My 'GigaStrings' (GOS) demos

[Simon Ravn]

OK since the library has been released, I decided to put up some of the things I\'ve been doing while betatesting the library. I am not saying that this is all that can be done with GOS or that this is all that _I_ can do with GOS - I am sure better composers could get better stuff out of them.
Also please note that these demos use the first versions of the violins, basses and celli, only the violas are close to the final product. But still it will give you a picture of how it sounds and works. Go to http://www.melomaniac.dk (\"http://www.melomaniac.dk\") and go into the MP3 section! Have fun http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif



[This message has been edited by Simon Ravn (edited 09-02-2001).]

[RICARDO BOTTICELLI]

nice music simon.the fast strings really works.
i\'ll buy gigastrings!!!!!!
soon as i can.
thanx for these helpfull demos

[Tokyo Joe]

In a word: amazing. Not only is the sound of the GO strings amazing, so is your writing and orchestral skills. Great job.

[El-Sim]

OOKK!!!-
Simon-
Now this is what I call a good demo.

Can u tell me what brass, wind and perc sounds you used as well-
and how many different articulations and memory will loading the string stuff take up?

Again-
nicely done

El-Sim

[KingIdiot]

Back when Simon was throwing the Barber demo together I asked to do a little EQ to one of his roughs, to see if I could match the recording Donnie threw online a while ago.
http://www.musicyouneed.com/yup/barberagain.mp3 (\"http://www.musicyouneed.com/yup/barberagain.mp3\")

since we\'re all sharing our experiences with the library, why not this s well http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Thomas_J]

Excellent work Simon! These excerpts certainly put GoS to good use. I like the sound of the fast strings work. Especially the fact that you can do good up/down bowstroke simulations (at 1:12 in Going In!).

Thomas

[EternalBlue]

I must admit I was guarded given all the hype and what seemed to be overly-glowing comments with respect to GOS. Your demo and the GOS strings quality sound superb and definitely do show what\'s possible. Kudos.

[Simon Ravn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KingIdiot:
Back when Simon was throwing the Barber demo together I asked to do a little EQ to one of his roughs, to see if I could match the recording Donnie threw online a while ago.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny, I can hear your \'version\' of it is newer than my own, since it has the celli playing the melody too, which I forgot in the first place. I never recorded the new version with reverb I think http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[donnie]

Simon,

Very cool stuff! The strings sounds excellent!

Donnie

[esperlad]

The music is very good. I liked the war spoof. What brass did you use?

[MikeGraybill]

Damn nice, indeed. Very well then... Time to snag a loan through my school. Thank you Simon, that\'s what I was waiting for.

[El-Sim]

Thanks Simon-

appreciate the info-

EL-SIM

[Simon Ravn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by El-Sim:

Can u tell me what brass, wind and perc sounds you used as well-
and how many different articulations and memory will loading the string stuff take up?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For the \'Sugary\' piece I used brass (mainly some soft FH\'s and trombones) from AO. Woodwinds from AO and Miroslav.
The memory use is clocking in at 42% on my 1GB equipped machine. I use a total of 50 patches (some instruments, like the perc. from UOP takes up several slots, so the real number of patches is probably closer to 30). 13 patches from GOS all in all. And as you can probably hear, I only use legato patches, apart from in the end where there are some marcato and staccato violins as well as spiccato violas doubling those.

In \'Going In\' brass is mostly from Quantum Leap Brass, mixed with AO I think. Woodwinds from AO and Miroslav. Here the memory reads 48% used. I use 8 MIDI channels for all the short bowings (violins, violas, celli and basses). Then I use some tremolo patches and a few legato patches as well as one grand detache violin patch at around 1:20 in this piece. In the endpart, I use an All Violins patch.

All percussion is from Ultimate Orchestral Percussion, except some gongs from Miroslav and timpani from Ultimate Timpani.

[jubal]

Simon,

As always, very good. I was hoping you would release your demos once the library was released. Perhaps you can address how MaestroTools was a benefit in the demos you have on your site in terms of \'time saving\' and performance issues.

[IOComposer]

Great work, Simon. I\'ve been messing with the library on a mix I\'m doing and I\'m totally blown away how realistic it sounds. I don\'t have my copy yet, but I\'m tracking the mailman now http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif
-J

[Simon Ravn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jubal:
Simon,

As always, very good. I was hoping you would release your demos once the library was released. Perhaps you can address how MaestroTools was a benefit in the demos you have on your site in terms of \'time saving\' and performance issues.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thanks. I didn\'t use MaestroTools a lot for the \'Sugary\' piece, I am not sure how far the library was in terms of the implementation of MT at that point. I use it all over on \'Going In\' because it automates the up/down strokes in all the fast parts. I think I used it for the legato part in the end too but I\'m not sure, the most significant use of MT for me is automating the up/down bowing, more than the legato functions. Of course it saved me a lot of time since I didn\'t have to manually move every 2nd note 3 octaves up http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[Jamieh]

Excellent work! Thanks Simon!

I agree with Thomas that the up/down bowing at 1:12 of \"Going In!\" is astounding. The string playing sounds EXACTLY like the very beginning of \"Fugue for Motorcycle and Orchestra\" from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Very convincing.

Sugary Warfare is a really pretty piece, regardless of whether is was supposed to be a joke on Zimmer. The lushness of the strings is really nice.

[KingIdiot]

you oughtta hear all the John Williams stuff that can be done with the fast/short attacks http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

There were a couple of short roughs that popped up during the beta cycle that were pretty impressive http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Jamieh]

King, can you do the really fast opening to \"The Mission\" (NBC News theme)? If you can do that, it is the king of string libraries.

I guess I\'ll find out myself when my copy gets here, hopefully later this week. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[KingIdiot]

hmm.. I\'ll have to try it to make sure http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

To be honest tho with the amount of articulations and varitions I wouldn\'t see why not, and why it wouldn\'t sound great.

there are some Violin samples that really DIG in I love them http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

I\'m gonna stop talking aout this damn thing and make some msuic with it now http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Tokyo Joe]

KingIdiot, with 8,500 samples and 500 patches the library seems very comprehensive. What\'s the printed documentation like? I presume the copy you recieved is close to the final manual?

Also, I was so impressed by Simon Ravn\'s
demo\'s that I\'ve decided to take the plunge and order GOS tomorrow!

[KingIdiot]

I\'ll leave the manual as a surprise. but its suffice to say taht It is the most comprehensive manual You\'ll ever see for a Sample Library.

The first time I saw the first revision I could not stop smiling. It alone makes you realise that this library is a standout and not jsut a project someone threw together.

It is just as comperhensive as the library itself.

As well, it helps you undersand the lbrariy itself, and what Gary\'s concept was.

Its a good read.... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

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Really...I am an Idiot

[Haydn]

The documentation is awesome - no other library has anything like it. The original manual was about 80 pages. I heard the release version is about twice the size.

Check out the following link for GOS doing John Williams: http://members.home.net/haydn12 (\"http://members.home.net/haydn12\")

This includes quite a few articulations including the awesome pizzicato\'s. The violins are still from the 1st beta.

[Simon Ravn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jamieh:
[B]Excellent work! Thanks Simon!

I agree with Thomas that the up/down bowing at 1:12 of \"Going In!\" is astounding. The string playing sounds EXACTLY like the very beginning of \"Fugue for Motorcycle and Orchestra\" from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Very convincing.

B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah yes - THAT is what I stole... Thanks http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif)) hehe, I had a feeling I had heard this before and that it was by JW but I never really thought about where it could be from. Great album, great cue btw.

[SCARBEE]

You are cool, Simon... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/cool.gif

Scarbee

[Thomas_J]

_Very_ impressive stuff Haydn!

See, these are the kind of demos that sell copies.

Gary is lucky to have both you and Simon on his beta-tester list.

I\'m demo hungry now, anyone else have some good stuff to share? (using GoS)

Thomas

[ursatz]

I have a small demo at http://briefcase.yahoo.com/ursatz (\"http://briefcase.yahoo.com/ursatz\") (in the music folder) - it\'s a bit from the beginning of Tchaikovsky\'s 4th Symphony, 3rd movement. All G.O.S. It\'ll give you a little idea of what you can do with the pizzicato.

I\'m working on other things as well, but they\'ll be along later.

[Haydn]

Thomas_J,

Glad you enjoyed the demo. I\'m sure there will be many things posted soon. I\'ve got a few more pieces just waiting to add the 2nd Violins including some Ravel using Sourdine, Harmonics and a few other cool sounds only found in GOS.

[Damian Smith]

A couple of questions. How much hard drive space and memory does it take up? Also, are there any people using the strings for other styles of music other than orchestral and film music?

[mschiff]

Simon,

Your demos are awesome. If the GOS library in beta was that good, the release version must be fabulous.

How much tweaking is involved in getting a good sound? Do you have to use different string patches for each part, or can you pick one legato string sound and use it for all legato parts, for instance?

How do you sequence your music? With what software, and do you play the parts, or enter them note by note?

-- Martin http://www.mp3.com/starbirth (\"http://www.mp3.com/starbirth\")

[Jamieh]

Damion, the library comes on 16 CD\'s, so I\'m assuming that it takes up around 11-12 GB or so if you install all of the instruments.

[Simon Ravn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mschiff:
Simon,


How much tweaking is involved in getting a good sound? Do you have to use different string patches for each part, or can you pick one legato string sound and use it for all legato parts, for instance?

How do you sequence your music? With what software, and do you play the parts, or enter them note by note?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always use different string patches - afterall a violin sounds like a violin and not a cello - a cello not like a viola etc. I play one line at a time, I think it is more realistic than playing actual 3-4 note chords with a string section. Afterall there are rarely 60 violins in an orchestra. I might have two voices playing in the same MIDI channel though, for example octave doubling of violins.

There IS an \'all string sections\' patch, but of course it doesnt give you the same opporunities as playing each instrument at a time. There\'s quite some tweaking involved in doing this, especially the \'Sugary\' piece - but nothing new there, there has always been a lot of \'programming\' involved with making strings expressive - the results with GOS are just better and you have more timbres and articulations to choose from. I use Cubase for sequencing.

[Thomas_J]

Ursatz, that\'s a great rendering of Tchaikovsky\'s 4th, 3rd mvmnt. I fell in love with that Scherzo when I first heard it some three or four years ago. Your mockup was a delightful listen, even though it\'s a little too up close IMO. I think it would sound better if you pushed everything back in the hall somewhat. I like the reverb http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Even though the tail seems to be somewhat long, I\'ve found that optimal tails for classical pieces are around 2.2-2.8s. This is HIGHLY individual though. Anyway, great work!

A few questions if you don\'t mind. Are there seperate pizzicato .gig\'s for first and second violins? (I haven\'t read the score but I think remember something like the second violins are answering the first violins with accented plucking?) How many velocity layers are there? I hear some notes retriggered in your piece which unfortunately gives it away somewhat. Anyway the more demos I hear of this GoS library, the more convinced I get.


Haydn, I want to ask you what libraries you used for your Star Wars piece. Most of it is excellent, but the woodwinds seem to be the biggest weakness. The tuba sounds incredible and so does the trombones in the beginning and the muted one later in the piece. Could you kindly list the samples used?

TIA,
Thomas

[ursatz]

Thomas,
Glad you liked it, I threw it together in a couple of afternoons (the second one just to re-record and tweak it with revised versions of some of the beta gigs). The reverb is just the lowly SBLive! And yes, I\'d definitely move the strings back if I were to do the whole movement.

For your questions about the gigs, keep in mind that I\'m answering based on the last beta version, which may be different from the released version (though I\'d be very surprised if there were any significant differences). Yes, there are separate gigs for 1st and 2nd violin, including separate pizz. The pizz instruments have 4 velocity layers. Here\'s the pizz instrument list for 1st violins:

1st Violin pizz tight
1st Violin pizz tight w/Bartok
1st Violin pizz loose
1st Violin pizz loose w/Bartok
1st Violin pizz tight/loose ALT 88
1st Violin pizz tight/loose w/Bartok ALT 88
1st Violin pizz tight/loose X-Fade
1st Violin pizz tight/loose w/Bartok X-Fade

The \"Bartok\" patches have a velocity layer (triggered at very high velocities) where the string snaps against the fingerboard. The \"tight\" patches have a very distinct attack; the \"loose\" patches have a more diffused attack. The ALT patches let you switch between tight and loose by changing octaves. The X-Fade patches let you crossfade between tight and loose using the mod wheel. All of these patches let you use CC81 to control release and decay time. (BTW, the col legno patches give you most of the same capabilities, except of course there\'s no such thing as a \"Bartok col legno.\" You do get a col legno ricochet patch, though.)

If I were to do a more thorough job on this piece, I\'d make much heavier use of the tight/loose crossfade - I think that would alleviate most of the retriggering that you\'re hearing.

One of the great pleasures of beta-ing this library was the way Gary and Tom kept surprising us by going beyond what we expected. Early on, I complained that a lot of the bass pizz notes were way too \"loose,\" and I also felt that the looseness of individual notes on many other instruments would be problematic - it would create more realism in some contexts, but in exposed passages it would be a dead giveaway. I would have been happy if the excessively \"loose\" notes had just been tightened up a bit. They did tighten up the loosest notes, but in addition, not only did they give us a *choice* of tight or loose, they also gave us the ability to crossfade between them.

And all this just for pizzicato!

[mschiff]

Simon,

I can see now that I was very unclear with my question. What I should have said, was do you use a single violin patch for all legato violins, a single cello patch for all legato cellos, etc, and do you program separate parts for violin 1 and 2, using a section patch, or a solo patch? In other words, how many parts would you program for a violin section playing a legato part (or pizz or marcato) and would you use solo patches or section patches?

-- Martin

[Simon Ravn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mschiff:
Simon,

I can see now that I was very unclear with my question. What I should have said, was do you use a single violin patch for all legato violins, a single cello patch for all legato cellos, etc, and do you program separate parts for violin 1 and 2, using a section patch, or a solo patch? In other words, how many parts would you program for a violin section playing a legato part (or pizz or marcato) and would you use solo patches or section patches?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do separate 1st and 2nd violin lines yes, but I also \'cheat\', especially in the \"Sugary\" piece - I use both sordino and regular violins for example, and I have the violins playing the cello part too some of the way. So I probably have 5 1st violin parts at the same time, which is not realistic but who cares if the sound is right.

[Haydn]

Thomas_J,

The tuba is modified Tuba God patch in QLB. The brass is a mixture of AO, QLB and Xsample. I like to mix different patches from each library and detune them a bit which helps fatten up the sound.

This piece really brings out the woodwinds which makes it hard to hide the shortcomings of todays libraries. We really need more control over timbre in woodwinds. Unfortunately, cross fading doesn\'t cut it. I think this was the first piece I used Dan Dean Solo Woodwinds on, so I was just learning what it could do. I still mix up the woodwinds with Xsample and some AO instruments. Woodwinds still have a tendency to have a sound that is a cross between an organ and synthesizer. I have yet to hear a demo where the woodwinds sound like the real deal.

Two things I think that would help woodwinds and brass is:
1) a way to morph between layers and articulations
2) a way to randomly alter tuning - no instrument stays perfectly in tune.

The percussion is UOP plus a couple sounds from my Roland XP30.

[Craig_L]

Nice work Simon. I\'ve done an mp3 on the same piece using a different string library for comparison. If anyone is interested I could post it with the midi file - maybe others may want to try the same midi file to compary different libraries. I certainly would find this very helpful in upgrading my library. My only problem, I don\'t know how to upload onto a site so people can access. If anyone is interested or can help, let me know.

[Craig_L]

I\'ve posted an mp3 of the same Tchaikovsky pizzi piece with a different string library for comparison with the Garrison Strings if anyone is interested. Also posted the midi file. You can find it on http:/briefcase.yahoo.com/duoartc
in the music folder. Maybe people could compare libraries using the same midi file - I would be interested anyway.

[nycbhh]

Simon, I wanted a friend to listen to your wonderful demos last night and tried to access them through www.melomaniac.dk (\"http://www.melomaniac.dk\") and tried again today and got no response from your webpage server. Is this a temporary glitch, or are your MP3s no longer available? (Say it isn\'t so!)

Brad

[Simon Ravn]

Yes I am aware of the problems with my page. It has been down for 2-3 weeks now actually, because of some server re-allocation going on. I can\'t say specifically when it will be up again, but if you give me your email I can mail the demos to you.

[nycbhh]

Thanks, Simon, that would be great! My email is brad.howellhoughton@verizon.net

Brad

[Radu Lupu]

Hi Simon,

I would like to hear your demos too... My email address is mlachance72@sympatico.ca.

Thank you very much!

[Timo Heil]

Could you Simon (or someone else who already received the demos) mail them to me too, please. email: timo.heil@gmx.net

thanks
-timo-

[JoE]

Simon, I\'d love to have a copy of your demos,
too. If possible, please send them to
ernstj@in.tum.de

Thanks,
Jens

[SyQuEsT]

Simon,

I want listen your demos ...

sonophile@videotron.ca

Why not find a free ftp or web site ?

Mathieu Laprise

[Simon Ravn]

You dont get anything for free in this world without a catch... Banner ads, whatever... so, I prefer my own site where I have unlimited space because I have a friend who can host it.

[alDigi]

Me 2, please.
schaq8@aol.com
http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif

[88]

Simon,

I\'d like to hear your demos as well. Your a trooper if you are really emailing this to everyone that asks. Thanks!
dav0616@attglobal.net