Gary Garritan Orchestral Strings - Comments?

[Munsie]

So, with all the discussion, hype, etc.. I was wondering if anyone actually bought this package and if so, let\'s here some comments! (From someone else other than beta testers..) http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[IOComposer]

I do not have it yet, but I\'ve heard it first hand. It is definitely the real deal as far as strings go. I\'ve never heard it\'s equal in a sample library (except for maybe Donnie and Sean\'s new perc library http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif. The sound quality is staggering and the expressive potential will rival many real orchestras. This is the kind of library that if you did not know before hand that it wasn\'t real, you wouldn\'t question it.
-J

[Damon]

After checking the Gigastrings site every day for a month now, I turned into a kid on Christmas Day when I saw the \"Now Shipping!\" advertisement on this forum yesterday! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif
I\'ve ordered mine as well and can\'t wait to get this great library.
Finally fantastic strings that are not tuned to A-443!! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif



[This message has been edited by Damon (edited 09-01-2001).]

[mahlon]

Is it shipping? Where did you see the notice?

Thanks,
Mahlon

[mahlon]

Nevermind. If it was a snake it would\'ve bit me.

Duh,
Mahlon

[Tom Hopkins]

Endicott,

I\'m not quite sure what your criticism is here. Are you implying that these are identical files? They are not (and obviously not when you look at them in an editor). They are precisely what we claim them to be. One is a real crescendo-diminuendo recorded at the sampling session and the other is simulated using a 4 velocity split crossfade sustain instrument using the mod wheel to control the dynamics.

Or perhaps you are saying that the EXP simulation is not close enough to the real recorded crescendo-diminuendo to be convincing. Sounds pretty close to me but that\'s up to each listener to decide.

Or maybe you\'re saying that such comparisons aren\'t useful or appropriate. Hmmm.

Or maybe I have completely missed your point.

[Endicott]

..

[This message has been edited by Endicott (edited 09-08-2001).]

[MikeGraybill]

I performed the test you suggested. From what I saw (and heard) I can understand how you\'d come to your conclusion. Looking at the two wavs side by side (reg. the jpg you uploaded) at a 1:64 ratio, what I saw was for the most part nothing more than matched-beat vibrato. To really analyze what you are refering to, I had to look much closer. The transients had a few similarities that struck me as a bit coincidental, but on the whole, it is quite possible for those instances to occur at that infrequent a rate if one is recording the same player, instrument, hall, mic placement, etc. I get what you\'re saying, but it\'s still a bit of a stretch.

I made it a point not to respond to anything you\'ve said so far, for fear of getting side-tracked from my intentions within this forum, but this just bothered me too much. We\'re hearing how good the library is now, and that begs the question, \"Why on earth would the creators feel the need to fake something like this?\" The likelihood strikes me as extremely low. I guess I just don\'t understand what motivated you to waste time trying to find something like this, and discovering a VERY small coincidence, blow it out of proportion.

I know exactly what you are talking about. You\'re wrong. I\'ve never had a problem with people being wrong about something. We all make mistakes, and I\'ve made some doozies, but while I can easily tolerate inacurracy (even a little conspiracy theory now and again), I cannot abide mean, spiteful people. My suggestion to you is to zoom in a little more than a 1:64 ratio, and focus only on the transient peaks. I think you\'ll find that while it is a little coincidental in places, your point doesn\'t really hold water, and was just a downright mean thing to accuse those hard-working people of. I\'m going back to my usual mostly lurker status, and continue to try to find more useful ideas on this forum. Please stop interupting the good threads with this kind of stuff.

Just my 2 cents, and I\'m sorry for perpetuating all of this with another post. It won\'t happen again. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

-Mike-

[Endicott]

..

[This message has been edited by Endicott (edited 09-08-2001).]

[Joris de Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Endicott:
Tom, please check the \"Legato\" thread. I´d suggest we´d choose to stay there, although here it would be more appropiate.
Endicott<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Endicott, be more obvious about the point you\'re trying to make, instead of staying deliberately vague and then insult other people\'s intelligence when they don\'t get what you\'re on about. (referring to the legato thread)
From my viewpoint, the waveforms you captured display exactly the thing you would want from a library; phrasing as close to a real recorded instrument as you could get.
Secondly, if you really want to be clever and start making assumptions about sampled material, a simple amplitude waveform display at such a ratio is not going to hack it. I could easily create two waveforms that from an amplitude point of view look exactly the same, but from a sound (read spectral) viewpoint sound completely different.
If you want to do an accurate comparison, show people a high resolution FFT alongside with the amplitude.
Then again, let\'s just not bother; nobody is forcing you to buy garritan\'s strings, and from what I\'ve heard and read, it is the real deal. If you disagree or think they\'re trying to con you, than simply *don\'t* buy their product.

Regards,

Joris

[marcel lejeune]

More forumites said that they are able to reproduce the peaks Endicott showed in the images. I tried to reproduce them too, but I did not succeed. So please tell me which tool you would use for this. I do not know a tool where I can draw such long enveloppes, so many q-points, such fine and random curves. And drawing une enveloppe will not help too much, because more zones where the waves are not centered are visible, like the same DC component appears in both waves exactly the same. Drawing the enveloppe will produce symetrical waves. That means, you must add some continuous DC component. Please, help me. Which tool is able to simulate an enveloppe for the DC component?
Thank you in advance,
Lejeune

[Joris de Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by marcel lejeune:
More forumites said that they are able to reproduce the peaks Endicott showed in the images. I tried to reproduce them too, but I did not succeed. So please tell me which tool you would use for this. I do not know a tool where I can draw such long enveloppes, so many q-points, such fine and random curves. And drawing une enveloppe will not help too much, because more zones where the waves are not centered are visible, like the same DC component appears in both waves exactly the same. Drawing the enveloppe will produce symetrical waves. That means, you must add some continuous DC component. Please, help me. Which tool is able to simulate an enveloppe for the DC component?
Thank you in advance,
Lejeune<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lejeune, I was speaking in general about generating two amplitude waveforms that look similar but sound different, not specifically about endicotts examples.
My guess is something like reactor would be able to do that.

Regards,

Joris

[marcel lejeune]

M.de Man, I´m sorry, but you said it would be easy. Now I see you changed your mind. Now you say that you only can guess. Can you tell me how can I tweak, let us say, 2 seconds of a 1 KHz sine wave, to look like m. Endicot´s image? Can Reactor really introduce a variable DC offset, along with a simulated enveloppe? Please help me.
Thanks in advance.
Lejeune

[Robert Kral]

i know you didn\'t want to hear from Beta testers, but.......

Believe me, there is NO reason why the GOS producers would have \"faked\" the comparison waves. When you have this library in your posession, it speaks for itself. This library is enormous both in terms of size AND quality.

There simply hasn\'t been a string library ever presented that is so complete: absolutely jammed full of different articulations and patches set up for an incredible array of different styles.

OK I was a beta tester but there is no point me saying and \"hyping\" this product unless it isn\'t true. Time and time again libraries bill themselves as \"raising the standard\" or \"sets a new standard\". This one is the real deal. There really hasn\'t been anything like this in the past.

Until you\'ve seen and heard the library for yourself, you can\'t begin to imagine the enormity of this library.

Robert Kral

[marcel lejeune]

In between, I have asked 3 Reactor users. One of them is the person who rewiewed the Reactor here. They all said Reactor cannot simulate a variable DC component like the one in m. Endicot´s images. They all said the only way one could make it is to use the pencil, draw the DC enveloppe as a new file and mix it to the original wave. But it would take months of work until the DC jumps and the amplitude jumps will corelate so precisely like m. Endicot´s images. For all 3 persons, the Garritan demo was clearly falsified. They said that something was added to the second sound, but it could not hide completely the common wave, present in both.One of the 3 persons said that he thinks that the second sound was equalized in a different way, to hide the truth. He said the second sound looks like the relationship between bass and middle frequencies has been modified, for the common component.
I am no potential customer for this library. I am not interested to hear that this library is good or bad. I am only trying to find out if the demo was falsified or not. I am not coming here for my own fun, but because I have been asked to write a report about this.
Lejeune

[marcel lejeune]

To my surprise, lots of people told me that they cannot access the Garritan demo site anymore at this moment. ( www.gigastrings.com/mp3.htm (\"http://www.gigastrings.com/mp3.htm\") ). They think the site is beeing modified right now. I will have to mention this in my report as well, and I will have to provide the original demo too, in case it was removed.
Lejeune

[Simon Ravn]

That is not the correct link. The site has changed.... And oh... WTF is this. Find out if the demo was falsified... are you Endicott with a new name??? The demo is NOT false, but you thinking so, as Tom mentioned, should maybe just be considered a compliment to the quality of the library....



[This message has been edited by Simon Ravn (edited 09-08-2001).]

[Chadwick]

PLEAAAASE don\'t start this crap again.

I hate wasting my time opening up these threads only to find the same old arguments I thought had been staked to death already.

Let it go!

[MM]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Simon Ravn:
[are you Endicott with a new name???

I think this is the case as both ISPs are the same & \"marcel\" has arrived just as \"endicott\" disappeared...coincidence???

MM

[This message has been edited by MM (edited 09-08-2001).]

[Endicott]

I´ve been informed about this.
I have deleted every bit of message I ever sent to this forum. I know I did a favor to most of you.
Please return me the favor and cease talking about me. Simply forget that I ever was here.
If someone knows how to de-register, please inform me and I´ll do it immediately. Or - can´t the admin simply ban me? Ban me by name, by nick, by ISP?
Endicott

[This message has been edited by Endicott (edited 09-08-2001).]

[Simon Ravn]

Who informed you - Marcel?

[nicholash]

Hi Endicott,

You say: \"I have deleted every bit of message I ever sent to this forum.\"

I think you\'ve missed one!

[MidiDimwit]

Laughing!

[Endicott]

I guess I was fair enough to offer you this. But you´re not fair. You still keep talking to me, you little worms. So you want war, you´ll have it.

[MidiDimwit]

I think it\'s time for a group hug http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[nicholash]

Good idea, MidiDimwit. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/cool.gif

[donnie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Endicott:
I guess I was fair enough to offer you this. But you´re not fair. You still keep talking to me, you little worms. So you want war, you´ll have it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My how our IP addresses change so much! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Donnie

[tomhartman]

Simon, regarding your demo, do you mind saying what piano you used in the \"Pearl Harbor-esque\" slow piece? Sounded nice....and excellent work by the way.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by marcel lejeune:
For all 3 persons, the Garritan demo was clearly falsified. They said that something was added to the second sound, but it could not hide completely the common wave, present in both.One of the 3 persons said that he thinks that the second sound was equalized in a different way, to hide the truth. He said the second sound looks like the relationship between bass and middle frequencies has been modified, for the common component.
I am no potential customer for this library. I am not interested to hear that this library is good or bad. I am only trying to find out if the demo was falsified or not. I am not coming here for my own fun, but because I have been asked to write a report about this.
Lejeune <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


You were asked to investigate and write a report? By whom? The sample police? Perhaps there are some people who are naive enough to buy this, but not me. Your story doesn\'t add up.

To suggest that Gary Garritan has anything to gain by falsifying examples is simply ludicrous. I met Gary some time ago, and have enjoyed many stimulating conversations with him. He is about as straighforward a person as you will meet anywhere, and is dedicated 100% to his art. He is not the kind of individual to play games. He is also generous in word and deed, and I have never heard him say an unkind thing about anyone or anything.

I am truly amazed at this lame attack on his credibility. What an empty life one must have to engage in this sort of thing.

[Robert Kral]

Endicott,

WHY should we NOT talk about you. WHY should you be forgotten?

Don\'t answer that by the way, you\'d be breaking your own promise. Unless, of course, you\'d lke to say that you are rejoining the forum.

Come to think of it, there\'s no need for that. You already HAVE rejoined the Forum.

So, Endicott, why should we NOT mention you, especially since you are part of the Forum?