lets make wind

[fmfgs]

After reading many remarks about wind controllers in this forum I feel like contributing my 2 cents and share my experience.
About two months ago i bought a Yamaha - WX5 Wind Controler and VL70m Physical Modelling Synth Set for about 850 US$ from a german mailorder dealer. To give you the conclusion first: I only regret not having done this a couple of years earlier.
After some frustrating days trying to figure out the fingering and ignoring the blisters on my lips i finally came to the conclusion, that for me a wind controller is the only midi device suitable to play wind instruments. I played wind instruments on the keyboard for years, and in terms of pitchbend and modulation the result was not to bad. The big difference is the control of amplitude. For me two wheels and a foot control next to the actual playing is just a bit to much, and i hate the tedious task of manually edit controller data...
The most interesting thing playing with wind controller versus keyboard is the fact, that amplitude and expression control is completely natural and automatic (i still have some problems with the pitch wheel...). The second thing is that my wind lines in composing start to become different ( i think this is because i start to feel the nature or personality of wind instruments much better.)

To give you an idea of what happens if you blow into a wx5, you can check out this midi file: http://www.ccshop.ch/fmf/wind3.mid (\"http://www.ccshop.ch/fmf/wind3.mid\")
Look at breath and expression controller data.
or you can listen to the mp3 in: http://www.ccshop.ch/fmf/wind3.mp3 (\"http://www.ccshop.ch/fmf/wind3.mp3\")
What you hear is just a unedited cutout of 2 minutes where i play live on top of a simple string loop. This is not intended to be a final composition, i just like playing more then practicing...
What would be interesting to hear is what comes out if You play the midi file with your samples (I guess you have to convert the breath controller data to Volume control?).
fmfgs

[paynterr]

Hi there,
I\'ve always been interested in wind controllers, but was never sure whether they really work with samples or whether they are more suited to synths... what has been you experience... ahve you actually tried using - say - the DD woodwinds?

[fmfgs]

hi paynterr
that\'s why I supply the midi file - to challenge the owners of different wind libraries to post a reply with there results.
My own experience is very frustrating. The libraries i have do not really support wind controllers and I hope to find people who made patches or articulation files. On the other hand the bundle I bought was less expensive then the famous string library i\'m still waiting for... So if i cant find expressive samples I will go into physical modelling.
So guys - what library gives the best results with wind controllers?
Thank you for your input!
fmfgs

[nicholash]

My current music equipment setup consists of nearly all samplers (lots of them!). The only non-sampler gear that is regularly patched into the mixer is the Yamaha VL1-m and VL70-m (that are both used with a breath controller). There is a reason for this, which is that I usually find the physical modelling synths give me significantly more expressive results for wind instruments than sampled instruments when used in conjunction with the breath controller.

Having said that, however, I still use plenty of sampled woodwind & brass (and I have bought most of the available sampled woodwind/brass libraries).

Nicholas

[Simon Ravn]

I will be getting a VL70-m tomorrow! Have always liked breath controlling, but since I have a Roland main keyboard, I couldn\'t use it. Will see how this turns out and if it will be good to program LFO\'s controlled by breath controller into some sampled woodwinds and brass.

[fmfgs]

To OH: Who is GC and do you have an idea how the physical modelling part of the oasys compares to the yamaha VL family?
To Nicholas: Which of your sample libraries responds best to wind controllers?
To Simon: FDA Warning: VL70 with WX5 is highly addictive and you might want to quit smoking http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/rolleyes.gif
thank you all for your input
fmfgs

[Simon Ravn]

I don\'t want one of those WIND controllers that looks like a small clarinet or something - at least not yet, I might change my mind. I know the 2nd hand unit I will buy comes with \'breath controller\' (mouthpiece).
It seems like the WX5/7 records more than just how much you blow, though? So it will add even more expression compared to a breath controller?

Also I read that you can record and playback the breath data from your sequencer, without some switching of MIDI signals (hardware wise)...? I read it at this link: http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/jan98/articles/vl70m.htm (\"http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/jan98/articles/vl70m.htm\")

Sounds stupid to me, so what is the solution - a switch? No workaround that doesnt require that you remember to switch each time you record/play back ...?


[This message has been edited by Simon Ravn (edited 09-08-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Simon Ravn (edited 09-08-2001).]

[fmfgs]

Hi Simon
There are two inputs on the VL70m: one called breath and the other called wx in. I never used the breath input because it only acts like a Volume Pedal, so you still have to play Keyboard with pitch and modwheel. The wind track of my demofile was played live only with the wx5 controller. There was something weird though - when i play back the sequence with cubase, it sounds different whether the wx5 is connected or not.
If I may suggest something: try to get a \"real\" wind controller somewhere. I am sure you will get much more out of your new soundmodule.
fmfgs

[Simon Ravn]

Yes but don\'t you have to know how to play a flute or another wind instrument? Does it work with holes, buttons, valves or how does it work? Looks difficult to me... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Breath control doesnt act like volume - you use it for the MIDI controller called \'breath controller\' which can be assigned to whatever you like, e.g. opening up a filter, adding vibrato or whatever. I know a wind controller will give you even more control - although I cant figure out how it can respond to anything but how much you blow, like a breath controller... I read it records \'lip pressure\' too amongst other things. So what is lip pressure normally controlled to express? volume?

[OH]

>To OH: Who is GC and do you have an idea how the physical modelling part of the oasys compares to the yamaha VL family?<

Hi fmfgs!

GC is Guitar Centre which are the only ones allowed to sell the Oasys in the US currently. Regarding the comparison to the VL: Most important is that the Oasys is polyphonic. 12 & more voices depending on patch. Organs with 64 voices I believe. Organs and alike are brilliant. The Nylon-guitars superb (untweaked already great) as well as the bass and some quite nice (wonderful) flute-sounds. The advantage with the VL is that there are already a lot of professionally tweaked patches available, but there are already some clever guys working on more stuff for the Oasys. PM drums (a cymbal is already available etc.). And $500 definitely IS a bargain. And it gives you the Triton Samples even of the first three Expansion boards etc. etc. etc.

regards

------------------
O.H.

[nicholash]

Hi,

Here are some links to useful resources for the Yamaha VL synths:

Wind Synth/Controller discussion forum archives: http://lists.mun.ca/archives/wind.html (\"http://lists.mun.ca/archives/wind.html\")

Matt Black\'s excellent patches for the VL series: http://members.aol.com/Patchman1/yamahaVL70m.html (\"http://members.aol.com/Patchman1/yamahaVL70m.html\") and http://members.aol.com/Patchman1/yamahaVL1.html (\"http://members.aol.com/Patchman1/yamahaVL1.html\")

VL1 and VL1-m Patch Archive: http://www.kbspace.com/vl1m/patches/ (\"http://www.kbspace.com/vl1m/patches/\")

International Wind Synthesis Association (IWSA) links to patches: http://windsynth.org/iwsa_labs/patch_programming/patch_links.shtml (\"http://windsynth.org/iwsa_labs/patch_programming/patch_links.shtml\")

IWSA patch archive: http://windsynth.org/iwsa_labs/patch_programming/patch_archive/ (\"http://windsynth.org/iwsa_labs/patch_programming/patch_archive/\") or ftp://windsynth.org/patch_archive/

IWSA patch editors page: http://windsynth.org/iwsa_labs/patch_programming/patch_editors.shtml (\"http://windsynth.org/iwsa_labs/patch_programming/patch_editors.shtml\")

Best regards
Nicholas
p.s.
Hi fmfgs, in answer to your question \"Which of your sample libraries responds best to wind controllers?\", I\'m afraid I haven\'t tried using the breath controller on many of the sampled winds since the physical modeling synths work so well with it. BTW, I personally prefer the wind emulations of the Yamaha VL series to the Korg modeling synths (Prophecy, Z1 and OASYS).

Hi Simon, please try Bill Busch\'s and Matt Black\'s VL patches if you want quality wind sounds.

[fmfgs]

Simon: currage man http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/cool.gif I started playing wind controller two months ago and my wind lines are already better then on the keyboard (ok, only on slooow lines). Its really worth the effort and a lot of fun. I admit that I am cheating a bit - I use the lip pressure for modulation and not pitch control like the real wind players do. But luckily the wx5 has a small pitch bend wheel under the left thumb... So what you get out of a wx5 is Note Data and three continous controllers: breath, Lip Pressure and a small wheel with center position (not easy to operate while you play). Of coarse you can transform these controller data to what ever you want. And last: we talk about a controller here - it is very far from learning a real wind instrument. It\'s easy http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif
fmfgs

[Simon Ravn]

Nicolash, thanks a lot for those links! I already heard the mp3\'s, and they are the ones that convinced me to buy the VL70! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

About wind controllers - OK not as hard as real instruments, so I guess if I get hooked on this I might buy one some day. They\'re just a bit expensive http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[Aenigma]

FMFGS:

I\'ve taken your MIDI file and made an MP3 of the Xsample Oboe for you to compare.

I had to edit the .gig file to respond to volume from the breath controller CC#2, and make sure that pitch bend was set. (If someone does this with other oboe samples, you\'ll have to do this as well I suspect.) I too would be curious to hear others.

Would someone be able to host this file? I don\'t have any room to put it up.

[Simon Ravn]

Responding to volume only isnt the best way to go is it? When I get the breath controller I will experiment with attaching it to a low pass filter - I think this could work very well, especially on clarinets.

[nicholash]

Hi Simon,

You say that: \"Responding to volume only isnt the best way to go is it?\".

I agree with you here. In fact, for an example of how controlling volume alone is not sufficient, listen to my short Yamaha SW1000XG strings demo which used a breath controller only for volume! An mp3 of the piece and the associated midi file are included in the file: http://www.btinternet.com/~veridical.sounds/breathcontrol1.zip (\"http://www.btinternet.com/~veridical.sounds/breathcontrol1.zip\")

(Please don\'t respond with too much criticism as it was done in a hurry http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif . I\'ll only keep it on my site for a short while because I\'m running out of web space for other things.)

For better results, it is preferable to control a filter along with the volume if you want breath control to sound decent.

Best regards
Nicholas

[fmfgs]

To Aenigma
since I asked for it, you can use my server by using this link: http://www.ccshop.ch/fmf/upsept.asp (\"http://www.ccshop.ch/fmf/upsept.asp\")
after you can link to this file with http://www.ccshop.ch/fmf/yourfilename.mp3 (\"http://www.ccshop.ch/fmf/yourfilename.mp3\")
Thank you all guys - this is the closest thing to a chatroom i ever found on a forum...
fmfgs

[Simon Ravn]

Well on strings it probably works OK with volume - but then again, with Garritan Orchestral Strings I would definitely assign it to modulation, as this is where you control the expression. Will be interesting to see how that works http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[killerbobjr]

Hey fmfgs,
I tried your midifile with my DDSW oboe. I had to modify the patch to support the breath and modulation controllers and also change the velocity response curve so your file would play right. I also had to scale your velocities up 24 so that the ff layer would play. I put it all together with a string pad and reverb to try and match your original MP3. This is the result: http://members.home.net/killerbobjr1/Wind3a.mp3 (\"http://members.home.net/killerbobjr1/Wind3a.mp3\")

Just as an experiment, I wiped all your controller data and regenerated new controller info with my NTONYX midi plugin. The only thing I added from your original was that pitchbend dip. All other pitchbend data was generated by the plugin. This is the result: http://members.home.net/killerbobjr1/Wind3b.mp3 (\"http://members.home.net/killerbobjr1/Wind3b.mp3\") and here\'s the midifile: http://members.home.net/killerbobjr1/Wind3a.mid (\"http://members.home.net/killerbobjr1/Wind3a.mid\")

In my opinion, neither of these results are as expressive as your original MP3, although I think the plugin version works better on the DDSW oboe than your controller data version. I think this show that you can\'t really transfer from one performance on a particular module/synth/sampler to another. You really would have to play in realtime on the DDSW to get maximum expression out of it.

[Aenigma]

I was unable to upload the file -- it kept timing out. Guess it doesn\'t like my slow connection.

I now agree with what\'s been said about about volume not being enough, even though the CC#2 has a range of about 0-90, it\'s barely noticable.

If adding lowpass filter to this is easy, I will try it. But I don\'t think I know how to do this. Anyone want to give me instructions? In the meantime I\'ll try to figure it out myself.

[OH]

>So if i cant find expressive samples I will go into physical modelling.<

If you really consider doing this get one of the seemingly last Korg Oasys PCI cards at GC. Just $500 (original: $2200)

regards



------------------
O.H.

[paynterr]

I\'d certainly be interested in hearing this midi file rendered by a suitable woodwin lib... be interesting to see if the wind controller can effectively control the sample sounds... especially Dan Dean which I have just ordered http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif I wonder if the sample libraries contain the required squeaks and ear-piercing horrors that real woodwinds can produce when played badly... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[fmfgs]

To Aenigma: Your file arrived on my server anyhow http://www.ccshop.ch/fmf/wind3_xsample.mp3 (\"http://www.ccshop.ch/fmf/wind3_xsample.mp3\")
fmfgs

[dnortana]

Simon,

Like you, I have not had a WX5 or similar, though I recently started using a breath controller, which was an improvement over the mod wheel, or similar, for expression. Incidentally, the breath controller works beautifully for modulation with GOS!

In completing a recent orchestral, production piece, I just had the fortunate experience of shipping my Digital Performer project files to a audio post production expert for mastering. During the course of his \'tidying up\' my mix, he also replaced my rather poor sounding woodwinds (I don\'t yet have a good sample library for woodwinds)with his own, and he performed them using a WX-5/vl70.
The difference is sound, expression and nuance was like being hit by lightning. I bought a WX5/vl70 yesterday as a result of this experience, and though my saxophone chops never were great (and I\'m a little rusty to boot), I am very positively surprised by the difference it makes, even in my humble, rusty hands (or mouth http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif
Someone else on this forum mentioned somewhere that they wish they had taken this step sooner. I\'ll second that. There\'s a powerful world of expressiveness and realism available to us that simply can\'t be entered through the keyboard. Just take it on faith, Simon, you simply cannot afford to not buy a WX5 and learn to play it.
Plus, if you\'re into non-orchestral music at all, you can get some amazing, creative, hugely expressive sounds out of a WX5 when hooked up to a powerful synth/modelling unit like, say, the KORG Oasys card. That\'s yet another brave new world. I had my first taste of it last night with my WX5 at a friend\'s house - WOW - and expect it will lead me into a whole new musical dimension.
As someone mentioned above, this darned WX5 is going to be a pretty powerful addiction. You simply cannot stop with the first hit http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif
Trond

[This message has been edited by dnortana (edited 09-09-2001).]

[Bruce A. Richardson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Simon Ravn:
Yes but don\'t you have to know how to play a flute or another wind instrument? Does it work with holes, buttons, valves or how does it work? Looks difficult to me... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It\'s not as difficult as you might think. After all, 12-year olds learn to play flutes and saxes all the time (that\'s the fingering emulation you\'ll get in WX5).

I am a trumpet player, and while I considered an EVI for a while, ultimately I thought the WX5 would be easier to learn and play. While I cannot play super fast lines, it almost doesn\'t matter. There are many tricks. You can \"finger\" a note outside the range of the instrument you\'re controlling, and play lines in on your keyboard.

There are challenges as well. For instance, say you\'ve sequenced a part you played with your breath controller, and you want to edit the placement of a few notes or even quantize. This is a huge issue, because the NOTES move but the CC2 information DOES NOT!!

Sequencer manufacturers could introduce logic to help this, but Wind Controller users are a niche within a niche market already. Nobody wants to spend the development $$ to bring out a feature that 100 people worldwide use with regularity.

Finally, with regards to using wind controllers with samplers, it is a mixed success. If a library is designed where the samples are essentially normalized, and the dynamic range is built into the .art file, then these are easily and successfully used. If the library is recorded at actual dynamic levels with no artificial attenuation in the .art, then in essence, a Wind Controller gives you a double attenuated performance which is unacceptable.

Yet even another issue exists--even if the library IS based on a normalized/attenuation mapped sample set, you will have the phenomenon of being able to \"crescendo\" a soft sample to forte volume. This gives an unrealistic result because the timbre is too warm.

Nemesys could help with this, by making LOTS of filtering options available to CC2. High pass filtering for soft samples, so you can crescendo them and remove warmth as they get louder would be very helpful. Currently, of course, you can design an instrument with low-pass filtering which helps make a bright sample darker as the volume decreases.

Even with significant challenges (and some libraries where the wind controller just doesn\'t work well), I look at my investment in the WX5 as a good one. It\'s enjoyable, I love playing it live, and I simply learn to appreciate it for what it adds and wait for better support.

PS...I have BC2 and BC3 controllers for a couple of KX5 controllers (strap on) which I used live for sevaral years. I still use the controllers now and then for programming, but the BC series controller logic is really faulty, and the results are not that impressive. If the MIDI note is not being generated as a result of the air attack (as in the WX5 but not the BC2-3) you don\'t get the realistic effect.

Hope that helps prospective buyers understand a few of the issues. Wind controllers are not a panacea, yet they do provide some results you must work very hard to get without them. Ultimately, the breath is our most expressive \"instrument\" from birth, so it\'s only logical that finding ways to harness it into our controllers is a valid pursuit.

Bruce

[MM]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bruce A. Richardson:
There are challenges as well. For instance, say you\'ve sequenced a part you played with your breath controller, and you want to edit the placement of a few notes or even quantize. This is a huge issue, because the NOTES move but the CC2 information DOES NOT!!
_____________________________________________
This problem and the huge amount of controller data I was generating clogging the MIDI stream are reasons I very seldomly use sequencing any more (well...the temptation to over quantize is another...).

Instead, I record directly into my DAW and use it\'s editing capabilities for similar functionality.
__________________________________________
Bruce said:

PS...I have BC2 and BC3 controllers for a couple of KX5 controllers (strap on) which I used live for sevaral years. I still use the controllers now and then for programming, but the BC series controller logic is really faulty, and the results are not that impressive. If the MIDI note is not being generated as a result of the air attack (as in the WX5 but not the BC2-3) you don\'t get the realistic effect.
____________________________________________
While breath controlled triggering is certainly easier, it is quite possible to use BC3 and a keyboard for realistic triggering...this does require some programing at the synth/sampler to replace the keyboard driven envelopes, but having worked this way (for close to 20 years!)I believe it to be a workable alternative.

Yet, I may crossover to a WX-5 myself.

Regards,

MM

[Simon Ravn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dnortana:
Simon,

Like you, I have not had a WX5 or similar, though I recently started using a breath controller, which was an improvement over the mod wheel, or similar, for expression. Incidentally, the breath controller works beautifully for modulation with GOS!

[This message has been edited by dnortana (edited 09-09-2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Trond I must admit it sounds and acts amazing this VL70 - I just wish they had done proper MIDI implementation! As it is now, you can\'t both record your data and play it back without plugin in and out cables, pulling your breath controller etc - SIMPLY stupid engineering!!! Is there a way around this? Maybe buying a breath to MIDI converter and plugging in the breath somewhere else in your MIDI equipment instead? Because this is really horrible, that you can only use it for live playing...

[Simon Ravn]

I am getting more interested in this wind business - also the synthesis behind VL-synths. My question is - seing that VL70 and VL1 are from 1997 or so, one would think there\'d been a huge leap forward since then, creating even more realistic sounds - or has time stood still in this department?

[dnortana]

Simon,
The BC3 can be accepted by a number of devices, some of which can transmit its cc#2 data further through your system - I play my BC3 through the breath controller inputs on my Kurzweil K2500XS, my master keyboard, and route the signal through my MIDI network, and to my sequencer, if I wish to record it. It is in this fashion that I used the BC3 with the GOS strings. I found this quite convenient and straight forward, actually, and I think this is what you were suggesting as a possibility in your post?

Sorry, I didn\'t understand your question about plugging and unplugging to record. Did my first comment take care of your question?

I just went to the Yamaha site to check out the detailed specs on the VL70, and found the page missing. Interesting ......
Regards,
Trond

[fmfgs]

Bruce - Thank you very much for your trick to play fast lines. Even if we are a small group of wind controller users, we are in good company of all the other musicians who want to get more expression out of those machines and a more straightforward control then wheels. What I read about GOS played with Wind controller makes me hope that future libraries will allow better control of expression.

Simon - Does switching from voice to xg mode on the front panel help for your midi problem? (In xg mode, midi note data received via the midi in connector is not re-transmitted via the midi out connector).

Anybody know how to order that korg card for 500$? (we don\'t have guitar centers in europe...)
fmfgs

[OH]

>I just went to the Yamaha site to check out the detailed specs on the VL70, and found the page missing. Interesting ......<

Yes. There are rumours that it is discontinued!



------------------
O.H.

[OH]

>Anybody know how to order that korg card for 500$? (we don\'t have guitar centers in europe...)
fmfgs[/B][/QUOTE]<

Go the the official Oasys page at yahoogroups. there are some GC guys and they might be of help. But consider shipping and TAX/VAT. You can get it from Germany for 1870 DM or something (about $850).



------------------
O.H.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jazzman1222:
[B]I haven\'t seen anything mentioned about Neil Steiners New EVI controller. B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For the record, I mentioned it, I just don\'t own it. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/tongue.gif

Were you able to easily master the left hand portion that regulates where you are on the overtone series? I\'m curious how long it would take a trumpet player to master it. I may well look into it depending on what the learning curve is to be fast on it. I can certainly play a lot faster lines on trumpet than on my WX5!!

[TJ]

I bought an SW1000XG soundcard to use with Sibelius and I\'ve got the VL-70m plug-in as well. Its midi implementation is obviously spot on compared to the stand-alone sound module.

The best combination of samples and modelling that I\'ve yet come across is from using an OASYS soundcard with a Trinity V3 with samples loaded in and a Yamaha SY99 as a controller keyboard. Once it is set-up its awesome in terms of expression with a BC-3 controller. Physical Modelling is definitely the future for producing the most authentic
instruments, even if its in its infancy now.

[dnortana]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OH:

>I just went to the Yamaha site to check out the detailed specs on the VL70, and found the page missing. Interesting ......<

Yes. There are rumours that it is discontinued!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

O.H.-
Uh oh .... I just bought a VL70 from the local Sam Ash, it is supposed to arrive in a couple of weeks.

If there are rumors of it being discontinued, are there also rumors of an updated replacement module???

I\'d hate to find myself in the situation of just having bought the unit, only to find out that a month later a superior module arrives on the shelves.

On the other hand, maybe it\'s being discontinued, period. In which case it\'s a great investment .....

Anybody got reliable tea leaves?
Trond

[fmfgs]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Trond:
Anybody got reliable tea leaves?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I work on coffee and when I looked into my cup I did see the marketing manager of the PM and GM departments in a teahouse. The GM-guy said: You are selling this physical modelling stuff since 4 years now and I admit that your stuff sounds much better then my sample sounds. As your friend I will tell you, why I got my promotion and you got fired: my customers come back every year and buy new modules, because they want new sounds. Your customers buy your device once and just get some software somewhere to have new sounds. That\'s not only bad business, its even .... At this point, the geisha entered the room and I got distracted from their conversation. When I looked back in my coffee cup, all I could see was black...

[Simon Ravn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fmfgs:
Simon - Does switching from voice to xg mode on the front panel help for your midi problem? (In xg mode, midi note data received via the midi in connector is not re-transmitted via the midi out connector).
fmfgs<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope that didn\'t help. Same thing, the synth freezes up etc. The problem is mentioned on Sound on Sound, and it seems buying a breath to MIDI converter will be the best solution, since I can then plug that directly into my MIDI interface and pull the plug on the MIDI out of the VL70 completely.

[jazzman1222]

I haven\'t seen anything mentioned about Neil Steiners New EVI controller. I rocks! The breath sensativity is amazing, and you don\'t need to buy the VLM module, It plugs right to your Sampler/Module. It gives the most musical results of any breath controller I\'ve tried. The price is $850. Neil builds these by hand. Patchman music had a webpage with a detailed description and photos of the new EVI. Check it out!

[jazzman1222]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bruce A. Richardson:
[B] For the record, I mentioned it, I just don\'t own it. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/tongue.gif

Were you able to easily master the left hand portion that regulates where you are on the overtone series? I\'m curious how long it would take a trumpet player to master it. I may well look into it depending on what the learning curve is to be fast on it. I can certainly play a lot faster lines on trumpet than on my WX5!!

Bruce,
I was fortunate to have the assistance of Sam Zambito, one of the true guru\'s of the EVI. It took me about 2 months to really get a good handle on the controller. I just put myself on a basic routine: Arban, St. Jacombe, Shlossberg, etc. The canister is actually very easy to use once you use it for a short while. 1 finger on the canister; the pitch changes a Fourth. Plus simply rolling your thumb over the rollers gives you 7 Octaves. From my conversations with Yamaha owners/players, the EVI is a much more simple set up. Plus the fact that you don\'t need the module, as in the earlier Akai model. But it\'s the Breath sensitivity that is amazing in the new model.

[OH]

Hi Trond!

>I\'d hate to find myself in the situation of just having bought the unit, only to find out that a month later a superior module arrives on the shelves.<

This happened to me with Roland\'s VG 8/88. But until today people argue which is better. Always remember: Most of the times new models don\'T give you all the old model gave you. I think it still is a good investment... but my tea leaves are just rumours from the windsynth group... sorry.

------------------
O.H.

[Simon Ravn]

I have to find some solution to make use of the VL70m in a MIDI setup. So I am thinking of getting a breath to MIDI converter, although this will cost me more than the VL70m did! But I need to make sure it will work. So can anyone tell me, if I connect my breathcontroller to my MIDI interface directly, so it goes INTO the VL70m from there, will the VL70m accept this breath data just as well as if I plugged it directly into the VL70m?

[Simon Ravn]

Argh I cant get the VL70 to store patches right. I send over a patch from Expert Editor, it sounds fine, I store it, but when I return to hear it, it sounds like some default screwed up patch which pitchbends downwards - sounds the same no matter which patch I store!