]

Chadwick

09-18-2001, 03:23 AM

Michiel,

What about finding someone who has a midi\'d accordion and getting them to play a few pieces into a sequencer?

You\'d have to add the expression yourself, but if you record the AUDIO of the accordion as well as the midi you\'d have a great point of reference.

Michiel Post

09-18-2001, 03:38 AM

Hi adwick
That is a good idea. Thanks!

By the way, a while ago I got this very usefull tip from Bruce Richardson regarding my accordion samples. He told me to add the needed expression data using a midi wind controller. I tried that and it really works very good. It\'s a little strange in the beginning to have your breath control something that is normally controlled by hand, but after a little getting used to it, this worked fine. First you record the notes in the sequencer then you overdub the expression data.
Michiel

nicholash

09-18-2001, 05:53 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by noenoeil:
:::>Nicolash
Maybe I missed the point here :
In your accordion mp3\'s, are you talking about total programming (separates accordion sounds played and/or sequenced) or is there a possibility that programmers, if fake, used entire sampled phrases? It changes everything...
And no, as I said before, I\'m not an accordion specialist but I often wrote music for accordeonists, I had luck to work with great accordéon players.
I really love this instrument, especially in a \"modern\" context or in an orchestra.
There\'s not a lot of \"modern\" accordion lovers here in France, because accordion is too often associated with musette, wich is not a music considered as \"hype\" among pre-senior people. (just half-kidding, it\'s very late here) http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi noenoeil,

All the excerpts feature live (non-sequenced) playing of accordions/accordion sounds and no sampled phrases were used.

You said: \"I often wrote music for accordeonists, I had luck to work with great accordéon players. I really love this instrument, especially in a \"modern\" context or in an orchestra.\" In my view, this makes you more knowledgable on accordions than most people. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

Best regards
Nicholas

nicholash

09-18-2001, 05:56 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bardstown Audio:
Hi Nicholas,

I will have the pianos ready before too long. Things always take longer than what I originally anticipate. When I announce their completion, please contact me at that time about your midi sequences.

Thanks,

Kip
Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Kip,

I\'m looking forward to hearing your new sampled pianos.

Best regards
Nicholas

nicholash

09-18-2001, 06:06 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bardstown Audio:
Hi Nicholas,

The Autumn Leaves is two accordions.....both straight box accordions. The melody is French musette sound with two middle reeds with a thirty point spread in the tuning on a straight box accordion. The comping is being done on a straight box instrument as well.....possibly the same accordion with a single middle reed set. (Clarinet sound)

The second MP3 accordion waltz is a straight box accordion with French musette tuning with three middle reeds sets being used....maximum tuning spread of forty points, with a third set tuned somewhere close in the middle of the other two reed sets.

The third MP3 is another straight box accordion with two middle reed sets tuned Continental musette, with a tuning spread between 15 points to a maximum of 20 points.

The forth MP3 is an \"Art Van Damm\" style tone chamber accordion, using the low bassoon reed sets on the majority of the MP3, but on the tail end, there is a \"bandoneon\" sound with one low bassoon reed set in the tone chamber and a middle reed set outside of the tone chamber being played together in unison. Near the end, there is also a second accordion playing \"fill,\" using a single middle \"clarinet\" reed set.

I believe the fifth MP3 is probably a midi accordion or a Farfisa Syntacordion, with a full master accordion with all reed sets playing.... two fairly dry tuned middle reed sets with a maximum of a five point tuning spread. There is some sort of a light synth sound mixed in with either the acoustic accordion reeds on either a midi accordion or Farfisa Syntacordion. Definitely not a Cordovox.

The accordion musician playing these tunes is a well developed accomplished musician. I would give him or her an A+

Kip
Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

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Hi Kip,

Thank you very much for such a detailed response. You\'re knowledge of accordions far exceeds that of mine and, unfortunately, unless I get a chance to speak with the musicians involved, I won\'t be able to verify any of the fine details that you mention.

IMHO, I agree with you when you say \"The accordion musician playing these tunes is a well developed accomplished musician. I would give him or her an A+\". There is more than one renowned accordion player featured in these excerpts.

Thanks again
Nicholas

nicholash

09-18-2001, 06:11 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Chadwick:
I\'ll guess 3 & 5 as fakes, mainly because they seem to have the least accordion-like articulation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Chadwick,

Thanks very much for your response. I\'ll reveal the answers later today.

Best regards
Nicholas
p.s. BTW, did you see my reply to your response for the \"Listening exercise containing electronic organ\" thread?

nicholash

09-18-2001, 06:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Michiel Post:
Hi Nicolas,
Very nice pieces again, and fun to listen to!
Will you do a piano listening exercise next?
Here is my guess.

no. 1 Sounds very real in my ears, the expression, the dynamics, the articulation...everything is real and the sad/melancholic emotion expressed by the musician is very very well done. I never heard a sampled instrument \'sing\' as this beauty does.

no 2. it seems real to me. Beautifull musette sound.

no 3. electronic. there is no expression, no natural swells, no true articulation. The piece is a little short but it lacks dynamics in my view.

no 4. sounds like a sampled instrument to me. Mainly because the way it\'s played. It is played by a keyboard player not an accordionist. But on the other hand it\'s probably a midi-fied accordion playing its own sound plus several synth sounds.

no 5 sounds absolutely electronic to me. There is no \"life\" accordion sound in this performance. I miss the breathing and the typical intonation: samples!

Kindly
Michiel Post
www.postaudiomedia.com (\"http://www.postaudiomedia.com\")

PS. This reminds me I must make demo files of my Accordion library. Maybe someone who follows this post has a good midi file or other suggestions (Kip?).

[This message has been edited by Michiel Post (edited 09-18-2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Michiel,

Thanks very much for the kind words about this \'listening exercise\'.

I may well follow your suggestion and do a \'piano listening exercise\'. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

BTW, please do make some mp3 demos of your accordions sample library.

Best regards
Nicholas

nicholash

09-18-2001, 06:27 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Michiel Post:

Hi adwick
That is a good idea. Thanks!

By the way, a while ago I got this very usefull tip from Bruce Richardson regarding my accordion samples. He told me to add the needed expression data using a midi wind controller. I tried that and it really works very good. It\'s a little strange in the beginning to have your breath control something that is normally controlled by hand, but after a little getting used to it, this worked fine. First you record the notes in the sequencer then you overdub the expression data.
Michiel<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good ideas here. I find a wind/breath controller can help improve the expressiveness of so many sampled intruments, and is pretty essential for physically modeled intruments.

Nicholas