ASCAP vs BMI

[wrayer]

I am looking to join either ASCAP or BMI. I have never been a member of these organizations and would like your opinion as to their worth. If this is the wrong 'forum' to ask this question, please forgive me and point me towards the person(s) that can give me this information.

Is there one of these two organizations that is better than the other? I know ASCAP charges $35 for membership and BMI is free. If joining BMI, you are precluded from joining another such organization for 2 years. So before I make a choice, I wanted to check with those of you who may already be members of these groups.

This is information that probably is important for us to discuss and I am sure that those of you who are members would like to share your experiences.

I wish all of you a wonderful Thanksgiving.

Best Regards,
Bill

[qccowboy]

Do you get performances of your music in halls that pay performing rights?
I think that this is the important question when deciding whether or not to adhere to a performing rights organization.

I belong to SOCAN, more or less the Canadian equivalent of both BMI and ASCAP (at one point in the past, they WERE more closely linked... sharing a name, if I recall correctly).

However, I can tell you that in 25 years of getting my music performed, I have gotten exactly one (1) royalty cheque.

Unless the performance was in a hall that pays performing rights licenses, you won't see any money.

And to the best of my knowledge, neither BMI nor ASCAP "protect" your work in any manner. It isn't like registering it for copyright protection.

[SeanHannifin]

This is a good question and I'd be interested in an answer as well...

My guess is it might depend on what exactly you hope to get out of joining.

I joined ASCAP earlier this year because I needed a CAE number for something. I was kind of in a hurry and at the time it looked like BMI needed some kind of proof that your work was going to be published or something, which I didn't have time for, whereas ASCAP seemed perfectly happy to take my $35 even if I hadn't written a single note. (I might've been mistaken, as I was in a hurry...)

Other than getting a CAE number, I don't really get (or need) anything out of ASCAP, especially since I don't make nearly enough $$$ for me to worry about my rights...

[wrayer]

Do you get performances of your music in halls that pay performing rights?


I am a position where some of my work may be performed on a local Classic Music station (WCLV). I am not sure that they pay royalty rights, but it's a question worth asking.

Thanks for the input. I have had a couple of responses from the composers guild that I am in and would post those if anyone was interested.

best,
Bill

[qccowboy]

I am a position where some of my work may be performed on a local Classic Music station (WCLV). I am not sure that they pay royalty rights, but it's a question worth asking.



I am not sure of the laws in the U.S., but in Canada, to get an on air license, you MUST pay for a performing rights license. In other words, if you have ANY form of media that will utilize music in any form (including advertisements), you are required to pay for a yearly SOCAN license.

Stores that play music - CDs or radio - for their customers are also required to have SOCAN licenses (you can see the little SOCAN sticker in the front window of stores that comply with the law).

Even the small music festival of which I am administrator pays for an event license for that single week. So if we perform any works by living, registered, composers, they would receive their royalty fee directly from SOCAN.

[germancomponist]

Here in Germany it is the "Gema". You have to pay a little money a year, but it is a very good thing.

Sometimes I get money from a record what was played in a radio station 2 years ago in another country, lets say in Belgum... But, the money comes. ;)

[rbowser-]

I am not sure of the laws in the U.S., but in Canada, to get an on air license, you MUST pay for a performing rights license. In other words, if you have ANY form of media that will utilize music in any form (including advertisements), you are required to pay for a yearly SOCAN license.

Stores that play music - CDs or radio - for their customers are also required to have SOCAN licenses (you can see the little SOCAN sticker in the front window of stores that comply with the law).

Even the small music festival of which I am administrator pays for an event license for that single week. So if we perform any works by living, registered, composers, they would receive their royalty fee directly from SOCAN.
This is also the way ASCAP works in The States.

Earlier this year I decided to join ASCAP, primarily to have that credential. I like the idea of having the organization associated with my name, and vice versa.

There was something incorrect on this thread:

"...whereas ASCAP seemed perfectly happy to take my $35 even if I hadn't written a single note..."

That actually is not the case. You pay the fee to have your application processed, but there's no guarantee that an applicant will be accepted. The one prerequisite which is crucial is that the applicant has had music performed in an ASCAP sanctioned venue.

I went through the process of applying because I knew that our local theatre where "Dorian" was first produced pays ASCAP a yearly fee in order to use any music in the ASCAP catalog for their productions. That was what qualified me for membership.

Randy B.

[reberclark]

I was with ASCAP a long time ago. When I started actually getting performances, mechanicals and sync licenses I switched to BMI Classical on the advice of my publisher who told me that BMI paid faster. It was tough to switch - I had to re-register all of my old material - but we worked it out.

I have no idea if BMI Classical "pays faster" or whatever but I have been very happy with the service. They actually pay twice a year and many people seem to report performances to them faithfully - so I get some money.

You can also submit programs (not from high school performances or below - but from pro or college/university performances and other professional venues) to get fees. Also there is a separate "world premiere" form which pays a bit more.

So...after years of NOT using a license service (all of my children's theatre scores went unlicensed and were potentionally a big wad o' cash! Alas!) BMI Classical has been a very nice addition money-wise - I just wish I had known how it worked sooner.

I'm sure ASCAP is just as advantageous. The people at BMI Classical are very helpful and friendly.

Anyhoo BMI Classical pays me fairly well and is worth it for me.

Contact: Ralph Jackson at rjackson@bmi.com or

BMI Classical Music Administration
320 West 57th Street
New York, NY 10019

EDIT: I've never had to pay BMI anything. Ever.

[SeanHannifin]

The one prerequisite which is crucial is that the applicant has had music performed in an ASCAP sanctioned venue.

That might be what they say, but I'm not sure how they'd actually check that... :confused: Maybe they do, I have no idea, but maybe they just say that to avoid unnecessary applicants. Anyway, they don't require you to provide any proof of it yourself...

And I used the word "seemed" so it is not incorrect; that is how it seemed :D

[rbowser-]

That might be what they say, but I'm not sure how they'd actually check that... :confused: Maybe they do, I have no idea, but maybe they just say that to avoid unnecessary applicants. Anyway, they don't require you to provide any proof of it yourself...

And I used the word "seemed" so it is not incorrect; that is how it seemed :D
Hi, Sean - Since you say you have no idea, I'll gladly inform you (again). :D:D:D

Using my application as an example, I listed Pentacle Theatre as the ASCAP affiliated venue where I'd had my music performed. It was easy for them to look in their records and confirm that the theatre does indeed have a license with ASCAP, and that my work was performed there.

You're not required to provide the proof because they need to look things up themselves. You provide the info, they'll verify it.

And all this is not just how it Seems, it's just Correct. ---more smileys:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Randy

[SeanHannifin]

It was easy for them to look in their records and confirm that the theatre does indeed have a license with ASCAP, and that my work was performed there.

But is there any proof they actually went through the trouble to do that? I have a tough time imagining them verifying the qualifications of all applicants. They say on their site:


To become an ASCAP writer member, you must have written or co-written a musical composition or a song that has been:


commercially recorded (CD, record, tape, etc.);
or, performed publicly in any venue licensable by ASCAP (club, live concert, symphonic concert or recital venue, college or university, etc.);
or, performed in any audio visual or electronic medium (film, television, radio, Internet, cable, pay-per-view, etc.);
or, published and available for sale or rental.

Would they really take the time to verify all those possibilities? Seems like quite a bit of work for them... (not to mention, self-published works qualify)

I think the qualifications are there because if you don't have one, ASCAP is useless to you. I doubt they'd reject your application though... it would be an interesting experiment for anyone who wants to waste $35...

I wonder how BMI deals with qualifications? Similarly? Or, because they are free, might they be more strict about it?

[rbowser-]

lol---Sean, it hadn't even occurred to me to suspect ASCAP of lying about how their application process works. Until I have reason to believe otherwise, I believe them when they explain that applicants need to meet some qualifications in order to become members. If you choose to think the way ASCAP operates is bogus, it's certainly you're right to think that.

Randy - ASCAP, SAG-AFTRA

[SeanHannifin]

it hadn't even occurred to me to suspect ASCAP of lying about how their application process works.

I'm not accusing them of lying; I wouldn't have joined if I thought so!

But they don't say anywhere in their application process that they're going to verify your qualifications, or that that's what the $35 is for. (They probably collect $35 so they don't have to verify your qualifications... then when you don't make any royalties, it's your loss and not theirs.)

And they don't say they won't take your $35 if you don't qualify; they say it is non-refundable.

That they didn't seem strict about verifying qualifications seems good to me, because it's less of a hassle for me, which is one of the main reasons I went with them. I certainly don't fault them for it.

[rbowser-]

Sean, I hardly ever use this word, but I do now - Whatever. :wow:

Thank you for this whimsical experience of doublespeak. There's no way of knowing what you really think about this topic since you say one thing, then deny saying it, you manage to say you believe two opposite things at once, and on it goes, a circular conversation that goes nowhere.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS everyone.

Randy B.

[AlanPerkins]

Hey Randy, it seems to me you are getting a little hot under the collar over nothing.

There is an alternative interpretation you don't appear to have considered: Self assessment.

The terms published here don't say anything about the method of validation, if any, so it seems there is no reason to accuse Sean of accusing them of lying.

Many tax systems work on the same principle - you are required to declare all income and not falsify any deductions - but you self-assess. THere is then an audit sampling process to verify.

What's going on around these parts lately?? It seems people are suddenly way too happy to assume the worst of others and start arguments!

It's little wonder the traffic has dropped off markedly.

[rbowser-]

Hello, Alan - Thanks for your post.

I've seemed "hot under the collar"--? I haven't felt that way, that's an unfortunate misperception. Chalk it up to the limitations of communicating via posts this way.

What I am is Weary of people not being honest about what they're saying. I didn't "accuse" Sean of accusing ASCAP of lying. I thought I was accurately describing how he thinks ASCAP operates. He said, for instance:

"...But is there any proof they actually went through the trouble to do that? I have a tough time imagining them verifying the qualifications of all applicants..."

How else can that be described, other than he's saying they are lying about actually investigating their applicant's qualifications. He was saying they only Claim to process applications. He was saying they lie about that. But he doesn't want to sound harsh, so then baldly denies what he just got through posting. That's so tiresome. He obviously has doubts about ASCAP's honesty concerning how they process applicants--OK, so he could just say that, as he did, and not throw up smoke trying to hide what he really thinks.

This thread was originally asking about ASCAP and BMI. Now there's been misinformation posted about ASCAP, by Sean, and now by you. As an ASCAP member, I've been trying to explain what the procedure is for becoming a member.

Some of what I'm going by is from emails with their office when I first was thinking about becoming a member. It was explained, in case I didn't already understand from their website, that not all writers automatically qualify. As in the bit Sean posted, there are prerequisites to meet, and it's not all that difficult for writers to qualify, but they would indeed turn someone down if the applicant hadn't "ever written a jot of music" or whatever it was Sean said in that earlier post.

I did no "assuming the worst" of Sean or anyone, Alan. I just >gasp!< dared to point out the contradictory things in his posts. He called it the way he sees it - but then backtracks, thinking that somehow his contradictions won't be noticed, all in the need to be seen as a Good Guy - or Something.

---what you're saying about "self assessment" doesn't make any sense to me in this topic, Alan. I'm sure it makes sense to you, but it doesn't to me.

Randy B. - later!----Much later.

[SeanHannifin]

He was saying they only Claim to process applications. He was saying they lie about that.

No, I wasn't saying that. Of course they process applications. That doesn't mean they verify that all qualifications are met for everyone, nor do they claim to on their site.

The tax analogy is good.

[germancomponist]

Here in Germany, I am sure the GEMA people do not control if you have written or have not written a song. When a song of mine will be sold from a company on cd or played in a radiostation, than for example the radiostation tells the Gema what songs they have played. The GEMA then checks on their lists and see, oops, Gunther told us that he wrote the song abc and this is Gunthers song abc, Nr. 1234567, and some month later I get some cents for it. :-)

The Gema controls not the music itself but regulates the rights, who has signed this composition with them, who will get money then... .

I think it is the same at BMI or ASCAP.

[rbowser-]

No, I wasn't saying that. Of course they process applications. That doesn't mean they verify that all qualifications are met for everyone, nor do they claim to on their site.

The tax analogy is good.
Sean, my friend, you're harder to pin down than a greased pig. OK, so you're saying that they're lying about going through the Veryifying process. I picked the wrong word. It's in your posts--You think they're dishonest. OK. Now You can be honest and stop this ridiculous attempt to squirm out of what you said.

Meanwhile, I trust ASCAP as I trust and think the best of everyone I meet and deal with, until such time as I'm shown that my trust is misplaced. Such a more pleasant, nicer way to live than being cynically suspicious.

Randy

[SeanHannifin]

OK, so you're saying that they're lying about going through the Veryifying process.

Where does ASCAP claim to go through a "Veryifying process"?

[sd cisco]

I joined BMI many years ago as I was getting mixed up with a shyster publisher/record producer in Toronto. It was his idea that I join, I think to give an air of legitimacy to the proceedings. I never received anything $$-wise from the publisher but I think I was paid something by BMI for a minor amount of airplay for the song. After that, at some point BMI transitioned into SOCAN. I did music for an environmental film and the producer/director sold the rights to Paramount Pictures, which in the context of the thing, was a crafty move. Paramount had the shorter (35 mins) version of the film on as the "short before the feature" in theaters all over the place, even drive-in theaters!! I was paid a lump sum up front by the filmmaker before we had any idea where the project would actually end up. Later, for a number of years, I would receive royalty cheques from SOCAN, they were in the low to mid 3 digits. You would see all the places they would poll for usage, like Peru, Romania, US, UK, etc., and I think they used a tiered "averaging" system to work out how much they paid you.Then, when I had my animations on CBC TV (I wrote the music for them and they were all wall-to-wall music), I received a one time license fee from CBC for each film and then I received royalties on a very good rate per second on TV from SOCAN, so that was OK. The one thing I can say about these performance rights organizations is that the more active your work is in the market place, the more you make and for sure the better they will treat you.
Best regards,
sd cisco

[reberclark]

The one thing I can say about these performance rights organizations is that the more active your work is in the market place, the more you make and for sure the better they will treat you.

That's true. I don't even get the BMI magazine unless I'm getting performances. Luckily things have been okay for awhile, but this business is a rollercoaster - not a merry-go-round (at least for me!) so whatever I receive is always a nice welcome surprise!

[Tom_Davis]

I am a position where some of my work may be performed on a local Classic Music station (WCLV). I am not sure that they pay royalty rights, but it's a question worth asking.

Thanks for the input. I have had a couple of responses from the composers guild that I am in and would post those if anyone was interested.

best,
Bill

I would be very interested in knowing the input from your composers' guild.

[wrayer]

I will not use names (don't have their permission) but here are some comments from composers in the Cleveland Composer Guild:

J's BMI numbers reflect what I've seen, and these are a
significant percentage increase over last year's, which is
encouraging given a bad economy.

2009 distribution
College chamber - $10.20 per minute
Chamber - $22.50 per minute

2008 distribution
College chamber = $8.00 per minute
Chamber= $16.00 per minute
College Band $13.00 per minute

Orchestral performances vary according to the level of orchestra -
College, Urban Community, Regional, Major.
These will be in the $40 to $70 per minute range.

The royalty statements are annual and are a full year in arrears in
terms of the performances you are getting paid for. The check
usually arrive at the end of August or in September. Radio and
International performances are separate quarterly checks. These are
about 6 - 9 months in arrears.

Regrettably, I only seem to get a royalty for about 30 to 40% of my
performances from BMI, because 1) some are overseas and that's
somewhat out of their control, 2) they do not license works on
College faculty recitals, student recitals and faculty or student
chamber recitals which is where a lot of the works get performed, 3)
they might not have received documentation, and 4) the performance
might not have been a licensed one. I don't know how all of this
compares with ASCAP. Perhaps someone else can share that info.
Also, if I've stated anything incorrectly about BMI I hope someone
will correct me, I'm just going from my own experience.

Otherwise, it's a no-brainer that you should belong to one of these
organizations, otherwise, even a moderately "successful" composer is
throwing away thousands of dollars.

BMI pays once a year. I got my check for 2007-8 in August. I then got
a check for about $64 immediately after for radio (first time ever;
BMI relies on random checks of station logs; you can't send them your
broadcast data.) Now, as for the season in question, it was unusually
busy, so the check was unusually big. I know it's horribly gauche to
parade your finances in front of others, but you need objective facts,
so I'm going to do that. Note that all the works are unpublished, so I
get both my own and the publisher share.

Sonata for flute and piano (Col. Chamber) Credits: 0010 $102.00
String quartet (Chamber Crefits: 0014 $315.00
Symphony in D ORCHESTRA Credits: 0024 $1104.00
Trio for violin, alto sax, pf Chamber Credits: 0010 $225.00

This is about half a month's day-gig salary for me, nothing to sneeze
at. I don't know how this compares to ASCAP; maybe some ASCAPer would be willing to drop financial trou so we'd have some figures to
compare.

No question as far as I am concerned. I have been a VERY happy member (I underscore MEMBER since ASCAP is member run as opposed to BMI which is run from the top down institutionally) of ASCAP since 1979!! LOVE it and feel well taken are of.

Those are three comments I recieved from fellow composers.

Best Regards,
Bill

[DKeenum]

I am a BMI member who is really interested in this topic.

[trimpe]

Where does ASCAP claim to go through a "Veryifying process"?

I don't know WHERE they claim it, but they most certainly do as I was denied the first time I applied, accepted the second. I didn't lie on the apps, apparently my first song didn't qualify.

[SeanHannifin]

I don't know WHERE they claim it, but they most certainly do as I was denied the first time I applied, accepted the second. I didn't lie on the apps, apparently my first song didn't qualify.

Very interesting, do you know why your song didn't qualify the first time?

Also, did they keep your $35?

[Jeff Turner]

I think the $35 goes to pay the person who does the verifying. )(~

JT

[rbowser-]

Hello gang, I see the topic continues about ASCAP and how to qualify for membership.

As far as my input goes, as I said earlier:

"Some of what I'm going by is from emails with their office when I first was thinking about becoming a member. It was explained (in the emails), in case I didn't already understand from their website, that not all writers automatically qualify."

As per Trimpe's experience, one has to have music which qualifies as per the list from ASCAP's site which Sean posted earlier.

Randy B.

[wrayer]

Well Randy, as the Cleve. Guild has pointed out and you as well, you need a venue that falls in the auspices of the royalty. If you play in your garage and don't pay roalty fees , you won't get any royalties. I will let all here know what happens after I apply.

Read earlier post.

Best regards,
Bill

[dudefromthebronx]

I have yet to join ASCAP or BMI, I'd join BMI without hesitation. ASCAP has a litany of lawsuits and members calling for the heads of the top brass. ASCAP also uses bully tactics on businesses that are not required by law to pay for a performance license. They'd force you to pay for a license to whistle any tune they license if they thought they could. ASCAP also bad-mouths BMI gratuitously, to the point where you can't help but to wonder their problem is.:|:

[reberclark]

In my experience BMI Classical makes a direct deposit into my account twice a year. Also, in my experience, as long as BMI Classical is provided with a program from College/University performances (and the venue is paying BMI/ASCAP fees) they pay on these as well. Most of my concert band stuff is played in high schools which do not pay, but the college and university performances do.

There seems to be alot of misinformation out there about both of these organizations.

[SeanHannifin]

ASCAP has a litany of lawsuits and members calling for the heads of the top brass. ASCAP also uses bully tactics on businesses that are not required by law to pay for a performance license. They'd force you to pay for a license to whistle any tune they license if they thought they could.

Like the recent ringtone debate?

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/10/court-rules-phones-ringing-public-dont-infringe-co

Also, for those of you who have collected royalties, do either ASCAP or BMI tell you how much money they've collected from your music, and then tell you how much your cut is? Other services like CD Baby let you know how much money your work has made total, which is nice. (ASCAP says 11.3% somewhere on their site, I think?)

While there may certainly be misinformation out there, I think there is also just a lot of genuine disagreements about how these organizations should operate. Which I guess isn't surprising considering what a hot topic copyright law is in general these days.

[reberclark]

for those of you who have collected royalties, do either ASCAP or BMI tell you how much money they've collected from your music, and then tell you how much your cut is?

It's in my membership agreement somewhere. Gaaah. Maybe I'll dig it out. My amounts are nothing real big so I just treat BMI Classical payments as "gravy." They are always a nice surprise.

[SeanHannifin]

If they make it easily available, it would be a way to compare ASCAP vs BMI ... I guess along with how much they actually charge for licenses ... they might be right around the same, but if you know you'll be collecting royalties it might be possible to figure out which one would make you just a bit more.

[wrayer]

If they make it easily available, it would be a way to compare ASCAP vs BMI ... I guess along with how much they actually charge for licenses ... they might be right around the same, but if you know you'll be collecting royalties it might be possible to figure out which one would make you just a bit more.

As I understand from my friends in the Cleveland Composers Guild, there is very little difference between the two as far as payout amounts. I believe BMI pays once a year and ASCAP pays twice yearly. I am not sure as to how much effort goes in on the composers end as far as reporting performances, but I think I will learn. I was just accepted as a new member of ASCAP. A new world for me!

Best regards,
Bill

[reberclark]

Bill, congratulations. I was wrong - BMI Classical only pays once a year! Sorry about that. I don't pay attention to it much. BUT as far as the composer's end of the deal goes - we submit programs with our performances circled. If it's a premiere there's a form to go along with it (these are for registered works) and more money is involved.

So...what I do is setup a "Google alert" for my name and the name of my pieces. When a performance announcement hits the web I get an email from Google. If it qualifies (college/univesity or professional performance, or in a "paying venue") then I contact the concert giver and ask for programs.

In most cases they are happy you made contact and are glad to send programs. I then send these on to BMI for credit. Warren Barker (anybody remember him? Concert band composer etc.? Pub. by Barnhouse I think?) used to put an invitation in the front of his scores to send him programs. I suppose that's another way to get 'em.

Most (in my experience) colleges and universities will report performances to BMI/ASCAP on their own, but I don't count on them. I've submitted many programs thru the Google alert thing.

Congrats again on ASCAP!

[wrayer]

reberclark - Thankyou and thankyou also for some insight. I recieved this post from a memebr of the Cleve. Comp. GHuild:

I am a BMI composer. I have been satisfied with almost everything. THere
is one thing though which I plan to find out more about sometime soon.
People from two different orchestras (a conductor and an exec. director)
have told me that the BMI yearly fees are outrageous and they do not plan
to pay them anymore. This does not make me happy!! But I need to do a
little more research about it since I don't know the facts myself. Have
any of you who are BMI composers had this experience?

M...

I thought this might add some fuel to the discussion.

Gary, if this is an inappropriate discussion, please let me know. I do think it comes under the realm of sampled music and where we go as forum members. That brings me to another question:

Does sampled music fall under the auspices of royalty if it is performed on a venue where it is used in live performances in a cancert hall?

A whole new 'hill of beans!"

Best
Bill

[SeanHannifin]

Does sampled music fall under the auspices of royalty if it is performed on a venue where it is used in live performances in a cancert hall?

If it's part of the program, I don't see why not. Although, I'm not sure if the $$$ works differently in that case...

I don't have orchestras playing my music, but there was a possibility that one of my pieces created with GPO was going to be background music on TV, and, if that did happen, I needed to be registered with a PRO so they could put it on their "cue sheet."

So, even if you're just using GPO, a PRO can be helpful.

Anyway, reberclark, I find it interesting that you're submitting programs yourself. I'm not sure if you (or anyone) knows, but I'm curious: Do you know how the colleges are paying for it if they are not also reporting their usage themselves? You said most do, but if one doesn't, do they get billed later or what?

EDIT: Oh, and congrats wrayer on joining ASCAP! :D Any particular reason you chose ASCAP over BMI?

[SeanHannifin]

reberclark - Thankyou and thankyou also for some insight. I recieved this post from a memebr of the Cleve. Comp. GHuild:

I am a BMI composer. I have been satisfied with almost everything. THere
is one thing though which I plan to find out more about sometime soon.
People from two different orchestras (a conductor and an exec. director)
have told me that the BMI yearly fees are outrageous and they do not plan
to pay them anymore. This does not make me happy!! But I need to do a
little more research about it since I don't know the facts myself. Have
any of you who are BMI composers had this experience?

I'd be interested in exactly how the orchestras plan to manage without paying BMI.

If I owned an orchestra, I imagine it might be cheaper (but less convenient) to make license/payment agreements directly with composers or publishers themselves. If they wished to be paid through BMI, we just say "no, thanks" and pick something else. It's not like there's a shortage of music out there.

Of course, if they plan to not pay BMI or make agreements with composers or publishers, I think they'd eventually be sued for copyright violation. (Unless they play all classical! :D )

[wrayer]

You pose interesting questions Sean. I don't know the answers, but I will try to find out, or at least get some more info. The ASCAP manual is long and tedious - 'geek-speak' in lawyereese!

Best,
Bill

[reberclark]

Anyway, reberclark, I find it interesting that you're submitting programs yourself. I'm not sure if you (or anyone) knows, but I'm curious: Do you know how the colleges are paying for it if they are not also reporting their usage themselves? You said most do, but if one doesn't, do they get billed later or what?

Sean, BMI Classical asks that we submit any programs we come across with the performance circled. I really do not know much about the rest of the process, but I believe it is any venue that charges fees (admissions) needs to pay ASCAP/BMI annual fees and out of this fund the composers are paid.

If a college/univ. doesn't pay ASCAP/BMI fees I don't know how ASCAP/BMI handles that. I just report the performance (via program) and hope the school/venue is on BMIs books. What happens after that I have no idea.

There is a great book entitled This Business of Music by Shemel and Krasilovsky that probably answers most of these questions. It was difficult for me to maintain interest in it so I've only skimmed it but it may be worth picking up. It used to be standard text in many Music Business courses. I don't know if it's still in print or outdated by now.

[gardibolt]

When I inquired with ASCAP on behalf my Dutch partner on the Unheard Beethoven project, they said that he didn't qualify as he was not an American citizen or resident. So we will go BMI.