Purrfect Drums, Sonic Implants

[Dis]

Have Purrfect drums also completely usable kits, or there is only something like this - disc 1 - snares separate sounds, disc 2 - bass drums, disc x - hi hats, etc.? I hate when one must build kits for hours, sound after sound. Are there also on some disc(s) any completed kits (best in GM positions)?
And what about Sonic Implants Drums? Are there kits, and is the quality worse than Purrfect Drums?

[Munsie]

Sonic Implants drums are great, c\'mon, at around $20.00 a kit you can\'t \"beat it\". I just purchased Topaz Studio Kits Volume 1. Jury is still out on that one....

[Sam]

I\'ve just install purrrfect drums so I\'m not an expert on its layout (that will take some time) but it does have kits and they do sound good.

The whole enchilada is too big for a kit, so it\'s laid out in performances across 4 midi ports. It looks there are a bunch of performances that give you different ways of accessing it.

Then there are 7 kits that organize the samples into 1 gigabyte complete kits that are self contained and can be played across a single keyboard, they are chosen to work well for specific styles. There is also a monster GM compatible kit.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stmikkel:
I still don\'t understand, why there hasn\'t been made a single descent snare drum sample, which sounds realistic + many velocity layers. It\'s one of the most basic sounds in a mix, and still it\'s impossible to get a great snare drum sound for my composing.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me ask you, have you ever mic\'ed a drum yourself, and processed the track? That is exactly what you should do with Purrrfect Drums. Don\'t consider the snare sound to be processed for your individual tune, look at it as the same thing you\'d have if you mic\'ed the drumset yourself and recorded it.

Use EQ and compression, and you can make those Purrrfect Drums snares sound like anything you want.

This is a big contrast to most sampled libraries, which attempt to pre-process a drum sound. Unfortunately, that doesn\'t work any better than pre-processing electric guitars. You\'re better off playing a non-effected signal into an amp simulator, and likewise, you\'re better off playing a multi-layered snare into typical post-processing arrays.

[Bardstown Audio]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bruce A. Richardson:
Let me ask you, have you ever mic\'ed a drum yourself, and processed the track? That is exactly what you should do with Purrrfect Drums. Don\'t consider the snare sound to be processed for your individual tune, look at it as the same thing you\'d have if you mic\'ed the drumset yourself and recorded it.

Use EQ and compression, and you can make those Purrrfect Drums snares sound like anything you want.

This is a big contrast to most sampled libraries, which attempt to pre-process a drum sound. Unfortunately, that doesn\'t work any better than pre-processing electric guitars. You\'re better off playing a non-effected signal into an amp simulator, and likewise, you\'re better off playing a multi-layered snare into typical post-processing arrays.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

AMEN!

[donnie]

Heres my two cents on this matter. I\'ve heard the Sonic Implants stuff and I\'m not real crazy about it. Yes it\'s cheap....but....

Yes we are continuing to work on our own set library. The tricky thing with drum set libraries is that there are to many \"experts\" out there that think they know what a drum set should sound like. We will do our best though.

As far as the Purfect drums this seems like a really good option right now. I mean come on...8 discs for $249? Thats a heck of a deal. The selection is fantastic and more thorough than any other set library availible. Seems like the way to go.

Donnie

[stmikkel]

You have to edit your own drum kits with Purrrfect Drums. You have some standard kits, but you will most likely end up making your own. It doesn\'t take long to do it. My set is more than 1.7 gb big.
That\'s pretty wild. I get a feeling that the samples, especially the cymbals, could have been shorted down a bit. I really like the soundquality of these samples though. You can really hear that only top quality gear has been used! This set is definately the best out there so far, although I wouldn\'t call it perfect...

Btw, when will Donnie release his drum libary? I really hope he especially gets the snares and toms right, because I haven\'t found anything yet that sounds top-notch, IMO anyway.

Ok, rant mode ON:
I still don\'t understand, why there hasn\'t been made a single descent snare drum sample, which sounds realistic + many velocity layers. It\'s one of the most basic sounds in a mix, and still it\'s impossible to get a great snare drum sound for my composing.

[stmikkel]

Bruce:

I don\'t doubt the fact, that you know much more about producing music than I do.
But I still think you\'re missing the point.
Bob Clearmountain snare drums (and several other older drum cds) don\'t have enough layers, and no good ghost-velocities.
Purrrrfect Drums (which are a very good package indeed!) are nowhere near a preferable snare drum sound in my book.
They are tuned far to low, and end up lacking punch. Especially for a very dynamic style (think progrock, fusion, funkrock etc..), these snare drums doesn\'t do it for me, by a long shot.
I ended up using one of the 6-7 snare drums, and tuned it up a bit. Then I got something I thought I could at least use temporarily.

So, NO, I\'m still not happy with the snare drum samples out there.
I\'m sure you can do a lot with effects, processing etc., but I\'m talking about the sound of the sampled snare drum + realism.

I\'m starting to repeat myself (although it\'s obviously necessary), but I\'m crossing my fingers for Donnie getting it right. He\'s pretty much the only hope for us getting a decent snare (and also some really good toms with lots of punch, dynamics and velocity layers).

PS: I don\'t like to critize sample cds like this in public forums. I think I\'ve made it very clear though, that Purrfect Drums IS the best drum sample package out there right now, but there are still things that could have been done better. I just want to point out those things. I\'m very grateful for that sample cd developers read this forum on a regular basis, I only hope this wish is getting through... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif
(Donnie...?)

[Kenn159]

Can anyone recommend a demo for purrfect drums .
I found a blues demo called big/little head but they dont display variations in the drums enough.
Not a very good demo.

[KingIdiot]

Agreed, on the demo.

Its a great song,..but it really doesn\'t show what might be capable with the library. I actually hate the sound of the snare and it really doesn\'t show off the dynamics that everyone has been raving about. As well the drums sound obviously sampled IMHO.

How many different vareties of sounds/kits are there?

I know there are gigs of samples... but actual different sanres and STYLES of kits?

Real Giga drums bothers me in the fact that the kits aren\'t that much different. Which is why I\'m still searching for otehr libraries

Pure Drums is sut too controlled sounding but there are ALOT of variations of kit sounds. I\'d be ok with this set if I had more control over the sounds. I may create some effected samples to layer on top and use in effect like RGD,...but It\'ll take alot of filtering on the kick to get a good room/over sound out of it.. I like to hear some \"air\" sometimes...




------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[Bryan]

Can anyone tell me if the \"Perrfect\" samples are 24 bit?... or what?
regards
bryan

[nicholash]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bryan:
Can anyone tell me if the \"Perrfect\" samples are 24 bit?... or what?
regards
bryan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Bryan,

Out of curiosity, why does it matter to you whether or not the samples are 24 bit?

I hope Chadwick doesn\'t mind me quoting him from another thread: \"There are still samples developed for an old Emulator II which I love to hear. Not because of the pristine 12 bit quality (!) but because the actual personality of the samples shines through the mud.

I\'m sure there are 24 bit samples which have only been released recently which are crap because, at some level, the rest of the recording process was flawed: recording space, , mic\'ing, converters, instrument choice, performance, choice of articulations, sample editing, sampler programming etc.,\"

(My opinion is similar to Chadwick\'s and he expressed it well, so that\'s why I just quoted him).

By the way, I\'m not trying to have a go at you; just interested, that\'s all.

Best regards
Nicholas

[Magpel]

Re: the sonic implants kits, I can see how someone like Donnie who is so intimately involved in high-end sample maikng would not be crazy about them: there can be a real deadness to them, specifically a lack of \"crack\" in the snares that, no matter how I have approached EQing, I can\'t remedy. The crack just ain\'t in there.

That said, there are some realy strong points to these kits too, apart from the extraordinary price. They\'re very playable, another league from the standard drum fare on keyboards. I think the velocity layering is extremely well done--they can really fool your drumming fingers into believing in the reality of stick and skin (the snare that comes with GS was the first sample to really blow me away on this front).
My only other viable drum sample option at the moment is the kit that comes with the Acoustic Essentials CD, which is also good, but *really* suffers from the lack of meaty snares.

[nicholash]

Hi,

The master samples for my Veridical Sounds \'One Old Upright\' sampled piano are 88.2 kHz 24 bit ones done with the Apogee PSX-100. They were converted to 44.1 kHz, and to 16 bits with Apogee\'s UV22 facility applied. To my ears, I can\'t remember noticing any significant difference in the sound quality. Small changes in the positioning of the microphones used to record the piano made much more significant differences to the sound.

Nicholas

[EternalBlue]

I may be completely oblivious today, but does the Purfect Drums lib have a site somewhere? I can\'t seem to find any info on it...

Thanks,

[nicholash]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EternalBlue:
I may be completely oblivious today, but does the Purfect Drums lib have a site somewhere? I can\'t seem to find any info on it...

Thanks,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Try: http://www.studiocat.com/ (\"http://www.studiocat.com/\")

Nicholas

[donnie]

Magpel,

Very well put. I totally agree with you by the way that for the price they are a good deal but I still think that the Purrfect drums even though they are more expensive is still an even better deal.

A word about 24 bit....

We record in 24bit and then dither to 16bit with UV22. I don\'t think it\'s pratical in large libraries to keep everything in 24 bit. Libraries would be just too big. Maybe the day will come soon when it\'s practical but right now it\'s now unfortunately.


Donnie

[NAZARU]

Donnie,
Who sells UV22 Dithering? Isn\'t that Apogee
technology? Peace.

[donnie]

Yes it\'s Apogee technology but it is built into several of their products such as the AD8000, PSX 100, and Rosettas. It is also availible as software in master tools and is now even in Cubase 5.0!

Donnie

[leadbelly]

I recently obtained the Purrrfect drums collection on the recommendation of a close friend. I am thoroughly impressed with this set of samples. I find them extremely well recorded, expressive and flexible. I agree that the snares are tuned a little low for my tastes, and more variations of these could have been provided. But they are quite punchy and can be processed quite easily. The sheer volume of samples is incredible and it really taxes my humble 2-year old giga system (PII 450 mhz, 8gb dedicated giga drive, 128mB RAM). But if this is any indication of things to come, sample libraries are going to get bigger and (hopefully) better!!


Peace,

David Lawrence
Cincinnati, Ohio

[Bruce A. Richardson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by leadbelly:
I agree that the snares are tuned a little low for my tastes, and more variations of these could have been provided. But they are quite punchy and can be processed quite easily

Peace,

David Lawrence
Cincinnati, Ohio<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, this point is often overlooked about the snares--people tend to have a gut-response, and don\'t dig deeper. This library would be a value at twice the price. There is nothing close, and it\'s not going to devalue. It will always be the ultimate sample set of that particular set of instruments.

By the way, to whoever was asking, Jim is a total stickler for detail. I believe the master files are actually recorded in native 32-bit float. Non issue. The converters used are top-quality, and the analog gear and mics are all top-shelf choices.

But for the record, in 90% of cases, this \"24-bit\" mania is naive. Compared to larger issues like mic choice, instrument choice, the room, the analog signal path, tuning, etc., getting focused on bit depth is tantamount to picking pepper out of gnat poop. It just doesn\'t make enough difference to justify positioning on the radar--ESPECIALLY in relationship with the amount of streaming overhead this would add if one were talking about bumping up the GIG filespec.

I\'m sure it will be done, and that it will make a genuine difference on libraries which have extreme dynamic range. In particular, pianissimo recorded samples would benefit, and it would probably change the way many folks record and map their libraries. In the final mix, though, I am not convinced that the differences are nearly as critical as the continuing exploration and improvement of sampling techniques as applied to Giga\'s unique instrument spec. There\'s still a LOT of unexplored territory before the new 2.3 spec really bears fruit.

But for drumset samples? That\'s about at the bottom of the list. It would bear minimal fruit, because drumsets are just not that quiet, even at pianissimo. There\'s plenty of range to represent the sound well at a 16-bit depth. The brand of mic cables probably has a larger influence on the final sound...

MIXING (when rendering your files to disk) at 24-bit, on the other hand, is a completely different issue, and yields better results whether you\'re using 16-bit samples or 24-bit samples.

I hope this illustrates a few issues. I think there\'s a lot of confusion, fueled no small amount by marketing devils who would have you believe your pockets are past due for emptying.

[leadbelly]

This question is for Bruce:

I am primarily a keyboardist, but I want to explore getting the full potential of the multiple velocities of Purrrfect drums. What controller would you recommend, and how would you suggest setting it up to emulate a live drummer?

Thanks,

David Lawrence,
Cincinnati, Ohio.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by leadbelly:
This question is for Bruce:

I am primarily a keyboardist, but I want to explore getting the full potential of the multiple velocities of Purrrfect drums. What controller would you recommend, and how would you suggest setting it up to emulate a live drummer?

Thanks,

David Lawrence,
Cincinnati, Ohio.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Any of the Roland kits will do it, V-drums or the TD-7 based kits. If you\'re not a drummer, it may not be the kind of cash you\'d want to spend. You could somewhat pull it off with a DrumKAT or similar, but you\'d lose the rimshot emulation, bell ping, hi-hat variants, etc.

You can program all of that in without any sort of specialized controller, but it\'s a good bit of work. Then again, if you\'re not a proficient drummer, you may not get a lot of benefit from the pad sets.

It\'s hard for me to make an absolute recommendation, but that\'s the basic gist of it.

I sometimes play a \"drum solo\" in live sets with my wind controller. Ironically, you can do a lot with it, and it\'s pretty funny onstage.

[Sapkiller]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bruce A. Richardson:
Any of the Roland kits will do it, V-drums or the TD-7 based kits. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Bruce
Speaking of V-Drums I wondered if you could help me out:
If I buy a couple of V-Pads - will I have to
buy one of the drummodules as well?
It seems so, since there\'s is no direct midi
from the pads itself - but is there a dedicated miditrigger box without the soundmodules?

thanks
Bjk

[Bruce A. Richardson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sapkiller:
Hi Bruce
Speaking of V-Drums I wondered if you could help me out:
If I buy a couple of V-Pads - will I have to
buy one of the drummodules as well?
It seems so, since there\'s is no direct midi
from the pads itself - but is there a dedicated miditrigger box without the soundmodules?

thanks
Bjk<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yes, you will have to buy one of the modules. If you\'re not planning to use a full set, you can get one of the cheaper ones, as long as it accepts the dual zone pad input, which is fed out through a stereo 1/4\" phone plug. I got the \"last generation\" set, with a TD-7 and the dual zone black-rubber pads. It\'s a lot cheaper, and works pretty well. The only bad thing about it is that they sound of sticks hitting the pads is really pretty annoying. At \"gig level\" you usually don\'t hear it, but playing in intimate/small live settings you do.

In the studio, it\'s pretty much a wash, though. The rubber pads aren\'t quite as sophisticated as the V-drum pads, but they\'ll still give you the sweet spot/rim shot mapping which is killer for snares and multi-zone cymbals.

If you use a hi-hat pedal, you can map five different notes to a single hi-hat pad, including the \"stomp,\" which gives a lot of expression.

[fernando]

My homemade solution for handdrumming:

- an unexpensive drum module ( I have an alesis D4 for under 200$)
- 8 piezo transducers ( 1$ each )
- 1 camping foam mat.
- a 16-wire pipe.
- 10 jacks for connecting.
- glue


I just cut the mat in some equal squares, making like a foam and glue lasagna, and cutting on the top some circles at the distance between my fingertips, put the transducers on that holes, connected to the 16 wire pipe. the rest is configuring and adjusting crosstalk between pads. Another pad for the bassdrum an the feet, and a sustain pedal for hihat changing. Of course there is no dual zones, no progressive hihat, but it´s really fun to play good sample libraries just with your fingers from a such basic engine, and perhaps is the most intuitive way to play for a non-drummer ( just like tapping on a table ).